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Post by HoyaRejuveNation85 on Jul 19, 2024 11:10:39 GMT -5
I think it is another look to experiment with. Perhaps Mack and Epps are both very strong off the ball. Perhaps what is gained with Mack and Epps off the ball is greater than what did last year is lost with Peavy in a distributor role. And maybe better defense with Peavy on the floor with one of Mack/Epps… Peavy’s defensive versatility should be key to preventing us from getting bullied with impunity by big guards as we often were last year.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jul 19, 2024 12:01:10 GMT -5
I would be a little surprised to see Sorber beat out Fielder even if he's a bit bulkier. But if he does, I think that's a very good sign on Sorber unless it's injury driven.
Fielder was effective in limited time last year. We know he's bulked up some, so one of his weaknesses is lessened -- the other really being defending on the perimeter / foul trouble.
Those two things are also something that freshmen struggle with -- I think if Sorber actually ends up starting, he's either very good offensively or more ready defensively than I expected a freshman to be.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jul 19, 2024 12:13:09 GMT -5
Just my opinion, but Ed Cooley was not at his best in that interview. Blaming the talent for last season rings hollow when you realize that 12 of the 15 players that saw the court last season were recruited by, well, Ed Cooley. Unless someone is going to claim that Jay Heath, Wayne Bristol, and Ryan Mutombo somehow held that team back from an NCAA invitation, this staff selected and coached the players that finished 2-18 in the Big East and came within two game ending shots by DePaul of finishing 0-20. Perhaps he wanted to avoid the "we didn't have much depth" response, given he still has three open scholarships, but throwing those who are no longer in the program under a bus is bad form, and is simply way too early to open the proverbial first envelope of a struggling executive. He's too smart a coach than to go down this path. Very few people would have faulted Cooley for stating the obvious at the start: he entered a dysfunctional program and this may be a three or four year rebuild. He would not have lost any support by being frank and say that GU simply wasn't going to be good for the next few seasons but to be patient. Now, he's in the dilemma that if the Hoyas don't improve this season with another set of players he brought in, the press is going to turn the heat lamp his way (or towards Kyle Neptune, take your pick) whether it's deserved or not.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jul 19, 2024 12:27:59 GMT -5
Just my opinion, but Ed Cooley was not at his best in that interview. Blaming the talent for last season rings hollow when you realize that 12 of the 15 players that saw the court last season were recruited by, well, Ed Cooley. Unless someone is going to claim that Jay Heath, Wayne Bristol, and Ryan Mutombo somehow held that team back from an NCAA invitation, this staff selected and coached the players that finished 2-18 in the Big East and came within two game ending shots by DePaul of finishing 0-20. Perhaps he wanted to avoid the "we didn't have much depth" response, given he still has three open scholarships, but throwing those who are no longer in the program under a bus is bad form, and is simply way too early to open the proverbial first envelope of a struggling executive. He's too smart a coach than to go down this path. Very few people would have faulted Cooley for stating the obvious at the start: he entered a dysfunctional program and this may be a three or four year rebuild. He would not have lost any support by being frank and say that GU simply wasn't going to be good for the next few seasons but to be patient. Now, he's in the dilemma that if the Hoyas don't improve this season with another set of players he brought in, the press is going to turn the heat lamp his way (or towards Kyle Neptune, take your pick) whether it's deserved or not. Very well stated.
