Georgetown - Lehigh 11/6/24 Discussion

[wilnow]

Yes they can. We loose that game with past 4 year teams

[sweetness]

Sorber is so impressive for a freshman - that is my first and most overriding take. Huge addition to the program. I also saw enough from Mack and Peavy to be excited about them too. And the other newcomers all showed flashes to various degrees.

Still need to clean things up on the defensive end.

[DFW HOYA]

Nov 6, 2024 21:14:57 GMT -5 thedragon said:

Positives.

Epps was way more efficient on offense and started to take over more during "winning time"

Obvious that lots of talented pieces to work with. Now have to find the right fits.

Sorber and Julius looked the part.

Peavy is better than advertised offensively.

Burks athleticism and size combination is tantalizing.

Negatives

Mack had a realtively poor game overall (although better PG offensive play in 2nd half). Worried his size will be a major issue defensive against bigger high major guards.

Fielder is potentially going to struggle to find a role. Even when he played in 2nd half they played Sorber at the 4 spot. Once Julius is fully conditioned and the more Sorber gets comfortable at the 4, along with Burks' playing I could see his minutes drying up quick. Hopefully when we play high major teams with more size he can find his sea legs.

Defense was poor. Too many easy buckets at rim. Showed some flashes on possessions and the rim protection will be better but need improvement on that end quick.

All good points. Three more:

1. Halaifonua looked promising in limited action, Burks and Curtis Williams had moments but where they fit is too early to tell. Fielder still lacks confidence.

2. The shot selection was concentrated in four players: 32 of the 37 shots after halftime. Oppponents will key on this.

3. Nine may be as far as Cooley goes on the bench, which doesn't help McKenna or Mulready.

All that said, this was a Patriot League team for an opponent. More learning to follow.

[drquigley]

The talent is much improved which means Cooley has no excuses if they can't get 7-8 BE wins this year. Lehigh showed what a well coached, limited talent team can accomplish if the players stay 3+ years. At times tonight it was men against boys.

[thedragon]

Seemingly no post game presser available. Typical.

[aleutianhoya]

A lot more options this year offensively, which will help. We can go big, we can go smaller. Lots of somewhat interchangeable parts. I really liked the inverted post actions with Peavy. And we seemed a lot more purposeful and crisp in terms of what we were trying to do.

The defense was....poor. We were slow to close out early and then overcompensated (presumably after Cooley lit into them) by closing out too hard and getting blown by. Peavy is an excellent individual defender, which always helps. If we play a well built big, we may struggle a bit. But lots of skilled size.

I do worry about our size at the one and two when together. That's a first world problem I suppose.

[jwp91]

Just finished watching the game. I think some of you are being hyper-critical.

We ran an offense for the entire game.

There was no hero ball.

We showed we had multiple weapons.

Peavy is going to cause problems both offensively and defensively for our opponents. He is a huge upgrade over Styles.

We are far more talented than last year.

Sorber will be a stud. Same with Julius. Burks will have a valuable role too.

Epps found ways to assert himself within our offense. He was very efficient.

We are far longer than last year.

We were +16 rebounding.

We have depth at big.

We had rim protection.

We caused turnovers.

For our first game of the year in early November, it was a rousing success.

[bluegray79]

What I saw in the Lehigh game tonight:
- the very first game of a team that, except for 3 players, didn't know each other 5 months ago
- the potential starting five for the year (Epps, Mackey, Fielder, Peavey, Burks)
- real-time adjustments -- Lehigh hot shooting (5/7) from behind the arc & their best player in double digits pretty much shut down the rest of the game
- pushing it in transition - defensive rebound or turnover and it was off to the races 70-80% of the time
- decent ball movement overall - not great every time but there was some crispness and urgency to the way they moved the ball most of the game
- Cooley trying a few different combinations - big front court - and different looks on D - zone, man-to-man
- inability to shake Lehigh until the 5:00 mark of the second half. We all wanted a decisive, reaffirming win, but this wasn't that. Not worried - it's game 1.
Will this group grow and improve over the course of the season? That's one thing I'll be looking for.
- impressive play both ends of the floor from Sorber, Peavey, & Epps. Solid overall on D from Burks C. Williams.
- Mack showed some defensive cred and sparks of bucket getter and true PG decisions
- haven't seen defensive stats, but we had spurts where we defended well and some where Lehigh found weaknesses. But we weren't standing around the majority of the
time
- alley oops and passing that gave a glimpse of some of the athleticism and playing together that I hope improves with each game
- rim protection like we haven't seen in a while
- Cooley left Sorber in too long - he seemed gassed at the end - I thought he may have tweaked his leg/hip when he slipped awkwardly and his shoe came off. Would have liked to see McKenna. Good to get a peek at Mulready, and both C. Williams
- some things that will lose us games (3 point shot defense) and easy buckets where defense slipped as well as things that will win us games (some get after it defensive coverage, playing together and creating plays and shots)
- mostly I saw 7-8 guys - most of them very athletic and promising - playing their first game together with whatever summer rust and jitters that come with first games. Glad we have 10 more games before BE play.

