the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
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Post by the_way on Jun 23, 2021 6:55:55 GMT -5
So can we put to bed permanently the myth that this is a Ewing problem? Sure, he signed the guys - late to the recruiting game, he got the guys he could - but they each had off court issues that were not predictable and which meant they were always going to be looking for greener pastures. Or a place where somebody blows sweet strawberry smoke up their tuchuses, where the rules don’t apply to them or some other nonsense. Bad luck to have them all here at once, it this is not a reflection on Pat or the job he is doing as coach so much as it is a reflection on these kids. Yeah, it was put to bed once those guys were gone. Thankfully, Ewing moved forward after all of their departures and so has the program.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by EtomicB on Jun 23, 2021 7:22:25 GMT -5
So can we put to bed permanently the myth that this is a Ewing problem? Sure, he signed the guys - late to the recruiting game, he got the guys he could - but they each had off court issues that were not predictable and which meant they were always going to be looking for greener pastures. Or a place where somebody blows sweet strawberry smoke up their tuchuses, where the rules don’t apply to them or some other nonsense. Bad luck to have them all here at once, it this is not a reflection on Pat or the job he is doing as coach so much as it is a reflection on these kids. What off-court issues did Akinjo & Mac have? Also both of their 2nd schools had head coaching changes...
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jun 23, 2021 7:33:06 GMT -5
Both have been accused of killing JFK, Bigfoot, and the Loch Ness Monster, among other things...
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jun 23, 2021 10:44:28 GMT -5
So can we put to bed permanently the myth that this is a Ewing problem? No. It ignores other guys who have left (like Wahab), and doesn't take away the fact that these guys left despite having ample playing time, starting, etc. Unlike McClung or Akinjo, the circumstances for Leblanc are different because he did not get much playing time at LSU, so you can see why he might leave. The "Ewing Can Do No Wrong" fans do their hardest to excuse away anything that could possibly be negative. To be clear, I do NOT put all the responsibility for these guys transferring on Ewing alone, but he certainly has a good amount of responsibility as the head coach. This also entirely forgets that Wahab also moved on, and how is that explained? The blunt fact is that good, high quality coaches retain much of their talent (or lose it to the NBA). Having so many high profile starter-level players move on is not common, even with the increased transfer portal activity. Ewing has recruited some good talent, and I am excited for Aminu and the others this year, but the real question is whether Ewing can retain them. And, that is certainly not a sure thing based on his track record to this point.
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Post by professorhoya on Jun 23, 2021 11:53:10 GMT -5
So can we put to bed permanently the myth that this is a Ewing problem? The blunt fact is that good, high quality coaches retain much of their talent So what are you suggesting?
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jun 23, 2021 12:39:23 GMT -5
The blunt fact is that good, high quality coaches retain much of their talent So what are you suggesting? I am suggesting that good high quality coaches (and, by extension, consistently successful programs) retain most their talent or lose them to the NBA (you cut off that last part). Thus far, Ewing has not done that, so if he wants to build on the success of the end of last season, he is going to need to figure that aspect out. Simply, if we are a revolving door where our top players frequently transfer, as has happened over the last few years, Ewing and the program will struggle to succeed. Now, as far as, how do we retain the talent? I am not in the locker room. That's up to Ewing and the coaches to make connections with the players, keep them engaged, and keep the roster together. To be fair, I do think it's a lot harder to do that now, in 2021, than it was in the past. But, it's necessary. No transfers at all is unrealistic, but I don't think it's pushing the envelope too much to expect that guys who (a) are starters, (b) get a lot of playing time, and (c) not good enough to get drafted should mostly stay year over year. If it's one guy here and there, fine. But, the pattern thus far is troubling, particularly with Wahab, considering he fit the archetype of what Ewing seemed to want to do, he was a center of our offense, and he was going to have the chance to play with a 5 star, and some upgraded talent.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2021 13:40:15 GMT -5