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bluechi
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 707
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Post by bluechi on Jul 19, 2024 12:45:13 GMT -5
Just my opinion, but Ed Cooley was not at his best in that interview. Blaming the talent for last season rings hollow when you realize that 12 of the 15 players that saw the court last season were recruited by, well, Ed Cooley. Unless someone is going to claim that Jay Heath, Wayne Bristol, and Ryan Mutombo somehow held that team back from an NCAA invitation, this staff selected and coached the players that finished 2-18 in the Big East and came within two game ending shots by DePaul of finishing 0-20. Perhaps he wanted to avoid the "we didn't have much depth" response, given he still has three open scholarships, but throwing those who are no longer in the program under a bus is bad form, and is simply way too early to open the proverbial first envelope of a struggling executive. He's too smart a coach than to go down this path. Very few people would have faulted Cooley for stating the obvious at the start: he entered a dysfunctional program and this may be a three or four year rebuild. He would not have lost any support by being frank and say that GU simply wasn't going to be good for the next few seasons but to be patient. Now, he's in the dilemma that if the Hoyas don't improve this season with another set of players he brought in, the press is going to turn the heat lamp his way (or towards Kyle Neptune, take your pick) whether it's deserved or not. wait where's the interview? interesting bc Ed is not usually a blamer but he prides himself on being blunt but also leaving doors open for guys and figuratively so there's that I need to hear how he said it and context but sigh... Pressure to bet better this year for sure.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jul 19, 2024 12:55:29 GMT -5
Now, he's in the dilemma that if the Hoyas don't improve this season with another set of players he brought in, the press is going to turn the heat lamp his way (or towards Kyle Neptune, take your pick) whether it's deserved or not. What press? (only partially sarcastic)
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DanMcQ
Moderator
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Post by DanMcQ on Jul 19, 2024 12:56:30 GMT -5
Just my opinion, but Ed Cooley was not at his best in that interview. Blaming the talent for last season rings hollow when you realize that 12 of the 15 players that saw the court last season were recruited by, well, Ed Cooley. Unless someone is going to claim that Jay Heath, Wayne Bristol, and Ryan Mutombo somehow held that team back from an NCAA invitation, this staff selected and coached the players that finished 2-18 in the Big East and came within two game ending shots by DePaul of finishing 0-20. Perhaps he wanted to avoid the "we didn't have much depth" response, given he still has three open scholarships, but throwing those who are no longer in the program under a bus is bad form, and is simply way too early to open the proverbial first envelope of a struggling executive. He's too smart a coach than to go down this path. Very few people would have faulted Cooley for stating the obvious at the start: he entered a dysfunctional program and this may be a three or four year rebuild. He would not have lost any support by being frank and say that GU simply wasn't going to be good for the next few seasons but to be patient. Now, he's in the dilemma that if the Hoyas don't improve this season with another set of players he brought in, the press is going to turn the heat lamp his way (or towards Kyle Neptune, take your pick) whether it's deserved or not. wait where's the interview? interesting bc Ed is not usually a blamer but he prides himself on being blunt but also leaving doors open for guys and figuratively so there's that I need to hear how he said it and context but sigh... Pressure to bet better this year for sure. ...from the "current state of Hoya basketball" thread:
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bluechi
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by bluechi on Jul 19, 2024 13:25:27 GMT -5
wait where's the interview? interesting bc Ed is not usually a blamer but he prides himself on being blunt but also leaving doors open for guys and figuratively so there's that I need to hear how he said it and context but sigh... Pressure to bet better this year for sure. ...from the "current state of Hoya basketball" thread: thx read it. Didn't see blaming but that's subjective
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Post by aleutianhoya on Jul 19, 2024 13:35:24 GMT -5
Just my opinion, but Ed Cooley was not at his best in that interview. Blaming the talent for last season rings hollow when you realize that 12 of the 15 players that saw the court last season were recruited by, well, Ed Cooley. Unless someone is going to claim that Jay Heath, Wayne Bristol, and Ryan Mutombo somehow held that team back from an NCAA invitation, this staff selected and coached the players that finished 2-18 in the Big East and came within two game ending shots by DePaul of finishing 0-20. Perhaps he wanted to avoid the "we didn't have much depth" response, given he still has three open scholarships, but throwing those who are no longer in the program under a bus is bad form, and is simply way too early to open the proverbial first envelope of a struggling executive. He's too smart a coach than to go down this path. Very few people would have faulted Cooley for stating the obvious at the start: he entered a dysfunctional program and this may be a three or four year rebuild. He would not have lost any support by being frank and say that GU simply wasn't going to be good for the next few seasons but to be patient. Now, he's in the dilemma that if the Hoyas don't improve this season with another set of players he brought in, the press is going to turn the heat lamp his way (or towards Kyle Neptune, take your pick) whether it's deserved or not. I think there's a little bit of that, but I saw plenty of introspection and acknowledgement of challenges. He starts the interview by saying that "coming in and taking over a new organization -- we're cleaning up a lot of things that just weren't really efficient in the Big East." That, to me, is saying that "he entered a dysfunctional program." Later he says that he's "had a year to learn 'what is Georgetown?'" -- again a subtle nod at challenges inherent in this particular place that may not be obvious from the outside. Regarding personnel, he says that "we had really good players, but it didn't work out well." And later that they've "had a year to recruit . . . to try and find out what's a fit and what's not a fit." I don't hear that as throwing anyone under the bus but rather as saying that they've got to do a better job recruiting to fit. Sure, he does say that we've upgraded talent year-to-year, but I think that has the advantage of being true and isn't necessarily a shot at anyone. I mean, if he had said "we had good players last year but the whole thing was my fault for not coaching well enough," that may have been chivalrous but there'd be some people who would read it as delusional and a bad sign for his talent evaluation.
