b52legend
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 453
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Post by b52legend on Jan 11, 2023 11:10:54 GMT -5
I think the Georgetown job, when it becomes available, will be very attractive. The hired coach is no longer following a legend, they are following the worst coaching job in BE history and taking over a team that can go no lower. The hired coach will have a long leash given the circumstances and almost any improvement will be lauded. We have good facilities, it is a high paying job, the school is singularly focused on basketball from an athletics perspective, we are in a Power 6 conference, we have qualities that could lead to strong recruiting. The big question isn’t if we could get a good coach. The question is if we will do a legitimate process to actually get one. We haven’t had an unaffiliated basketball coaching hire in 50 years.
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CTHoya08
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Bring back Izzo!
Posts: 2,960
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Post by CTHoya08 on Jan 11, 2023 11:19:32 GMT -5
In all seriousness, what "relational baggage attached to Big John, Esh to some extent, III and Patrick" are you talking about? Are you hinting that there are a bunch of people loyal to those guys that won't send players to Georgetown in the future under a different coach? Who are those "high school and AAU coaches", why would they do that, and how will they "torpedo us"? I hate to break it to you, but we don't have very good relationships with most local high school and AAU coaches as is. We have had a terrible lack of success recruiting locally - nobody is delivering players to us. If you're talking about regional or national programs (the IMG Acacemys of the world), how could they send us fewer prospects than they're sending us now? What are these loyalties to the Thompson/Ewing folks getting us today? We've recruited a team of mercenaries through the portal and our high school recruiting appears to be dead in the water due to the team's performance, we've lost 27 straight Big East games - so how could it get any worse? Hoyaboya- we are in agreement that the relationships with coaches and recruiting sources is in shambles. My point is that those issues are something a new coach will inherit. If the idea is that a new coach somehow clears the slate, I disagree with that vehemently. I think it will be a slow thaw over the course of years or perhaps a decade or more. are between people. Why would we assume that the high school and AAU coaches who currently are giving the cold shoulder to our program would continue to do so under entirely different leadership? If we had fired Ewing last year and hired, say, Kyle Neptune, would the coaches that were sending him players at Villanova and Fordham suddenly say "Oh, he has a G on his hat now, can't talk to him any more?" Of course not. Depending on who we hire (head coach and assistants), we could repair those non-existing relationships pretty quickly. A new coach could leverage the relationships that are successful for him at his current job and recruit those kids to Georgetown instead of wherever he is now. (We all agree that we're going to hire someone who is succeeding at his current job, right? Right?) I simply don't buy the argument that a new coach is going to be held back by--or scared out of taking the job by--any problems that past coaches had with local high school and AAU coaches. |
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 11, 2023 11:22:10 GMT -5
We can agree to disagree. I still believe there are things Big John did in say 1993 or JT III did not do in 2014 that will affect our coach in 2028. Those issues can be overcome- but I think it is false that GU sheds all of that baggage with a new hire- even someone like Pitino.
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RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,144
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Post by RBHoya on Jan 11, 2023 11:46:46 GMT -5
We can agree to disagree. I still believe there are things Big John did in say 1993 or JT III did not do in 2014 that will affect our coach in 2028. Those issues can be overcome- but I think it is false that GU sheds all of that baggage with a new hire- even someone like Pitino. It's much more of an issue if you stay in the same tree, as we have done for the last several hires. But, new blood can change things. JT2 obviously had a terrible relationship with DeMatha which continued under Esherick, but his son was able to mend those fences with Jones who inherited the DeMatha program and able to land Freeman and Hopkins from there. On the flip side, JT2 alienated a lot of the AAU power brokers by refusing to kowtow to them or kiss their asses (to succeed in his day, it wasn't necessary) and while JTIII was initially able to avoid that, when his dad got in the middle of the agent selection process and cut the AAU guys out of that finder's fee, it alienated a lot of the local powerbrokers and our local recruiting was never the same. I am firmly in the camp that relationships can be totally turned around right away with a new staff. Get a head coach who is highly respected and a team of assistants with strong networks and you're golden...Prioritizing relationships and connections in hiring assistants rather than proximity to a Chief of Staff--what a novel idea, right? To the extent that we are negatively affected by previous regimes, it's going to be because we've allowed a generation of young people to grow up with the perception that "Georgetown S--ks" via embarrassing NCAA tournament upsets 10-15 years ago followed by complete and utter incompetence over the last few years. THAT's what the next coach is contending with, not trying to rehabilitate relationships with people who soured on the Thompson mafia. That all goes away with a total house cleaning. |
