hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Feb 10, 2021 18:11:34 GMT -5
You guys do realize that we will still be the worse team on paper even if our seniors come back for 5th yrs. I don't get why anyone would want a 5th yr of this bunch of seniors. They will always be Hoyas but they are all 2nd options at best and are in positions were they have to be above their respective option level. It will be time to cut the cord when this season is over...
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paranoia2
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Post by paranoia2 on Feb 10, 2021 18:44:07 GMT -5
Definitely time for a fresh start. While Duke & Kentucky are struggling I believe the lack of coaching time and being together as a team has caused that. In previous years their freshmen led teams have done pretty well.
My main concern is future recruiting. Blair & Pickett staying would mean MAJOR minutes taken away from the freshmen class. The extra year of eligibility is a strange loophole. If I am Tyler or Jordan I would be Editeded off if Blair stays. I have nothing against Blair or Pick but future recruits need to see a different GU. Need to see Patrick keeps his word, freshmen play big minutes if talented and hopefully a more tenacious & explosive group.
Tyler was a tough recruiting experience, Jordan chose GU over St. John’s in a recruiting WAR & Aminu is the first 5 star in a long time. You pull a bait and switch w these guys you are playing . For a program looking to make recruiting in roads and develop relationships I don’t think that would be wise.
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hoyaguy
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Post by hoyaguy on Feb 10, 2021 19:04:55 GMT -5
Definitely time for a fresh start. While Duke & Kentucky are struggling I believe the lack of coaching time and being together as a team has caused that. In previous years their freshmen led teams have done pretty well. My main concern is future recruiting. Blair & Pickett staying would mean MAJOR minutes taken away from the freshmen class. The extra year of eligibility is a strange loophole. If I am Tyler or Jordan I would be Editeded off if Blair stays. I have nothing against Blair or Pick but future recruits need to see a different GU. Need to see Patrick keeps his word, freshmen play big minutes if talented and hopefully a more tenacious & explosive group. Tyler was a tough recruiting experience, Jordan chose GU over St. John’s in a recruiting WAR & Aminu is the first 5 star in a long time. You pull a bait and switch w these guys you are playing . For a program looking to make recruiting in roads and develop relationships I don’t think that would be wise. I agree to wipe the slate as cleanly as possible especially since we could get a grad transfer to round it out. I don't expect anything amazing either way, but at least new faces can bring excitement and energy to the court with players like Riley and Aminu. That is why my ideal grad transfer is a stretch 4 to take some shooting load, so only two freshmen start (Beard or Riley, and Aminu) or it could even just be aminu as the only freshman if Berger steps it up to create outside threat to match Aminu's driving plays. Either way new faces and team is a welcomed idea to me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2021 20:31:15 GMT -5
I think there's less than a 1% chance these kids would choose another year at Gtown vs getting a pro check, but if they want to come back you guys are saying Pat should tell them no thanks???
Personally I would like to have a couple veterans around to bridge the gap and help the young kids grow. If you're good enough to play Pat's going to play you regardless.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Feb 10, 2021 21:05:27 GMT -5
If Blair has a chance to go to grad school, be all 1st team BE on a tourney team....and have a real senior campaign....you have to think he’d at least contemplate it.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Feb 10, 2021 22:13:18 GMT -5
Definitely time for a fresh start. While Duke & Kentucky are struggling I believe the lack of coaching time and being together as a team has caused that. In previous years their freshmen led teams have done pretty well. My main concern is future recruiting. Blair & Pickett staying would mean MAJOR minutes taken away from the freshmen class. The extra year of eligibility is a strange loophole. If I am Tyler or Jordan I would be Editeded off if Blair stays. I have nothing against Blair or Pick but future recruits need to see a different GU. Need to see Patrick keeps his word, freshmen play big minutes if talented and hopefully a more tenacious & explosive group. Tyler was a tough recruiting experience, Jordan chose GU over St. John’s in a recruiting WAR & Aminu is the first 5 star in a long time. You pull a bait and switch w these guys you are playing . For a program looking to make recruiting in roads and develop relationships I don’t think that would be wise. I totally understand where you are coming from. However, I'm not sure that spending another year getting our butts kicked --this time in front of an increasingly hostile home crowd (remember the end of the JT3 era?)