Georgetown - Lehigh 11/6/24 Discussion

[MCIGuy]

Nov 7, 2024 13:17:45 GMT -5 jwp91 said:

McKenna is looking like the 11th guy on the roster right now. I don't think he is injured.

Be a shame because he is considered by some to be the best potential long range shooter on the team.


Anyway there were those who were livid that Cooley didn’t bring in a big in a portal because we couldn’t rely on a freshman to compete in the paint. It’s only one game against a so-so team but I sure liked how Sorber looked on the court. It would have been a shame if he had his development slowed by coming off the bench to play backup up someone like Omoruyi. And I also would have hated to see Julius’ development harmed because of two bigs being ahead of him. Julius should be a heck of a player by the time January rolls around. As I said a few pages back I will take talent over experience most times. I think both Thomas and zJulius are more talented than Omoruyi.

[wolveribe]

Nov 7, 2024 13:13:34 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

Nov 7, 2024 12:19:53 GMT -5 wolveribe said:

Mack at 34% as a freshman is impressive.  Peavy is 31% last year, I get that.  Burks- I dont expect to shoot. Curtis Williams was known as a shooter and not just "1 AAU weekend"  Fielder can shoot  

34% isn't impressive even for a frosh it's solid for sure but they're Jahvon Blair numbers throughout his career.

I hope you're right about Cu. Williams but his 35 of 122 last season doesn't give me any reason to think he's a solid shooter.

As I stated in the previous post, we'll have to see if the offense flows in a way that allows the bigs to get 3pt chances.

34% isn't impressive for a freshman?  On what scale?  

Blair was 32%, he improved slightly over the course of his career and was certainly a solid 3 point shooter when you consider volume.

[bluegray79]

I like that Micah in the presser said that the team prides itself on its defense, and EC gave them a D on defense. No passes for inconsistent D. Huge shift to be speaking that language when you have the players to step up to it.

I like the three E's -- enthusiasm, energy, & effort -- as well as the emphasis EC has always preached about having the Will. So much of success in sports is having a grip on the mental part (attitude, desire, drive for excellence, etc.). There are lots of elite athletes who are physical wonders but lack the balance and perspective that comes with embracing the bigger picture concepts that direct and push one's level of play. Thinking/Hoping that those things are taking root in this group.

Wishing we had one more game after Fairfield and before ND to have us just a bit more ready for ND, which I think will be our first real test. But, no worries -- we don't, so we'll just have to be our best and rise to the challenge.

Looking forward to Saturday -- Fairfield and 1984 celebration!

[jwp91]

Nov 7, 2024 13:59:18 GMT -5 MCIGuy said:

Nov 7, 2024 13:17:45 GMT -5 jwp91 said:

McKenna is looking like the 11th guy on the roster right now. I don't think he is injured.

Be a shame because he is considered by some to be the best potential long range shooter on the team.


Anyway there were those who were livid that Cooley didn’t bring in a big in a portal because we couldn’t rely on a freshman to compete in the paint. It’s only one game against a so-so team but I sure liked how Sorber looked on the court. It would have been a shame if he had his development slowed by coming off the bench to play backup up someone like Omoruyi. And I also would have hated to see Julius’ development harmed because of two bigs being ahead of him. Julius should be a heck of a player by the time January rolls around. As I said a few pages back I will take talent over experience most times. I think both Thomas and zJulius are more talented than Omoruyi.

McKenna on his best day may be amazing. At this point, he is not consistently delivering.

Regarding bigs, there were multiple paths with different pros and cons. Ending up with Sorber and Julius is a far above acceptable path. We would be kidding ourselves if we didn't think there would be bumps in the future. It is a bit overly optimistic to plan to rely on a freshman from Day 1 at center. It may work out for us.

[95hoya]

Veteran frontcourts are going to eat us alive. In this day and age of basketball, there’s little to no benefit of just playing young guys for experience. Not saying Sorber wouldn’t be in the rotation, but we don’t have a big near ready to play close to 30 minutes a night against quality opponents.