That's most of it. Not blown away but also not fearful of season ahead of mediocre, inconsistent ball.

For what it's worth.

Still very excited the season is here and we are off to a good start

[SFHoya99]

Thoughts on the game:

• While this game was closer than we like, I do think that we played it looser, from a coaching standpoint, than we will in the BE. Epps played a secondary role most of the game and the reality is that the two big lineup isn't going to work -- we will see a lot more Burks and Curtis Williams as the season goes on. And that lineup can defend.
• The defense was promising, but not good. There were a lot of bad possessions, but when we locked down, we were good. Again, Burks + Curtis and this team is much better defensively than last year. too many freshmen or two bigs and we're going to struggle.
• This should put to rest a lot of the Epps conversation. Yes, he's always going to be a bit of a heat check guy, a bit of a gunner, but he clearly waited this game and asserted himself when we needed it. Expect a lot more Epps in BE play than here -- he was holding back but won't when we need it. Also, that's not a bad thing no matter what most people will say.
• Sorber had big numbers but I was a bit disappointed. There's little in terms of low post moves and he's is not shockingly, freshman soft. I think he's got fantastic potential and is a great recruit, but the biggest negative takeaway is probably that in the BE, I do not think he's a plus rim protector or post scorer. That was too much to ask, but there it is.
• How much of this game was first game jitters from Mack and how much is this Malik Mack is the big question. Because he was not as much of a distributor as he needs to be, and he was not a good decision maker. He's advertised as better, and we need him to lean more pass than today, and to not gun so much. Everything people say about Epps was true about Mack today ...
• My #1 question for Cooley is ... we ran maybe 4 pnrs? And they all ended in easy buckets. Why aren't we running this more. Epps ran it incredibly well; Mack seemed to avoid it. All three bigs are good pnr guys -- can we stop trying to drive without a screen/pick?
• The officiating was trash. So many bad calls. If you fell down, regardless of contact, you got a call. I've forgotten how bad college refs are, but these dudes seemed like they weren't watching a good 50% of the time. They'd also let a ton of contact go and then call something ticky tack. High school level reffing.
• As a Warriors fan, I'm familiar with the idea that you shoot 3s when open, no matter what. But this team needs to stop settling because aside from Epps, they aren't good shooters. The margins are very small -- we just really can't afford lazy shots.
• We didn't roll them, and so I think I've lost some optimism. BUT, I do think Epps steps up, Mack plays better and we shorten the rotation come BE play. I know people wanted one of the centers to play PF -- I think Burks is going to be the guy. A big-Epps-Peavy-Burks-Williams team will be really reliant on Epps on offense, but it can defend.

[RusskyHoya]

As an example of how sometimes, really random things can have an impact on a game: I found myself sitting in the de facto Sidwell Friends/Cam Gillus cheering section. One of the old heads sitting next to me mentioned that Gillus had played a bunch of games in McDonough - and never lost a single one.

Sometimes, you play a team that's not very good, but they got a guy who played in your gym growing up and he goes 5 for 10 from three *shrug*

[concord]

Closer than I expected and stressful, but in the end it wasn’t in doubt. Sorber had an excellent debut, most excited I’ve been about a freshman since Mackinjo? If Julius can come along in his conditioning and scoring, our bigs are vastly improved. And the usage-rate concerns about Epps should be somewhat assuaged by his efficiency today.

Mack was all over the place and missed a lot of open looks. The wings are very feisty defensively but a little raw in terms of offense. Fielder looked lost. As a delusional Hoya fan, I’m confident all this can be improved.

There were times Lehigh hit well contested 3s where I couldn’t really fault the defense, but we also allowed a lot of open looks in midrange and layups to a craftier Lehigh team.

These Hoyas will go as far as Peavy will take them. His relative experience is very evident.

[kbones17]

Mixed bag but overall positive. Clearly defense needs to improve. Need more disruption in passing lanes and stickiness from Mack/Epps. But clearly we have more offensive weapons this year. We didn’t shoot well from 3, and got almost nothing on fast break and still put up 85 points. Sorber missed a few bunnies that he will get to fall later in the season. Julius looks skilled too. Burks is active and bouncy. Lots of potential if we can figure out a defensive identity.

