617hoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 254
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Post by 617hoya on Apr 6, 2022 11:11:53 GMT -5
I’m getting the sense all this discussion is for naught.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2022 11:12:36 GMT -5
A better coach wouldn’t have had this roster to begin with. Of course and he’s responsible for both so it’s not a defense of Ewing. You guys are missing the point. I'm just stating the very real fact that since there’s not going to be a change we need to prioritize upgrading the talent. And no matter who the coach is you need talent to win in college basketball. There’s no coach I know of who can turn water to wine. I personally don’t think it’s a controversial stance but it is what it is I guess…
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Post by hoyas4lyfe on Apr 6, 2022 11:27:52 GMT -5
Yea this isn’t gonna happen.
Pumped for us to roll with HC - Ewing AC - Nickeberry AC - Crouch AC - Orr DoBO - Howzie
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 15,233
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Post by EtomicB on Apr 6, 2022 12:54:20 GMT -5
A better coach wouldn’t have had this roster to begin with. Of course and he’s responsible for both so it’s not a defense of Ewing. You guys are missing the point. It’s just stating the very real fact that since there’s not going to be a change we need to prioritize upgrading the talent. And no matter who the coach is you need talent to win in college basketball. There’s no coach I know of who can turn water to wine. I personally don’t think it’s a controversial stance but it is what it is I guess… I get that a coach needs talent to win, especially to win big however a coach doesn't need a lot of talent to play decent basketball.. Lack of talent didn't hold Gtown back from playing a more cohesive, fundamental or sound way especially defensively. If PE gets more talent but coaches in the same manner the results will be mediocre at best
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bigskyhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,100
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Post by bigskyhoya on Apr 6, 2022 13:02:19 GMT -5
A better coach wouldn’t have had this roster to begin with. Of course and he’s responsible for both so it’s not a defense of Ewing. You guys are missing the point. It’s just stating the very real fact that since there’s not going to be a change we need to prioritize upgrading the talent. And no matter who the coach is you need talent to win in college basketball. There’s no coach I know of who can turn water to wine. I personally don’t think it’s a controversial stance but it is what it is I guess… It isn’t one or the other. We need better talent and a better coach. Better coaching can make a difference even when a team has little talent on paper, see Saint Peter’s. But since we are stuck with this coach, of course we need better talent.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2022 13:14:15 GMT -5
Of course and he’s responsible for both so it’s not a defense of Ewing. You guys are missing the point. It’s just stating the very real fact that since there’s not going to be a change we need to prioritize upgrading the talent. And no matter who the coach is you need talent to win in college basketball. There’s no coach I know of who can turn water to wine. I personally don’t think it’s a controversial stance but it is what it is I guess… I get that a coach needs talent to win, especially to win big however a coach doesn't need a lot of talent to play decent basketball.. Lack of talent didn't hold Gtown back from playing a more cohesive, fundamental or sound way especially defensively. If PE gets more talent but coaches in the same manner the results will be mediocre at best Mediocre at best would be a serious upgrade. I don’t think you get there by adding a tactician to the staff while keeping the talent at a similar level or even a slight upgrade.
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RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,143
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Post by RBHoya on Apr 6, 2022 13:16:04 GMT -5
I hope it pans out with Pegues. I don't have an intimate knowledge of what he has added at previous stops, but his reputation is that he checks both boxes (recruiting and actual coaching). On the surface it makes sense, since it's hard to see what his other options are. If you're Chris Mack and you were making $4mm/year, taking a year off to survey the landscape and being a hot candidate next spring makes sense. But Pegues wasn't making that kind of money as an assistant, so you'd think he'd want to work rather than taking a gap year. Obviously he wanted the GW head job but that's off the table. Are there any other better landing spots for him right now? Obviously our situation is.... not exactly ideal with the current state of the program, but if we're paying alright it seems like a decent place to be in the short-term. Even if his long-term plan is to reconnect with Mack next spring or make a play for the head coaching job at American or somewhere like that, doing a year at Georgetown at least keeps him paid and keeps him relevant for that kind of a move.
Hopefully it's just negotiation and it works out this week. If not, I think we need to move on Jordan Brooks and get to work.
