Thomas Sorber '24 commits to Georgetown

[MCIGuy]

May 8, 2024 19:43:10 GMT -5 thedragon said:

There's just no way Queen deserves to be 30 spots higher than Sorber. Oh well.

A little late with my response but….this!

[MCIGuy]

Now we’re in my wheelhouse: GU Big Man Discussion.

Reading some of the comments I am taken aback with how much of it I disagree with. So here’s my two cents on the GU bigs I witnessed first hand in real time. I’ll start with Alonzo Mourning.

Zo remains my favorite Hoya of all time. He is the one who bought me into the fold of Hoya fandom as a youngin. His first Hoya team remains the best Hoya basketball team that I have followed (even if it didn’t make the Final Four). I followed Zo from Georgetown to the pros and tried to watch all of his NBA games that I was able to consume. With that out of the way I say with confidence that Alonzo had a very limited/subpar post game. Its painful for me to point out, but I keep it real. Zo did not have a left hand, so he always went one direction. He didn’t have a drop step. Or a quick spin move. Or a turn around jumper. Rarely did he exhibit an up and under. His best weapon when he had his back to the basket was a catch move in which he took one to two dribbles and put up a running hook with his right hand. But Zo lacked a go-to move on offense which was unthinkable for a guy who was the shortest of al starting centers for that golden age of NBA big men in the 1990s and early 2000s. It was such a detriment for him that NBA teams were able to take away his right hand and dared him to score. The Bulls in particular took joy in this. Just like in college, the more defenses figured out Alonzo, the less smooth he looked on offense. As a result during those peak years of the Heat with a young Alonzo, Tim Hardaway became the go-to-guy in the post season.

So how did Zo get to score so many points with the Hoyas and in the NBA? Well, he was quick, strong, had pretty good hands, could finish in traffic and most of all he was tenacious. He willed himself to get buckets and if that didn’t work he put so much pressure on the defense that he got fouled. His senior season at Georgetown he must have set some sort of record for the most free throw attempts because he lived at the free throw line (it also was helpful that he could make free throws). The game is no longer played like that and refs no longer allow bigs to keep hurling themselves towards the hoop to pick up fouls. Mourning occasionally displayed a jumpshot. But while it was more reliable than, say, Greg Monroe’s, Zo didn’t try using it enough for it to be considered a weapon that defenses had to pay to much attention to (even though his most famous basket in the NBA came off such a shot). At Georgetown Mourning would at times pull out some scoring moves that wowed you (like his game as a junior at home against Duke) but those showcases were scarce. To use a common modern day basketball jargon, Zo had no bag.

As an athlete Zo was fantastic. He could really run the court. He could get off the floor quickly, getting two jumps to other guys’ one. But he was by no means an explosive leaper nor was he at the athletic level of Ewing (whose highlights I came by later), David Robinson, Chris Webber or his fellow 1988 high school class member Shawn Kemp.

Besides his warrior mentality what set Mourning apart was his uncanny ability to block shots. Pound for pound, inch for inch, a better shot blocker never lived, in particular not at the collegiate level. His timing was almost supernatural and what made it all the more impressive was that he wasn’t as tall as most of the other supreme shotblockers in the history of the game. If he was not injured for much of his junior season and even more crucial, if he did not have to share the court with Mutombo for two years that led to him playing further away from the basket on defense, his shot blocking record in the NCAA would have never been touched.

But his effectiveness in the halfcourt on offense was curtailed by his average skills. Take his passing as an example. He would get an assist only if he was double-teamed and kicked the ball back out to the teammate who was nearest to him and open ONLY because his defender had left to double on Zo in the first place. But Zo throwing a cross court pass from the post to really throw a defense off balance was unheard of. Took him way too long to learn how to pass to cutters as well. In his defense he learned at the feet of John Thompson Jr. JT ensured his big men did the meat and potatoes or bread and butter stuff: stay close to the basket for a score, rebound, block shots. Thompson was not teaching his guys the finer art of footwork on the baseline, honing their passing skills and, most of all, being a threat facing the basket. In fact it was known Thompson had little patience for his centers or even power forwards taking jumpshots. Ewing wasn’t freed up to become that type of guy until he matriculated to the pros. Zo’s offseason developments never led to him returning to a new season with new skills Zo used the offseason to get physically stronger by building his muscles.