So what are you suggesting? I am suggesting that good high quality coaches (and, by extension, consistently successful programs) retain most their talent or lose them to the NBA (you cut off that last part). Thus far, Ewing has not done that, so if he wants to build on the success of the end of last season, he is going to need to figure that aspect out. Simply, if we are a revolving door where our top players frequently transfer, as has happened over the last few years, Ewing and the program will struggle to succeed. Now, as far as, how do we retain the talent? I am not in the locker room. That's up to Ewing and the coaches to make connections with the players, keep them engaged, and keep the roster together. To be fair, I do think it's a lot harder to do that now, in 2021, than it was in the past. But, it's necessary. No transfers at all is unrealistic, but I don't think it's pushing the envelope too much to expect that guys who (a) are starters, (b) get a lot of playing time, and (c) not good enough to get drafted should mostly stay year over year. If it's one guy here and there, fine. But, the pattern thus far is troubling, particularly with Wahab, considering he fit the archetype of what Ewing seemed to want to do, he was a center of our offense, and he was going to have the chance to play with a 5 star, and some upgraded talent. One way to curb the transfers would be to recruit less high school kids and recruit more transfer kids. This would curb transfers immediately since players transferring in will most likely stay for the full ride and with less high school players, you would likely have less bickering and less disgruntled players to deal with. We should only go after the high four star and five star kids hoping to land one or two a year and fill the rest of the recruitment with transfers.
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Post by professorhoya on Jun 23, 2021 14:26:04 GMT -5
So what are you suggesting? I am suggesting that good high quality coaches (and, by extension, consistently successful programs) retain most their talent or lose them to the NBA (you cut off that last part). Thus far, Ewing has not done that, so if he wants to build on the success of the end of last season, he is going to need to figure that aspect out. Simply, if we are a revolving door where our top players frequently transfer, as has happened over the last few years, Ewing and the program will struggle to succeed. Now, as far as, how do we retain the talent? I am not in the locker room. That's up to Ewing and the coaches to make connections with the players, keep them engaged, and keep the roster together. To be fair, I do think it's a lot harder to do that now, in 2021, than it was in the past. But, it's necessary. No transfers at all is unrealistic, but I don't think it's pushing the envelope too much to expect that guys who (a) are starters, (b) get a lot of playing time, and (c) not good enough to get drafted should mostly stay year over year. If it's one guy here and there, fine. But, the pattern thus far is troubling, particularly with Wahab, considering he fit the archetype of what Ewing seemed to want to do, he was a center of our offense, and he was going to have the chance to play with a 5 star, and some upgraded talent. What would it take for you to get on board with Coach? Buy in? Sweet Sixteen? Elite Eight? Final Four? National Championship? How can we make it right for you?
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by EtomicB on Jun 23, 2021 14:45:39 GMT -5
I am suggesting that good high quality coaches (and, by extension, consistently successful programs) retain most their talent or lose them to the NBA (you cut off that last part). Thus far, Ewing has not done that, so if he wants to build on the success of the end of last season, he is going to need to figure that aspect out. Simply, if we are a revolving door where our top players frequently transfer, as has happened over the last few years, Ewing and the program will struggle to succeed. Now, as far as, how do we retain the talent? I am not in the locker room. That's up to Ewing and the coaches to make connections with the players, keep them engaged, and keep the roster together. To be fair, I do think it's a lot harder to do that now, in 2021, than it was in the past. But, it's necessary. No transfers at all is unrealistic, but I don't think it's pushing the envelope too much to expect that guys who (a) are starters, (b) get a lot of playing time, and (c) not good enough to get drafted should mostly stay year over year. If it's one guy here and there, fine. But, the pattern thus far is troubling, particularly with Wahab, considering he fit the archetype of what Ewing seemed to want to do, he was a center of our offense, and he was going to have the chance to play with a 5 star, and some upgraded talent. What would it take for you to get on board with Coach? Buy in? Sweet Sixteen? Elite Eight? Final Four? National Championship? How can we make it right for you? Has to start with consistently being in the top 3 or 4 of the BE standings, hard to have high expectations for postseason play if you're not a part of the postseason in my view...
