alleninxis
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Post by alleninxis on Mar 7, 2023 14:15:23 GMT -5
Chris Mack is not at all a fit at Georgetown. Same reason Ole Miss isn't inquiring about Ed Cooley.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Mar 7, 2023 14:18:27 GMT -5
I'd rather have Pitino than Cooley or Mack. I'd rather have Cooley than Mack, because as noted above, we have evidence that he has successfully handled rebuilds. I'd wouldn't be up in arms if we ended up with Mack, unless there's evidence that we could have have one of the other two guys and didn't go for it. Chances are that such evidence would be circumstantial at best, but if Pitino ends up a decidedly inferior job, that would probably tell us something about GU's efforts. We all know hoyaboya is a Cooley hater, so of course he's not going to be satisfied with evidence that other major programs want or wanted him. But I don't know what other "evidence" could really be out there, given that he hasn't left PC. It's not like these offers are made out in the open. Here's a trivia question for the Cooley fans: how many times, in 17 years of head coaching, has Ed Cooley's team been ranked in the final AP top 25? |
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Mar 7, 2023 14:19:59 GMT -5
Chris Mack is not at all a fit at Georgetown. Same reason Ole Miss isn't inquiring about Ed Cooley. Is this an "everybody cheats except Georgetown and Providence" post? Or are you alluding to something else? |
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alleninxis
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Post by alleninxis on Mar 7, 2023 14:26:51 GMT -5
Chris Mack doesn't want to be on the east coast and his personality is not a fit for Georgetown and they both probably are aware of it.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 7, 2023 14:28:23 GMT -5
I'd rather have Pitino than Cooley or Mack. I'd rather have Cooley than Mack, because as noted above, we have evidence that he has successfully handled rebuilds. I'd wouldn't be up in arms if we ended up with Mack, unless there's evidence that we could have have one of the other two guys and didn't go for it. Chances are that such evidence would be circumstantial at best, but if Pitino ends up a decidedly inferior job, that would probably tell us something about GU's efforts. We all know hoyaboya is a Cooley hater, so of course he's not going to be satisfied with evidence that other major programs want or wanted him. But I don't know what other "evidence" could really be out there, given that he hasn't left PC. It's not like these offers are made out in the open. Here's a trivia question for the Cooley fans: how many times, in 17 years of head coaching, has Ed Cooley's team been ranked in the final AP top 25? Dormant anti-Cooley boya is back and wide awake! 🤣 |
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 7, 2023 14:30:55 GMT -5
KenPom Mack vs. Cooley in full seasons since 2011-2012 (Cooley's 1st Year at Providence) 2012: Xavier (53), Providence (126) 2013: Xavier (78), Providence (69) 2014: Xavier (52), Providence (48) 2015: Xavier (21), Providence (27) 2016: Xavier (14), Providence (44) 2017: Xavier (31), Providence (60) 2018: Xavier (15), Providence (63) 2019: Louisville (23), Providence (79) 2020: Louisville (9), Providence (40) 2021: Louisville (53), Providence (80) 2022: Providence (32) Mack Average KenPom: 34.9 Cooley Average KenPom: 60.7 Cooley's 2023 Providence team is sitting on the bubble at KenPom 44. I get that people around here like him for a variety of reasons, including because his daughter goes to Georgetown, he's said nice things about our program, and he's a Big East guy, but to pay a buyout and big salary for Cooley compared to no buyout and probably less salary for Pitino or Mack makes no sense. Pitino is clearly a better coach than Cooley, and Mack might be too (again, I don't know enough about his demise at Louisville to comment, but his long success in the Big East tells me he'd likely be successful). But, there's no doubt that Cooley is way more palatable to the powers that be than either Pitino or Mack. Cooley checks boxes for DeGioia that Pitino and Mack do not. Pitino has all but came out and said, "Jack, see me? I'm here, and want to get hired." If we don't get Pitino, there is a very high chance it's simply because we don't try or we mess it up. With Mack, that's not necessarily the case, as there's no indication he has interest. I still think much of the Cooley talk is a pipe dream anyway. The only reason I think it could happen is because Georgetown is probably Cooley's dream job. So, I think it could definitely happen, I just think right now, today, it's less likely than not. |
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Mar 7, 2023 14:32:17 GMT -5