--is going to be particularly attractive to future recruits either. I think the better recruits would get their share of time anyway. Aminu's starting spot is essentially locked in no matter what happens to the rest of the roster. He'd probably be happier to have better teammates around him and a chance to make the tournament rather than spending one year of a potentially short college career on a team that's out of the hunt for a bid by January. And I think if they are good enough, there's PT for the rest of the recruits too. Would a guy like Riley be happy if he had to back up Blair for a year if it meant that the team had a better chance to make the tournament? Not sure, that kind of thing depends on the person. But I think most players are OK with being a back up on a good team as a freshman, recognizing that their role will increase the following year, rather than playing a ton on a bad team. Look at a guy like Terrence Williams--do you think he regrets his college choice, where he's playing a small role on a good team as a freshman? Do you think he'd rather be at Georgetown, playing a much bigger role on a much worse team? I doubt it. Winning is a great deodorant, and I think most players are OK with a small role on a winning team as a freshman, presuming that they see a pathway for their role to grow significantly in the years to come. And if Jordan Riley or Tyler Beard don't like it? Meh. No offense to them, and I think both guys will be very good players in time, but I think that we have to put what's best for the program overall ahead of the feelings of the #118 and #148 recruits in their class, who have never worn a Hoya jersey and have already signed LOIs. Certainly if by some chance Jahvon Blair--who has given you 4 years of effort and stuck with the program through some tough years--comes to you and says "I didn't feel like I got everything I wanted out of this year because of no off-season, a COVID pause, no fans, no senior day, etc. and I want to come back for another year", you have to put loyalty to him over loyalty to a couple of incoming freshmen, right? I really do understand the sentiment of wanting to "turn the page" or "clear the decks", etc. But the sand in the hourglass is running low here, and we need to get the nose up on this thing ASAP. For that reason, I think all options have to be on the table, including retaining our own seniors, bringing in 5th year guys from elsewhere, bringing in other quality high schoolers (eg. recruiting over guys who are already in the fold), etc. Whatever we can do to put the best team out there next year, we have to do.
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smokeyjack
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Post by smokeyjack on Feb 10, 2021 23:10:00 GMT -5
Definitely time for a fresh start. While Duke & Kentucky are struggling I believe the lack of coaching time and being together as a team has caused that. In previous years their freshmen led teams have done pretty well. My main concern is future recruiting. Blair & Pickett staying would mean MAJOR minutes taken away from the freshmen class. The extra year of eligibility is a strange loophole. If I am Tyler or Jordan I would be Editeded off if Blair stays. I have nothing against Blair or Pick but future recruits need to see a different GU. Need to see Patrick keeps his word, freshmen play big minutes if talented and hopefully a more tenacious & explosive group. Tyler was a tough recruiting experience, Jordan chose GU over St. John’s in a recruiting WAR & Aminu is the first 5 star in a long time. You pull a bait and switch w these guys you are playing . For a program looking to make recruiting in roads and develop relationships I don’t think that would be wise. I totally understand where you are coming from. However, I'm not sure that spending another year getting our butts kicked --this time in front of an increasingly hostile home crowd (remember the end of the JT3 era?)--is going to be particularly attractive to future recruits either. I think the better recruits would get their share of time anyway. Aminu's starting spot is essentially locked in no matter what happens to the rest of the roster. He'd probably be happier to have better teammates around him and a chance to make the tournament rather than spending one year of a potentially short college career on a team that's out of the hunt for a bid by January. And I think if they are good enough, there's PT for the rest of the recruits too. Would a guy like Riley be happy if he had to back up Blair for a year if it meant that the team had a better chance to make the tournament? Not sure, that kind of thing depends on the person. But I think most players are OK with being a back up on a good team as a freshman, recognizing that their role will increase the following year, rather than playing a ton on a bad team. Look at a guy like Terrence Williams--do you think he regrets his college choice, where he's playing a small role on a good team as a freshman? Do you think he'd rather be at Georgetown, playing a much bigger role on a much worse team? I doubt it. Winning is a great deodorant, and I think most players are OK with a small role on a winning team as a freshman, presuming that they see a pathway for their role to grow significantly in the years to come. And if Jordan Riley or Tyler Beard don't like it? Meh. No offense to them, and I think both guys will be very good players in time, but I think that we have to put what's best for the program overall ahead of the feelings of the #118 and #148 recruits in their class, who have never worn a Hoya jersey and have already signed LOIs. Certainly if by some chance Jahvon Blair--who has given you 4 years of effort and stuck with the program through some tough years--comes to you and says "I didn't feel like I got everything I wanted out of this year because of no off-season, a COVID pause, no fans, no senior day, etc. and I want to come back for another year", you have to put loyalty to him over loyalty to a couple of incoming freshmen, right? I really do understand the sentiment of wanting to "turn the page" or "clear the decks", etc. But the sand in the hourglass is running low here, and we need to get the nose up on this thing ASAP. For that reason, I think all options have to be on the table, including retaining