Thomas Sorber '24 commits to Georgetown

[SSHoya]

Nov 12, 2024 13:34:19 GMT -5 MCIGuy said:

Nov 12, 2024 12:42:29 GMT -5 hoyafan2014 said:

After 2 games, he reminds me of Joe Smith

Smith was super explosive and athletic, but his frame was so thin. That slenderness allowed him to slide by and between defenders because he had a very good first step. In the paint he would do quick pivots to get off some odd half-hook shots that somehow went in…a lot. Extremely quick off his feet with a jumpshot decent enough to be respected. Sorber may have a couple of similarities but I personally don’t see too much of a comparison.

I think you comped Sorber to Harrington before? That seemed more apt.

[SFHoya99]

Sorber may have soft hands like Sweetney but I think that's about as far as that comp can realistically go.

[hoyariv71]

I see a little Mourning, his free throw process is identical. Loved the block with left hand

[Filo]

Nov 12, 2024 13:53:02 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

Before everyone accuses me again of hating Sorber, yes, he's a freshman, and yes, it's two games in...

Wouldn't say "hating" but you certainly have not been glowing at all, to the point that it seems a bit odd. Seems like you are taking the approach Ed has with the team (downplay expectations)?

[dense]

I'd like to pat myself on the back. I told you guys he would have a Monroe like impact and some thought I was being delusional.

[jwp91]

I didn't think you were being delusional but I didn't want to plan on it- effectively betting the season on it. I am glad things are working out the way they are but if he was fouling out in 10 minutes like many freshman bigs, we would have a big problem.

[smokeyjack]

Nov 12, 2024 11:45:31 GMT -5 MCIGuy said:

Nov 12, 2024 10:59:20 GMT -5 Ranch Dressing said:

I saw some similarities to Greg Monroe's game - similar build/size and with a better-looking stroke. He might be a smidge more athletic too.

Greg didn’t have drop-step post moves that he could rely on with regularity. That came later in the NBA. Because of this Greg could at times be shockingly ineffective when posting up against college bigs who never sniffed the NBA. Greg also had almost no jumpshot he was comfortable with, not even within ten feet. Greg was a stud, don’t get me wrong. He could have challenged for Top Five Hoya status if he had stuck around for four years. But he seemed more comfortable facing the basket to set up his teammates with a pass, although that was partially a byproduct of III’s offense.

Monroe was more polished but not nearly as athletic in my opinion. Sorber was scandalously underrated. Agree with the folks who say Mourning is the closest comp. Sorber is longer and way more bouncy than Othella, who was 6-8 and thicker. The Govan comps are wild - love Show Out Jess, but he was a stiff comparatively. And Sweets was a broader Othella with better hands. Lacked length and had ZERO bounce.

Not saying he's going to be 'Zo, but that's the best comp athletically and for his build. Long, lean-muscled and bouncy with the frame of an Adonis. 

[SFHoya99]

Nov 12, 2024 15:07:48 GMT -5 Filo said:

Nov 12, 2024 13:53:02 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

Before everyone accuses me again of hating Sorber, yes, he's a freshman, and yes, it's two games in...

Wouldn't say "hating" but you certainly have not been glowing at all, to the point that it seems a bit odd. Seems like you are taking the approach Ed has with the team (downplay expectations)?

I'm super excited about Sorber. My original comments were in the context of things we might see with him that would be a step change for this team in the Big East that I was specifically looking for. They weren't even really criticisms, but I'm also not going to blow smoke and pretend these things aren't true.

The rumor mill had him contesting a lot of shots in practice, and if he is a plus rim protector this year, that changes so much defensively. He's got a decent block rate so far, but I expressed concern that between his strength and bigger BE opponents, I think that's up in the air / unlikely. Which is to be expected, I think, and what I would have expected had I not heard differently.

I also didn't expect him to have a strong post game. And he doesn't. I was hoping, and the reason why I brought it up is the Greg Monroe example -- that kind of game unlocks passing options everywhere. Which he's really freaking good at.

So those were two things I think have knock on effects at the team level. Like, if he's a plus rim protector, we are a bubble team. Probably not true, though.

That said, I do think we saw there is something more than passing, shooting and hands (which you could see in HS/were widely reported) that he's really good at, especially versus Fairfield. He's smart, and he's quick to a spot. I missed that after game 1; it's definitely going to be an offensive weapon for us and better than I expected pre-season.

I don't think it's a big criticism, either, to say I want to see how he holds up against bigger and stronger opponents.

Is this a very high standard for Sorber? Yes, and I said so. Is it a comprehensive look where I equally weigh positives and negatives? Nope. But also ... I don't think anything I said was wrong and I wasn't particularly evaluating Sorber so much as thinking about what his skillset means for the season.