I think you can make reasonable cases for both Mack & Cooley. They're both guys who have been successful Big East coaches, and for me, that carries a lot of weight. Throw Holtmann in that same group too, if he becomes available. Guys who have won consistently, in THIS league and within the last few years, feel like pretty safe bets. Mack (and potentially Holtmann) have the benefit of not having a buyout, which could be pretty important given how much money we will be paying the current guy to go away. Pros for Cooley include the fact that he has experience with inheriting a struggling program and turning it around, and also the fact that (imho) he feels like a much easier guy to root for than Mack. But ultimately I would not object to any of the 3, and I think all 3 would be better at Georgetown than they were at PC/XU/Butler. Once we finally get our act together here and restore balance to the force, I think any of those guys can return us to our rightful place at the top of this league.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Mar 7, 2023 14:33:22 GMT -5
Here's a trivia question for the Cooley fans: how many times, in 17 years of head coaching, has Ed Cooley's team been ranked in the final AP top 25? Dormant anti-Cooley boya is back and wide awake! 🤣 The guy is just so overrated by the people on this board, and I don't understand why. I get that he's likable and I actually thought he did a really nice job with his roster last season. However, for the vast majority of his career, he hasn't accomplished squat. Yet some people around here act like he's the second coming of John Wooden. By the way, the answer to the trivia question is 1. 1 time in 17 years has Cooley's team been ranked in the final AP top 25. |
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TC
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Post by TC on Mar 7, 2023 14:39:36 GMT -5
KenPom Mack vs. Cooley in full seasons since 2011-2012 (Cooley's 1st Year at Providence) 2012: Xavier (53), Providence (126) 2013: Xavier (78), Providence (69) Cooley took over a 15-17 Providence team that year. You're looking at this in an entirely context-free manner where Mack starts with a team that won 23 the year before, and Cooley starts with a Providence team that won 4 games in the Big East. Cooley's a better coach - especially for the 2-win situation we're in right now. |
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 7, 2023 14:39:41 GMT -5
Cooley concerns me. It could create animosity between two of the Catholic 7. I don’t think that’s good for the BE with the TV contract negotiations coming up. DeGioia is going to face a lot of heat, so it better be dressed up nicely by a top-notch PR firm. Rest assured, Providence would be our main frenemy from now on.
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TC
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Post by TC on Mar 7, 2023 14:41:47 GMT -5
Cooley concerns me. It could create animosity between two of the Catholic 7. I don’t think that’s good for the BE with the TV contract negotiations coming up. I do. RIVALRY WEEK! |
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Mar 7, 2023 14:42:20 GMT -5
KenPom Mack vs. Cooley in full seasons since 2011-2012 (Cooley's 1st Year at Providence) 2012: Xavier (53), Providence (126) 2013: Xavier (78), Providence (69) Cooley took over a 15-17 Providence team that year. You're looking at this in an entirely context-free manner where Mack starts with a team that won 23 the year before, and Cooley starts with a Providence team that won 4 games in the Big East. Cooley's a better coach - especially for the 2-win situation we're in right now. OK, TC declared it - Cooley's a better coach than Chris Mack despite all evidence to the contrary. I'll stand down now, TC has come down from on high and made his ruling. |
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Mar 7, 2023 14:44:02 GMT -5
Chris Mack doesn't want to be on the east coast and his personality is not a fit for Georgetown and they both probably are aware of it. The guy was a highly successful coach in both the Big East and ACC, yet his personality can't fit in the East Coast or at Georgetown - makes sense. So if we're limiting ourselves to coaches that have good personality fits (whatever that means), who are left as our options? |
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guru
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Post by guru on Mar 7, 2023 14:50:27 GMT -5
Cooley took over a 15-17 Providence team that year. You're looking at this in an entirely context-free manner where Mack starts with a team that won 23 the year before, and Cooley starts with a Providence team that won 4 games in the Big East. Cooley's a better coach - especially for the 2-win situation we're in right now. OK, TC declared it - Cooley's a better coach than Chris Mack despite all evidence to the contrary. I'll stand down now, TC has come down from on high and made his ruling. LOL |
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alleninxis
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Post by alleninxis on Mar 7, 2023 14:57:21 GMT -5
Chris Mack doesn't want to be on the east coast and his personality is not a fit for Georgetown and they both probably are aware of it. The guy was a highly successful coach in both the Big East and ACC, yet his personality can't fit in the East Coast or at Georgetown - makes sense. So if we're limiting ourselves to coaches that have good personality fits (whatever that means), who are left as our options? He got fired at Louisville largely because he was not well liked. People do not like him. Is that good enough? He's a MAGA jackass. |