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Post by fullcourtpress on Apr 6, 2022 13:45:37 GMT -5
Transfers are happening EVERYWHERE! got just here with PE. look at Akinjo, LeBlanc they're on their 2nd schools since leaving GTown. Wahab is in the portal AGAIN! this is the current state of college basketball. This has NOTHING to do with PE. I hope they can come to an agreement with Mike Pegues. I grew up playing AAU with Mike and my source is as good as source as can be on the situation . Even if they do get Mike I would still add someone like Osman Bangura of Team Durant. I played HS ball went him. Any area coach needs to hire a top person from a top local AAU program period. That's how you get the kids. AAU is more important than HS basketball. That's Pat's biggest Mistake. He didn't come from the AAU ERA. It's not a Xs & Os issue. Again he has flaws, like why didn't he press the entire game? They played wayyyy better when pressing. He would wait until desperation time. College is different from the pros. He's learning. I think some of yall think the program is bigger than it is. We can't just get any coach we want. You guys are delusional a little bit. This isn't the 80s.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 15,233
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Post by EtomicB on Apr 6, 2022 16:29:00 GMT -5
I get that a coach needs talent to win, especially to win big however a coach doesn't need a lot of talent to play decent basketball.. Lack of talent didn't hold Gtown back from playing a more cohesive, fundamental or sound way especially defensively. If PE gets more talent but coaches in the same manner the results will be mediocre at best Mediocre at best would be a serious upgrade. I don’t think you get there by adding a tactician to the staff while keeping the talent at a similar level or even a slight upgrade. It would be a serious upgrade for this last season without doubt but not so much for his previous years. This example is extreme but you really don't think a Pitino lead staff would only improve this team by 4 wins?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2022 17:36:30 GMT -5
Mediocre at best would be a serious upgrade. I don’t think you get there by adding a tactician to the staff while keeping the talent at a similar level or even a slight upgrade. It would be a serious upgrade for this last season without doubt but not so much for his previous years. This example is extreme but you really don't think a Pitino lead staff would only improve this team by 4 wins? In conference? Yeah, about that. How did he do coaching lesser talent with the Celtics? He looked well below average. You need dudes.
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,477
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Post by TC on Apr 6, 2022 18:27:09 GMT -5
A better coach wouldn’t have had this roster to begin with. Of course and he’s responsible for both so it’s not a defense of Ewing. You guys are missing the point. I'm just stating the very real fact that since there’s not going to be a change we need to prioritize upgrading the talent. And no matter who the coach is you need talent to win in college basketball. There’s no coach I know of who can turn water to wine. I personally don’t think it’s a controversial stance but it is what it is I guess… What if you run off too many players and you end up with the freshman version of Ighoefe or Wilson, rather than the senior version?
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IDenj
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,532
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Post by IDenj on Apr 6, 2022 18:29:20 GMT -5
I don’t know what’s more painful between the Hoyas going 0-20 in conference or constantly wading thru pages of the same stupid arguments in a thread.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2022 18:40:07 GMT -5
Of course and he’s responsible for both so it’s not a defense of Ewing. You guys are missing the point. I'm just stating the very real fact that since there’s not going to be a change we need to prioritize upgrading the talent. And no matter who the coach is you need talent to win in college basketball. There’s no coach I know of who can turn water to wine. I personally don’t think it’s a controversial stance but it is what it is I guess… What if you run off too many players and you end up with the freshman version of Ighoefe or Wilson, rather than the senior version? How does this relate to the point I'm making? I understand folks have an ax to grind but stuff like this is why it's hard to have good honest basketball discussions on this board. However if you want to go there, you have to acknowledge the fact that if you had recruited a higher level player losing a guy like Q wouldn't hurt as much because you would have had a talented guy who was capable of replacing him. That being said I mean no disrespect to those guys. They're good kids, who played hard, and did the best they could with what they have.