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by drquigley on Jun 23, 2021 19:30:55 GMT -5
Can we get back to the recent Supreme Court decision and how paying players will shape the future of college sports, specifically in our case, college basketball? I just don't see how the sport we all love will be able to survive, or at least in the form we've come to expect. I'm old enough to remember when GU basketball games weren't televised nationally. When only a select few alumni even followed the games. Will allowing payment to student basketball players finally break the bond between the players, the students, the alumni, and the University? In 5-10 years will blogs like this seem quaint? Will any of us actually care how a bunch of guys who don't actually attend GU but who play under our name are doing? Obviously, we've been getting closer to this day all the time but will there ever be the need for another Mary Fenlon?
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Jun 23, 2021 20:13:21 GMT -5
Can we get back to the recent Supreme Court decision and how paying players will shape the future of college sports, specifically in our case, college basketball? I just don't see how the sport we all love will be able to survive, or at least in the form we've come to expect. I'm old enough to remember when GU basketball games weren't televised nationally. When only a select few alumni even followed the games. Will allowing payment to student basketball players finally break the bond between the players, the students, the alumni, and the University? In 5-10 years will blogs like this seem quaint? Will any of us actually care how a bunch of guys who don't actually attend GU but who play under our name are doing? Obviously, we've been getting closer to this day all the time but will there ever be the need for another Mary Fenlon? Assuming the Kavanaugh concurrence becomes the guide post--Yes. I find it hard to believe that universities will want to directly pay professional athletes. Some of the big schools (although perhaps not everyone in the P5) may spin off their football and men's bball teams, and they may continue to be loosely affiliated with the source university. But it won't be the college athletics we know now. PS--not commenting on the law or ethics of all of this, just that it necessarily destroys the current model everyone who posts on this (and similar forums) is emotionally invested in.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 23, 2021 20:33:34 GMT -5
Can we get back to the recent Supreme Court decision and how paying players will shape the future of college sports, specifically in our case, college basketball? I just don't see how the sport we all love will be able to survive, or at least in the form we've come to expect. I'm old enough to remember when GU basketball games weren't televised nationally. When only a select few alumni even followed the games. Will allowing payment to student basketball players finally break the bond between the players, the students, the alumni, and the University? In 5-10 years will blogs like this seem quaint? Will any of us actually care how a bunch of guys who don't actually attend GU but who play under our name are doing? Obviously, we've been getting closer to this day all the time but will there ever be the need for another Mary Fenlon? Some thoughts: 1. The Allston case was the NCAA stepping over restricting educational benefits by claiming antitrust protection, which is the equivalent of shooting oneself in the leg and taking the 5th Amendment. It pushes the argument forward on expanded educational benefits to which most schools can do anyway. It may accelerate the topic of unionization, although the students won't be happy to know that at the end of the day, 300 of the 350 Division I programs (Georgetown included) really don't make money on its program. 2. Georgetown isn't going to pay players of any sport. Given Jack DeGioia's close role in all this, and given how the NCAA survives on basketball TV revenue, saving that deal is more important to the NCAA than fighting the issue with programs that can afford to pay; namely, the Power 5 conferences. If they all went out and started their own non-NCAA football association, I don't think the NCAA would fight it, as long as basketball stayed in their back yard. In that scenario, an independent company (e.g., "Florida Football LLC") would license the IP from the university and pay royalties and rent for the facilities, but players would be compensated by the LLC and not the school, with academic study provided but not required. Jack DeGioia is invested in the big-tent model of athletics at Georgetown and is not going to tear it down to cover one sport. 3. Mary Fenlon was brought on to keep basketball players on target to graduate. The operative question in 2021 is how to get them to want to graduate, because the deflated basketball isn't working anymore. Education isn't the aspiration it once was, and the lure of making making six, seven or eight figures drives families to shoot for the moon and see their son out of work by 25. I don't see this solving itself unless and until the G-League is a competitive option for 18-20 year olds and not just a dumping ground for failed draft picks. There are still opportunities for innovation, however. Could Georgetown offer a accelerated three year AB that would be of interest to pro-bound athletes? Under new NCAA rules, could Georgetown offer an extend scholarship into its Sports Management program to graduation? Could the NCAA reduce scholarship maximums, or raise them? At the end of the day, the squeeze may be on salaries. Multi-million coaching salaries below the Power 5 may be a thing of the (recent) past.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jun 23, 2021 23:01:03 GMT -5
