thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Mar 20, 2024 10:56:03 GMT -5
Serious question, not related to the current discussion: how many more rebuilds and more empty seats will it take before Georgetown University says "enough"? I think this scenario is closer than we think it could be. Based on all of the NIl resources they've set up and the high salary were paying a staff? Alongside many statements over years by AD and Prez of the importance of Gtown to the BE conference? I get the frustration. But any evidence out there would in no way point to a program "closer than we think" to the University saying 'enough'.
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iowa80
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Post by iowa80 on Mar 20, 2024 10:56:59 GMT -5
Just so you know Trilly just said some more people are leaving. Seeing as though Epps and Fielder were the only ones to post NIL stuff. That should tell you something Keeping Epps and jettisoning Rowan tells you a lot about Cooley's evaluation skills. They both get abused on D, they are both turnover prone, but Epps is better on the offensive end?
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Mar 20, 2024 10:57:50 GMT -5
I think this scenario is closer than we think it could be. Based on all of the NIl resources they've set up and the high salary were paying a staff? Alongside many statements over years by AD and Prez of the importance of Gtown to the BE conference? I get the frustration. But any evidence out there would in no way point to a program "closer than we think" to the University saying 'enough'. How much longer do you think DeGioia remains in his job? How much longer do you think Lee Reed remains in his job? How much longer do you think Val Ackerman remains in her job?
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Mar 20, 2024 10:58:35 GMT -5
Serious question, not related to the current discussion: how many more rebuilds and more empty seats will it take before Georgetown University says "enough"? And how do they say “enough”? When Jack DeGioia is finally given his retirement papers? Jack D has hung on to his position for 20+ years now - 3x the average tenure of a university president. Regardless of whether you ascribe responsibility to him for the state of the basketball program, i.e., the doomed Ewing extension, his departure would be a logical point to have a complete re-evaluation of the basketball program.
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Mar 20, 2024 10:59:03 GMT -5
Based on all of the NIl resources they've set up and the high salary were paying a staff? Alongside many statements over years by AD and Prez of the importance of Gtown to the BE conference? I get the frustration. But any evidence out there would in no way point to a program "closer than we think" to the University saying 'enough'. How much longer do you think DeGioia remains in his job? How much longer do you think Lee Reed remains in his job? How much longer do you think Val Ackerman remains in her job? JD - not very long. I believe he's already way over the average (maybe longest ever?) for a GU Prez. LR and VA. Likely for the next 5 years +. They're both in early 60s and likely at their last stops.
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Mar 20, 2024 11:00:43 GMT -5
I thought Rowan would be part of the future. He showed glimpses but struggled at times too.
It does make the lumps last year seem fruitless if we aren’t going to develop guys, but I’m cautiously optimistic that the roster will look better in May than it did at the end of the season. I’ll wait to reserve judgment until the slots are full and the carousel stops.
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TC
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Post by TC on Mar 20, 2024 11:01:20 GMT -5
Serious question, not related to the current discussion: how many more rebuilds and more empty seats will it take before Georgetown University says "enough"? If Jack DeGioia wants his legacy to be destroying the basketball program through complete mismanagement, have at it. No one's going to remember the hospital deal. It'll be this. Otherwise, maybe we let someone who actually has coached bring in an freshman actual class and see how that goes.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Mar 20, 2024 11:02:19 GMT -5
How much longer do you think DeGioia remains in his job? How much longer do you think Lee Reed remains in his job? How much longer do you think Val Ackerman remains in her job? JD - not very long. I believe he's already way over the average (maybe longest ever?) for a GU Prez. LR and VA. Likely for the next 5 years + Reed's 61, I'll take the under on 5 more years at Georgetown for him, particularly after DeGioia leaves. A new President will look at the athletic department under Reed and probably want new blood. Ackerman has been in her role for a long time, I'd be surprised if the Big East schools allow her to remain in place for 5 more years (particularly once people like DeGioia are no longer around).
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 20, 2024 11:02:33 GMT -5
How much longer do you think DeGioia remains in his job? How much longer do you think Lee Reed remains in his job? How much longer do you think Val Ackerman remains in her job? JD - not very long. I believe he's already way over the average (maybe longest ever?) for a GU Prez. LR and VA. Likely for the next 5 years +. They're both in early 60s and likely at their last stops. JD is on his 23rd year in power. Longest before him? 13 years.
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Mar 20, 2024 11:04:24 GMT -5
DePaul has been worse for much longer. Have they cut their program?
DFW - you've posed similar questions after Jt3. During the Ewing years. I think for a while you predicted we could be a Patriot league team by now (correct me if im mistaken - but i thought that was mentioned in the last BE reorg conversation). And yet our investment in the program has only increased not decreased.
This is message board nonsense imo. The school has given you nothing but the opposite evidence.