[harlemhoya]

Nov 6, 2024 22:32:28 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

Thoughts on the game:

• While this game was closer than we like, I do think that we played it looser, from a coaching standpoint, than we will in the BE. Epps played a secondary role most of the game and the reality is that the two big lineup isn't going to work -- we will see a lot more Burks and Curtis Williams as the season goes on. And that lineup can defend.
• The defense was promising, but not good. There were a lot of bad possessions, but when we locked down, we were good. Again, Burks + Curtis and this team is much better defensively than last year. too many freshmen or two bigs and we're going to struggle.
• This should put to rest a lot of the Epps conversation. Yes, he's always going to be a bit of a heat check guy, a bit of a gunner, but he clearly waited this game and asserted himself when we needed it. Expect a lot more Epps in BE play than here -- he was holding back but won't when we need it. Also, that's not a bad thing no matter what most people will say.
• Sorber had big numbers but I was a bit disappointed. There's little in terms of low post moves and he's is not shockingly, freshman soft. I think he's got fantastic potential and is a great recruit, but the biggest negative takeaway is probably that in the BE, I do not think he's a plus rim protector or post scorer. That was too much to ask, but there it is.
• How much of this game was first game jitters from Mack and how much is this Malik Mack is the big question. Because he was not as much of a distributor as he needs to be, and he was not a good decision maker. He's advertised as better, and we need him to lean more pass than today, and to not gun so much. Everything people say about Epps was true about Mack today ...
• My #1 question for Cooley is ... we ran maybe 4 pnrs? And they all ended in easy buckets. Why aren't we running this more. Epps ran it incredibly well; Mack seemed to avoid it. All three bigs are good pnr guys -- can we stop trying to drive without a screen/pick?
• The officiating was trash. So many bad calls. If you fell down, regardless of contact, you got a call. I've forgotten how bad college refs are, but these dudes seemed like they weren't watching a good 50% of the time. They'd also let a ton of contact go and then call something ticky tack. High school level reffing.
• As a Warriors fan, I'm familiar with the idea that you shoot 3s when open, no matter what. But this team needs to stop settling because aside from Epps, they aren't good shooters. The margins are very small -- we just really can't afford lazy shots.
• We didn't roll them, and so I think I've lost some optimism. BUT, I do think Epps steps up, Mack plays better and we shorten the rotation come BE play. I know people wanted one of the centers to play PF -- I think Burks is going to be the guy. A big-Epps-Peavy-Burks-Williams team will be really reliant on Epps on offense, but it can defend.

Disappointed in Sorber? I think you will change your mind after 2 or 3 more games. He’s a puppy.

[HoyaChris]

Nov 6, 2024 22:32:28 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

Thoughts on the game:

[/li][li]Sorber had big numbers but I was a bit disappointed. There's little in terms of low post moves and he's is not shockingly, freshman soft. I think he's got fantastic potential and is a great recruit, but the biggest negative takeaway is probably that in the BE, I do not think he's a plus rim protector or post scorer. That was too much to ask, but there it is.[/li][li]

I almost always agree with SF's perspectives, but I really disagree on the Sorber assessment. He has an old man's game with lots and lots of little things - soft hands, gets good low-post position, shoots with either hand, gets good rebounding position and, surprisingly, had a couple out-of-area rebounds. Not a plus rim protector - but better relative to what we have had recently - but a plus post scorer by season's end. He reminds me a lot of Othella Harrington.

[RusskyHoya]

Nov 6, 2024 23:57:03 GMT -5 HoyaChris said:

Nov 6, 2024 22:32:28 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

Sorber had big numbers but I was a bit disappointed. There's little in terms of low post moves and he's is not shockingly, freshman soft. I think he's got fantastic potential and is a great recruit, but the biggest negative takeaway is probably that in the BE, I do not think he's a plus rim protector or post scorer. That was too much to ask, but there it is.

I almost always agree with SF's perspectives, but I really disagree on the Sorber assessment. He has an old man's game with lots and lots of little things - soft hands, gets good low-post position, shoots with either hand, gets good rebounding position and, surprisingly, had a couple out-of-area rebounds. Not a plus rim protector - but better relative to what we have had recently - but a plus post scorer by season's end. He reminds me a lot of Othella Harrington.