What would it take for you to get on board with Coach? Buy in? Sweet Sixteen? Elite Eight? Final Four? National Championship? How can we make it right for you? I know you may think otherwise, but I very much support the program and Ewing, even if I may not be overly optimistic like some others on here. I very badly want success. I was extremely excited by the BET run, and it was easily the best moment the Hoyas have had in several years. I really just want sustained success. I want to make the tournament more often than not. I would like to be in the Top 25 somewhat regularly. I don't think that is asking for too much. We basically haven't had sustained success of any type since 2013 and earlier, though 2014-2015 was okay (yes, JT3's last years were not at a level that I find acceptable, either). That's a long time, and close to a decade. I realize a lot of people got upset about the NCAA upsets 2013 and earlier, and I get that, but I remember how exciting it was to have high quality teams that were mostly shoe-ins to make the NCAA tournament. I don't expect we will be a top seed every year, but I think making the NCAA tournament more often than not is a good start. I hope Ewing builds on last year's success and builds on it. Making the NCAA tournament two years in a row, and this coming year as an at-large bid, would be huge for the program.
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hoya73
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by hoya73 on Jun 24, 2021 9:13:35 GMT -5
I won't be unhappy if we make the tournament as a repeat BET champion. I'd settle for an at-large bid. But 2 consecutive years as BET champ would also be huge for the program.
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Jun 24, 2021 9:28:38 GMT -5
Hoya basketball program expectations have certainly changed over the years. Joe Lang was the athletic director at Georgetown in 2003 when he tried to temper expectations during the tenure of coach Craig Esherick, and was ridiculed. "Lang was criticized by students and alumni a year ago when he said that a yearly NCAA trip was an "unreasonable expectation" for Georgetown's high-profile basketball team, which had been struggling under coach Craig Esherick." www.espn.com/college-sports/news/story?id=1827088Maybe, in retrospect, he was prescient and we were unrealistic?
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jun 24, 2021 10:10:11 GMT -5
Hoya basketball program expectations have certainly changed over the years. Joe Lang was the athletic director at Georgetown in 2003 when he tried to temper expectations during the tenure of coach Craig Esherick, and was ridiculed. "Lang was criticized by students and alumni a year ago when he said that a yearly NCAA trip was an "unreasonable expectation" for Georgetown's high-profile basketball team, which had been struggling under coach Craig Esherick." www.espn.com/college-sports/news/story?id=1827088Maybe, in retrospect, he was prescient and we were unrealistic? Considering how often JT3's teams made the dance, I don't see how fans are being unrealistic in wanting consistent trips to the tourney...
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CTHoya08
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Bring back Izzo!
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Post by CTHoya08 on Jun 25, 2021 5:34:53 GMT -5
I won't be unhappy if we make the tournament as a repeat BET champion. I'd settle for an at-large bid. But 2 consecutive years as BET champ would also be huge for the program. Would love to repeat as BET champions. But we want to be a position where we’re going to the tournament either way, and then win the BET as a cherry on top.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2021 8:05:44 GMT -5
We have the most Big East Tournament titles, I think.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jun 25, 2021 9:19:05 GMT -5
We have the most Big East Tournament titles, I think. Yes, we do! Georgetown - 8 Connecticut - 7 Syracuse - 5 Villanova - 5 St. John's - 3 Louisville -3 Seton Hall - 3 Among current teams, Providence has 2, and otherwise Marquette, DePaul, Xavier, Butler, and Creighton have 0.
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SSHoya
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"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Jun 28, 2021 16:32:39 GMT -5
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