Georgetown @ DePaul 12/29/2022 Discussion

[TC]

Dec 29, 2022 22:21:53 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

]I had the same thought. Jack D's London comments gives him a basis to say that we must de-emphasize basketball in the new NIL environment. Ewing's contract extension is like deferred NIL for the 4 years he played for Georgetown and put us on the map. A golden parachute.

I can't see that happening just because if he doesn't fix it, this ends up as his legacy. The hospital deal, everything else he's done - he ends up as the guy that killed Georgetown Basketball just like the only time I've ever heard of Fr. Guthrie is from him dropping the football program, or Healy selling WGTB for $1. For all the people complaining about him being a lifer and staying too long - it means that his legacy is important and I can guarantee he does not want this as his legacy.

If Jack DeGioia doesn't fix this, people will remember him killing Georgetown Basketball in the same way. I don't think he'll act midseason, but I can't see him wanting this to continue for another year.

[saxagael]

Dec 29, 2022 22:16:41 GMT -5 mfk24 said:

Dec 29, 2022 22:14:29 GMT -5 OmaHoya said:

I'm too lazy to look it up, but is Spears' matchup generally the opposing player that torches us? Probably hard to tell with how porous our D is overall, but I can't recall watching a game and feeling he played well on D.

His on ball defense is fair I’d say, but he gets lost routinely when his man moves off the ball.

It sometimes is the three, but Spears gets beat when the on ball guard takes him off the dribble every single time. It doesn't seem to matter if the on ball player is good or not, he just gets beat. It is nearly every single possession, that sets up the offense inside and kickout when Murray or others help. It is Spears inability to come his man minimally that creates offense for the other team. It can be a kick out to whomever Murray or Heath were covering when they come to help (Bristol doesn't leave his man. But, also players in the middle pull away from their man and it is an easy inside basket.

On second watches of games this jumps out big time and it wasan't as bad as it has been the last few games. Tonight in the second half Spears was beat badly in 1 step or 2. McClung wasn't this bad and he was pretty bad on defense and horrible defensive footwork.

If you scout teams this is one of the things to look for, but I don't think I've seen a starter nor deep bench get beaten this regularly.

[hoyajmw]

One word: predictable….

[SSHoya]

Dec 29, 2022 22:28:52 GMT -5 TC said:

Dec 29, 2022 22:21:53 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

]I had the same thought. Jack D's London comments gives him a basis to say that we must de-emphasize basketball in the new NIL environment. Ewing's contract extension is like deferred NIL for the 4 years he played for Georgetown and put us on the map. A golden parachute.

I can't see that happening just because if he doesn't fix it, this ends up as his legacy. The hospital deal, everything else he's done - he ends up as the guy that killed Georgetown Basketball just like the only time I've ever heard of Fr. Guthrie is from him dropping the football program, or Healy selling WGTB for $1.

If Jack DeGioia doesn't fix this, people will remember him killing Georgetown Basketball in the same way. I don't think he'll act midseason, but I can't see him wanting this to continue for another ear.

Jack is unable to fix it. He'll get on his high horse and say pulling Georgetown out of big time DI basketball was in furtherance of the academic mission of Georgetown and consistent with his professed Jesuit values! He's been in Washington, D.C. his entire adult life - he's learned to spin anything.

[hoyaguy]

Maybe the conspiracy theories are too complex for this genius regime maybe it is simple as suggested above ^^

[SSHoya]

Dec 29, 2022 22:31:40 GMT -5 hoyaguy said:

Maybe the conspiracy theories are too complex for this genius regime maybe it is simple as suggested above ^^

Occam's razor. But the conspiracy theory is consistent with the arrogance.

[hoyaguy]

Dec 29, 2022 22:28:52 GMT -5 TC said:

Dec 29, 2022 22:21:53 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

]I had the same thought. Jack D's London comments gives him a basis to say that we must de-emphasize basketball in the new NIL environment. Ewing's contract extension is like deferred NIL for the 4 years he played for Georgetown and put us on the map. A golden parachute.

I can't see that happening just because if he doesn't fix it, this ends up as his legacy. The hospital deal, everything else he's done - he ends up as the guy that killed Georgetown Basketball just like the only time I've ever heard of Fr. Guthrie is from him dropping the football program, or Healy selling WGTB for $1.

