hoyajinx
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Post by hoyajinx on Nov 10, 2024 10:11:40 GMT -5
He definitely turned out his base, while Democrats simply didn’t. A state like New Jersey is telling: Trump received nearly an identical number of votes while Harris received 500,000 less than Biden. I don’t know if Trump won tons of converts, as a lot of his totals are the same, but proportionally he trounced Harris because of depressed Democratic turnout. Like you noted, going hard on Gaza or moving further left would have done either nothing, or, as I suspect, given her fewer votes. One must leave open the possibility that a tragi-comically bad candidate (0 votes in 2020) appointed through fiat, lost a lot of support for those two reasons. I think you overstate how bad of a candidate she was (even though she probably wouldn’t have been in my top 20), but I’m sure both her suitability as a leading party candidate and her ultimate selection as that candidate probably rubbed people the wrong way. |
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Nov 10, 2024 10:25:27 GMT -5
One must leave open the possibility that a tragi-comically bad candidate (0 votes in 2020) appointed through fiat, lost a lot of support for those two reasons. I think you overstate how bad of a candidate she was (even though she probably wouldn’t have been in my top 20), but I’m sure both her suitability as a leading party candidate and her ultimate selection as that candidate probably rubbed people the wrong way. Whatever the root causes, if she only lost 6 million Biden voters, this is a different discussion. She hemorrhaged 10+ Million 2020 votes. Trump broke even. |
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Nov 10, 2024 12:24:16 GMT -5
I think you overstate how bad of a candidate she was (even though she probably wouldn’t have been in my top 20), but I’m sure both her suitability as a leading party candidate and her ultimate selection as that candidate probably rubbed people the wrong way. Whatever the root causes, if she only lost 6 million Biden voters, this is a different discussion. She hemorrhaged 10+ Million 2020 votes. Trump broke even. Truth is Biden wasn’t getting to 81 million votes again, the case could easily be made that his results would have been even worse than the VP's considering how bad his approval ratings and polling were at the time he dropped out. My Senator broke it down well in this thread. #6 & #7 especially |
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hoyajinx
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Post by hoyajinx on Nov 10, 2024 13:39:44 GMT -5
Whatever the root causes, if she only lost 6 million Biden voters, this is a different discussion. She hemorrhaged 10+ Million 2020 votes. Trump broke even. Truth is Biden wasn’t getting to 81 million votes again, the case could easily be made that his results would have been even worse than the VP's considering how bad his approval ratings and polling were at the time he dropped out. My Senator broke it down well in this thread. #6 & #7 especially What are #6 and #7 (I don’t have twitter to see)? |
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 10, 2024 13:46:19 GMT -5
Truth is Biden wasn’t getting to 81 million votes again, the case could easily be made that his results would have been even worse than the VP's considering how bad his approval ratings and polling were at the time he dropped out. My Senator broke it down well in this thread. #6 & #7 especially What are #6 and #7 (I don’t have twitter to see)? |
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 10, 2024 13:50:02 GMT -5
I think you overstate how bad of a candidate she was (even though she probably wouldn’t have been in my top 20), but I’m sure both her suitability as a leading party candidate and her ultimate selection as that candidate probably rubbed people the wrong way. Whatever the root causes, if she only lost 6 million Biden voters, this is a different discussion. She hemorrhaged 10+ Million 2020 votes. Trump broke even. You can quibble all you want about how bad a candidate she may or may not have been, but this is the root problem. |
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Nov 10, 2024 14:11:04 GMT -5
Whatever the root causes, if she only lost 6 million Biden voters, this is a different discussion. She hemorrhaged 10+ Million 2020 votes. Trump broke even. You can quibble all you want about how bad a candidate she may or may not have been, but this is the root problem. No substantial argument here Dan but 11 Million Democrat Voters stayed home. So either the messaging was subpar or those 11 Million couldn’t be bothered to vote. |
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 10, 2024 14:15:53 GMT -5
The oddest thing: a large number of those 11 million democrats voted down ballot democrats in for governorships and senate / house seats and this happened in almost all the swing states. What’s your explanation for that?
