NIL-Focused Discussion

[hoyaduck]

Apr 21, 2022 16:57:52 GMT -5 SDHoya said:

Apr 21, 2022 16:43:03 GMT -5 TC said:

Kind of feels like you're trying to reinvent a minor league professional team.

Isn't the whole point of NIL that the school isn't a party to it, and that the student's has the right to find outside compensation?

Kinda feels like we're already there. The NCAA had a chance to put in place real enforceable rules which would separate true endorsement deals from back door "pay for play". It punted.

So now, with all these schools creating "NIL programs" to direct NIL money to the players, is there any real difference between the university coordinating with boosters to funnel NIL money to a player, and the university paying them directly? Maybe the $$ isn't coming directly out of the university's general fund, but the boosters are basically just cutting out the athletic department as the middle man, right? When Tshiebwe negotiates a $2 million package to stay at UK another season, when the biggest part of many recruiting pitches now is what kind of "NIL package" the kid is going to get?

But take my hypothetical and remove the NIL. Let's say its simply the scholarship we are talking about. Is there any reason a school could not guarantee the scholarship for a set period of time in exchange for a commitment from the player not to leave?

I honestly don't know, which is why I posed the hypothetical.

It is my understanding that schools can offer multiyear athletic scholarships, but it clearly isn't the norm. As much as coaches and schools may complain about the year-to-year flexibility student-athletes have now, they, too, want that flexibility with their limited scholarships.

[SDHoya]

Apr 21, 2022 17:04:49 GMT -5 hoyaduck said:

Apr 21, 2022 16:57:52 GMT -5 SDHoya said:

Kinda feels like we're already there. The NCAA had a chance to put in place real enforceable rules which would separate true endorsement deals from back door "pay for play". It punted.

So now, with all these schools creating "NIL programs" to direct NIL money to the players, is there any real difference between the university coordinating with boosters to funnel NIL money to a player, and the university paying them directly? Maybe the $$ isn't coming directly out of the university's general fund, but the boosters are basically just cutting out the athletic department as the middle man, right? When Tshiebwe negotiates a $2 million package to stay at UK another season, when the biggest part of many recruiting pitches now is what kind of "NIL package" the kid is going to get?

But take my hypothetical and remove the NIL. Let's say its simply the scholarship we are talking about. Is there any reason a school could not guarantee the scholarship for a set period of time in exchange for a commitment from the player not to leave?

I honestly don't know, which is why I posed the hypothetical.

It is my understanding that schools can offer multiyear athletic scholarships, but it clearly isn't the norm. As much as coaches and schools may complain about the year-to-year flexibility student-athletes have now, they, too, want that flexibility with their limited scholarships.

In the past, schools really had no incentive to guarantee scholarships, as student-athletes were stuck unless willing to take a forced red-shirt year. Now that transfers are essentially free and immediate, the incentives may change. Think about the mid-major that becomes tired of being a farm team for the big boys--maybe they would consider this route to fend off the poachers.

But while I appreciate that a school is able to offer a multi-year scholarship--the question I am still hoping for an answer to (and maybe no one really knows) is whether the school may expressly condition a guaranteed multi-year scholarship (or any benefit) on a contractual promise by the student athlete not to transfer.

[bicentennial]

From two practical standpoints I am not sure the above would be enforceable. First the school cannot pay the athlete directly due to NCAA rules. An athlete gets a scholarship and other permissible benefits on an annual basis in return for remaining a student athlete in good standing. It would be unclear to me that there is any more value to a 4 year scholarship than to 4 one year scholarships. So by making the athlete sign a contract for multiple years, the school is demanding the promise not to transfer for no consideration in return. Second, I do not believe non compete clauses have ever been applied to students except possibly if you argue that the old NCAA transfer rule served as a 1 year non compete without loss of eligibility.

[EtomicB]

[SDHoya]

Apr 21, 2022 21:31:26 GMT -5 bicentennial said:

From two practical standpoints I am not sure the above would be enforceable. First the school cannot pay the athlete directly due to NCAA rules. An athlete gets a scholarship and other permissible benefits on an annual basis in return for remaining a student athlete in good standing. It would be unclear to me that there is any more value to a 4 year scholarship than to 4 one year scholarships. So by making the athlete sign a contract for multiple years, the school is demanding the promise not to transfer for no consideration in return. Second, I do not believe non compete clauses have ever been applied to students except possibly if you argue that the old NCAA transfer rule served as a 1 year non compete without loss of eligibility.

Interesting way of looking at it. Do NCAA rules state that the only offer a school can give to a student is scholarship in exchange for playing ball and remaining in good standing? Is there any rule restricting a school from adding terms to that arrangement?

From a pure contract law standpoint, I think that this arrangement would likely work. I disagree that a guaranteed term is not valuable consideration (a three year scholarship is clearly worth more than a one year scholarship). Also (NCAA rules aside), why can't the scholarship itself be the consideration for the non-transfer promise? I understand the non-transfer promise is more than the standard agreement today, but I see no reason State U couldn't say going forward the offer they are making to incoming student-athletes is that the scholarship is conditioned on both good standing and remaining with State U for the term of the agreement. It might be different if State U is attempting to add terms to an existing scholarship agreement.

I would agree that the tricky element may be non-compete laws. Most states allow at least some form of non-compete agreements, while states like California ban most forms of them. However, if Joe Basketball wants to void his contract with the Lakers in order to sign a more lucrative deal with the Warriors, he's not going to find a lot of support in the courts (instead he might hold out, refuse to play, or something else to force the issue). So while non-compete clauses have not been often been applied to student-athletes, if they are seen as effectively professional athletes (as the US Supreme Court implied), why couldn't similar non-compete arrangements be applied here? There may be some anti-trust/unfair competition laws which could apply here too, but not sure what kinds of carve outs the NCAA and universities would have.

