hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Nov 27, 2021 8:47:54 GMT -5
The thing is, we aren't really that young of a team in terms of who plays minutes. I get that you can find ways to term us young (it's Rice's first year with us, Tim has barely played before now, Dante is only a SO, etc). And, yes, Aminu is a true FR. But you can't hope your youth grows up without giving them the chance to.
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Nov 27, 2021 9:06:00 GMT -5
He has value but I am ready for Riley to take more of his minutes and learn to play at this level. Carey is the better player. You play your best players. Yeah I saw last night that Jordan isn't ready for the moment and it would do more damage if we force feed him minutes. Some freshmen are ready for minutes (Aminu), some aren't quite ready but can handle being force fed (JBills, Ryan) and some you need to bring along slower (Jordan and to a lesser extent Tyler). I think Jordan will be a pro but he needs the game to slow down a lot. It's little things but it's a lot of little things.
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hoyarad
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Post by hoyarad on Nov 27, 2021 9:19:22 GMT -5
Carey is the better player. You play your best players. Yeah I saw last night that Jordan isn't ready for the moment and it would do more damage if we force feed him minutes. Some freshmen are ready for minutes (Aminu), some aren't quite ready but can handle being force fed (JBills, Ryan) and some you need to bring along slower (Jordan and to a lesser extent Tyler). I think Jordan will be a pro but he needs the game to slow down a lot. It's little things but it's a lot of little things. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ And you've determined this by watching him for how long?!?
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rhw485
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Post by rhw485 on Nov 27, 2021 9:37:24 GMT -5
Frustrating performance against a team we should’ve been able to beat.
To me this game summarized a difference in philosophies. St Joe’s was really trying to keep Dante out of middle of the court. He makes a decent enough clip but every long 2 without a pass is a win for St Joe’s. He did a better job in the 2nd half of forcing his way into the middle of court and paint but I’m not sure I’ve ever seen less passes from a collective team (not just Dante). Meanwhile our defense doesn’t try to dictate anything to the opponent, outside of occasionally pressing. There’s little resistance at point of attack, overhelping, and then not enough rotations to stop a wide open 3. And we never switch screens so it’s easy to run Funk all around and he’ll find a spot. The play at the end for the lob was set up by all the issues all game. Aminu couldn’t leave Funk, so they used him as a screener. Carey gets picked off and it’s curtains w a lob.
The other obvious issue is the freshmen, and Ewing is in a catch 22. He tries to expand the rotation in the 1st half, and it hasn’t worked. Riley and Billingsley don’t add enough in half court. Ryan isn’t strong enough on d. Beard hasn’t been terrible but also isn’t really impacting the game and Dante has been our offense. So now you’re down double digits and you have to tighten the rotation, play the best guys and mount a furious comeback. Except you run out of gas. The Dartmouth game played out the exact same way.
So do you play the freshmen even when they’re not helping as you build? Can you convince them to buy in with limited playing time? That comes down to culture, it’s easy to sell that at Nova. If you play your best players and lose anyway, does it matter? It’s basically the same issue from last year except these freshmen are more heralded. Yes it all came together for Ewing in March. If we had lost to Nova w a healthy Gillespie would it really have made sense? Does trying to thread the needle make everyone mad? After last year I feel like the answer has to be just play to win, but if this core doesn’t stay together it feels like the end.
Tough questions, I have no view on the answer but it’s what’s going to loom over this season.