I suppose I skipped the plaudits and went right to -- okay, what needs to be true for this team to make the next leap?

[blueandgray]

Nov 12, 2024 14:22:02 GMT -5 hoyariv71 said:

I see a little Mourning, his free throw process is identical. Loved the block with left hand

Feel like there is a lot of Greg Monroe to his game. To step away from Hoyas….some Al Hortford as well.

[miracles87]

Nov 12, 2024 13:10:45 GMT -5 MCIGuy said:

Nov 12, 2024 12:55:48 GMT -5 Ranch Dressing said:

I'd have to go back to some of his early games, but my memory is that Greg came in with a very solid, polished low post game, footwork, and ability to finish in the paint. Totally agree on Greg's jump shot - that form was not great and he never seemed comfortable with it at the college level.

Greg's frame Day 1 was awesome - so strong and broad at 18. That was his greatest asset when he showed up.

To bring back another positive memory, if Sorber could develop Sweetney's footwork and soft hands and use that extra athleticism and length, we are going to have a GREAT one!!!

Greg’s low post game was not that polished. Recall that from seeing him in his first KL appearance. And he was not nearly aggressive enough in the paint to make up for it. Of course I have the advantage of having nearly every Hoya game since 1989 recorded. I can/ have gone back to look at them at times. Greg was effective but he did not have a go-to-move with his back to the basket (he REALLY improved on this with the Pistons). But to be fair neither did Alonzo. There are a few Hoya games in their entirety with Greg in the lineup. People can check them out and judge for themselves.

As for Sweetney Sorber already has the soft hands.

As NCAA freshman Greg and Zo were both pretty effective in the low post. Greg immediately fit in with JT3's system, given his solid handle and passing ability, I'll never forget him running circles around Thabeet on the block. Zo was a monster from day 1, with his quickness and power. Plug and play guy who really knew the ins and outs of playing Center by the time he arrived to GTown, including how to establish position down low, get an entry pass, overpower some unfortunate defender, or execute on of his little hook shots. Neither guy ended up reminding of Olajuwon, but neither was in any way raw with their back to the basket.

[SSHoya]

Nov 12, 2024 17:10:01 GMT -5 blueandgray said:

Nov 12, 2024 14:22:02 GMT -5 hoyariv71 said:

I see a little Mourning, his free throw process is identical. Loved the block with left hand

Feel like there is a lot of Greg Monroe to his game. To step away from Hoyas….some Al Hortford as well.

I called Sorber Monroe-lite in another post earlier.

[cas92]

Nov 12, 2024 17:10:01 GMT -5 blueandgray said:

Nov 12, 2024 14:22:02 GMT -5 hoyariv71 said:

I see a little Mourning, his free throw process is identical. Loved the block with left hand

Feel like there is a lot of Greg Monroe to his game. To step away from Hoyas….some Al Hortford as well.

Would suggest Zach Randolph in his Memphis Grizzlies prime as a model of positioning and footwork in the low post - Sorber (having remade his physique by dropping weight) no longer has the heft of Randolph in his prime back then, but the guile around the basket reveals a craftiness that Randolph honed to great effect and would serve Sorber well.

[thedragon]

SFHoya99 what makes you say he doesn't have a strong post game? Granted against inferior comp but hes shown a pretty diverse back to basket game in first couple. Up and under. Spin baseline layup. Spin middle hook. Those are already more moves than any center we've had in years.

[madhoya]

Nov 12, 2024 16:01:59 GMT -5 smokeyjack said:

Nov 12, 2024 11:45:31 GMT -5 MCIGuy said:

Greg didn’t have drop-step post moves that he could rely on with regularity. That came later in the NBA. Because of this Greg could at times be shockingly ineffective when posting up against college bigs who never sniffed the NBA. Greg also had almost no jumpshot he was comfortable with, not even within ten feet. Greg was a stud, don’t get me wrong. He could have challenged for Top Five Hoya status if he had stuck around for four years. But he seemed more comfortable facing the basket to set up his teammates with a pass, although that was partially a byproduct of III’s offense.

Monroe was more polished but not nearly as athletic in my opinion. Sorber was scandalously underrated. Agree with the folks who say Mourning is the closest comp. Sorber is longer and way more bouncy than Othella, who was 6-8 and thicker. The Govan comps are wild - love Show Out Jess, but he was a stiff comparatively. And Sweets was a broader Othella with better hands. Lacked length and had ZERO bounce.

Not saying he's going to be 'Zo, but that's the best comp athletically and for his build. Long, lean-muscled and bouncy with the frame of an Adonis. 