My biggest takeaway about finally seeing Sorber in person was how mobile he was. The "little in terms of low post moves" was true enough in terms of what was shown in the court, but it felt like that was a function of his not having to rely on that as a key part or his game. It's a good tool to have in the toolbox, but as the era of the traditional back-to-basket 5 is mostly behind us, I'm fine with the tradeoff being that he can fluidly move around the court in a way that many bigs can't.

Ironically, he's listed on the roster as 6'10, 255. You know who else was listed with those exact same measurements? "Fitness Jess" Govan.

[jackofjoy]

Nov 6, 2024 23:57:03 GMT -5 HoyaChris said:

Nov 6, 2024 22:32:28 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

Thoughts on the game:

[/li][li]Sorber had big numbers but I was a bit disappointed. There's little in terms of low post moves and he's is not shockingly, freshman soft. I think he's got fantastic potential and is a great recruit, but the biggest negative takeaway is probably that in the BE, I do not think he's a plus rim protector or post scorer. That was too much to ask, but there it is.[/li][li]

I almost always agree with SF's perspectives, but I really disagree on the Sorber assessment. He has an old man's game with lots and lots of little things - soft hands, gets good low-post position, shoots with either hand, gets good rebounding position and, surprisingly, had a couple out-of-area rebounds. Not a plus rim protector - but better relative to what we have had recently - but a plus post scorer by season's end. He reminds me a lot of Othella Harrington.[/quote]


I’ll overreact to a non-live ball play … Toward the end of the first half Sorber was fouled near the bucket. The whistle blew and the ball had come dislodged and was bouncing near Sorber’s feet. He bent down and retrieved the ball with a little “figure 8” through the legs finesse action and I thought “we got a good one”.

[SFHoya99]

Nov 6, 2024 23:57:03 GMT -5 HoyaChris said:

I almost always agree with SF's perspectives, but I really disagree on the Sorber assessment. He has an old man's game with lots and lots of little things - soft hands, gets good low-post position, shoots with either hand, gets good rebounding position and, surprisingly, had a couple out-of-area rebounds. Not a plus rim protector - but better relative to what we have had recently - but a plus post scorer by season's end. He reminds me a lot of Othella Harrington.

Nov 6, 2024 23:54:29 GMT -5 harlemhoya said:

[Disappointed in Sorber? I think you will change your mind after 2 or 3 more games. He’s a puppy.

So I feel like I should clarify.

This isn't "I'm disappointed in Sorber, the college freshman in his first game." Clearly, anyone who puts up these kind of numbers and shows what he did is going to be a good player.

This is really just against what are an unfair standard of what I hoped he could bring because if we have a player that does those things, the season upside changes.

We need rim protection. I honestly didn't think we could get plus rim protection out of a freshman, but then there were some whispers out of practice that he was contesting a lot of shots and ahead of where one might think there. But while that may be true, I've re-adjusted my expectations back to someone like Jesse Govan -- who he really resembled a lot. That's not on Sorber; it's just a team need and I don't think any of the bigs really showed plus rim protection. Which again, is more on my expectations.

The other thing that would unlock a lot is a way for our bigs to create some offense on their own. There had been no real talk of a low post game for Sorber, but I was hoping against a smaller team, we would see some rudimentary work. But I think in terms of actual moves, we're starting from scratch. I'm not looking for a dream shake here, but basic instincts and footwork are pretty lacking. It's all teachable, but you need a way to score if you are two feet from the rim.

His shot is good, he's mobile, he's a good passer, and all the freshmen were miles ahead of last year's team on basic positioning and rotation. I do wonder why we aren't screening more with the bigs and running pick and roll -- he's going to be a weapon in that because of his versatility and every time we had a player try to dribble one on one instead of running action with Sorber drove me a little nuts.

But against stronger BE opponents, I think there's going to be a decent amount of struggle this year. Expected, I guess, but I was hopeful.

[HoyaFanNY]

The obvious deficiencies with this team are 3 point shooting, turnovers and defense. I love the length and athleticism, so I'm hoping improved defense comes as the season moves along. Mack brings a quickness element that we haven't seen on this team in a long time but needs to be better with the ball. Sorber is an absolute beast. I can't comprehend any criticism towards him. Epps played under control. Fielder and Burks really rebound the ball and Peavy is the perfect mix of defense and scoring on high % shots. Ed is going to have to come up with an offense that creates high % shots from 2 and not focusing on taking too many 3's.