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 27, 2021 10:03:07 GMT -5
Frustrating performance against a team we should’ve been able to beat. To me this game summarized a difference in philosophies. St Joe’s was really trying to keep Dante out of middle of the court. He makes a decent enough clip but every long 2 without a pass is a win for St Joe’s. He did a better job in the 2nd half of forcing his way into the middle of court and paint but I’m not sure I’ve ever seen less passes from a collective team (not just Dante). Meanwhile our defense doesn’t try to dictate anything to the opponent, outside of occasionally pressing. There’s little resistance at point of attack, overhelping, and then not enough rotations to stop a wide open 3. And we never switch screens so it’s easy to run Funk all around and he’ll find a spot. The play at the end for the lob was set up by all the issues all game. Aminu couldn’t leave Funk, so they used him as a screener. Carey gets picked off and it’s curtains w a lob. The other obvious issue is the freshmen, and Ewing is in a catch 22. He tries to expand the rotation in the 1st half, and it hasn’t worked. Riley and Billingsley don’t add enough in half court. Ryan isn’t strong enough on d. Beard hasn’t been terrible but also isn’t really impacting the game and Dante has been our offense. So now you’re down double digits and you have to tighten the rotation, play the best guys and mount a furious comeback. Except you run out of gas. The Dartmouth game played out the exact same way. So do you play the freshmen even when they’re not helping as you build? Can you convince them to buy in with limited playing time? That comes down to culture, it’s easy to sell that at Nova. If you play your best players and lose anyway, does it matter? It’s basically the same issue from last year except these freshmen are more heralded. Yes it all came together for Ewing in March. If we had lost to Nova w a healthy Gillespie would it really have made sense? Does trying to thread the needle make everyone mad? After last year I feel like the answer has to be just play to win, but if this core doesn’t stay together it feels like the end. Tough questions, I have no view on the answer but it’s what’s going to loom over this season. I know this isn't going to be popular except with our Russian friend hoyaboya, but Dante is becoming too ball dominant and isn't passing or setting up people enough. IMO, the point guard should never lead the team in shot attempts. Last year we started to do well when everyone, especially Javhon (who is too ball dominant) and started to buy in by passing the ball and getting everyone involved. Another problem is on the defensive end, in regards to guarding threes, Dante is too short to guard alot of the 3pt shooters who can simply shoot over him like he isn't even there. Last year we had plus defenders like Jamorko and Bile who had length and could help out but this year Rice seems to be at best an average defender/athlete and Carey is a below average athlete. (And neither have length for their respective position.
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dchoya72
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Post by dchoya72 on Nov 27, 2021 10:06:02 GMT -5
Neither of these statements make any sense based upon his record thus far. Many of these young players don't know when they have a shot yet. Others, Aminu in particular, are a bit reckless. I love his motor but, he has not demonstrated a solid jump shot yet. I don't know that officials will continue to bail him out when he goes down low like a bull in a china closet. Im surprised that he has such a free reign. This team is in the sausage-making phase. We still need Holloway and Kobe Clark to show up. (Don't laugh)! Tim Igoeffe grew up a little in the second half...He has to stop getting cheap fouls. He needs to be more disciplined and make his fouls count. We need a power forward! Dante is playing strong, and yes Don has to be more assertive. Kaiden is the hired gun. He will shoot us in and out of games. I actually thought Tim grew up some in the San Diego State game when he bounced back by playing almost an entire second half with no foul trouble. What is frustrating for me (and likely for him) is now he is doing all that dirty work of rebounding, blocking shots, switching, clogging lanes and hustling up and down the court only to never receive a touch of the ball on offense. I know he's no Olajuwan in the paint but he still needs to be rewarded from time to time. Dante is only making it to the hoop when Tim is out there clearing a path and yet Dante never thinks of dropping off a clean pass to the big guy when he has drawn the defense attention during his drives to the basket.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Nov 27, 2021 10:10:52 GMT -5
Statistically, this was as even a game as you could get:
FG: SJ 28-61, G 27-62 3FG: SJ 11, G 11 FT: SJ 10-16, G 9-15 TO: SJ 15, G 14 Reb: SJ 36, G 38 OReb: SJ 11, G 12 Blocks: SJ 4, G 4 Hot shooter: SJ-Funk (8 threes), G-Rice (7 threes)
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 27, 2021 10:20:10 GMT -5
I thin maybe like last year if Carey volunteers to be on the 2nd unit it solves a lot of problems by giving him more shots and then in theory upgrading the spot defensively/athletically.
Of course this is much easier with a Tre King as he could be the power forward and shift Rice to small forward with aminu and Dante.
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dchoya72
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by dchoya72 on Nov 27, 2021 10:21:53 GMT -5
I will remember these posts when our young men do turn it around! We grew up a little tonight! I am optimistic! Truly hope you are right. I posted what I see. I guess it comes down to expectations and mine were high for this team because of the hype and the progress that I saw at the end of last year when I thought that Ewing did a very good job of coaching up a team that was less talented than his prior year. As one of the few who credits Ewing with showing his coaching potential after the mass exodus and again last year after the COVID break, I still cling to the hope he can improve this group by February. There is enough talent to compete and more than enough to win games against mid-majors. It's the coaches job to bring it together. That said, we are in year 5 and we see some of the same shortcomings each year despite the turnover in players. When a team has this kind of turnover and such great loss, it becomes a significant rebuild. I think many have unfair expectations of Ewing. We need talent and continuity, and I get frustrated too, but we need better talent and some experienced power players. I think someone like King could have made a difference, but he's not here so we have to go with what we have. Little by little we will get better. It still won't be enough for some, until...who knows!