If Jack DeGioia doesn't fix this, people will remember him killing Georgetown Basketball in the same way. I don't think he'll act midseason, but I can't see him wanting this to continue for another ear.

That’ll be a great legacy tagline along with the horrible handling of covid for the more recent students who don’t follow basketball

[hoyaboya]

7 turnovers, 0 assists tonight for Murray. 15 turnovers combined in the last 2 games.

[vv83]

I will be very surprised if this team wins a BE game. They just have no idea how to play winning basketball. The 10-0 two minute run where we went from up 3 to down 7 halfway through the second half - is now the trademark of Georgetown basketball. It happens almost every game some time in the second half. the other team hits two shots in a row, we panic and start forcing offensively. this leads to breakout dunks/wide open 3a, and a lightning quick avalanche of scoring for the opponent.

it is one of the many big tells that we are very poorly coached. Complete loss of composure, bad offense leading directly to awful defense, increasing panic with each opponent basket. We actually shut it down fairly well tonight - usually those runs are more like 20-3 than tonight's 10-0.

If Akok and Heath miss some games (no idea why neither did not return after leaving the game tonight, have to assume injuries) - we have even less chance of winning while they are out. they are not great, but they are legit big east level talents. Mozone and Bristol played credibly tonight, but they are barely average backups at this level, if that.

Murray should have gotten more rest. But he was winded 10 minutes into the game. The guy is not in good shape, it has been obvious since game one. He plays hard, and he can't be expected to play 40 minutes without running out of gas even if he were in good shape. But he does not help his case by being visibly winded by the 10 minute mark (or earlier) of each game.

Ewing (or more likely Nickelberry) at least made some defensive adjustments at halftime tonight. Face guarding gibson kind of worked, and we did deny them all the wide open 3s in the second half. But our offense fell apart in the second half, leading to the 10-0 run fueled by our lousy offense.

the whole thing is a dark comedy at this point. Every Hoya mistake/collapse can be predicted easily by the few of us who watch all the games. The same mistakes every game, there same issues every game. The first 4 Ewing years were not good, but they were at least not embarrassing (other than the massive transfer departures). We even had the bizarre BE tournament run.

But the last two seasons have been a non stop comedy of errors. At this point, I am wondering how we were able to be occasionally competitive in the first 4 Ewing years, given how completely incompetent the coaching has been in the past two seasons. The handful of good wins from those first four seasons are the shocking aspect of the Ewing coaching era, not the mess of the past two seasons. The mess is who he is as a coach. I don't know what was making us just a run of the mill mediocre team for the first 4 seasons. That level of play from a Ewing coached team seems unimaginable after watching these past two seasons.

Did anyone else catch the "energy" of the bench players in the final minutes? When we got the call reversed on the out of bounds with 1:32 left, down 4 - there was a good shot of the bench. The players were all sitting there stone faced. No energy, no cheering for their teammates. There was another shot of Riley on the bench a few minutes earlier after a good hoya play. I think the producer was looking for a reaction shot from the bench - well, he got a reaction. Riley was sitting back in his chair looking bored out of his mind, and gave a polite golf clap to "celebrate" his teammate's big play. He could not have looked more disengaged.

this is not a criticism of Riley at all - he had the same reaction most of us probably had. We knew the game was over by that point, we have known the season is over for a long time. Riley knows that he's never going to play a minute of meaningful college basketball at Georgetown, if Ewing even lets him play at all. I do not blame him at all for being less than fully engaged at this point in the game/season.

This is a train wreck unlike anything I have seen before. St. John's was awful in Mullin's first season. But that team had no players at all. they started walk ons, and they competed hard and won a few games in the conference. Indiana was awful in Tom Crean's first season - again, they had no players. Jeremiah Rivers was their point guard. But playing with no players in a very tough conference in a coach's first year - sure, rough season. And they got good quick, getting some high seeds in the NCAAA tournament within a couple of years.

The Hoyas are well beyond any other non-scandal related mess I can think of. I guarantee that if a coach like Pitino had this exact same team from the start of summer practice on - we would be an 8/9/10 win BE team. We have the talent to play at that level. But right now, I would say we are more likely to lose out than we are to win a game. And that is 100% on the head coach.

[hoyajmw]

Georgetown basketball: where potential goes to die.