Alonzo ranks among the top four Hoyas whom I watched while they were still in a Georgetown uniform. I am not about to get crazy and say Sorber will reach those heights. But there are certain things I think the kid is better at than ZO when he arrived on the Georgetown campus. This includes a better jumpshot and better passing ability, although that may be unfair considering bigs in this day are required to have more of those skills. But Sorber has better footwork in the paint than Zo did stepping until the college stage. He has an actual drop step. And in the Fairfield game his drop step move that led to his first score on the other side of the basket and his second half catch in which he used a reverse pivot to finish off the glass are two examples that show a guy who is on an accelerated track compared to other underclassmen. Of course its only two games so its merely small sample size.

I was criticized by some of the usual suspects on Hoya Report when I claimed Sorber had better footwork than Zo. One person who pushed back was Ron who made a point to telling us on the site that his Philly hoops insider thought that Sorber was overrated and Hoya fans were setting themselves up for disappointment. But Ron sat in on a dozen or more practices from summer to fall and was blown away by Sorber. He saw for himself that the kid had the goods.

Apologies for the length on this one. But this was about Zo and he is a passionate subject for me, even if it means discussing his shortcomings.

[bluegray79]

If this is true -- and I really want it to be true -- then the freshman class may be the first class in a while to be part of the what we hope a growing buzz and new fan base on campus for the men's basketball team. Yet another reason for hope and optimism in year 2 of the Cooley Era.

Counting on the Jesuits now to keep Thomas humble and happy. But this could be the start of something good...!

[MCIGuy]

Nov 12, 2024 17:58:25 GMT -5 madhoya said:

Nov 12, 2024 16:01:59 GMT -5 smokeyjack said:

Monroe was more polished but not nearly as athletic in my opinion. Sorber was scandalously underrated. Agree with the folks who say Mourning is the closest comp. Sorber is longer and way more bouncy than Othella, who was 6-8 and thicker. The Govan comps are wild - love Show Out Jess, but he was a stiff comparatively. And Sweets was a broader Othella with better hands. Lacked length and had ZERO bounce.

Not saying he's going to be 'Zo, but that's the best comp athletically and for his build. Long, lean-muscled and bouncy with the frame of an Adonis. 

I have to disagree about Sweetney with ZERO bounce… He had the 2nd most dunks in hoya history playing only 3 years..He's also rank has the best Offensive low post player to ever wear a hoya Jersey…

Problem is you can count the number of Sweetney dunks on two hands. If he had true bounce he would have posterized people much more.

[concord]

Nov 13, 2024 10:23:44 GMT -5 MCIGuy said:

His senior season at Georgetown he must have set some sort of record for the most free throw attempts because he lived at the free throw line (it also was helpful that he could make free throws). The game is no longer played like that and refs no longer allow bigs to keep hurling themselves towards the hoop to pick up fouls.

Indeed, Mourning's 359 FTA in 1991-1992 remains a school record. Sweetney came closest in 2002-2003 with 336, then Iverson in 1995-1996 with 317. Zo's 272 made FTs in 91-92 is also a school record. Zo's 91-92 season is tied for 19th all time in FTA among NCAA players.

Interestingly, Zach Edey attempted 436 FTs last season (that's 2nd all time and by far the most this century, only Hansbrough's 377 in 07-08 comes close). So perhaps the age of the big man who racks up a ton of FTAs isn't quite dead. Edey's 8.9 FTA/40 his freshman year seems doable for Sorber, who is at 10.7 FTA/40 [incredibly tiny sample size, obviously]. Fingers crossed since he can clearly convert FTs once he earns them.

[MCIGuy]

Nov 13, 2024 12:29:12 GMT -5 concord said:

Nov 13, 2024 10:23:44 GMT -5 MCIGuy said:

His senior season at Georgetown he must have set some sort of record for the most free throw attempts because he lived at the free throw line (it also was helpful that he could make free throws). The game is no longer played like that and refs no longer allow bigs to keep hurling themselves towards the hoop to pick up fouls.