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Post by hoyaatheart55 on Nov 27, 2021 10:23:44 GMT -5
The thing is, we aren't really that young of a team in terms of who plays minutes. I get that you can find ways to term us young (it's Rice's first year with us, Tim has barely played before now, Dante is only a SO, etc). And, yes, Aminu is a true FR. But you can't hope your youth grows up without giving them the chance to. This is not a good response lol. Yes we are objectively a young team, 2 grad transfers from mid majors not withstanding.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Nov 27, 2021 10:24:25 GMT -5
For all the talk that we greatly improved last year people need to realize that the 4 game surge in the BET was bookended by two of the worst losses and most pitiful defensive performances in the Ewing era - the finale at UConn and the NCAA game vs Colorado. Yes we played better than earlier in the year the last 10 games, but the enduring problems remained. I’d much rather focus on the 100+ games of the Ewing era, rather than a magnified sample size of 4 contests at MSG to determine how well we are coached. I’m sure like many of you you’ve watched a lot of other games this week. When you watch Duke - Gonzaga, or Villanova - Purdue, or Baylor - MSU, it’s like a different sport they are playing. These are teams and games we used to be in and could compete. We are light years away from this level. We are further now from that level then the day Ewing took over, which is the most telling thing in Year 5. None of us will trade the BET title for a few more wins, as it was awesome, but it’s like we made a deal with the devil. Winning that week may have resulted in an additional 1-2 years of the same product now. Is there a scenario where this year gets so bad that we see something like the JTIII end? Does anyone really know the contract situation? Was it 6 years? If Ewing isn’t extended off this year then he’s a lame duck next year which is death for recruiting. Will the school have to tack on a year or two? I’m not rooting for us or Ewing to fail despite what I’m sure some of the posters will accuse me of. I’d love to see this get turned around, but I also would be taking a leap of faith to to think that’s going to happen. The sample size is way too big now to expect anything different than us being a Weds night team again at MSG. And even next year, if this entire roster less Carey and Rice returns (a big if given our history) I’m not so sure the talent and coaching level is good enough to be any more than a mid-tier team in the BE. After 6 years and $20mm, I’d have expected at least 1 winning season in conference. I will continue to root for the team and the coach, but I have little reason to hope things will change at this point. I agree with every word written here. Extremely well said. I haven’t been more pessimistic about the future of the program in a long time, but I really hope it turns around.
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kettlehill
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Post by kettlehill on Nov 27, 2021 10:24:44 GMT -5
From the Athletic re Dukes win over the Zags. Losing by 4, with Banchero out:
"That’s when Moore raised his voice. The Duke captain took over a team huddle at the under-12 media timeout. Mike Krzyzewski and all of his 1,176 career wins were not needed. Moore railed away, telling his teammates to be stronger with the ball, to stop allowing layups, to dial things up, to stop turning the damn ball over."
Thats a Captain
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dchoya72
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by dchoya72 on Nov 27, 2021 10:26:06 GMT -5
I was pleasantly surprised to see Tim shoot a hook shot last night! Malcolm needs to follow suit.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Nov 27, 2021 10:26:14 GMT -5
Truly hope you are right. I posted what I see. I guess it comes down to expectations and mine were high for this team because of the hype and the progress that I saw at the end of last year when I thought that Ewing did a very good job of coaching up a team that was less talented than his prior year. As one of the few who credits Ewing with showing his coaching potential after the mass exodus and again last year after the COVID break, I still cling to the hope he can improve this group by February. There is enough talent to compete and more than enough to win games against mid-majors. It's the coaches job to bring it together. That said, we are in year 5 and we see some of the same shortcomings each year despite the turnover in players. When a team has this kind of turnover and such great loss, it becomes a significant rebuild. I think many have unfair expectations of Ewing. We need talent and continuity, and I get frustrated too, but we need better talent and some experienced power players. I think someone like King could have made a difference, but he's not here so we have to go with what we have. Little by little we will get better. It still won't be enough for some, until...who knows! Part of the problem is that we are constantly in a rebuild because our best players keep transferring or leaving, or they don’t manage to even play a game before leaving. This “rebuild” excuse would have worked in 2017 or 2018. After 5 years, we shouldn’t be constantly rebuilding. And, if this season goes as bad as it seems it might, it wouldn’t shock me at all if the same thing happens after this season.