I have to disagree about Sweetney with ZERO bounce… He had the 2nd most dunks in hoya history playing only 3 years..He's also rank has the best Offensive low post player to ever wear a hoya Jersey…

[smokeyjack]

I loved Sweets. I guess I’m remembering what he became. He was absolutely a beast in college. I remember Michael as explosive, but not bouncy. I guess it’s semantics. Beautiful thing is Sorber has at least a couple of years to make his own mark. I’m here for it. And I’m absolutely in the camp that is drinking the Koolaid and believe he’s special. Best big man prospect since Monroe IMO.

[SFHoya99]

Nov 12, 2024 17:53:37 GMT -5 thedragon said:

SFHoya99 what makes you say he doesn't have a strong post game? Granted against inferior comp but hes shown a pretty diverse back to basket game in first couple. Up and under. Spin baseline layup. Spin middle hook. Those are already more moves than any center we've had in years.

I'm not entirely sure what you are referring to here except that last one, I think. Most of his baseline spins haven't yielded positive results -- too many steps, getting stuck below the basket, etc. He's done very well to get good position behind guys and slip underneath without the ball. Maybe that's what you are thinking of on the spin baseline layup -- he had one great spin around without the ball and caught a lob to put in.

Most of his buckets have been these kind of things -- slip screens, screen and roll, offensive rebound, posting on the backside and catching lobs over, which is a Cooley staple. Which is great!

Just saying I haven't seen what people are talking about in terms of back to the basket, with the ball type of post game. I agree that if we're talking without the ball, he's super crafty down there so far.

I will gladly eat my words if I am wrong.

I don't have time right now to go back and watch again, but I paid particular attention against Fairfield and was actually surprised how much his offense was off smart off ball movement rather than all that much with the ball.

Again, it's not a negative or a big deal. It fits really well with Cooley. I do think a back to the basket game would open up his amazing passing -- think what Jeff used to do, or what Jokic does out of a high post. That's all.

[SFHoya99]

Nov 12, 2024 16:01:59 GMT -5 smokeyjack said:

Nov 12, 2024 11:45:31 GMT -5 MCIGuy said:

Greg didn’t have drop-step post moves that he could rely on with regularity. That came later in the NBA. Because of this Greg could at times be shockingly ineffective when posting up against college bigs who never sniffed the NBA. Greg also had almost no jumpshot he was comfortable with, not even within ten feet. Greg was a stud, don’t get me wrong. He could have challenged for Top Five Hoya status if he had stuck around for four years. But he seemed more comfortable facing the basket to set up his teammates with a pass, although that was partially a byproduct of III’s offense.

Monroe was more polished but not nearly as athletic in my opinion. Sorber was scandalously underrated. Agree with the folks who say Mourning is the closest comp. Sorber is longer and way more bouncy than Othella, who was 6-8 and thicker. The Govan comps are wild - love Show Out Jess, but he was a stiff comparatively. And Sweets was a broader Othella with better hands. Lacked length and had ZERO bounce.

Not saying he's going to be 'Zo, but that's the best comp athletically and for his build. Long, lean-muscled and bouncy with the frame of an Adonis. 

Blocks aren't just the result of verticals, but Zo averaged 5 blocks a game his freshman year. I think you are right that he's bouncier than Othella and more athletic than Govan, but he doesn't have Mourning's athleticism, IMO. Zo's was elite for an NBA player.

[MCIGuy]

Nov 12, 2024 13:53:20 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

Nov 12, 2024 13:34:19 GMT -5 MCIGuy said:

Smith was super explosive and athletic, but his frame was so thin. That slenderness allowed him to slide by and between defenders because he had a very good first step. In the paint he would do quick pivots to get off some odd half-hook shots that somehow went in…a lot. Extremely quick off his feet with a jumpshot decent enough to be respected. Sorber may have a couple of similarities but I personally don’t see too much of a comparison.

I think you comped Sorber to Harrington before? That seemed more apt.

Nope. Granted Harrington had a strong offensive repertoire coming into GU (like Sorber) that steadily declined thanks to John Thompson’s use of him. But it was painfully clear that Othella was too short to be remain highly effective in the paint. O also made the mistake of not going up strong quick enough, he would use ineffective pump makes as if he was bracing himself. O also didn’t dribble to the basket effective nor did he have the lift or wingspan that Sorber possesses. But, man, for a time he had a sweet turnaround jumper that I have yet to see from any other Hoya big man (Ewing at Gtown was before “my time” as a fan).

[hoyariv71]

Nov 12, 2024 17:10:01 GMT -5 blueandgray said:

Nov 12, 2024 14:22:02 GMT -5 hoyariv71 said:

I see a little Mourning, his free throw process is identical. Loved the block with left hand

Feel like there is a lot of Greg Monroe to his game. To step away from Hoyas….some Al Hortford as well.

i said over the summer, maybe a little Tim Duncan, below the rim

[DanMcQ]