[wolveribe]

I think people are going to be wrong about Sorber.

Granted, he's a freshman and will have bumps in the road, but day number 1 he's putting up a double double. He will have some bad but mostly good. I'm not sure what more to expect from him (while national writers are falling over themselves praising him)

[traversb]

Just finished the rewatch

- the best news from last night is that we didn't play Columbia

With the caveat being it was first game there were a lot of potential red flags
- I am not sure the biggest problem with the defense can just be fixed with time and experience. That problem is that Mack and Epps are just poor one on one defenders and short. That is a bad combo. If Lehigh is consistently getting by them and able to shoot over them what are real teams going to do. That leads to a lot of open 3's or flybys that have been the nightmares of seasons past.
- I would like to have some of whatever the "we are fine with 3 point shooting" crowd is having. I just don't see it. As I mentioned before the game I do think they're may be some shooting talent on this team. I am just not sure how many shots those guys are going to get. There will be games were we are fine and eve great, but consistently I don't see fine.
- I mentioned I didn't like the game Curtis Williams played during the game and I hated it more on rewatch. I can see why coaches would like him because he definitely brings the energy and hustle but his fundamentals/IQ weren't there last night. Could just be him trying to do too much to secure a spot in the rotation in game 1 but he needs to settle down.
- Epps played very well offensively until I complimented him after his heat check 3 went in. He followed that shot up with 3 of his next 4 shots being the ones we have grown to hate. He definitely let Mack do his thing which is easy to do when you are playing a weak opponent. It will be interesting when it gets to Big East crunch time what the backcourt guys do because......
- Mack looks like last year Epps and to me that is scary. You can tell the talent is definitely there but having two undersized score first guards that aren't great shooters is not the way to win in college basketball. It's not that his shot was off. It was that it was inconsistently off and there were some big misses that good shooter don't have. He also missed too many passes that were there and he just didn't make them.
- It's easy to tell that Peavy is the team's best player right now as he should be based on his age/experience. He hit some very tough shots, turnarounds/one foot runners etc., but maybe he has developed that. He's definitely going to help on the defensive end.
- Burks seemed to be what I think most probably figured him to be. A long athletic rim runner that is going to make some highlight plays. Definitely better on defense than offense and that is not a bad thing for this team.
- Caleb Williams looked very rough but I didn't expect much from him anyways. I do find it interesting that he is getting minutes over McKenna. I haven't seen every practice but from what I know about each I can't imagine McKenna looking worse than Caleb did last night. Mulready should've also got some of Williams minutes. Could it have been Cooley letting him play against his best friend? Could having a helicopter dad that seems to be the de facto social media spokesperson for the team be helping. Who knows?
- Put me in I can see both sides of the Sorber argument. He is a great player and if he stays a couple of years look out. 20/13 in your first college game should get all the attention it is getting. That said if he plays the same game as last night against real competition it wouldn't have been pretty. His shot and rebounds weren't "big boy" plays. They were I am just bigger and better than you. The guy he was going against for most of the night was a freshman as well. He didn't have as much success against the backup who was bigger and a junior. I am not downplaying that game at all as you can only play against the guys in front of you and he did exactly what you would hope he would to lower competition.
- You can tell Juluis plays more a foreign big man game. He can extend out to 3 and pass but his around the basket stuff was lacking. I am very excited to see how he turns out because the ceiling is high.
- Fielder played within himself and did a lot of little things that helped including a couple of big boards although they were I am just bigger than you boards most of the time. His 3 was right on but unfortunately for him rimmed out. There just aren't going to be enough shots for him since I don't see himself taking bad shots like a few other guys might. He is going to be needed for his bulk and experience come conference time.

In the end I think Cooley giving the offense a B was quite generous, but it was certainly better than the defense. In the end if you want to look at last night as a positive there is enough there and if you are worried things haven't progressed as much they are there as well. The 16-15 7-13 KenPom seems like a very reasonable baseline after what I saw last night. If it would've been last year I would say no way we get to 7 conference wins but the Big East is not showing very well early so there will be games there for the taking.