our own seniors, bringing in 5th year guys from elsewhere, bringing in other quality high schoolers (eg. recruiting over guys who are already in the fold), etc. Whatever we can do to put the best team out there next year, we have to do. Winner!!! Ding...ding...ding. It's just not that complicated. One of the incoming guys is ready to be a star Day 1. That's it. And among this year's frosh, only two should play as much or more unless next year is going to a total debacle. Does Para really think good players are excited by 8-25 seasons? Because that's what you're looking at it you go in with Q and 11underclassmen. That team might not win a league game. Think of it this way - why are you so ready to run off guys as losers to give time to kids who sat this year when those seniors had exponentially (all frosh BE) better freshman seasons on a far better GU team? Wouldn't that suggest that even though Blair And Pickett are admittedly not ideal pieces they were and are literally exponentially better players than the current bench-warmers you are advocating should replace them? Your logic seems closer to lunacy. You are literally praying for unicorns. What are you missing with these guys? They are low 3s who have played like low 3s in games and clearly practices as well or they'd be playing. You mined a relative gem from the slag already in Harris, who still has plenty of warts. We should consider ourselves lucky already. "Hey, I know these guys were so pedestrian they barely earned slop minutes on the worst GU team in decades. But just wait until they take that sophomore summer jump and Pat coaches them up. At least one will be ready to start in the Big East next season." That is pure insanity. Doesn't it seem far more likely that they are exactly what they seem to be...which is a bunch of mid-major reaches Pat grabbed in desperation to fill the practice roster? Look at their other offers and tell me these guys have high ceilings with a straight face. Pat hit on a reach in Dante. Finding one starter among those big time reaches was a huge win.
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paranoia2
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Post by paranoia2 on Feb 10, 2021 23:47:32 GMT -5
If I am Jordan or Tyler & Blair is here next year I am ANGRY. Trying to build recruiting relationships is tricky. You start CREATING ways for a guy not to not play ? Make no mistake it would be creating an issue with Tyler and Jordan. Could lead to more defections.
Seeing Coach Ewing keep his word, develop some positive recruiting relationships and have a young exciting team being led by freshmen to me is a positive. Personally I think the team will be pretty good next year without any of the seniors. The additional year I have my eye on would be Aminu & him coming back to play with his guys for a sophomore season.
Who is getting a lot of credit for St. John’s recent success? Coach Anderson, Champagne & most of all Posh. What year is Posh?
Posh Alexander is a freshman.--Admin
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2021 23:55:02 GMT -5
What did Coach Ewing promise Tyler? I'm so confused by this line of reasoning. Freshman aren't entitled to playing time just because, and kids can't be afraid to compete. Most transfers aren't about how much they played last season. They are about how much they are going to play moving forward imo.
I'll also add Tyler, Riley and Aminu playing together on the perimeter seems like a bad idea for long stretches. None of these kids are knock down shooters at this stage in their development.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2021 0:20:43 GMT -5
One quick note on St Johns's. Their rotation is 10 deep. Only 3 of those kids are underclassmen. We're looking at a roster with 2 juniors and 11 Freshman and Sophomores if everything stays the same. That's really tough man.
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Feb 11, 2021 4:53:28 GMT -5
One quick note on St Johns's. Their rotation is 10 deep. Only 3 of those kids are underclassmen. We're looking at a roster with 2 juniors and 11 Freshman and Sophomores if everything stays the same. That's really tough man. No one scares you on StJs roster but Alexander and Champagnie. And Champagnie is gone. The rest are good player that our team will matchup with easily. The goal shouldn't be "let's put together a team that will finish 8th in the BE". The goal should be "let's put together a C'ship level team". We may disagree but I believe that goal is better reached by developing your C'ship level players. I believe we have 2yrs of Aminu at best and I don't want to waste 1yr with his running mates watching Juggy and Morko from the bench. Who were the seniors that guided Horford, Brewer and Noah?
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 11, 2021 8:14:09 GMT -5
Why can't it Aminu's team and we still have Blair and Pickett? Obviously you don't understand the ego of a D1 bball player. Aminu would have to come in and be Iverson like to take ownership of the team with 2 seniors around. Even AI didn't have full ownership until soph yr. I remember his 1st yr feeling like it was Don/Othello/AI in that order. At least at the start of the season. Aminu is good but he isn't a Iverson like talent. I am hoping that next season the team belongs to Dante with Q, Aminu and a 3rd player being solid to good.... I believe we really need Dante to make a Kel like leap next year. Since Blair and Pickett are not alphas, then they might love playing with Aminu. I don’t see them trying to impose their will, but we may have a seniors Govan and Kaleb vs. frosh Macinjo situation (Govan didn’t like to pass it back to them whenever he got the ball). Pat would need a frank sit-down with them and explain their roles going forward.