Indeed, Mourning's 359 FTA in 1991-1992 remains a school record. Sweetney came closest in 2002-2003 with 336, then Iverson in 1995-1996 with 317. Zo's 272 made FTs in 91-92 is also a school record. Zo's 91-92 season is tied for 19th all time in FTA among NCAA players.

Interestingly, Zach Edey attempted 436 FTs last season (that's 2nd all time and by far the most this century, only Hansbrough's 377 in 07-08 comes close). So perhaps the age of the big man who racks up a ton of FTAs isn't quite dead. Edey's 8.9 FTA/40 his freshman year seems doable for Sorber, who is at 10.7 FTA/40 [incredibly tiny sample size, obviously]. Fingers crossed since he can clearly convert FTs once he earns them.

Interesting numbers regarding Edey. I wonder how close Zo would have come to that if he was able to be the sole center for all his four seasons.

[Elvado]

Nov 13, 2024 12:57:29 GMT -5 MCIGuy said:

Nov 13, 2024 12:29:12 GMT -5 concord said:

Indeed, Mourning's 359 FTA in 1991-1992 remains a school record. Sweetney came closest in 2002-2003 with 336, then Iverson in 1995-1996 with 317. Zo's 272 made FTs in 91-92 is also a school record. Zo's 91-92 season is tied for 19th all time in FTA among NCAA players.

Interestingly, Zach Edey attempted 436 FTs last season (that's 2nd all time and by far the most this century, only Hansbrough's 377 in 07-08 comes close). So perhaps the age of the big man who racks up a ton of FTAs isn't quite dead. Edey's 8.9 FTA/40 his freshman year seems doable for Sorber, who is at 10.7 FTA/40 [incredibly tiny sample size, obviously]. Fingers crossed since he can clearly convert FTs once he earns them.

Interesting numbers regarding Edey. I wonder how close Zo would have come to that if he was able to be the sole center for all his four seasons.

Don’t forget the foot injury which cost him major time his junior season. He only had 188 FTA that year after 281 as a sophomore and before 359 as a senior.

[MCIGuy]

Dikembe Mutombo:
Offensive capabilities were limited. Footwork was pedestrian. Dribbling was not an option. Shooting jumpers was almost an impossibility. Passing? Not great. But he had really good hands, was a very good athlete, had incredible stamina and was VERY tall. Scoring came off runs off the break, putback slamdunks following teammates’ misses and what I like to call his Drop Hook. The Drop Hook meant he would get the ball close to the hoop, lifts his arm as high as possible and lets the ball drop into the hoop. Never got tired; he and Iverson had the two best internal batteries of all Georgetown players. Was not as instinctively good a shot blocker as Zo but was an all-time great at blocking shots himself. Was a better overall defender in the paint than Zo because he didn’t fall for pump fakes and was able to stay grounded forcing people to have to shoot over his 7’2 frame.


Don Reid:
Exceeded expectations and eventually became an NBA guy. In college his offense remained extremely limited. In his final two years was able to hit a basic hook shot from time to time, and he had a very quick and explosive leap that allowed him to finish alley-oops. Easily an above average athlete for his size and bulk and this helped him become a good defender, which was his primary value. Solid rebounder. Not a threat at all to make a jump shot and lacked any creativity as a passer. Pretty good hands.


Othella Harrington:
Another fave of mine. Had the misfortune of being seen as the next in line following Patrick and Alonzo. Despite his unbelievable averages in points and rebounds in high school, his game didn’t completely translate to the college level, especially in how Thompson used him (more on that later). Shot out of the gate impressively when he first suited up for the Hoyas. He was immediately a fantastic scorer and rebounder. A better passer than Zo. Not very athletic but pretty good hands and possessed nimble footwork. Got off to a very promising start in Big East play too. In particular I recall that game at UConn in which he put on an offensive display the likes that I rarely saw from a Hoya big man. This included one move in second half in which he was near the baseline, halfway between the paint and the three-point line. With his back to the basket he did a quick succession of head fakes before turning around and immediately lofting the prettiest jumper that swished cleanly into the net causing the Husky crowd and the game announcers to gasp. With that I thought he was on the verge of a very special, special season and he would take Georgetown along for the ride. But all that ended in the following game at UNLV where JR Rider and the Rebels gave Thompson’s Hoyas arguably its most embarrassing, nationally televised drumming up to that time. Both Harrington and the Hoyas appeared to lose much of its mojos after that butt kicking.