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Mar 20, 2024 11:08:01 GMT -5
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Mar 20, 2024 11:10:47 GMT -5
I almost read this as he didn’t really want to leave but Cooley’s candor on PT & money forced his hand to leave.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 20, 2024 11:14:41 GMT -5
Serious question, not related to the current discussion: how many more rebuilds and more empty seats will it take before Georgetown University says "enough"? To answer your question, what does Georgetown saying "enough" mean? Leaving the Big East? Not spending money on basketball? Proactively moving to another conference? DePaul has been way worse than Georgetown for way longer, and yet they are still trucking along. I could easily see Georgetown trying to keep the budget down in the future, but otherwise, unless Georgetown wants to move all of its sports to a different conference (which would be a huge deal), I cannot see Georgetown basketball leaving the Big East. And as long as we are in the Big East, some commitment is necessary. Also, presumably Ed Cooley signed at least a 5 year deal last year. That would take him through 2028. That money is already committed, and there will likely be a new media deal that will hopefully give each Big East school more money in that period. So, there's no reason for Georgetown to give up. And if donors really are willing to give millions in NIL, then it seems to me there is still plenty of appetite. Maybe not forever, but I don't think we are close to the level of giving up. I am sure you will give me the exception to the rule, but I cannot think of any high-major program in the last 20-30 years that has WILLINGLY left a major conference, or just given up (like St. Francis did, for example). As I said, DePaul stinks and has far less money and resources than we do, and yet they keep trucking along.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 20, 2024 11:17:05 GMT -5
I agree this year was a mess, and not much of an improvement on Ewing. Given Cooley's past record, it is highly unlikely that he will turn out to be the second coming of Coach Patrick Ewing unless he's lost all coaching and recruiting ability since leaving Providence. And if he has, that would make me wonder if Georgetown is the problem. As has been stated many times, Cooley is vastly overrated by the Georgetown fan base. He has a losing Big East record when he's not coaching Providence vs. Georgetown. We could've given Dan Hurley a try - instead we went with Ewing. You think Dan Hurley would be failing at Georgetown? It's not a Georgetown problem. It's a Georgetown leadership and Georgetown decision making problem. In my mind, Georgetown leadership and Georgetown decision-making ARE Georgetown for this purpose. Sure, if we could get someone from the outside who knew what they were doing and wouldn't give someone like Patrick Ewing a totally undeserved contract extension, we'd be better off. But, that's the fantasy land where Georgetown has good leadership which hasn't been true for decades. I don't see any reason to think, even if DeGioia eventually retires, that his replacement would necessarily be more competent, particularly when it comes to decision-making on sports.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 20, 2024 11:18:08 GMT -5
The bigger issue with the program is will we hold Cooley accountable (at least after next year if not dramatic turnaround) for the terrible performance or just blow another 10mm/yr overall on a program that currently adds little to the university. Also, the Univ board should hold JD accountable on the same timeframe as Cooley. What does holding him accountable look like? Firing him and paying out 3 years of his salary? That money is committed. It's not like we can just decide on a whim to move in a different direction and not pay the money. Cooley clearly knows his performance this year was garbage. He's also doing his best to get the NIL money together and make a big difference next year. Will it work? No clue, but I am not sure what else can be done for accountability. If Cooley was blaming everybody but himself like Patrick Ewing did for 5 years, you might have a point. After all, you cannot fix a problem you don't see. But, Cooley sees the problem. And he's trying to fix it. What more "accountability" do you want? And let's not get into the whole "give his salary back" stupidity, please.
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hoopsmccan
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Post by hoopsmccan on Mar 20, 2024 11:18:50 GMT -5
Other than better post-loss press conferences and sound bites, hard to see that anything has changed from the prior staff. hm Well, one staff had several years and the other has had one year in the wake of the previous disaster. I guess we are in agreement. Not much has changed, but this staff should get some time to figure out what the previous staff never could. hm
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Mar 20, 2024 11:21:23 GMT -5
DePaul has been worse for much longer. Have they cut their program? DFW - you've posed similar questions after Jt3. During the Ewing years. I think for a while you predicted we could be a Patriot league team by now (correct me if im mistaken - but i thought that was mentioned in the last BE reorg conversation). And yet our investment in the program has only increased not decreased. I have never argued for the Patriot League. As some know, I'm not exactly a fan of the PL in football, either.
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concord
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Post by concord on Mar 20, 2024 11:28:31 GMT -5
The team was atrocious this year. A complete embarrassment! I would be in favor of whatever has to change to improve to an even half decent level next year. If that means total roster turnover, I will accept it. Even if on principle I hate to see a player like Brumbaugh departing, it would be coherent with an upgraded backcourt, which the team desperately needs. We won't really know what we're looking at outcomes-wise until we get through all this transfer portal madness. In this moment however, I'm more stressed about losing a chunk of our coaching staff to Hampton than any specific transfer departures. We need all hands on deck to recruit some dang talent to this roster.
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iowa80
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Post by iowa80 on Mar 20, 2024 11:36:12 GMT -5
I agree this year was a mess, and not much of an improvement on Ewing. Given Cooley's past record, it is highly unlikely that he will turn out to be the second coming of Coach Patrick Ewing unless he's lost all coaching and recruiting ability since leaving Providence. And if he has, that would make me wonder if Georgetown is the problem. As has been stated many times, Cooley is vastly overrated by the Georgetown fan base. He has a losing Big East record when he's not coaching Providence vs. Georgetown. Honestly, one of your best. Of course, it wasn't true when he was hired. And we'll just overlook some of his accomplishments while at PC.
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saxagael
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Post by saxagael on Mar 20, 2024 11:49:38 GMT -5
I almost read this as he didn’t really want to leave but Cooley’s candor on PT & money forced his hand to leave. This is one I really didn't expect. LIke you said Cooley laying out PT (not so sure about money) pushed him. It will be interesting to see who is coming in on ball to push playing time.
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