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Post by professorhoya on Feb 11, 2021 8:19:11 GMT -5
Obviously you don't understand the ego of a D1 bball player. Aminu would have to come in and be Iverson like to take ownership of the team with 2 seniors around. Even AI didn't have full ownership until soph yr. I remember his 1st yr feeling like it was Don/Othello/AI in that order. At least at the start of the season. Aminu is good but he isn't a Iverson like talent. I am hoping that next season the team belongs to Dante with Q, Aminu and a 3rd player being solid to good.... I believe we really need Dante to make a Kel like leap next year. Since Blair and Pickett are not alphas, then they might love playing with Aminu. I don’t see them trying to impose their will, but we may have a seniors Govan and Kaleb vs. frosh Macinjo situation (Govan didn’t like to pass it back to them whenever he got the ball). Pat would need a frank sit-down with them and explain their roles going forward. I can't see either Blair or Pickett staying. Blair has played himself into a nice overseas career (as a floor), and both can make good money overseas while having their degree (worse case scenario) The more likely candidates to stay are Bile or Carey who have not had the full Georgetown experience due to COVID and have only been here 8 months.
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rhw485
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Post by rhw485 on Feb 11, 2021 8:56:22 GMT -5
I'm not going to opine on the potentially returning seniors, too many variables about the individuals and their desires as well as the school's willingness that we simply don't know.
But I will say this, if people don't think the expectation for next season, regardless of who's here, is to at least be in the bubble discussion, then we're in trouble. I cannot stress this enough, it takes so very little to be in the discussion. St John's has one win over a surefire tourney team (Nova), a second win over another probable tourney team that was missing its best player (UConn), no marquee non-con wins, and is in the discussion. Ewing reached this bare minimum in year 2 of his first attempt at a rebuild, if he can't get to there in year 2 of his second attempt, then I don't know what we're even talking about.
I agree that it would probably be difficult w 11 underclassmen and Wahab, I also don't think that's going to be our roster situation regardless of what happens with the seniors.
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smokeyjack
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Post by smokeyjack on Feb 11, 2021 9:16:10 GMT -5
I agree that the likelihood of Blair or Pickett returning is very low. I know that if Pat doesn't add a shooter (and counting on a guy like Berger is laughable), then we are in for a very long year. The single most important attribute in the modern game is the ability to make 3-pointers. We are likely to enter next season with Carey as our best option from triple. Even if the newbies are better than advertised across the board, they aren't shooters. Get ready to watch a ton of frustration as guys play an exciting brand of ball, and lose a ton thanks to constantly trading 2s for 3s.
And relative to frosh losing playing time, Ewing is going to be forced to play Carey for extended minutes next season, because he's going to have to have a shooter on the floor. Why do you think watching Carey, whose game is inferior to Blair's in every way, is going to be somehow more palatable to the frosh than it would be if they were losing time to Blair?
Also, the notion that anything is "owed" or "promised" to incoming recruits is absurd. It is expected that Aminu will arrive and earn the respect of his teammates on the practice floor. But Paranoia acts like Aminu walks in Day 1 and Pat says, "OK, guys, this is Mo Aminu. Going forward, this is his team and you are all to defer to him going forward because he's a big time recruit and you guys are his minions."