One uncomfortable truth about Othella was obvious when I first saw him play in the McDonald All American game and when I first saw him in the KL: he was clearly not his listed 6’10. He may not have even been 6’8 out of shoes. He didn’t have great lift either so getting shots off over taller and more athletic bigs would increasingly become a problem. While Harrington ended up being one of the nation’s best freshmen, he would never surpass or even reach the 16.8 points and the 8.8 rebounds again for his final three seasons. He wasn’t helped much by the two lead guards who bookended his Hoya career. His first two years he shared the court with a guard who could not shoot, was not a danger to score and therefore could not draw defenders away from O or set up O for easy uncontested baskets. In his final two years he would play alongside an all-time great guard who wasn’t very good at passing and didn’t seem to fit with Harrington’s more halfcourt style, or even realize Harrington was on the court. But what hurt Harrington the most was how Thompson took too long to figure out that O was not a true center and should not be kept in the paint all game long as if he was Patrick and Alonzo. He was better at being somewhere ten to twelve feet from the basket where he could face up and deploy his jumper. The more Thompson kept him in the paint, where his shots were often swatted, the more O seemed to lose those faceup skills rather than refining them.

On defense he was too often a non-factor.

Jahidi White:
Top 50 recruit with an intimidating physique, looked like a 6’9 bouncer. Amazing Strength. A space-eater who could shock with how quickly and explosively he could get off the ground for dunks ala some poor, poor man’s Mini Shaq. An effective shot-blocker. That’s where the good stuff stops. Hands were just above horrible. Because of this all his dunks had to be with two hands. Foul prone. No true offensive moves other than dunks off of feeds. Passing was abysmal. He started all 30 games of his junior season and complied 14 total assists. Was a sub 50% free-throw shooter. May have never made a jump shot while a Hoya. But back in the day this did not stop bigs from being chose by the NBA. White had at least five years in the league.

At this juncture, the closest comparison to Sorber from this group is Harrington, from an offensive standpoint only. Sorber has the edge so far as height, bulk, wingspan and passing. He has also hit a three-pointer which is something I don’t Othella even attempted for his first couple of years at Georgetown. Harrington was better with the face-up, the fakes (which worked early on) and spin moves.

I don’t think any of these guys compare to Sorber defensively. Obviously Mutombo is an elite defender whom Sorber would have a tough time matching.

[HoyaFanNY]

Nov 13, 2024 14:05:26 GMT -5 Elvado said:

Nov 13, 2024 12:57:29 GMT -5 MCIGuy said:

Interesting numbers regarding Edey. I wonder how close Zo would have come to that if he was able to be the sole center for all his four seasons.

Don’t forget the foot injury which cost him major time his junior season. He only had 188 FTA that year after 281 as a sophomore and before 359 as a senior.

EXACTLY! The foot injury robbed Zo and that team of a great season. He destroyed Duke/Laettner in the win at the Cap Center before injuring his foot late in that game. Zo didn't start regaining his form until the BET. I still remember Churchwell missing the layup vs UNLV late in a very close game.

[MCIGuy]

Nov 13, 2024 14:05:26 GMT -5 Elvado said:

Nov 13, 2024 12:57:29 GMT -5 MCIGuy said:

Interesting numbers regarding Edey. I wonder how close Zo would have come to that if he was able to be the sole center for all his four seasons.

Don’t forget the foot injury which cost him major time his junior season. He only had 188 FTA that year after 281 as a sophomore and before 359 as a senior.

Oh, I have not forgotten. I made mention of it in my writeup above. Even when he returned he was not truly 100% for the rest of the season.

[jwp91]

Nov 13, 2024 14:05:26 GMT -5 Elvado said:

Nov 13, 2024 12:57:29 GMT -5 MCIGuy said:

Interesting numbers regarding Edey. I wonder how close Zo would have come to that if he was able to be the sole center for all his four seasons.