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,672
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Post by prhoya on Jan 11, 2023 12:04:59 GMT -5
If there is change?! What else do you need to see? Consecutive 0-fer seasons are not enough? This is only year 6. hoyalove4ever thinks a coach needs at least 8 years before he can be properly evaluated. And $31,000,000.00 |
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mfk24
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,762
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Post by mfk24 on Jan 11, 2023 12:14:06 GMT -5
We can agree to disagree. I still believe there are things Big John did in say 1993 or JT III did not do in 2014 that will affect our coach in 2028. Those issues can be overcome- but I think it is false that GU sheds all of that baggage with a new hire- even someone like Pitino. It's much more of an issue if you stay in the same tree, as we have done for the last several hires. But, new blood can change things. JT2 obviously had a terrible relationship with DeMatha which continued under Esherick, but his son was able to mend those fences with Jones who inherited the DeMatha program and able to land Freeman and Hopkins from there. On the flip side, JT2 alienated a lot of the AAU power brokers by refusing to kowtow to them or kiss their asses (to succeed in his day, it wasn't necessary) and while JTIII was initially able to avoid that, when his dad got in the middle of the agent selection process and cut the AAU guys out of that finder's fee, it alienated a lot of the local powerbrokers and our local recruiting was never the same. I am firmly in the camp that relationships can be totally turned around right away with a new staff. Get a head coach who is highly respected and a team of assistants with strong networks and you're golden...Prioritizing relationships and connections in hiring assistants rather than proximity to a Chief of Staff--what a novel idea, right? To the extent that we are negatively affected by previous regimes, it's going to be because we've allowed a generation of young people to grow up with the perception that "Georgetown S--ks" via embarrassing NCAA tournament upsets 10-15 years ago followed by complete and utter incompetence over the last few years. THAT's what the next coach is contending with, not trying to rehabilitate relationships with people who soured on the Thompson mafia. That all goes away with a total house cleaning. This. If the new hire is outside the Thompson circle, has proven success, and is bringing his previously established relationships with him, the only thing we're going to be held back by is the last 10 years of painfully bad basketball and stink of record-breaking losing. |
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bostonfan
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,549 
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Post by bostonfan on Jan 11, 2023 12:41:04 GMT -5
We can agree to disagree. I still believe there are things Big John did in say 1993 or JT III did not do in 2014 that will affect our coach in 2028. Those issues can be overcome- but I think it is false that GU sheds all of that baggage with a new hire- even someone like Pitino. Hiring a new coach, even a very highly regarded one, will not magically fix all the issues that are holding the program back now. It can be a start and hopefully can pay dividends to some degree in the first year or two, but fixing the perception of the school/program with the high level local/national recruits is going to take a few years of hard work and relationship building. There absolutely needs to be a culture change in the program and the first step is replacing the staff and the rest of the basketball administration currently in place. All great journeys start with a first step. Time to take that first step!!! |
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,481
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Post by TC on Jan 11, 2023 13:02:30 GMT -5
LOL this thread is just comedy
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 11, 2023 13:49:07 GMT -5
We can agree to disagree. I still believe there are things Big John did in say 1993 or JT III did not do in 2014 that will affect our coach in 2028. Those issues can be overcome- but I think it is false that GU sheds all of that baggage with a new hire- even someone like Pitino. Hiring a new coach, even a very highly regarded one, will not magically fix all the issues that are holding the program back now. It can be a start and hopefully can pay dividends to some degree in the first year or two, but fixing the perception of the school/program with the high level local/national recruits is going to take a few years of hard work and relationship building. There absolutely needs to be a culture change in the program and the first step is replacing the staff and the rest of the basketball administration currently in place. All great journeys start with a first step. Time to take that first step!!! It won't magically fix everything, but if we make the right hire and go for someone like Pitino, it absolutely will fix most of our problems because I assume such a hire would be accompanied by cleaning house, including Ronny. While perhaps Iona did not have the baggage that Georgetown has, Iona was a 200+ level program, and in three years Pitino has them at 66. And Iona is a much tougher sell from a recruiting standpoint than Georgetown because it is in a one-bid conference and not a major program. I am not saying that a new coach will reverse everything overnight, but I think the impediments people speak of are largely self imposed. While I have no doubt that decisions made long ago have