[kettlehill]

The thing I most liked about Sorber...and it came out more as the game progressed- the kid is a dawg! And he is clearly going to be a leader. I sure hope we have him for 2-3 years.

[95hoya]

Nov 7, 2024 15:00:00 GMT -5 wolveribe said:

I think people are going to be wrong about Sorber.

Granted, he's a freshman and will have bumps in the road, but day number 1 he's putting up a double double. He will have some bad but mostly good. I'm not sure what more to expect from him (while national writers are falling over themselves praising him)

He is talented for sure, but he shot 13 free throws from the field mostly because the opponent had absolutely no size. It was the varsity playing the JV. He was just 5-13 from the field. It’s not about him, it’s the inexperience in our frontcourt and it’s going to get exposed quickly. Young players get in foul trouble and mess up rotations. We needed a vet.

[EtomicB]

Nov 7, 2024 14:00:27 GMT -5 wolveribe said:

Nov 7, 2024 13:13:34 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

34% isn't impressive even for a frosh it's solid for sure but they're Jahvon Blair numbers throughout his career.

I hope you're right about Cu. Williams but his 35 of 122 last season doesn't give me any reason to think he's a solid shooter.

As I stated in the previous post, we'll have to see if the offense flows in a way that allows the bigs to get 3pt chances.

34% isn't impressive for a freshman?  On what scale?  

Blair was 32%, he improved slightly over the course of his career and was certainly a solid 3 point shooter when you consider volume.

On any scale IMHO. We agree on Blair who was a solid shooter but nowhere impressive...


having said this I hope I'm proven wrong by all

[FHillsNYHoya]

Nov 7, 2024 9:09:23 GMT -5 suicideslushpuppie said:

Hate to say it but based on that performance I think it's going to be another long season, finishing near the bottom of the conference with single-digit wins again.

What a silly take.

[hoyarooter]

I only saw the second half, so I didn't see much of Julius, but if SF is correct that none of the bigs can play together, I fear that Fielder will ultimately be the odd man out. We'll have to see how things develop.

Also, I don't think we will see any games this year where Epps takes 20 shots, and that's a good thing. I also hope that we don't see any games where Mack takes 20 shots. We'll see how that goes.

[MCIGuy]

Nov 7, 2024 14:15:28 GMT -5 jwp91 said:

McKenna on his best day may be amazing. At this point, he is not consistently delivering.

Maybe but neither of us are in the room to witness any of this personally. We rely on second hand information. And the people relaying that second hand information certainly haven't said better things about Curtis Williams this summer or fall, despite any possible up-and-down showings from McKenna. Not even close. Caleb Williams hasn't been spoke of all that positively until these past two or so weeks. Both got to see the court though. Obviously Cooley made this choice based on what he has seen. I have to respect that. And to be fair their minutes, especially Caleb's were limited anyway. Nonetheless my previous comments were about the need for three-point shooting. Alongside some reports about McKenna needing to figure things out and simplify some areas have also been more consistent observations about him being a very capable shooter who may also have the best shooting form on the team. Its as simple as that.

But here is my issue. Both McKenna and Sorber were asked by the staff to bypass their last year in high school and enroll at Georgetown a year early. I was on record being against this. I prefer players to have that invaluable final high school experience for both beneficial on-court and off-court reasons. Sorber declined. McKenna, Cooley's first recruit after arriving at GU, agreed. Some graduation issues led to him only being able to matriculate at GU for the second semester, but point is he didn't really have a senior year. Was it worth it? He was a Top 75 recruit going into his final season. He could have very possibly developed his tremendous skills even further being THE MAN on that high school team and perhaps growing as a player to the extend he could have led him team to greater success. All the while enjoying that final year in high school with his teammates and friends. instead he bypasses this to become a Hoya as soon as possible. And despite having an advantage by arriving on campus like half a year before his current teammates not named Epps and Fielder, he is the lone scholarship guy to not get a sniff. And because he is a DMV guy there is a 100% chance he had family in the stands for the first game of his Georgetown career. Yet not a second of playing time. We can all make logical conclusions obviously of why this is the case, but I won't be flippant about it like some of you who have already downgraded McKenna to DNP status for virtually the entire upcoming season. I feel for this kid and I wish he had not given up a final year of development in high school for what seems to be no development during his ten months on the Georgetown campus.