Don’t forget the foot injury which cost him major time his junior season. He only had 188 FTA that year after 281 as a sophomore and before 359 as a senior.

That injury came in the final moments of the Duke victory at the Cap Center in the Big East / ACC Challenge in early December. That injury robbed us of what should have been another amazing season.....not that I am still bitter about it.

[78HOYA78]

Glad to see Sorber and Julius on the floor at the same time. They will be a handful as the season progresses along with Fielder.

[jackofjoy]

Nov 13, 2024 14:45:08 GMT -5 MCIGuy said:

Dikembe Mutombo:
Offensive capabilities were limited. Footwork was pedestrian. Dribbling was not an option. Shooting jumpers was almost an impossibility. Passing? Not great. But he had really good hands, was a very good athlete, had incredible stamina and was VERY tall. Scoring came off runs off the break, putback slamdunks following teammates’ misses and what I like to call his Drop Hook. The Drop Hook meant he would get the ball close to the hoop, lifts his arm as high as possible and lets the ball drop into the hoop. Never got tired; he and Iverson had the two best internal batteries of all Georgetown players. Was not as instinctively good a shot blocker as Zo but was an all-time great at blocking shots himself. Was a better overall defender in the paint than Zo because he didn’t fall for pump fakes and was able to stay grounded forcing people to have to shoot over his 7’2 frame.


Don Reid:
Exceeded expectations and eventually became an NBA guy. In college his offense remained extremely limited. In his final two years was able to hit a basic hook shot from time to time, and he had a very quick and explosive leap that allowed him to finish alley-oops. Easily an above average athlete for his size and bulk and this helped him become a good defender, which was his primary value. Solid rebounder. Not a threat at all to make a jump shot and lacked any creativity as a passer. Pretty good hands.


Othella Harrington:
Another fave of mine. Had the misfortune of being seen as the next in line following Patrick and Alonzo. Despite his unbelievable averages in points and rebounds in high school, his game didn’t completely translate to the college level, especially in how Thompson used him (more on that later). Shot out of the gate impressively when he first suited up for the Hoyas. He was immediately a fantastic scorer and rebounder. A better passer than Zo. Not very athletic but pretty good hands and possessed nimble footwork. Got off to a very promising start in Big East play too. In particular I recall that game at UConn in which he put on an offensive display the likes that I rarely saw from a Hoya big man. This included one move in second half in which he was near the baseline, halfway between the paint and the three-point line. With his back to the basket he did a quick succession of head fakes before turning around and immediately lofting the prettiest jumper that swished cleanly into the net causing the Husky crowd and the game announcers to gasp. With that I thought he was on the verge of a very special, special season and he would take Georgetown along for the ride. But all that ended in the following game at UNLV where JR Rider and the Rebels gave Thompson’s Hoyas arguably its most embarrassing, nationally televised drumming up to that time. Both Harrington and the Hoyas appeared to lose much of its mojos after that butt kicking.

One uncomfortable truth about Othella was obvious when I first saw him play in the McDonald All American game and when I first saw him in the KL: he was clearly not his listed 6’10. He may not have even been 6’8 out of shoes. He didn’t have great lift either so getting shots off over taller and more athletic bigs would increasingly become a problem. While Harrington ended up being one of the nation’s best freshmen, he would never surpass or even reach the 16.8 points and the 8.8 rebounds again for his final three seasons. He wasn’t helped much by the two lead guards who bookended his Hoya career. His first two years he shared the court with a guard who could not shoot, was not a danger to score and therefore could not draw defenders away from O or set up O for easy uncontested baskets. In his final two years he would play alongside an all-time great guard who wasn’t very good at passing and didn’t seem to fit with Harrington’s more halfcourt style, or even realize Harrington was on the court. But what hurt Harrington the most was how Thompson took too long to figure out that O was not a true center and should not be kept in the paint all game long as if he was Patrick and Alonzo. He was better at being somewhere ten to twelve feet from the basket where he could face up and deploy his jumper. The more Thompson kept him in the paint, where his shots were often swatted, the more O seemed to lose those faceup skills rather than refining them.