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,477
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Post by TC on Apr 6, 2022 18:57:42 GMT -5
What if you run off too many players and you end up with the freshman version of Ighoefe or Wilson, rather than the senior version? How does this relate to the point I'm making? I don't think your point is right that it's a talent problem - the most success we've had has been with moderately talented graduate students like Allen and Carey that other people have developed, or with our own seniors. I think experience matters moreso than talent - and experience somewhere else because our program is so horrible at developing and retaining freshmen. I also think we're going to get burned pushing out too many kids and not being able to pull in upgrades for everyone.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2022 19:17:14 GMT -5
How does this relate to the point I'm making? I don't think your point is right that it's a talent problem - the most success we've had has been with moderately talented graduate students like Allen and Carey that other people have developed, or with our own seniors. I think experience matters moreso than talent - and experience somewhere else because our program is so horrible at developing and retaining freshmen. I also think we're going to get burned pushing out too many kids and not being able to pull in upgrades for everyone. ? Carey was a significantly better player last year than when he arrived here. I think Collin, Blair, Pickett, and Q all improved significantly in their time here tbh but that’s another subject. Just so we’re clear my point is at this moment the most important thing for the program to do is upgrade the talent level. Is that what you’re disagreeing with because based on your post above I’m not sure.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,652
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Post by guru on Apr 6, 2022 19:41:06 GMT -5
I don't think your point is right that it's a talent problem - the most success we've had has been with moderately talented graduate students like Allen and Carey that other people have developed, or with our own seniors. I think experience matters moreso than talent - and experience somewhere else because our program is so horrible at developing and retaining freshmen. I also think we're going to get burned pushing out too many kids and not being able to pull in upgrades for everyone. ? Carey was a significantly better player last year than when he arrived here. I think Collin, Blair, Pickett, and Q all improved significantly in their time here tbh but that’s another subject. Just so we’re clear my point is at this moment the most important thing for the program to do is upgrade the talent level. Is that what you’re disagreeing with because based on your post above I’m not sure. Attempting to get clarity from TC is like trying to count the grains of sand on a beach. It might be theoretically possible, but it’s going to take a while. Edited.--Admin
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 15,233
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Post by EtomicB on Apr 6, 2022 20:21:45 GMT -5
It would be a serious upgrade for this last season without doubt but not so much for his previous years. This example is extreme but you really don't think a Pitino lead staff would only improve this team by 4 wins? In conference? Yeah, about that. How did he do coaching lesser talent with the Celtics? He looked well below average. You need dudes. NBA & College are far different IMO but I guess we have to agree to disagree then. As I've stated many a time gimme coaching over recruiting cause at the end of the day a staff's primary duty is to get the most out of the kids on the roster.
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Post by Problem of Dog on Apr 6, 2022 20:40:18 GMT -5
Upgrading the talent level in the program should be priority #1. Doesn't matter who your coach is if you don't have the horses to compete. Talent wins in college basketball. You could have had the best coach in the world and he probably pulls around 4 conference wins out of last years team tops. I doubt many would find that acceptable. Have to upgrade the talent then you can focus on the other parts. If "Talent wins in college basketball" (it does, you're right), then a coach's #1 job should be getting talent. Beyond his miserable coaching, Ewing has recruited at an abysmal level. Shockingly bad. I follow recruiting pretty closely and more than half of our signees under Ewing are guys I had never heard of.
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hoyaguy
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,929
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Post by hoyaguy on Apr 6, 2022 20:49:22 GMT -5
It would be a serious upgrade for this last season without doubt but not so much for his previous years. This example is extreme but you really don't think a Pitino lead staff would only improve this team by 4 wins? In conference? Yeah, about that. How did he do coaching lesser talent with the Celtics? He looked well below average. You need dudes. NBA is a very different situation such as having GMs I know I’m crossing years here but for context Iona in pitino’s first year (20/21) wins their conference and goes toe to toe with Alabama until towards the end and sure loses by 13 after 1 point spread at the half. 8 months later he beats them in a rematch. And this year we lost to butler by 14, if we had played Alabama of that season with this team, we would’ve been humiliated on a whole other level without a doubt in my mind. And I don’t know the specifics of that Iona team in like recruiting rankings but I find it hard to believe that they were significantly more talented than this group, if at all more talented. Coaching absolutely matters and a coach especially a new one needs to be able to makes changes and define a style and a good environment for players. If you need a team full of 4 star and 5 star recruits to make the tournament or even NIT then you are in the wrong business.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2022 20:54:48 GMT -5
Upgrading the talent level in the program should be priority #1. Doesn't matter who your coach is if you don't have the horses to compete. Talent wins in college basketball. You could have had the best coach in the world and he probably pulls around 4 conference wins out of last years team tops. I doubt many would find that acceptable. Have to upgrade the talent then you can focus on the other parts. If "Talent wins in college basketball" (it does, you're right), then a coach's #1 job should be getting talent. Beyond his miserable coaching, Ewing has recruited at an abysmal level. Shockingly bad. I follow recruiting pretty closely and more than half of our signees under Ewing are guys I had never heard of. This is something I said earlier in the thread.
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