[calhoya]

A rollercoaster ride for a first game. Plenty to like but also some red flags. Long and athletic are physical traits we have not had in some time. Disciplined at times on both ends of the court but need more consistency here. Defense was spotty on perimeter with some horrible flashbacks to last year but then it tightened up showing the potential is there. Just need to stay focused. Really think that Williams and Burks will help as stoppers as the year progresses. Starting guards are small and as we saw last night a bigger guard will not need much separation to shoot over them.

While I see a massive upside for both posts, I agree completely with SFHoya that the version of Sorber we saw last night will struggle in conference play. He needs more moves in the arsenal on offense and he struggled to finish against a team that was smaller and less talented. Not a knock--just an observation about a super-talented kid who is still learning and adjusting to what is clearly a new body (based on some videos I saw from last year). Sorber drew lots of fouls which is good and is solid from the FT line, but can we count on BE refs being as whistle happy as the crew last night?

Need to keep Peavy involved in the offense. He was on fire at the end of the 1st half and then they got away from him early in the 2nd half. After getting back into the offense he forced some shots that he should not have taken.

Given the prior hype, I expected to see McKenna and Mulready as a part of the rotation. Hopefully opportunities will come for both as we are going to need to develop these kids to get the kind of continuity the program needs.

Mack will settle down. Like the energy and the ball handling. Kudos for Epps playing mostly within the flow of the game on offense. Still needs to focus on his defense, particularly given his size. He had several good moments on defense though.

Biggest concern is that when big and athletic teams start defending the post, where will the scoring come from. This is going to be a poor perimeter shooting team unless Williams or someone else can breakout.

Was not disappointed in Fielder at all. He hustled and fought on the boards and seemed a little more sure of himself on the defensive end. Wish they can get him into the flow of the offense more. He may be the best perimeter shooter on this team and his one shot from beyond the arc reminded me that he has the height and the mechanics to be a deep threat for this team.

Overall, there is a lot of potential on this team. Not certain how quickly it develops. Think we will learn alot from the ND, WV and Cuse games.

[bostonfan]

A good first game win for a team of new players. Some really positive things and a few things that need to be improved.
On the negative side of things:
I think the Hoyas came out a little bit too casual on defense and allowed Lehigh to get some easy/open looks and gain some confidence. Lehigh is not a good team, but those kids are D1 players and if you give them open shots, and some confidence, they will make shots. As the game wore on the defense became more active and aggressive and that took Lehigh out of their game. The Hoyas need to play with that level of commitment on defense for the entire game. Georgetown has enough long athletic players this season to be a much better defensive team.
The transition offense really needs to improve. It was good to see the Hoyas get out and run on steals and rebounds, but they need to execute much better and finish those plays. Some it may have been first game jitters and getting used to playing together, but they have not been a good transition team in a few years and with the athletes they have this year, they should be able to get some more easy buckets.
I thought overall Sorber was really good, but he seemed to run out of gas in the last 7-8 minutes. He lost his lift and explosiveness and that caused him to miss some easy baskets at the hoop. I was surprised they did not sub him out for a few minutes late in the game and give Julias a few more minutes. Some of that might be just the excitement of Sorber's first college game, but they will need him to finish games stronger as the year goes on.
On the positive side of things:
The two main transfers, Mack and Peavy, were both really good. Mack looked to be trying a little too hard early on, but he settled in and I thought played well and is a major upgrade at PG. Peavy is just a good all around player and helps the entire team on both ends of the floor.
The offense was much more efficient and diverse that last year. Mack can help Epps and take some of the scoring load off of him and Peavy looks like a better offensive player than I had thought he was. They also showed that the new big guys can offer some low post scoring that opponents will need to respect. Not having to count on only Epps to score at the end of games will make this a better team.
It was nice to see some long athletic wings that were willing to play aggressive defense. I thought both Burks and Cu Williams played really hard and gave the team a boost of energy while they were in there. Williams needs to make some shots (I think his shot looks good). Burks is probably not going to score a lot, but he will get a few offensive put backs and score in transition, he is a really elite athlete and really good rebounder.
The new frontcourt (Sorber, Julias and Fielder) gives me a lot of hope. They all have good size and show a lot of skill and potential. They are young and will have some good games, and some off games, but with the three of them I am hopeful that Cooley can mix and match them all season to give the team an interior presence every game. Throw Burks into that mix and you really have an interesting group.

I wish we could have gotten a bigger lead and we could have seen more of Mulready, Ca. William and McKenna. I thought Mulready looked good for the few minutes he was in the game and can be a defensive stopper against some bigger guards. Not sure if Mc Kenna was injured or not, because I was looking forward to seeing him play. the team is actually pretty deep and the fight for minutes will hopefully push them all to get better.