On defense he was too often a non-factor.

Jahidi White:
Top 50 recruit with an intimidating physique, looked like a 6’9 bouncer. Amazing Strength. A space-eater who could shock with how quickly and explosively he could get off the ground for dunks ala some poor, poor man’s Mini Shaq. An effective shot-blocker. That’s where the good stuff stops. Hands were just above horrible. Because of this all his dunks had to be with two hands. Foul prone. No true offensive moves other than dunks off of feeds. Passing was abysmal. He started all 30 games of his junior season and complied 14 total assists. Was a sub 50% free-throw shooter. May have never made a jump shot while a Hoya. But back in the day this did not stop bigs from being chose by the NBA. White had at least five years in the league.

At this juncture, the closest comparison to Sorber from this group is Harrington, from an offensive standpoint only. Sorber has the edge so far as height, bulk, wingspan and passing. He has also hit a three-pointer which is something I don’t Othella even attempted for his first couple of years at Georgetown. Harrington was better with the face-up, the fakes (which worked early on) and spin moves.

I don’t think any of these guys compare to Sorber defensively. Obviously Mutombo is an elite defender whom Sorber would have a tough time matching.

Will add to this b/c I find it interesting to see the mid 90s to mid 2000s NBA valuing of bigs especially compared to now:

Years in NBA and Total Salaries:
Mourning: 15 yrs, $144mm
Mutumbo: 18, $144mm (did not realize how eerily similar to Zo, those early aughts when teams were throwing $15mm per to starting bigs were crazy, even if $15mm is an ok 6th man now)
Harrington: 12, $25mm
White: 7, $25mm (!) - somebody get me Jahidi's agent or MJ's checkbook ... Wiz paid him $4-6mm per year for averages of 4 and 4
Reid: 8, $6mm - pretty good for someone you never thought would have sniffed the NBA when he was at Georgetown

[miracles87]

Nov 13, 2024 10:23:44 GMT -5 MCIGuy said:

Now we’re in my wheelhouse: GU Big Man Discussion.

Reading some of the comments I am taken aback with how much of it I disagree with. So here’s my two cents on the GU bigs I witnessed first hand in real time. I’ll start with Alonzo Mourning.

Zo remains my favorite Hoya of all time. He is the one who bought me into the fold of Hoya fandom as a youngin. His first Hoya team remains the best Hoya basketball team that I have followed (even if it didn’t make the Final Four). 

Zo is, truly, my favorite Hoya as well. His freshman year was so great, there was no question we were going to continue as the top program in the country. Alas, just didn't manage to put top talent around him. It's so funny, the NCAA selection committee usually only comes up when they do something weird or wrong, but that first round Princeton matchup, though it scotched my plans for that evening, and almost killed me, was a stroke of genius. 

I say with confidence that Alonzo had a very limited/subpar post game. 

Compared to who? Other NBA Hall of Fame Centers? It's just a weird thing to say about a guy who was the offensive focal point of every team he ever played on, and averaged 20+ points per game in the NBA before kidney disease robbed him of years of his prime. I'm certainly not saying that Zo possessed the low post moves of a McHale or Olajuwon, but Mourning was always an extremely technically competent and effective player who knew what he was supposed to do on a basketball court. His low post vocabulary was, indeed, fairly basic compared to some other players, and he was not much of a passer, but you are practically describing Alonzo Mourning as an offensive liability. Quite to the contrary, he would tear teams up inside if they didn't dedicate the resources and attention necessary to slow him.


It was such a detriment for him that NBA teams were able to take away his right hand and dared him to score. The Bulls in particular took joy in this. 

Yes, the '90's Bulls, who possessed two, then three, of the greatest defenders ever to play in the NBA, gave Alonzo and his teams a lot of problems

As a result during those peak years of the Heat with a young Alonzo, Tim Hardaway became the go-to-guy in the post season.

Alonzo played most of his playoff series against Jordan's Bulls, and the Ewing, Oakley and Mason Knicks teams. I mean, come on.