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Post by 401to202hoya on Jul 19, 2024 13:42:09 GMT -5
Just my opinion, but Ed Cooley was not at his best in that interview. Blaming the talent for last season rings hollow when you realize that 12 of the 15 players that saw the court last season were recruited by, well, Ed Cooley. Unless someone is going to claim that Jay Heath, Wayne Bristol, and Ryan Mutombo somehow held that team back from an NCAA invitation, this staff selected and coached the players that finished 2-18 in the Big East and came within two game ending shots by DePaul of finishing 0-20. Perhaps he wanted to avoid the "we didn't have much depth" response, given he still has three open scholarships, but throwing those who are no longer in the program under a bus is bad form, and is simply way too early to open the proverbial first envelope of a struggling executive. He's too smart a coach than to go down this path. Very few people would have faulted Cooley for stating the obvious at the start: he entered a dysfunctional program and this may be a three or four year rebuild. He would not have lost any support by being frank and say that GU simply wasn't going to be good for the next few seasons but to be patient. Now, he's in the dilemma that if the Hoyas don't improve this season with another set of players he brought in, the press is going to turn the heat lamp his way (or towards Kyle Neptune, take your pick) whether it's deserved or not. I think there's a little bit of that, but I saw plenty of introspection and acknowledgement of challenges. He starts the interview by saying that "coming in and taking over a new organization -- we're cleaning up a lot of things that just weren't really efficient in the Big East." That, to me, is saying that "he entered a dysfunctional program." Later he says that he's "had a year to learn 'what is Georgetown?'" -- again a subtle nod at challenges inherent in this particular place that may not be obvious from the outside. Regarding personnel, he says that "we had really good players, but it didn't work out well." And later that they've "had a year to recruit . . . to try and find out what's a fit and what's not a fit." I don't hear that as throwing anyone under the bus but rather as saying that they've got to do a better job recruiting to fit. Sure, he does say that we've upgraded talent year-to-year, but I think that has the advantage of being true and isn't necessarily a shot at anyone. I mean, if he had said "we had good players last year but the whole thing was my fault for not coaching well enough," that may have been chivalrous but there'd be some people who would read it as delusional and a bad sign for his talent evaluation. Agreed. I didn't read Cooley's comments as necessarily blaming the players but more of an issue with roster construction, which falls on the coaching staff.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jul 19, 2024 13:57:50 GMT -5
...from the "current state of Hoya basketball" thread: thx read it. Didn't see blaming but that's subjective No? “Ed Cooley: Well, coming in and taking over a new organization — we’re cleaning up a lot of things that just weren’t really efficient in the Big East. We had some really good players, but it didn’t work out well. I think you’ve got to flush that. You’ve got to get not just players who want to come to Georgetown, but players that can play for me in the style that we want to play. I think that was the biggest deficiency last year. We just didn’t have the personalities that matched. We had to upgrade our personnel.” Who is responsible for picking those “really good players” who “didn’t have the personalities that matched” and who couldn’t play for him “in the style that we want to play”? What happens this year if it doesn’t work out? Is it the style? What happens if some players are not happy with their playing time? More “flush” of players? No teaching/developing/coaching who you recruit?
