2024 Kenner League Discussion

[hoyaboya]

PRHoya makes a great point in an earlier post, in that it probably doesn't make sense for Thomas Sorber and Drew Fielder to play in the Kenner League this summer. With such a short rotation of bigs on the 2024-2025 Hoyas roster, an injury to either Sorber or Fielder (who has been injury-prone) would be devastating.

It got me thinking - what is the point of Kenner League for the Hoyas, anyway? This is not the Kenner League of old where you'd have NBA guys like Steve Francis and Jerome Williams come back and compete against a group of strong high major college players. At this stage, Kenner is basically a bunch of current mid-major and low-major local players plus local has-beens playing in low-level professional leagues overseas. The competition is not nearly as good as what the Hoyas will face when they go up against Big East teams and the "coaching" is typically absurd, with more of an NBA all-star feel than a real game being competed.

Last year, reports out of Kenner were that Rowan Brumbaugh was a beast and Wayne Bristol was going to have a huge year. While I'm still a Brumbaugh fan, many of the same people toasting him during Kenner season were ready to send him packing by the end of his first real college basketball season.

To me, the 2024-2025 Hoyas would be better served getting stronger, in better shape, and working on their fundamentals instead of playing lazy, playground-style Kenner ball against bad competition.

[SSHoya]

Kenner only lasts 5 weekends or so. Seems to me you can do S & C and also play in Kenner. It's not an either or situation.

I would think that the games would break up the monotony of only S & C during the summer.

[kghoya]

Kenner was great when all of the incoming freshman played together on the Tombs alongside two returners. Since then, meh.

[hoyaboya]

Jun 17, 2024 12:04:04 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

Kenner only lasts 5 weekends or so. Seems to me you can do S & C and also play in Kenner. It's not an either or situation.

I would think that the games would break up the monotony of only S & C during the summer.

Of course you can do both, but at this point, what are the positives associated with Hoyas playing in Kenner League? The level of competition is poor and the play is sloppy. The highest likelihood of results is picking up bad habits and injuries.

[SSHoya]

Jun 17, 2024 12:18:20 GMT -5 hoyaboya said:

Jun 17, 2024 12:04:04 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

Kenner only lasts 5 weekends or so. Seems to me you can do S & C and also play in Kenner. It's not an either or situation.

I would think that the games would break up the monotony of only S & C during the summer.

Of course you can do both, but at this point, what are the positives associated with Hoyas playing in Kenner League? The level of competition is poor and the play is sloppy. The highest likelihood of results is picking up bad habits and injuries.

Fun. Anyone who's played on a team sport and have been through such drills in preparation for an upcoming season always want to just play. Good for morale and if you're picking up bad habits in Kenner, the coaching must stink anyway!😀

Plus, always a good opportunity to chat with Chvotkin.

[sweetness]

I don't agree with sitting them at all. Young guys should always play Kenner - it's organized hoops, and that's definitely a way to get better. Quality of the league seems to vary year to year: last year was down a bit, hopefully this year will be better.

[bluechi]

Jun 17, 2024 11:15:20 GMT -5 hoyaboya said:

PRHoya makes a great point in an earlier post, in that it probably doesn't make sense for Thomas Sorber and Drew Fielder to play in the Kenner League this summer. With such a short rotation of bigs on the 2024-2025 Hoyas roster, an injury to either Sorber or Fielder (who has been injury-prone) would be devastating.

It got me thinking - what is the point of Kenner League for the Hoyas, anyway? This is not the Kenner League of old where you'd have NBA guys like Steve Francis and Jerome Williams come back and compete against a group of strong high major college players. At this stage, Kenner is basically a bunch of current mid-major and low-major local players plus local has-beens playing in low-level professional leagues overseas. The competition is not nearly as good as what the Hoyas will face when they go up against Big East teams and the "coaching" is typically absurd, with more of an NBA all-star feel than a real game being competed.

Last year, reports out of Kenner were that Rowan Brumbaugh was a beast and Wayne Bristol was going to have a huge year. While I'm still a Brumbaugh fan, many of the same people toasting him during Kenner season were ready to send him packing by the end of his first real college basketball season.

To me, the 2024-2025 Hoyas would be better served getting stronger, in better shape, and working on their fundamentals instead of playing lazy, playground-style Kenner ball against bad competition.

"
Last year, reports out of Kenner were that Rowan Brumbaugh was a beast and Wayne Bristol was going to have a huge year. While I'm still a Brumbaugh fan, many of the same people toasting him during Kenner season were ready to send him packing by the end of his first real college basketball season" I don't agree with this a LOT of folks we're not happy when he left. Earlier in the season yes...

[bluechi]

Jun 17, 2024 12:18:20 GMT -5 hoyaboya said:

Jun 17, 2024 12:04:04 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

Kenner only lasts 5 weekends or so. Seems to me you can do S & C and also play in Kenner. It's not an either or situation.

I would think that the games would break up the monotony of only S & C during the summer.