[hoyaguy]

Dec 29, 2022 22:32:49 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

Dec 29, 2022 22:31:40 GMT -5 hoyaguy said:

Maybe the conspiracy theories are too complex for this genius regime maybe it is simple as suggested above ^^

Occam's razor. But the conspiracy theory is consistent with the arrogance.

That’s true there has always been that air of “shut up, only we know best” from the admin as they crash something into the ground

[saxagael]

Dec 29, 2022 22:22:43 GMT -5 drquigley said:

Dec 29, 2022 22:16:17 GMT -5 hsaxon said:

Kudos to Qudus - he battled.

Really? Yes he battled under the boards but once he gets the ball in his concrete-like hands it is anyone's guess where the ball is going since it for sure isn't going in the basket. I'm sorry but Wahab has actually regressed from 2 years ago. Amazing that he could be coached by one of the best centers of all time and still not know how to not put the ball on the floor, not get called for 3 seconds, and how not to knock people over on his way to the hoop.

Looking at Wahab's 2nd half stats with 7 offensive boards and 1 made basket and 0 assists. Those 7 offensive boards turned into next to nothing. Take that and all the missed tip backs. That is not good and pretty bad to be honest. He was better than this his sophomore year. Ryan is far better than this.

I haven't seen a miss put back stat on the Hoyas in a while, but Wahab was likely in double figures in the second half alone. Those could be easy buckets, they are with Ryan and most other bigs.

[hsaxon]

Dec 29, 2022 22:28:52 GMT -5 TC said:

Dec 29, 2022 22:21:53 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

]I had the same thought. Jack D's London comments gives him a basis to say that we must de-emphasize basketball in the new NIL environment. Ewing's contract extension is like deferred NIL for the 4 years he played for Georgetown and put us on the map. A golden parachute.

I can't see that happening just because if he doesn't fix it, this ends up as his legacy. The hospital deal, everything else he's done - he ends up as the guy that killed Georgetown Basketball just like the only time I've ever heard of Fr. Guthrie is from him dropping the football program, or Healy selling WGTB for $1. For all the people complaining about him being a lifer and staying too long - it means that his legacy is important and I can guarantee he does not want this as his legacy.

If Jack DeGioia doesn't fix this, people will remember him killing Georgetown Basketball in the same way. I don't think he'll act midseason, but I can't see him wanting this to continue for another year.

It may already be too late.

[757hoyafan]

11 assists - all from Spears.

[calhoya]

Not going to lie—I turned it off before the half. Watch until I cannot stand it. What I notice from the box score is another poor FT shooting night 11/17 and an unbelievable 18 TOs. Pathetic, but what I would like to know is why Heath played so little and why Akok barely played. Was anything explained. .

[hoyajmw]

Dec 29, 2022 22:35:08 GMT -5 vv83 said:

I will be very surprised if this team wins a BE game. They just have no idea how to play winning basketball. The 10-0 two minute run where we went from up 3 to down 7 halfway through the second half - is now the trademark of Georgetown basketball. It happens almost every game some time in the second half. the other team hits two shots in a row, we panic and start forcing offensively. this leads to breakout dunks/wide open 3a, and a lightning quick avalanche of scoring for the opponent.

it is one of the many big tells that we are very poorly coached. Complete loss of composure, bad offense leading directly to awful defense, increasing panic with each opponent basket. We actually shut it down fairly well tonight - usually those runs are more like 20-3 than tonight's 10-0.
….

Last year at DePaul it was a 26-0 run that converted a lead into a blow out loss. So this is improvement — let’s extend PE for another 3 years!🤦🏻‍♂️😀

[DonkDonk]

Dec 29, 2022 22:10:56 GMT -5 saxagael said:

Dec 29, 2022 22:07:25 GMT -5 Elvado said:

Riley in now?

Good Lord.

Exactly.

Well, Riley was in solely to get rebound on Wahab’s purposeful missed FTA

[TC]

Dec 29, 2022 22:38:34 GMT -5 hsaxon said:

It may already be too late.

We hire the right coach, we're in the tournament as an at large next year. This is not a situation where you have to struggle to improve for a decade.