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Mar 7, 2023 14:57:27 GMT -5
Chris Mack is not at all a fit at Georgetown. Same reason Ole Miss isn't inquiring about Ed Cooley. I don't totally disagree with where you're coming from, but part of the goal here should be clearing the slate of any lingering preconceptions of what Georgetown Basketball is. We should be a tabula rasa right now, and we should be in search of someone who can build this thing in a new way. I don't think Mack fits with what Georgetown has been--neither does Randy Bennett, Pat Kelsey, Grant McCasland or others in different ways, but I think all should be considered. I WANT somebody who is different, and somebody who is going to come in and tear this thing down to the studs and rebuild it their way. I'm not saying Mack is definitely that guy, but I don't want to disqualify anybody for "fit" reasons when the goal is for them to completely overhaul things and build the program in their own image (which of course they'll fit into). Fit is only a concern when you're hanging on to the way things have traditionally been done in some shape or form. Also--with apologies to all for being one of those people--but people would have said John Thompson Jr. wasn't "at all a fit" back in the 70s too. If you're good enough, you do it your own way and everyone else can get on board. |
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smokeyjack
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Post by smokeyjack on Mar 7, 2023 15:05:19 GMT -5
Chris Mack is not at all a fit at Georgetown. Same reason Ole Miss isn't inquiring about Ed Cooley. Bingo - what part of we aren’t hiring a white guy with serious baggage is confusing to folks? I think it’s important to Jack and others to maintain GU’s legacy of progressive thinking and racial equity. I also think they care about perception. I think they want the narrative to be “Pat Ewing failed, not GU’s commitment to coaches of color failed.” I just think people are kidding themselves if they think we are going from a family guy to a dirty white dude like Rick P. Personally, I’d be delighted if we did a 180. But I think too many people would see that as a slap in the face of the JTJr legacy. |
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Post by oldhoyafan3 on Mar 7, 2023 15:13:12 GMT -5
Chris Mack is not at all a fit at Georgetown. Same reason Ole Miss isn't inquiring about Ed Cooley. Bingo - what part of we aren’t hiring a white guy with serious baggage is confusing to folks? Oof. JT Jr. was my hero growing up but I hope we hire the person who can get us back to winning a LOT and not just an occasional NCAA bid, regardless of what they look like. |
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Mar 7, 2023 15:37:58 GMT -5
I think you can make reasonable cases for both Mack & Cooley. They're both guys who have been successful Big East coaches, and for me, that carries a lot of weight. Throw Holtmann in that same group too, if he becomes available. Guys who have won consistently, in THIS league and within the last few years, feel like pretty safe bets. Mack (and potentially Holtmann) have the benefit of not having a buyout, which could be pretty important given how much money we will be paying the current guy to go away. Pros for Cooley include the fact that he has experience with inheriting a struggling program and turning it around, and also the fact that (imho) he feels like a much easier guy to root for than Mack. But ultimately I would not object to any of the 3, and I think all 3 would be better at Georgetown than they were at PC/XU/Butler. Once we finally get our act together here and restore balance to the force, I think any of those guys can return us to our rightful place at the top of this league. KenPom Holtmann vs. Cooley in full seasons since 2014-2015 (Holtmann's 1st Year at Butler) 2015: Butler (20), Providence (27) 2016: Butler (30), Providence (44) 2017: Butler (25), Providence (60) 2018: Ohio State (16), Providence (63) 2019: Ohio State (44), Providence (79) 2020: Ohio State (8), Providence (40) 2021: Ohio State (11), Providence (80) 2022: Ohio State (31), Providence (32) KenPom Average: Holtmann (23.1), Cooley (53.1) Even this year, a season that might get him fired, Holtmann's Ohio State is sitting at KenPom 57, compared to the great Ed Cooley's Providence Friars at 44. |
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Mar 7, 2023 15:43:20 GMT -5
The guy was a highly successful coach in both the Big East and ACC, yet his personality can't fit in the East Coast or at Georgetown - makes sense. So if we're limiting ourselves to coaches that have good personality fits (whatever that means), who are left as our options? He got fired at Louisville largely because he was not well liked. People do not like him. Is that good enough? He's a MAGA jackass. What proof of being a "MAGA jackass" is there and do you believe whatever political beliefs a person may have are qualifying/disqualifying as it relates to being a basketball coach? Who are your top candidates and is being "well-liked" a key consideration for the hire if you were involved in the decision? |
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