Regarding bigs, there were multiple paths with different pros and cons. Ending up with Sorber and Julius is a far above acceptable path. We would be kidding ourselves if we didn't think there would be bumps in the future. It is a bit overly optimistic to plan to rely on a freshman from Day 1 at center. It may work out for us.

Been watching college basketball long enough to recall plenty of freshmen bigs, even those that did not end up being pros, being able to more than hold their own in college basketball. Its only these past few years with the portal that people have come to this mindset that you gotta have 23 year olds in order to be successful. No one knows for sure if a highly regarded high school player will have his game translate quickly (if at all) at the college level, but if they are talented then chances are good. I felt Sorber was talented enough and I only wanted Cooley to pursue a big in the portal for depth purposes. The depth will be provided, it seems by another frosh who may even be more talented. Granted this is not the norm.

[MCIGuy]

Nov 7, 2024 14:52:08 GMT -5 95hoya said:

Veteran frontcourts are going to eat us alive. In this day and age of basketball, there’s little to no benefit of just playing young guys for experience. Not saying Sorber wouldn’t be in the rotation, but we don’t have a big near ready to play close to 30 minutes a night against quality opponents.

What veteran frontcourt in the BE are you losing sleep over.

[hoyaroc]

I guess a decent win. What do you guys think?

[zxhoya]

Nov 7, 2024 15:38:36 GMT -5 95hoya said:

Nov 7, 2024 15:00:00 GMT -5 wolveribe said:

I think people are going to be wrong about Sorber.

Granted, he's a freshman and will have bumps in the road, but day number 1 he's putting up a double double. He will have some bad but mostly good. I'm not sure what more to expect from him (while national writers are falling over themselves praising him)

He is talented for sure, but he shot 13 free throws from the field mostly because the opponent had absolutely no size. It was the varsity playing the JV. He was just 5-13 from the field. It’s not about him, it’s the inexperience in our frontcourt and it’s going to get exposed quickly. Young players get in foul trouble and mess up rotations. We needed a vet.

You mean like Supreme Cook? Cook was a vet, and I respected his fight and competitiveness, but he was a sieve defensively. I'll take the Freshman who has to learn but has all the tools and measurables and from just one game in, performed at a minimum, to the level that the Vet we had last season did.

Expecting Sorber to be a finished product one game in is just unrealistic. I was super impressed with Thomas. Power drop steps over either shoulder, great hands, seems to have natural rebounding instincts and is a 'Dawg' competitor. He'll improve every game and my prediction, Freshman of the Year.

[DanMcQ]

Nov 8, 2024 8:43:43 GMT -5 zxhoya said:

Nov 7, 2024 15:38:36 GMT -5 95hoya said:

He is talented for sure, but he shot 13 free throws from the field mostly because the opponent had absolutely no size. It was the varsity playing the JV. He was just 5-13 from the field. It’s not about him, it’s the inexperience in our frontcourt and it’s going to get exposed quickly. Young players get in foul trouble and mess up rotations. We needed a vet.

You mean like Supreme Cook? Cook was a vet, and I respected his fight and competitiveness, but he was a sieve defensively. I'll take the Freshman who has to learn but has all the tools and measurables and from just one game in, performed at a minimum, to the level that the Vet we had last season did.

Expecting Sorber to be a finished product one game in is just unrealistic. I was super impressed with Thomas. Power drop steps over either shoulder, great hands, seems to have natural rebounding instincts and is a 'Dawg' competitor. He'll improve every game and my prediction, Freshman of the Year.

