24-25 Big East Discussion

[EtomicB]

The form on the jumper looks better..

[EtomicB]

The Glover stats jump out..

[hoyasaxa2003]

To Rick Pitino's credit, he basically uses the NY Post as a propaganda arm to market St. John's basketball. And I don't say that negatively either--he uses the local media very well. I haven't lived in the DC area in 2 decades at this point, but my understanding is no similar paper really exists in DC.

[FrazierFanatic]

Oct 8, 2024 8:00:16 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

The Glover stats jump out..

The one assist and three turnovers? The 0-3 from 2 point range?

[EtomicB]

Oct 8, 2024 9:49:43 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

To Rick Pitino's credit, he basically uses the NY Post as a propaganda arm to market St. John's basketball. And I don't say that negatively either--he uses the local media very well. I haven't lived in the DC area in 2 decades at this point, but my understanding is no similar paper really exists in DC.

In fairness, the Post heavily covered St. John's during Anderson's time too.

The Hoya exists in DC...

[EtomicB]

Oct 8, 2024 10:35:30 GMT -5 FrazierFanatic said:

Oct 8, 2024 8:00:16 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

The Glover stats jump out..

The one assist and three turnovers? The 0-3 from 2 point range?

Exactly right Frazier..

[EtomicB]

One of the narratives with the roster that Pitino put together is that it was short on shooters, since the two top newcomers, Kadary Richmond of Seton Hall and Smith, aren’t known for their outside shooting and the team lost quality shotmakers in Daniss Jenkins, Jordan Dingle and Nahiem Alleyne.

“I don’t think that’s a weakness. The only weakness is just them meshing with each other, because they all can play,” Pitino said. “It’s not like five guys meshing, it’s 11 guys meshing. [Shooting] is not a weakness. If anything, it’s been a strength so far. RJ has gotten a lot better. We’re going to get Kadary and Deivon shooting the ball much better with our player development, too.”

[SSHoya]

Oct 8, 2024 9:49:43 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

To Rick Pitino's credit, he basically uses the NY Post as a propaganda arm to market St. John's basketball. And I don't say that negatively either--he uses the local media very well. I haven't lived in the DC area in 2 decades at this point, but my understanding is no similar paper really exists in DC.

No tabloid rag in DC. Just Bezos's WaPo swinging to the right because he's hired former Murdoch journalists.

Hoyas (other than in 2019) don't merit much coverage in a town dominated by the Commandskins and to a lesser extent in the collegiate ranks, the Twerps.

[hoyas315]

[hoyaguy]

Oct 8, 2024 14:29:59 GMT -5 hoyas315 said:

Pitino loves to just make headlines. And people replying who don’t have a clue how valuations work are making me laugh. To claim that the BE leadership has no vision because they won’t add extra teams like Richmond, or St Thomas is wild. There’s a reason the football conferences including the new PAC 12 take their time, picking their targets for expansion. Gonzaga was realistically never gonna work, the WCC was not going to let just their basketball go and keep the non revenue sports.

Staying the current course is best. The new TV deal is good money-wise, and in the event of some change (UConn leaving or another conference collapsing) be ready with a gameplan.

[DFW HOYA]

Yet another reason why Rick Pitino would have been an extraordinarily bad fit at 20057. Such unvetted comments would not last long at Georgetown while such spit-balling is eaten up by the New York Post.

If the Redmen have a good year I can see him and Mike Repole start to make the case among their press surrogates that St. John's is a Gonzaga-like add for a midwestern conference.

[thedragon]

Oct 8, 2024 15:46:06 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Yet another reason why Rick Pitino would have been an extraordinarily bad fit at 20057. Such unvetted comments would not last long at Georgetown while such spit-balling is eaten up by the New York Post.

If the Redmen have a good year I can see him and Mike Repole start to make the case among their press surrogates that St. John's is a Gonzaga-like add for a midwestern conference.