Of course you can do both, but at this point, what are the positives associated with Hoyas playing in Kenner League? The level of competition is poor and the play is sloppy. The highest likelihood of results is picking up bad habits and injuries.

player level positivity in that you can work on aspects of your game against some semblance of competition and can stay engaged. In my 30 years of following Kenner maybe there's been 3 injuries. Maybe.

[hoyaguy]

Jun 17, 2024 12:36:55 GMT -5 bluechi said:

Jun 17, 2024 11:15:20 GMT -5 hoyaboya said:

PRHoya makes a great point in an earlier post, in that it probably doesn't make sense for Thomas Sorber and Drew Fielder to play in the Kenner League this summer. With such a short rotation of bigs on the 2024-2025 Hoyas roster, an injury to either Sorber or Fielder (who has been injury-prone) would be devastating.

It got me thinking - what is the point of Kenner League for the Hoyas, anyway? This is not the Kenner League of old where you'd have NBA guys like Steve Francis and Jerome Williams come back and compete against a group of strong high major college players. At this stage, Kenner is basically a bunch of current mid-major and low-major local players plus local has-beens playing in low-level professional leagues overseas. The competition is not nearly as good as what the Hoyas will face when they go up against Big East teams and the "coaching" is typically absurd, with more of an NBA all-star feel than a real game being competed.

Last year, reports out of Kenner were that Rowan Brumbaugh was a beast and Wayne Bristol was going to have a huge year. While I'm still a Brumbaugh fan, many of the same people toasting him during Kenner season were ready to send him packing by the end of his first real college basketball season.

To me, the 2024-2025 Hoyas would be better served getting stronger, in better shape, and working on their fundamentals instead of playing lazy, playground-style Kenner ball against bad competition.

"
Last year, reports out of Kenner were that Rowan Brumbaugh was a beast and Wayne Bristol was going to have a huge year. While I'm still a Brumbaugh fan, many of the same people toasting him during Kenner season were ready to send him packing by the end of his first real college basketball season" I don't agree with this a LOT of folks we're not happy when he left. Earlier in the season yes...

I too did not want him to leave under the premise that we were gonna get a veteran pg for a year and he’d continue to adjust because in part I didn’t think we could get Mack or someone in high demand. Once it seemed like he was looking to start, I didn’t think he is a starter next year on a winning high major team but could develop. I think the staff felt some heat and had an angle with Mack so they went for it.

[prhoya]

Jun 17, 2024 12:04:04 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

Kenner only lasts 5 weekends or so. Seems to me you can do S & C and also play in Kenner. It's not an either or situation.

If the player(s) get s) injured, then it’s a “neither” situation.

[prhoya]

Jun 17, 2024 12:28:37 GMT -5 sweetness said:

I don't agree with sitting them at all. Young guys should always play Kenner - it's organized hoops, and that's definitely a way to get better. Quality of the league seems to vary year to year: last year was down a bit, hopefully this year will be better.

And if Fielder or Sorber gets injured, what happens to the season? We could end up #10 or 11 yet again, other teams picking off our best players who also want a chance at the NCAAT, not getting the recruits Cooley wants because the top recruits want to win, and back to starting from scratch, “rebuilding the brand” (or any other cliché phrase) in Year 3 and another $45M down the drain…

[SSHoya]

You go into the season "scared" you're going to play "scared."

Ohhh, if I hustle for that rebound or try to save a ball in bounds, I might get hurt! Better play at 80%!

(N.B. I'm a guy who tore his MCL and ACL in Navy officer training because we were playing a mandatory game against our staff and we wanted to beat 'em! The whole point of the game was to build company morale and to bond as a team. We were ordered to skip lunch for that game! Grrrr!)

Life happens.

[practice]

Do you think guys don't play pick up basketball games? This is a ridiculous suggestion. Kenner allows them to get some run in with other D1 and former D1 players. We are talking about a 2 hour a week commitment. I don't think these teams practice very often. Do you want Sorber and Fields to not engage in any physical activity all summer that could potentially injure them? Kenner injuries are few and far between -- but at least there's a trainer attending every game and an emergency room about a quarter of a mile away.

If Kenner does exist then we should also shut down Hoya Talk all summer -- Kenner gives guys a chance to play and it gives fans a chance to see the team. Could it be much better? Of course! But it's better than nothing. Also Kenner is one of the very few tangible connections the university has with a big part of the city.

Let's get the team in wheelchairs this summer ... no need risking having them walk around at all until the home opener!

[jackofjoy]

Jun 17, 2024 13:21:34 GMT -5 practice said:

Do you think guys don't play pick up basketball games? This is a ridiculous suggestion. Kenner allows them to get some run in with other D1 and former D1 players. We are talking about a 2 hour a week commitment. I don't think these teams practice very often. Do you want Sorber and Fields to not engage in any physical activity all summer that could potentially injure them? Kenner injuries are few and far between -- but at least there's a trainer attending every game and an emergency room about a quarter of a mile away.