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Post by aleutianhoya on Jul 19, 2024 14:07:47 GMT -5
thx read it. Didn't see blaming but that's subjective No? “Ed Cooley: Well, coming in and taking over a new organization — we’re cleaning up a lot of things that just weren’t really efficient in the Big East. We had some really good players, but it didn’t work out well. I think you’ve got to flush that. You’ve got to get not just players who want to come to Georgetown, but players that can play for me in the style that we want to play. I think that was the biggest deficiency last year. We just didn’t have the personalities that matched. We had to upgrade our personnel.” Who is responsible for picking those “really good players” who “didn’t have the personalities that matched” and who couldn’t play for him “in the style that we want to play”? What happens this year if it doesn’t work out? Is it the style? What happens if some players are not happy with their playing time? More “flush” of players? No teaching/developing/coaching who you recruit? You're answering your own questions. He of course is responsible for picking the really good players. By acknowledging they were good and noting mismatching style and personalities, he's blaming himself. He's not saying it was the player's fault. And, uh, yes, there will be more flush if players aren't happy with playing time or Ed isn't happy with them or their chance for growth. That's life in 2024.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jul 19, 2024 14:19:16 GMT -5
No? “Ed Cooley: Well, coming in and taking over a new organization — we’re cleaning up a lot of things that just weren’t really efficient in the Big East. We had some really good players, but it didn’t work out well. I think you’ve got to flush that. You’ve got to get not just players who want to come to Georgetown, but players that can play for me in the style that we want to play. I think that was the biggest deficiency last year. We just didn’t have the personalities that matched. We had to upgrade our personnel.” Who is responsible for picking those “really good players” who “didn’t have the personalities that matched” and who couldn’t play for him “in the style that we want to play”? What happens this year if it doesn’t work out? Is it the style? What happens if some players are not happy with their playing time? More “flush” of players? No teaching/developing/coaching who you recruit? You're answering your own questions. He of course is responsible for picking the really good players. By acknowledging they were good and noting mismatching style and personalities, he's blaming himself. He's not saying it was the player's fault. Disagree, but anyway, if so many players were not personality-fits, then Cooley has a problem evaluating players in the free transfer-NIL era. As DFW wrote: “Blaming the talent for last season rings hollow when you realize that 12 of the 15 players that saw the court last season were recruited by, well, Ed Cooley.“ Talent includes personalities.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jul 19, 2024 15:19:49 GMT -5
Just my opinion, but Ed Cooley was not at his best in that interview. Blaming the talent for last season rings hollow when you realize that 12 of the 15 players that saw the court last season were recruited by, well, Ed Cooley. "Well, coming in and taking over a new organization — we’re cleaning up a lot of things that just weren’t really efficient in the Big East. We had some really good players, but it didn’t work out well. I think you’ve got to flush that. You’ve got to get not just players who want to come to Georgetown, but players that can play for me in the style that we want to play. I think that was the biggest deficiency last year. We just didn’t have the personalities that matched. We had to upgrade our personnel." He could have just said something banal like we didn't get it done. But I think everyone knows that he recruited the players; I don't know think he's ducking much by saying it was a bad fit. I do think he wants to avoid saying that they were bad, probably for everyone's sake, and the fit conversation is very real -- that team was not built at all like an Ed Cooley team. Oh, that's wrong. For one, there's a lot of fans on here that think two years was too long. And would the ticket office love that he writes off a year before it gets there? And most importantly, recruiting is momentum. You've got to fake it before it make, and if you don't make it, it won't matter if you told people it wasn't going to happen. Cooley was waaaaay too positive day one, but this is hardly a hype machine here. But you can't tell people that its a disaster and the incoming freshmen might never be on a good team (which I don't agree with anyway). This is a make or break year anyway. He can't afford not to improve -- the press, the fans, and the recruits, even if the admin is patient. Improve, and last year was an abberation caused by a coach coming in to a dead roster with no lead time and no NLI apparatus. Have another 2 win season, and the problem is either too big for Cooley to solve, or Cooley himself is causing it. The question is how much improvement is needed to keep positive momentum, retain players and keep recruiting. I don't know what the number is but we can't be the last three years.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jul 19, 2024 15:23:38 GMT -5
I think there's a little bit of that, but I saw plenty of introspection and acknowledgement of challenges. He starts the interview by saying that "coming in and taking over a new organization -- we're cleaning up a lot of things that just weren't really efficient in the Big East." That, to me, is saying that "he entered a dysfunctional program." Later he says that he's "had a year to learn 'what is Georgetown?'" -- again a subtle nod at challenges inherent in this particular place that may not be obvious from the outside. Regarding personnel, he says that "we had really good players, but it didn't work out well." And later that they've "had a year to recruit . . . to try and find out what's a fit and what's not a fit." I don't hear that as throwing anyone under the bus but rather as saying that they've got to do a better job recruiting to fit. Sure, he does say that we've upgraded talent year-to-year, but I think that has the advantage of being true and isn't necessarily a shot at anyone. I mean, if he had said "we had good players last year but the whole thing was my fault for not coaching well enough," that may have been chivalrous but there'd be some people who would read it as delusional and a bad sign for his talent evaluation. You said it better than I. Whether it was for the players or himself or both, there's little value in a detailed litigation of Massoud not being able to defend a can of tomato sauce. While I would love to hear whether he thought Massoud was better or this was simply the best that we could do, we know we aren't getting that in an interview. The real answer to last year was lack of talent and lack of fit and perhaps poor coaching. If you don't want to dump on the talent, and you don't agree with the poor coaching (or don't want to admit it) ... it's lack of fit.