So how did Zo get to score so many points with the Hoyas and in the NBA? Well, he was quick, strong, had pretty good hands, could finish in traffic and most of all he was tenacious. He willed himself to get buckets and if that didn’t work he put so much pressure on the defense that he got fouled.   The game is no longer played like that and refs no longer allow bigs to keep hurling themselves towards the hoop to pick up fouls. 

The NBA allows much less contact now than they did in Zo's time. Not saying I know what his role would be on an imaginary current team, but his ability to establish position, receive an entry pass, and utilize his quickness and strength around the basket would draw many fouls in today's game.

To use a common modern day basketball jargon, Zo had no bag.

Needless to say, I completely disagree with this. It's like comparing Jerome Bettis to Barry Sanders, and saying Bettis is a subpar back. There are different ways to skin a cat. Alonzo has plenty of skills that, for whatever reason, you are undervaluing

Besides his warrior mentality what set Mourning apart was his uncanny ability to block shots. Pound for pound, inch for inch, a better shot blocker never lived, in particular not at the collegiate level.

if you even dream such a thing, you wake up and apologize to Bill Russell

Zo’s offseason developments never led to him returning to a new season with new skills Zo used the offseason to get physically stronger by building his muscles.

?

Apologies for the length on this one. But this was about Zo and he is a passionate subject for me, even if it means discussing his shortcomings.

Never apologize for thinking about Zo. I share your passion, just think you are sort of missing the forest for the trees

[vv83]

The thing I liked best about Zo's NBA career - during the peak of Shaq's career, he overpowered pretty much every center in the league, even the good ones. But he always had a tough time with Zo, even though Zo was small by NBA center standards. You would not think that a smaller center would be the one that gave a giant like Shaq trouble. But Zo was so competitive and tough. He challenged Shaq in a way that few other centers could, and he did it on a consistent basis.

Zo had a fantastic NBA career, and played well against just about everyone. But I always had a special appreciation for how tough and effective he was against Shaq.

[hoyarooter]

I suspect that Bill Russell is before MCI's time. It's no insult for Zo to be ranked behind the greatest shot blocker in the history of the league.

[JohnnyJones]

Nov 13, 2024 10:23:44 GMT -5 MCIGuy said:

His first Hoya team remains the best Hoya basketball team that I have followed (even if it didn’t make the Final Four).

Me too on this one. The '88-'89 team was so good. My freshman year. January through the BET in '89 was an incredible run. The Princeton game in Providence completely killed the mojo. I recovered quickly from the Duke loss, naively thinking it would be like that every year. Ha!

[kghoya]

Nov 13, 2024 23:44:09 GMT -5 JohnnyJones said:

Nov 13, 2024 10:23:44 GMT -5 MCIGuy said:

His first Hoya team remains the best Hoya basketball team that I have followed (even if it didn’t make the Final Four).

Me too on this one. The '88-'89 team was so good. My freshman year. January through the BET in '89 was an incredible run. The Princeton game in Providence completely killed the mojo. I recovered quickly from the Duke loss, naively thinking it would be like that every year. Ha!

Unfortunately Big John was done recruiting at that point.

[Elvado]

Nov 14, 2024 1:12:23 GMT -5 kghoya said:

Nov 13, 2024 23:44:09 GMT -5 JohnnyJones said:

Me too on this one. The '88-'89 team was so good. My freshman year. January through the BET in '89 was an incredible run. The Princeton game in Providence completely killed the mojo. I recovered quickly from the Duke loss, naively thinking it would be like that every year. Ha!

Unfortunately Big John was done recruiting at that point.

That season and, for all intents and purposes, Big John’s run ended when Phil Henderson crammed in Alonzo’s face in the Regional Final.

[MCIGuy]

Nov 14, 2024 4:43:40 GMT -5 Elvado said:

Nov 14, 2024 1:12:23 GMT -5 kghoya said:

Unfortunately Big John was done recruiting at that point.

That season and, for all intents and purposes, Big John’s run ended when Phil Henderson crammed in Alonzo’s face in the Regional Final.

One could argue so did the run of Big East dominance. And then Thompson did the ACC a huge favor by gifting Kenny Anderson to Georgia Tech and Grant Hill to Duke.