We haven’t seen post moves like that in a Hoya uniform in almost a decade.

[bearsandbulls]

Nov 8, 2024 8:43:43 GMT -5 zxhoya said:

Nov 7, 2024 15:38:36 GMT -5 95hoya said:

He is talented for sure, but he shot 13 free throws from the field mostly because the opponent had absolutely no size. It was the varsity playing the JV. He was just 5-13 from the field. It’s not about him, it’s the inexperience in our frontcourt and it’s going to get exposed quickly. Young players get in foul trouble and mess up rotations. We needed a vet.

You mean like Supreme Cook? Cook was a vet, and I respected his fight and competitiveness, but he was a sieve defensively. I'll take the Freshman who has to learn but has all the tools and measurables and from just one game in, performed at a minimum, to the level that the Vet we had last season did.

Expecting Sorber to be a finished product one game in is just unrealistic. I was super impressed with Thomas. Power drop steps over either shoulder, great hands, seems to have natural rebounding instincts and is a 'Dawg' competitor. He'll improve every game and my prediction, Freshman of the Year.

Don't know what one expects from a freshman, but what I saw was more than promising. Sorber is an exciting player with a great future. We need to start now to secure him for as long as possible. Love Peavy too, but we only get his talent for one year.

[professorhoya]

Nov 7, 2024 20:44:11 GMT -5 hoyarooter said:

I only saw the second half, so I didn't see much of Julius, but if SF is correct that none of the bigs can play together, I fear that Fielder will ultimately be the odd man out. We'll have to see how things develop.

Also, I don't think we will see any games this year where Epps takes 20 shots, and that's a good thing. I also hope that we don't see any games where Mack takes 20 shots. We'll see how that goes.

I think Sorber and Halaifonua can play together but it does seem that Fielder isn’t the best option to play with Sorber/Halaifonua.
It’s early but it seems like Fielder can only play as a stretch 5 on this roster because in order for Fielder to be an effective stretch 4 he needs an elite rim protector at the five.

He needs an elite rim protector because he has to overplay/guard closely the 3 pt shooters which allows people to blow by him and an elite rim protector is needed to erase those mistakes (which aren’t really mistakes but a lack of lateral movement for Fielder at 3/4)
Hopefully I’m wrong on this and Fielder can effectively defend at the 4 spot otherwise he’s not going to see much time because we have much better interchangeable defensive options at the 4 (who can guard the 3pt line, guard dribble penetration and also rebound/block shots) in Burks, McKenna, Peavy, Curtis Williams.

I like Halaifonua a lot.
He has massive tree trunk legs and base. Cooley will over the course of this year teach him how to get low and use it to dominate inside. Along with Halaifonuaas elite Polynesian athleticism expect him to become a monster by the end of the season.

Sorber will eventually become a bigger Ben Bentil for Cooley.

[SFHoya99]

Nov 8, 2024 8:52:05 GMT -5 DanMcQ said:

We haven’t seen post moves like that in a Hoya uniform in almost a decade.

At this point, I somewhat feel like I am taking crazy pills here, Dan.

Sorber is very promising, but he really has no post moves. He tried to spin baseline from both sides when there was nothing there, traveling at least once, and I think twice and pinning himself under the backboard multiple times. All against a smaller guy.

This is all learnable; it's fine. But there's a lot to work on there, at least from this game. My comments weren't a criticism of Sorber so much as a recognition that it is going to take some time.

And smokeyjack (does that work here?) - I really don't see that level of athleticism. It's not poor, but I find it hard to believe say, someone like Alonzo Mourning never had a more athletic play than the one referenced. He might be more athletic than Govan, but I haven't really seen anything that would put him above Monroe in those terms (and certainly not Green, Wes Wilson, Otto Porter, etc. in that aspect). Monroe was a decade long NBA player, so I'm not knocking him.