I've said it before - but I'd add St. Louis now and then wait. It's a top 25 media market for tv purposes and fits the identity of the conference. Also provides a bit of a stopgap if Uconn bolts at some point to stay at a minimum of 11. Is a geographic natural rival for Creighton. And has some solid basketball history even if a bit dated (sounds familiar).

And then you wait to see what becomes of those also ran ACC schools that super leagues could leave out in the lurch like BC, Cuse, even Duke.

[hoyasaxa2003]

Oct 8, 2024 16:15:23 GMT -5 thedragon said:

Oct 8, 2024 15:46:06 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Yet another reason why Rick Pitino would have been an extraordinarily bad fit at 20057. Such unvetted comments would not last long at Georgetown while such spit-balling is eaten up by the New York Post.

If the Redmen have a good year I can see him and Mike Repole start to make the case among their press surrogates that St. John's is a Gonzaga-like add for a midwestern conference.

I've said it before - but I'd add St. Louis now and then wait. It's a top 25 media market for tv purposes and fits the identity of the conference. Also provides a bit of a stopgap if Uconn bolts at some point to stay at a minimum of 11. Is a geographic natural rival for Creighton. And has some solid basketball history even if a bit dated (sounds familiar).

And then you wait to see what becomes of those also ran ACC schools that super leagues could leave out in the lurch like BC, Cuse, even Duke.

I don't think we should add anyway, because of the last thing you said--let's wait and see what happens.

Why would we add Saint Louis to "stay at a minimum of 11." What is the benefit there? We did fine for several years at 10. There's no magic to 11, we added Connecticut because they were a good fit.

More importantly, Saint Louis has a mixed record of success. They have had a combination of good periods but also really atrocious ones, like in 2014-2017, and even last year they were ranked 199 on KenPom and went 5-13 in the much diminished A-10.

If we were going to add anybody, I think Dayton and VCU would both be better additions than Saint Louis. Dayton draws extremely well at home, and VCU has as good or better record of success than Saint Louis. And both of those schools fit the geographic footprint better too.

But, I say let's wait and see what happens. Quality is way more important than quantity. That's the problem with Pitino's idea. There aren't 10 more good basketball teams to add to make the Big East a super conference.

[thedragon]

Oct 9, 2024 0:47:35 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

Oct 8, 2024 16:15:23 GMT -5 thedragon said:

I've said it before - but I'd add St. Louis now and then wait. It's a top 25 media market for tv purposes and fits the identity of the conference. Also provides a bit of a stopgap if Uconn bolts at some point to stay at a minimum of 11. Is a geographic natural rival for Creighton. And has some solid basketball history even if a bit dated (sounds familiar).

And then you wait to see what becomes of those also ran ACC schools that super leagues could leave out in the lurch like BC, Cuse, even Duke.

I don't think we should add anyway, because of the last thing you said--let's wait and see what happens.

Why would we add Saint Louis to "stay at a minimum of 11." What is the benefit there? We did fine for several years at 10. There's no magic to 11, we added Connecticut because they were a good fit.

More importantly, Saint Louis has a mixed record of success. They have had a combination of good periods but also really atrocious ones, like in 2014-2017, and even last year they were ranked 199 on KenPom and went 5-13 in the much diminished A-10.

If we were going to add anybody, I think Dayton and VCU would both be better additions than Saint Louis. Dayton draws extremely well at home, and VCU has as good or better record of success than Saint Louis. And both of those schools fit the geographic footprint better too.

But, I say let's wait and see what happens. Quality is way more important than quantity. That's the problem with Pitino's idea. There aren't 10 more good basketball teams to add to make the Big East a super conference.

In today's world 2003, yours is an antiquated way of thinking.

1. Eleven teams allows for a full round Robin 20 game schedule. That should be the minimum in my estimation.

2. Geographic footprint is way down the list of priorities (ask Miami how they enjoyed having to go to Cal for a game). And basketball success is even muted some as the main factor. Media market Trumps all. Dayton media market compares to Des Moines barely in the top 75. Not to mention the BE already has an Ohio presence with Xavier. St. Louis is a top 25 market that compares to Indy, SLC, Pittsburgh etc.