If Kenner does exist then we should also shut down Hoya Talk all summer -- Kenner gives guys a chance to play and it gives fans a chance to see the team. Could it be much better? Of course! But it's better than nothing. Also Kenner is one of the very few tangible connections the university has with a big part of the city.

Let's get the team in wheelchairs this summer ... no need risking having them walk around at all until the home opener!

Excellent idea. Who are the largest wheelchair manufacturers and can we get some NIL?

[prhoya]

Jun 17, 2024 13:19:09 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

You go into the season "scared" you're going to play "scared."

Ohhh, if I hustle for that rebound or try to save a ball in bounds, I might get hurt! Better play at 80%!

(N.B. I'm a guy who tore his MCL and ACL in Navy officer training because we were playing a mandatory game against our staff and we wanted to beat 'em!)

Life happens.

I’ve also had serious injuries both in games and in practice, but the season did not depend on me because we were stacked, just as a season (and a program) didn’t depend on you in officer training. Unfortunately, GU is not stacked.

Injuries happen, sure. Remember one of our players who stepped on a ball in Kenner, had to wear a boot and had a nagging injury during the season?

It is wise to try to limit injuries to your key players. It’s why pro players sign contracts with clauses which limit their extracurricular activities (i.e., like no skiing, etc).

I would encourage every other player to have fun in Kenner, just not Fielder and Sorber, our two most important players (because we’re extra thin in their position) next season. Wasn’t it Pickett who didn’t play KL to focus on skills all summer?

[78HOYA78]

Understand all - however, Kenner League or not, you are now competing at the collegiate level and how can you not play hard or how can you just play at 80%. Especially a young player when you have an audience or in today's internet coverage that may get out. Also, isn't there a league champion - has to mean a little something.

[SSHoya]

Jun 17, 2024 13:46:21 GMT -5 prhoya said:

Jun 17, 2024 13:19:09 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

You go into the season "scared" you're going to play "scared."

Ohhh, if I hustle for that rebound or try to save a ball in bounds, I might get hurt! Better play at 80%!

(N.B. I'm a guy who tore his MCL and ACL in Navy officer training because we were playing a mandatory game against our staff and we wanted to beat 'em!)

Life happens.

I’ve also had serious injuries both in games and in practice, but the season did not depend on me because we were stacked, just as a season (and a program) didn’t depend on you in officer training. Unfortunately, GU is not stacked.

Injuries happen, sure. Remember one of our players who stepped on a ball in Kenner, had to wear a boot and had a nagging injury during the season?

It is wise to try to limit injuries to your key players. It’s why pro players sign contracts with clauses which limit their extracurricular activities (i.e., like no skiing, etc).

I would encourage every other player to have fun in Kenner, just not Fielder and Sorber, our two most important players (because we’re extra thin in their position) next season. Wasn’t it Pickett who didn’t play KL to focus on skills all summer?

Should Cooley not play them in our weak MTE either? Save 'em for the conference??

And the country depended upon me in returning to full duty in the Navy! 😀😀😀

(Took me over one year to be returned to full duty).

[prhoya]

Jun 17, 2024 14:15:26 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

Jun 17, 2024 13:46:21 GMT -5 prhoya said:

I’ve also had serious injuries both in games and in practice, but the season did not depend on me because we were stacked, just as a season (and a program) didn’t depend on you in officer training. Unfortunately, GU is not stacked.

Injuries happen, sure. Remember one of our players who stepped on a ball in Kenner, had to wear a boot and had a nagging injury during the season?

It is wise to try to limit injuries to your key players. It’s why pro players sign contracts with clauses which limit their extracurricular activities (i.e., like no skiing, etc).

I would encourage every other player to have fun in Kenner, just not Fielder and Sorber, our two most important players (because we’re extra thin in their position) next season. Wasn’t it Pickett who didn’t play KL to focus on skills all summer?

Should Cooley not play them in our weak MTE either? Save 'em for the conference??

Nope. Everyone should play plenty of minutes in the weak MTE, just like I thought would happen last year.

[prhoya]

Jun 17, 2024 14:12:04 GMT -5 78HOYA78 said:

Understand all - however, Kenner League or not, you are now competing at the collegiate level and how can you not play hard or how can you just play at 80%. Especially a young player when you have an audience or in today's internet coverage that may get out. Also, isn't there a league champion - has to mean a little something.

And a MVP award, which IIRC Departed Rowan won.

[hoyaboya]

Jun 17, 2024 14:19:49 GMT -5 prhoya said:

Jun 17, 2024 14:15:26 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

Should Cooley not play them in our weak MTE either? Save 'em for the conference??

Nope. Everyone should play plenty of minutes in the weak MTE, just like I thought would happen last year.

We'd be better off not playing in the weak MTE than playing in it at all. A better use of time would be scrimmages against high major teams that don't count for anything. The MTE as currently scheduled will hurt us more than help us.