[saxagael]

Dec 29, 2022 22:35:08 GMT -5 vv83 said:

I will be very surprised if this team wins a BE game. They just have no idea how to play winning basketball. The 10-0 two minute run where we went from up 3 to down 7 halfway through the second half - is now the trademark of Georgetown basketball. It happens almost every game some time in the second half. the other team hits two shots in a row, we panic and start forcing offensively. this leads to breakout dunks/wide open 3a, and a lightning quick avalanche of scoring for the opponent.

it is one of the many big tells that we are very poorly coached. Complete loss of composure, bad offense leading directly to awful defense, increasing panic with each opponent basket. We actually shut it down fairly well tonight - usually those runs are more like 20-3 than tonight's 10-0.

If Akok and Heath miss some games (no idea why neither did not return after leaving the game tonight, have to assume injuries) - we have even less chance of winning while they are out. they are not great, but they are legit big east level talents. Mozone and Bristol played credibly tonight, but they are barely average backups at this level, if that.

Murray should have gotten more rest. But he was winded 10 minutes into the game. The guy is not in good shape, it has been obvious since game one. He plays hard, and he can't be expected to play 40 minutes without running out of gas even if he were in good shape. But he does not help his case by being visibly winded by the 10 minute mark (or earlier) of each game.

Ewing (or more likely Nickelberry) at least made some defensive adjustments at halftime tonight. Face guarding gibson kind of worked, and we did deny them all the wide open 3s in the second half. But our offense fell apart in the second half, leading to the 10-0 run fueled by our lousy offense.

the whole thing is a dark comedy at this point. Every Hoya mistake/collapse can be predicted easily by the few of us who watch all the games. The same mistakes every game, there same issues every game. The first 4 Ewing years were not good, but they were at least not embarrassing (other than the massive transfer departures). We even had the bizarre BE tournament run.

But the last two seasons have been a non stop comedy of errors. At this point, I am wondering how we were able to be occasionally competitive in the first 4 Ewing years, given how completely incompetent the coaching has been in the past two seasons. The handful of good wins from those first four seasons are the shocking aspect of the Ewing coaching era, not the mess of the past two seasons. The mess is who he is as a coach. I don't know what was making us just a run of the mill mediocre team for the first 4 seasons. That level of play from a Ewing coached team seems unimaginable after watching these past two seasons.

Did anyone else catch the "energy" of the bench players in the final minutes? When we got the call reversed on the out of bounds with 1:32 left, down 4 - there was a good shot of the bench. The players were all sitting there stone faced. No energy, no cheering for their teammates. There was another shot of Riley on the bench a few minutes earlier after a good hoya play. I think the producer was looking for a reaction shot from the bench - well, he got a reaction. Riley was sitting back in his chair looking bored out of his mind, and gave a polite golf clap to "celebrate" his teammate's big play. He could not have looked more disengaged.

this is not a criticism of Riley at all - he had the same reaction most of us probably had. We knew the game was over by that point, we have known the season is over for a long time. Riley knows that he's never going to play a minute of meaningful college basketball at Georgetown, if Ewing even lets him play at all. I do not blame him at all for being less than fully engaged at this point in the game/season.

This is a train wreck unlike anything I have seen before. St. John's was awful in Mullin's first season. But that team had no players at all. they started walk ons, and they competed hard and won a few games in the conference. Indiana was awful in Tom Crean's first season - again, they had no players. Jeremiah Rivers was their point guard. But playing with no players in a very tough conference in a coach's first year - sure, rough season. And they got good quick, getting some high seeds in the NCAAA tournament within a couple of years.

The Hoyas are well beyond any other non-scandal related mess I can think of. I guarantee that if a coach like Pitino had this exact same team from the start of summer practice on - we would be an 8/9/10 win BE team. We have the talent to play at that level. But right now, I would say we are more likely to lose out than we are to win a game. And that is 100% on the head coach.

This!

I've been trying to keep somewhat positive the past couple seasons. The Big East tourney run was amazing and I was a believer. But, this right now is an utter disaster. There are players who struggle badly and start, with players and rotations that work, but those don't get time.

The past few games, since the Jamaica tournament Ewing leaves the court after a loss and is smiling and chatting with anybody who will chat with him. The assistant coaches look like they are Editeded and would be happy to punch a hole in the wall if now a whiteboard. It has been a long while since I've seen blatant mismanagement of a team. Watching the delay over an out of bounds call with players at the sideline Ewing was talking to the team and nobody was listening. The game was winnable. As players started to walk to the court one of the assistants called to players and they focussed. That was an incredibly telling moment.

[royski]

We ran out of words long ago to describe the utter disgrace this embarrassment of a program is. What a joke.