That's just not how it works. Will Aminu likely walk in, work his tail off and take that mantle by proving himself to his teammates all summer and fall in practices? Hopefully. Maybe even likely. But he's not annointed. That respect has to be earned. And the same goes for Riley and Beard to an even greater degree. Do you really think Harris is going to grin at Beard, toss him the keys and say, " Thank God you're here. We were lost without you. "
Yeah, it's a very delicate deal. And frankly, Patrick has been complete crap at meshing old and new in the past. That usually goes smoother with a senior head around. Maybe Carey can be that guy. We'll see. But please stop with the narrative that one of the program's key concerns is the entitlement mindset of incoming recruits. If these guys walk in the door expecting the program to conform to their desires and expectations instead of vice versa, then they aren't the right kind of guys to help us turn things around.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2021 9:17:24 GMT -5
One quick note on St Johns's. Their rotation is 10 deep. Only 3 of those kids are underclassmen. We're looking at a roster with 2 juniors and 11 Freshman and Sophomores if everything stays the same. That's really tough man. No one scares you on StJs roster but Alexander and Champagnie. And Champagnie is gone. The rest are good player that our team will matchup with easily. The goal shouldn't be "let's put together a team that will finish 8th in the BE". The goal should be "let's put together a C'ship level team". We may disagree but I believe that goal is better reached by developing your C'ship level players. I believe we have 2yrs of Aminu at best and I don't want to waste 1yr with his running mates watching Juggy and Morko from the bench. Who were the seniors that guided Horford, Brewer and Noah? Generally speaking the goal should be to put the best team on the floor possible. Doing so doesn’t stop you from investing a lot of time developing your young guys that are your future. Anthony Roberson, David Lee, and Matt Walsh were the leading scorers on Florida when those guys were Freshman. They were all upperclassman and playing with those guy’s didn’t stop them from improving. Noah played less than 10 minutes a game as a frosh. The next season he was their leading scorer. www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/florida/2005.html
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smokeyjack
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Post by smokeyjack on Feb 11, 2021 9:39:47 GMT -5
No one scares you on StJs roster but Alexander and Champagnie. And Champagnie is gone. The rest are good player that our team will matchup with easily. The goal shouldn't be "let's put together a team that will finish 8th in the BE". The goal should be "let's put together a C'ship level team". We may disagree but I believe that goal is better reached by developing your C'ship level players. I believe we have 2yrs of Aminu at best and I don't want to waste 1yr with his running mates watching Juggy and Morko from the bench. Who were the seniors that guided Horford, Brewer and Noah? Generally speaking the goal should be to put the best team on the floor possible. Doing so doesn’t stop you from investing a lot of time developing your young guys that are your future. Anthony Roberson, David Lee, and Matt Walsh were the leading scorers on Florida when those guys were Freshman. They were all upperclassman and playing with those guy’s didn’t stop them from improving. Noah played less than 10 minutes a game as a frosh. The next season he was there leading scorer. www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/florida/2005.htmlOuch! Zeke, you might want to research your example next time before you literally make exactly the opposite point in spectacularly compelling fashion.
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Feb 11, 2021 9:41:18 GMT -5
No one scares you on StJs roster but Alexander and Champagnie. And Champagnie is gone. The rest are good player that our team will matchup with easily. The goal shouldn't be "let's put together a team that will finish 8th in the BE". The goal should be "let's put together a C'ship level team". We may disagree but I believe that goal is better reached by developing your C'ship level players. I believe we have 2yrs of Aminu at best and I don't want to waste 1yr with his running mates watching Juggy and Morko from the bench. Who were the seniors that guided Horford, Brewer and Noah? Generally speaking the goal should be to put the best team on the floor possible. Doing so doesn’t stop you from investing a lot of time developing your young guys that are your future. Anthony Roberson, David Lee, and Matt Walsh were the leading scorers on Florida when those guys were Freshman. They were all upperclassman and playing with those guy’s didn’t stop them from improving. www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/florida/2005.htmlYaboy you are correct on Florida but the situation would be a little different. For 1.) Brewer, Horford and Green all played 19-25 mins/gm and 2.) Lee was a lottery pick and the other 2 have at least 2yrs in the L. 3.) Florida was a Top 10 team their freshman year and nobody on this site thinks we will be a Top 5 team in the BE....So why stunt the growth of the players to be fighting to be on the bubble. If Juggy comes back Tyler and/or Jordan will be getting less than 10mins a night....
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Feb 11, 2021 9:42:46 GMT -5
Generally speaking the goal should be to put the best team on the floor possible. Doing so doesn’t stop you from investing a lot of time developing your young guys that are your future. Anthony Roberson, David Lee, and Matt Walsh were the leading scorers on Florida when those guys were Freshman. They were all upperclassman and playing with those guy’s didn’t stop them from improving. Noah played less than 10 minutes a game as a frosh. The next season he was there leading scorer. www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/florida/2005.htmlOuch. Zeke, you might want to research your example next time before you literally make the opposite point in incredibly compelling fashion. Depends on what you think my point was....do you think the GTown situation is the same as the Florida situation?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2021 9:45:41 GMT -5
Coach bring back the guys, Pickett, Blair, Carey and Bile. Team them up with Q, Tim, Aminu, Mutombo, Riley, Harris, Billingsly, Sibley and Beard and we got something. Add on Berger, Kobe, Malcom and Collin and we are cooking with grease! NCAA tournament here we come!!!
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