[Lethal_Interjection]

Not sure if this was posted about a person's NIL valuation. Right now, Tyrell Ward's NIL is under 8.0K, fwiw.

[hoyaboya]

Industry sources have told On3 in recent weeks that deals of at least $500,000 were being crafted by donor-led collectives to help keep some fringe draft prospects in school another year.

“They would stay in school because they might get a half-million dollars over the next 12 months to stay and be a part of some appearances in the local community,” Blake Lawrence, the CEO and co-founder of Opendorse, told On3 in general recently about the landscape. “Those are real numbers. I’m being very open with you. If you’re borderline, staying in school could be a half-million-dollar payday.”

Another year in school enjoying an array of NIL opportunities, including autograph signings, meet-and-greets and perhaps apparel sales, could be more financially beneficial for borderline NBA prospects than being a second-round pick who winds up in the G-League. In fact, Bacot acknowledged that NIL potential was a factor, telling local media, “For sure, having that cushion and being able to make some extra money has definitely helped. It is great to be able to take advantage of this opportunity.”

As a native of the Congo, Tshiebwe encountered a thicket of complications en route to being permitted to monetize his NIL. But he announced in February that he finally was allowed to take advantage of NIL activities. And last month he launched his own apparel line on Kentucky Branded.

www.on3.com/nil/news/nil-delivers-big-win-for-college-basketball-oscar-tshiebwe-armando-bacot/

[SSHoya]

I'm skeptical that Georgetown is equipped to compete on the NIL recruiting front based on hoyaboya's post above.

Is there any Hoya optimist who can convince me otherwise?

[TC]

Apr 23, 2022 10:27:09 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

I'm skeptical that Georgetown is equipped to compete on the NIL recruiting front based on hoyaboya's post above.

Is there any Hoya optimist who can convince me otherwise?

From that John Carroll weekend piece it sounded like the major focus of the Athletics Department was making sure Oscar Tshiebwe could not take advantage of NIL given that he is a foreign student, and it kind of looks like Lee Reed lost out on that front.

Notably, I'm pretty sure Aminu Mohammed is a foreign student as well, so it kind of makes you think their strategy here was to argue that Mohammed could not take advantage of NIL. Substitute "Aminu Mohammed" in the quote about Tshiebwe that Lee Reed made, and I think you get where he was going with that.

I'm not sure whether Georgetown can compete in NIL, but it sure sounds like their strategy is to stick their heads in the sand and do everything in their power to make sure no one tries.

[DFW HOYA]

Apr 23, 2022 11:19:59 GMT -5 TC said:

From that John Carroll weekend piece it sounded like the major focus of the Athletics Department was making sure Oscar Tshiebwe could not take advantage of NIL given that he is a foreign student, and it kind of looks like Lee Reed lost out on that front.

That's not what happened. Who said otherwise?

[EtomicB]

Good for the young man!!

[TC]

Apr 23, 2022 12:56:03 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Apr 23, 2022 11:19:59 GMT -5 TC said:

From that John Carroll weekend piece it sounded like the major focus of the Athletics Department was making sure Oscar Tshiebwe could not take advantage of NIL given that he is a foreign student, and it kind of looks like Lee Reed lost out on that front.

That's not what happened. Who said otherwise?

hilltophoops.substack.com/p/georgetown-nil-lee-reed?s=r

[hoyaguy]

Apr 23, 2022 14:43:49 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

Good for the young man!!

UMiami can really turn into something else with big deals and in a beach city 

[iowa80]

Apr 23, 2022 14:43:49 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

Good for the young man!!

Forgive me in advance for a couple of possibly dumb questions but here they are:

What’s the most likely way that Lifewallet got into the picture here?

Does anybody care if the NIL “services” provided by Pack bear any relation to his compensation?

I assume he’s not bound to stay 2 years.  Correct?

[Deleted]

The football schools have a major leg up on NIL. It doesn't look like any of the BE schools have this thing going.

[iowa80]

Apr 23, 2022 15:16:11 GMT -5 @yaboynyp said:

The football schools have a major leg up on NIL. It doesn't look like any of the BE schools have this thing going.

It seems like a large fan/alumni base would help a lot, which also tracks with football school.

[thedragon]

Apr 23, 2022 15:07:18 GMT -5 iowa80 said:

Apr 23, 2022 14:43:49 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

Good for the young man!!

Forgive me in advance for a couple of possibly dumb questions but here they are:

What’s the most likely way that Lifewallet got into the picture here?

Does anybody care if the NIL “services” provided by Pack bear any relation to his compensation?

I assume he’s not bound to stay 2 years.  Correct?

The Owners son was a Miami Hurricane baseball player and now the COO of LifeWallet.

[hoyaroc]

Apr 23, 2022 15:16:11 GMT -5 @yaboynyp said:

The football schools have a major leg up on NIL. It doesn't look like any of the BE schools have this thing going.

You are correct. I’m a Miami Hurricanes football fan. Miami NIL definitely have a major leg up.

[prhoya]

Apr 23, 2022 14:43:49 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

Good for the young man!!

Wow!

Pat, what’s GU Basketball’s NIL plan? Is it a secret?

[iowa80]

Apr 23, 2022 16:32:09 GMT -5 prhoya said:

Apr 23, 2022 14:43:49 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

Good for the young man!!

Wow!

Pat, what’s GU Basketball’s NIL plan? Is it a secret?

A valid point that should be asked.   But I can't say it would bother me if it did not involve an $800,000 deal for a college junior to provide his NIL to a healthcare app.