some affect on our program, I think it is overstating things to say those are the be all and end all. Part of the problem with the program now is that everyone knows that Georgetown is a program made in John Thompson's shadow and it has been clinging to that shadow desperately for the last several decades. "Outsiders" have had no chance to be part of the program because Georgetown, up to now, hasn't even considered them. But, if we brought in an outside coach (which now will be a necessity since there are no insiders even remotely qualified) who could have their own identity and not be weighed down by the negative parts of our history, it would make a huge difference. I have no illusion that a new coach will have us in the NCAA tournament in one year, but I think a 2-3 year window is absolutely feasible. And I think if we brought in someone who is a good recruiter, too, it would not be a problem. Ewing is not recruitng well in the area as it is. So, I really don't think it could be worse if we hire someone else, especially someone who is a skilled and experienced recruiter, like Pitino or Cooley, or Mack. Recruiting is all about personality, charisma, and personal connection. (I mean, take a look at this year, the only reason we got Murray was his personal connection to Nickelberry, it has nothing to do with Georgetown, it's history, what errors were made, etc.) |
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Post by augustusfinknottle on Jan 11, 2023 17:52:06 GMT -5
While he would be a horrid candidate, I like that a national figure would put this out there on Twitter: In fairness to Jay Williams he criticized the hiring of Ewing not recently but from day one. |
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iowa80
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,407
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Post by iowa80 on Jan 11, 2023 18:22:33 GMT -5
While he would be a horrid candidate, I like that a national figure would put this out there on Twitter: In fairness to Jay Williams he criticized the hiring of Ewing not recently but from day one. Clearly somebody with no college coaching experience is the answer. What could possibly go wrong? |
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Highsmith
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,490
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Post by Highsmith on Jan 11, 2023 18:25:20 GMT -5
LOL this thread is just comedy Oh Stan......trust us. This job is open. |
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smokeyjack
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,316
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Post by smokeyjack on Jan 11, 2023 18:58:18 GMT -5
We can agree to disagree. I still believe there are things Big John did in say 1993 or JT III did not do in 2014 that will affect our coach in 2028. Those issues can be overcome- but I think it is false that GU sheds all of that baggage with a new hire- even someone like Pitino. Utterly, completely, totally disagree. HoyaParanoia GU days ended more than a decade ago. I don’t think anyone views us through Morgan Wooten’s lenses anymore. We aren’t an edgy program ruffling feathers. We’re a long-cold corpse. |
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HoyaFanNY
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,055
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Jan 12, 2023 7:10:09 GMT -5
Jay Williams is openly campaigning for the job on espn (kjm) right now
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,661
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 12, 2023 7:25:28 GMT -5
The risk of keeping the coach until the end of the season is that we have a miracle run in the BET and all is forgotten. 🤡
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,481
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Post by TC on Jan 12, 2023 7:42:31 GMT -5
Jay Williams is openly campaigning for the job on espn (kjm) right now Free advertising I guess. Good thing he didn't go to Georgetown or he might be seriously considered. |
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78HOYA78
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 432
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Post by 78HOYA78 on Jan 12, 2023 8:35:45 GMT -5
Mark Jackson???
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hoopsmccan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,435
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Post by hoopsmccan on Jan 12, 2023 8:38:35 GMT -5
The risk of keeping the coach until the end of the season is that we have a miracle run in the BET and all is forgotten. 🤡 Though extremely unlikely, I think the real worry is that we do something like beat, say, Butler and DePaul and split with St Johns. That, and probably one other surprise, and a Wednesday afternoon game at the Garden is for Ewing’s job. hm |
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nbhoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 444
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Post by nbhoya on Jan 12, 2023 8:46:11 GMT -5
What a plot twist. Here we were worrying about a poor mid-major or G-league coach. It would be on-brand for us to hire a TV analyst non-coach as coach.
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78HOYA78
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 432
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Post by 78HOYA78 on Jan 12, 2023 9:00:21 GMT -5
At this point keep playing the bench. After all they have gotten a taste of BE play and they can only get better. I wish I was a "fly on the wall" to get a glimpse of what is discussed by the coaches in practice and in the film room. We are a first half team that makes "zero" second half adjustments.
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