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Nov 10, 2024 14:35:31 GMT -5
Whatever the root causes, if she only lost 6 million Biden voters, this is a different discussion. She hemorrhaged 10+ Million 2020 votes. Trump broke even. You can quibble all you want about how bad a candidate she may or may not have been, but this is the root problem. Is it truly a problem that the Republican leadership gives its base the candidates they want? This is the essence of what Kristol is saying here: He's making the case that Democratic leadership stepped in when Bernie was gaining momentum in 2016 and 2024, unlike the Republicans who allowed the process to play out on their side. |
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Nov 10, 2024 14:35:36 GMT -5
The oddest thing: a large number of those 11 million democrats voted down ballot democrats in for governorships and senate / house seats and this happened in almost all the swing states. What’s your explanation for that? If Trump got 74 Million last time and a shade higher this time, and Biden got 81 Million last time while Harris drew only 70-71 million, there are still 10-11 Million voters missing. If she underperformed the down ballot candidates, that would seem to speak to her own awful performance, no? |
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 10, 2024 16:21:58 GMT -5
That doesn’t hold water for me. I can see some, but not to the degree you’re attributing it. Your mileage may vary.
I will agree that misogyny and racism in choosing a presidential candidate were major factors in the result.
I also agree the top ballot results are what they are (assuming all the outstanding ongoing counts hold). America will get what it deserves as a result. What America gets will be a surprise to quite a bit of the majority vote but it’s difficult to feel sorry for them.
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guru
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Post by guru on Nov 10, 2024 17:36:02 GMT -5
The oddest thing: a large number of those 11 million democrats voted down ballot democrats in for governorships and senate / house seats and this happened in almost all the swing states. What’s your explanation for that? If Trump got 74 Million last time and a shade higher this time, and Biden got 81 Million last time while Harris drew only 70-71 million, there are still 10-11 Million voters missing. If she underperformed the down ballot candidates, that would seem to speak to her own awful performance, no? It’s amazing how this poster always has everything figured out. He should take his prognostications and bloviating to a larger audience. The world could really learn from him. It feels wrong for him to simply exist as a troll on a college sports board. |
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Nov 10, 2024 17:48:17 GMT -5
If Trump got 74 Million last time and a shade higher this time, and Biden got 81 Million last time while Harris drew only 70-71 million, there are still 10-11 Million voters missing. If she underperformed the down ballot candidates, that would seem to speak to her own awful performance, no? It’s amazing how this poster always has everything figured out. He should take his prognostications and bloviating to a larger audience. The world could really learn from him. It feels wrong for him to simply exist as a troll on a college sports board. I predicted and prognosticated nothing. I am looking at numbers and this is what I believe they say. If you have another interpretation, I am all ears. |
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Nov 10, 2024 23:45:10 GMT -5
It’s amazing how this poster always has everything figured out. He should take his prognostications and bloviating to a larger audience. The world could really learn from him. It feels wrong for him to simply exist as a troll on a college sports board. I predicted and prognosticated nothing. I am looking at numbers and this is what I believe they say. If you have another interpretation, I am all ears. My interpretation is that we're regressing and getting worse as a result of hate and stupidity that is championed by the Right. Sure, you can say that the Dems didn't convince people with their direction. But, for Trump to have GAINED voters as a convicted felon, fraudster and sexual predator while openly denigrating the Constitution, the problem is FAR larger than Trump. And, stupidity and hate aren't easily or quickly fixed. The inmates are, officially, going to be running the asylum. Unfortunately, the "asylum" is (or was) the most powerful country on the planet. |
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Nov 11, 2024 5:09:47 GMT -5