[EtomicB]

[EtomicB]

Bingo!!

[hoyasaxa2003]

Oct 9, 2024 8:15:38 GMT -5 thedragon said:

Oct 9, 2024 0:47:35 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

I don't think we should add anyway, because of the last thing you said--let's wait and see what happens.

Why would we add Saint Louis to "stay at a minimum of 11." What is the benefit there? We did fine for several years at 10. There's no magic to 11, we added Connecticut because they were a good fit.

More importantly, Saint Louis has a mixed record of success. They have had a combination of good periods but also really atrocious ones, like in 2014-2017, and even last year they were ranked 199 on KenPom and went 5-13 in the much diminished A-10.

If we were going to add anybody, I think Dayton and VCU would both be better additions than Saint Louis. Dayton draws extremely well at home, and VCU has as good or better record of success than Saint Louis. And both of those schools fit the geographic footprint better too.

But, I say let's wait and see what happens. Quality is way more important than quantity. That's the problem with Pitino's idea. There aren't 10 more good basketball teams to add to make the Big East a super conference.

In today's world 2003, yours is an antiquated way of thinking.

1. Eleven teams allows for a full round Robin 20 game schedule. That should be the minimum in my estimation.

2. Geographic footprint is way down the list of priorities (ask Miami how they enjoyed having to go to Cal for a game). And basketball success is even muted some as the main factor. Media market Trumps all. Dayton media market compares to Des Moines barely in the top 75. Not to mention the BE already has an Ohio presence with Xavier. St. Louis is a top 25 market that compares to Indy, SLC, Pittsburgh etc.

1. We had a full round robin schedule with 10 teams. I realize that's an 18 team schedule, rather than 20, but what good is it if you add extra games against a university that is a 200-level team (I realize it's bold for me to say this given how horrible Georgetown has been)? Those are the type of OOC games that are easy to schedule.

2. Your "media market" focus, in my mind, is a secondary concern to what is more important--quality programs. The whole "media market" thing was considered a big deal when you had local broadcasts or these cable networks trying to get carriage of their then-new cable networks (SEC Network, etc.). Given the decline of traditional cable television, that the Big East doesn't have its own cable network, and the fact that most games are on national TV anyway, the size of a specific market is less important in my mind. People want to see winning basketball, and I think that's the most important factor. Look at Gonzaga. Spokane is the 67th largest media market, yet interest in them is high because of their success. Would anybody seriously argue in favor of St. Louis over Gonzaga because of media market size? I don't think so.

I just do not think St. Louis is good enough to warrant addition now. They've made the NCAA tournament 4 times in the last 20 years. They really do not have much of a record of success, something that Dayton and VCU do have in the last two decades. That said, all in all, if you were going to add a program, I can see the argment for St. Louis. I just don't think it's compelling enough given that some football schools with good basketball programs are likely to be left out in the cold in the coming decade, and I'd much rather wait for that to shake out than rush to take St. Louis now when it's now needed. Even on the scheduling point, my guess is St. Louis (or Dayton, or VCU) would jump at the chance to join the Big East. So as long as we have 11, and we aren't desperate to schedule games, there is no need to rush.

[EtomicB]

[hoyas315]

[EtomicB]

Hard to bet against Holloway fielding a competitive team..

“The level of intensity is just…kind of more here,” Middleton said Tuesday, four weeks from the season opener. “More is required of you. You have to be the best person, the best player you can be at all times. You’re held to a higher standard.

“At first you kind of fight it a little bit, but then you know – it’s for you.”


“It’s anybody who has the willingness and courage to defeat the scared – the scared is people who don’t want to speak up to their teammates because they’re worried about feelings,” he said. “We’re playing basketball and trying to win games at the highest level.”

With so many new players there’s a lot of mystery surrounding this group, but Middleton offers one assurance for fans.

“Practice is too competitive for us not to get better,” he said.