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Nov 27, 2021 10:28:42 GMT -5
Truly hope you are right. I posted what I see. I guess it comes down to expectations and mine were high for this team because of the hype and the progress that I saw at the end of last year when I thought that Ewing did a very good job of coaching up a team that was less talented than his prior year. As one of the few who credits Ewing with showing his coaching potential after the mass exodus and again last year after the COVID break, I still cling to the hope he can improve this group by February. There is enough talent to compete and more than enough to win games against mid-majors. It's the coaches job to bring it together. That said, we are in year 5 and we see some of the same shortcomings each year despite the turnover in players. When a team has this kind of turnover and such great loss, it becomes a significant rebuild. I think many have unfair expectations of Ewing. We need talent and continuity, and I get frustrated too, but we need better talent and some experienced power players. I think someone like King could have made a difference, but he's not here so we have to go with what we have. Little by little we will get better. It still won't be enough for some, until...who knows! Expecting Georgetown to beat Dartmouth and St. Joe’s is unfair? What about Longwood? Is expecting a win there aiming too high?
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 27, 2021 10:30:03 GMT -5
When a team has this kind of turnover and such great loss, it becomes a significant rebuild. I think many have unfair expectations of Ewing. We need talent and continuity, and I get frustrated too, but we need better talent and some experienced power players. I think someone like King could have made a difference, but he's not here so we have to go with what we have. Little by little we will get better. It still won't be enough for some, until...who knows! Part of the problem is that we are constantly in a rebuild because our best players keep transferring or leaving, or they don’t manage to even play a game before leaving. This “rebuild” excuse would have worked in 2017 or 2018. After 5 years, we shouldn’t be constantly rebuilding. And, if this season goes as bad as it seems it might, it wouldn’t shock me at all if the same thing happens after this season. False narrative. We were Big East champions last year. You were saying the same things at this time last year and you were completely wrong on Bile, wrong on Coach and wrong on the team.
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hoyarad
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Post by hoyarad on Nov 27, 2021 10:32:10 GMT -5
When a team has this kind of turnover and such great loss, it becomes a significant rebuild. I think many have unfair expectations of Ewing. We need talent and continuity, and I get frustrated too, but we need better talent and some experienced power players. I think someone like King could have made a difference, but he's not here so we have to go with what we have. Little by little we will get better. It still won't be enough for some, until...who knows! Expecting Georgetown to beat Dartmouth and St. Joe’s is unfair? What about Longwood? Is expecting a win there aiming too high? Longwood beat American by 40. So there's that.
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Nov 27, 2021 10:34:44 GMT -5
This is not a good response lol. Yes we are objectively a young team, 2 grad transfers from mid majors not withstanding. There are a lot of young players on the roster but they aren’t playing all that much.
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dchoya72
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by dchoya72 on Nov 27, 2021 10:34:47 GMT -5
When a team has this kind of turnover and such great loss, it becomes a significant rebuild. I think many have unfair expectations of Ewing. We need talent and continuity, and I get frustrated too, but we need better talent and some experienced power players. I think someone like King could have made a difference, but he's not here so we have to go with what we have. Little by little we will get better. It still won't be enough for some, until...who knows! Part of the problem is that we are constantly in a rebuild because our best players keep transferring or leaving, or they don’t manage to even play a game before leaving. This “rebuild” excuse would have worked in 2017 or 2018. After 5 years, we shouldn’t be constantly rebuilding. And, if this season goes as bad as it seems it might, it wouldn’t shock me at all if the same thing happens after this season. Sorry, life ain't fair. All this turnover is distressing to me too. I thought we would get more developed talent. I think one or two players, whether they stayed or came in board through recruitment would make a difference. We are not one of the blue blood teams that gets premium players and play in the national spotlight year after year. Hopefully it gets better. For those who hope for a coaching change (I'm not one of them), whoever comes in would have to bring some serious talent with them. We're improving with recruiting slowly, but still need more and better. It's a bitter pill to swallow.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Nov 27, 2021 10:38:06 GMT -5
Carey is the better player. You play your best players. Yeah I saw last night that Jordan isn't ready for the moment and it would do more damage if we force feed him minutes. Some freshmen are ready for minutes (Aminu), some aren't quite ready but can handle being force fed (JBills, Ryan) and some you need to bring along slower (Jordan and to a lesser extent Tyler). I think Jordan will be a pro but he needs the game to slow down a lot. It's little things but it's a lot of little things. I bet you said the same about Dante last year and look where he is.
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