I predicted and prognosticated nothing. I am looking at numbers and this is what I believe they say. If you have another interpretation, I am all ears. My interpretation is that we're regressing and getting worse as a result of hate and stupidity that is championed by the Right. Sure, you can say that the Dems didn't convince people with their direction. But, for Trump to have GAINED voters as a convicted felon, fraudster and sexual predator while openly denigrating the Constitution, the problem is FAR larger than Trump. And, stupidity and hate aren't easily or quickly fixed. The inmates are, officially, going to be running the asylum. Unfortunately, the "asylum" is (or was) the most powerful country on the planet. Make sure to carry your umbrella because the sky is clearly falling. I hope you can come to grips with having to live after your preferred candidate does not win. |
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 11, 2024 10:11:21 GMT -5
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 11, 2024 19:46:21 GMT -5
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Post by jumpshooter on Nov 11, 2024 22:54:42 GMT -5
The oddest thing: a large number of those 11 million democrats voted down ballot democrats in for governorships and senate / house seats and this happened in almost all the swing states. What’s your explanation for that? It’s easy to say racism and sexism, which I’m sure played some role here, but we’d be overlooking the degree to which many Democrats are turned off by the administration’s ongoing funding of genocide. Millions of voters of all ages are disgusted with the stern talking-to old Joe keeps giving the Israelis with absolutely nothing to show for it. It’s performative only, and while I still voted for the lesser of two evils, I believe millions of other would-be Harris supporters chose not to. Harris had three months to distance herself from Biden and did nothing. Guardian columnist Moustafa Bayoumi wrote about this today and it’s worth a read. The column is entitled “Not changing course on Gaza was a colossal mistake by Kamala Harris.” www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/nov/11/election-harris-gaza-policy |
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Nov 11, 2024 23:35:31 GMT -5
My interpretation is that we're regressing and getting worse as a result of hate and stupidity that is championed by the Right. Sure, you can say that the Dems didn't convince people with their direction. But, for Trump to have GAINED voters as a convicted felon, fraudster and sexual predator while openly denigrating the Constitution, the problem is FAR larger than Trump. And, stupidity and hate aren't easily or quickly fixed. The inmates are, officially, going to be running the asylum. Unfortunately, the "asylum" is (or was) the most powerful country on the planet. Make sure to carry your umbrella because the sky is clearly falling. I hope you can come to grips with having to live after your preferred candidate does not win. Elvado, I remember the days when you were a caring human asking for love, compassion and support. By your own account, you received exactly that. I hope you can explain to Harry why you have so little for others and voted accordingnly. I also would like you to respond to this thread again in a few years when what you voted for comes to fruition and the Dems can't be to blame because they have no say. I got up and went to work on Wednesday because sh!t happens and elections don't go your way all of the time. In other words, I'm an adult. The sky isn't falling. At least, not yet. If it does, we know who to blame. But, everyone here knows that if things get as bad as Trump and Musk have promised, you won't be here defending anything just as you never voiced support for whom you voted. It comes off as pathetic and lacking in integrity, IMO. But, please keep trying to make jokes. FYI, you've never been funny. |
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Nov 12, 2024 5:04:34 GMT -5
Make sure to carry your umbrella because the sky is clearly falling. I hope you can come to grips with having to live after your preferred candidate does not win. Elvado, I remember the days when you were a caring human asking for love, compassion and support. By your own account, you received exactly that. I hope you can explain to Harry why you have so little for others and voted accordingnly. I also would like you to respond to this thread again in a few years when what you voted for comes to fruition and the Dems can't be to blame because they have no say. I got up and went to work on Wednesday because sh!t happens and elections don't go your way all of the time. In other words, I'm an adult. The sky isn't falling. At least, not yet. If it does, we know who to blame. But, everyone here knows that if things get as bad as Trump and Musk have promised, you won't be here defending anything just as you never voiced support for whom you voted. It comes off as pathetic and lacking in integrity, IMO. But, please keep trying to make jokes. FYI, you've never been funny. And again, I wish you peace recognizing that people can disagree. |
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