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conshyhoya
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Post by conshyhoya on Jul 19, 2024 15:25:53 GMT -5
You're answering your own questions. He of course is responsible for picking the really good players. By acknowledging they were good and noting mismatching style and personalities, he's blaming himself. He's not saying it was the player's fault. Disagree, but anyway, if so many players were not personality-fits, then Cooley has a problem evaluating players in the free transfer-NIL era. As DFW wrote: “Blaming the talent for last season rings hollow when you realize that 12 of the 15 players that saw the court last season were recruited by, well, Ed Cooley.“ Talent includes personalities. It was his evaluating\recruiting but he had little to no impact on his initial NIL and now he had a full year to work on that. The quality of his two transfers this year seems to be better than what he brought in last year. Of course we need to see how they play along with his recruits from HS. It may turn out that he can't make the adjustment to NIL. We know he did a good job prior to NIL with transfers so I doubt it is an evaluation problem in general.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jul 19, 2024 16:55:16 GMT -5
No? “Ed Cooley: Well, coming in and taking over a new organization — we’re cleaning up a lot of things that just weren’t really efficient in the Big East. We had some really good players, but it didn’t work out well. I think you’ve got to flush that. You’ve got to get not just players who want to come to Georgetown, but players that can play for me in the style that we want to play. I think that was the biggest deficiency last year. We just didn’t have the personalities that matched. We had to upgrade our personnel.” Who is responsible for picking those “really good players” who “didn’t have the personalities that matched” and who couldn’t play for him “in the style that we want to play”? What happens this year if it doesn’t work out? Is it the style? What happens if some players are not happy with their playing time? More “flush” of players? No teaching/developing/coaching who you recruit? You're answering your own questions. He of course is responsible for picking the really good players. By acknowledging they were good and noting mismatching style and personalities, he's blaming himself. He's not saying it was the player's fault. And, uh, yes, there will be more flush if players aren't happy with playing time or Ed isn't happy with them or their chance for growth. That's life in 2024. It seems obvious he's substituting the word "personalities" for "talent", he spent last year telling us how bought in and hardworking the players were last season despite the poor results. It's also obvious the staff did a poor job coaching them up, I agree the team had a talent deficit but not enough to justify being the worst HM defensive team in the country. As the HC, he should have just taken all the blame & moved on. Organizationally wise, I'd love to hear about what they've "cleaned up" over the past year, from the outside looking in it looks like the same old Gtown.
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bluechi
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Post by bluechi on Jul 19, 2024 18:28:25 GMT -5
You can have problems if personalities don't fit.
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Post by hoyasaxaphone on Jul 21, 2024 12:42:34 GMT -5
And you can exacerbate problems if you encourage the wrong personalities and discourage the right ones. Epps had way too much free rein to play his game (even accounting for limited offensive options) and Cooley was not able to encourage serious defense. I think there was a lot of frustration that Cooley could have / should have addressed. Losing does that. And playing Massoud as much as he did was plain idiocy given the (even the limited) alternatives. No way the team should have won only 2 Big East games and was so horrific on defense. Coaches are supposed to make a difference. Cooley did not last year.
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bluechi
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Post by bluechi on Jul 21, 2024 20:26:18 GMT -5
And you can exacerbate problems if you encourage the wrong personalities and discourage the right ones. Epps had way too much free rein to play his game (even accounting for limited offensive options) and Cooley was not able to encourage serious defense. I think there was a lot of frustration that Cooley could have / should have addressed. Losing does that. And playing Massoud as much as he did was plain idiocy given the (even the limited) alternatives. No way the team should have won only 2 Big East games and was so horrific on defense. Coaches are supposed to make a difference. Cooley did not last year. i agree but i think cooley felt he had to do that. we'll see what happens this season.
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