tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Aug 18, 2021 22:55:59 GMT -5
I'm all for optimism but the "intimidation" days are over and they're not coming back. If they played with intimidation, they'd not be able to field a team in the 4th quarter. It's a very different game than when the Hoyas physically punished guys for attempting to drive the paint and, even if they made it near the hoop, Patrick would toss that sh!t to a teammate for a run-out. Now, everyone whines whenever they miss a shot because it must've been someone else's fault for invading their personal space. I'm hoping the rubberband snaps back a bit at some point soon because the incessant whining for a foul on every play is ridiculous and sad. One of our “soft teams” fought the Chinese army, we are still totally team of paranoia. Why do you think all the other teams come into our gym with a chip on their shoulder? Fair enough. But, imagine what that "fight" would have looked like against the 84 or 85 team. Those guys weren't acting tough. They dared other teams to try them. No one did. For good reasons. In direct response, no one was intimidated by that squad. Nor should they have been. Scrappy is as close as we're ever going to get to intimidating if the status quo remains.
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Aug 18, 2021 22:58:21 GMT -5
One of our “soft teams” fought the Chinese army, we are still totally team of paranoia. Why do you think all the other teams come into our gym with a chip on their shoulder? Fair enough. But, imagine what that "fight" would have looked like against the 84 or 85 team. Those guys weren't acting tough. They dared other teams to try them. No one did. For good reasons. Times change. What passes for tough these days, well, I won’t say. But I expect this team to give better than they get.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Aug 18, 2021 23:01:30 GMT -5
Fair enough. But, imagine what that "fight" would have looked like against the 84 or 85 team. Those guys weren't acting tough. They dared other teams to try them. No one did. For good reasons. Times change. What passes for tough these days, well, I won’t say. But I expect this team to give better than they get. I agree completely. I only meant to say that physical intimidation on the floor lost its place a while ago and, seemingly, isn't coming back. The substitute, apparently, is showing someone up bad enough that it gets views on Insta. Times change. Whatever works. I feel like Patrick has recruited guys that compete and go hard. That's plenty for me. I don't care if the other team is intimidated. I care whether or not they win.
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hoyaguy
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Post by hoyaguy on Aug 18, 2021 23:18:40 GMT -5
I remember seeing on maybe a Xavier, or someone else we beat after the break, post somewhere on social media that they and others were very annoyed how we had 3 7-footers on the team that were crushing their team's morale and attacking the basket which I found hilarious. Positivity guys
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Gammo
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Post by Gammo on Aug 19, 2021 4:11:25 GMT -5
Great exchange Seaweed and Tas. Count me in on the optimism and the belief that this team will be tough. I know it has been said a lot in many different threads, but a large part of the optimism and toughness comes from our hard nosed point guard. Dante was unflappable as a freshman, and he exudes mental toughness. It ain't the size of the dog in the fight . . . as they say. There is A LOT of fight in him. And linking that with similar traits in so many on the team. Wow, is it November yet? I cannot wait for this year!!
Let's go Hoyas!!!
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Aug 19, 2021 4:51:58 GMT -5
I'm all for optimism but the "intimidation" days are over and they're not coming back. If they played with intimidation, they'd not be able to field a team in the 4th quarter. It's a very different game than when the Hoyas physically punished guys for attempting to drive the paint and, even if they made it near the hoop, Patrick would toss that sh!t to a teammate for a run-out. Now, everyone whines whenever they miss a shot because it must've been someone else's fault for invading their personal space. I'm hoping the rubberband snaps back a bit at some point soon because the incessant whining for a foul on every play is ridiculous and sad. Tas I don't fully agree with the bolded part of your statement. Last year team bully balled their way to a BE championship. There was very little issue with fielding a team in the 2nd half of games and we were probably the most physical team in the BE last year. But I do agree that it's not like the 80's or even Uncle Jeff's BE but it was still a very intimidating brand of BBall.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Aug 19, 2021 7:10:12 GMT -5
I'm all for optimism but the "intimidation" days are over and they're not coming back. If they played with intimidation, they'd not be able to field a team in the 4th quarter. It's a very different game than when the Hoyas physically punished guys for attempting to drive the paint and, even if they made it near the hoop, Patrick would toss that sh!t to a teammate for a run-out. Now, everyone whines whenever they miss a shot because it must've been someone else's fault for invading their personal space. I'm hoping the rubberband snaps back a bit at some point soon because the incessant whining for a foul on every play is ridiculous and sad. Tas I don't fully agree with the bolded part of your statement. Last year team bully balled their way to a BE championship. There was very little issue with fielding a team in the 2nd half of games and we were probably the most physical team in the BE last year. But I do agree that it's not like the 80's or even Uncle Jeff's BE but it was still a very intimidating brand of BBall. Fair point. I suppose it's a matter of degree. Our team last year wouldn't have been viewed as physical in the BE when we were actually intimidating is my only point. I think we can benefit from being physical (depth permitting). But, the allowable physicality really doesn't ever extend into the physically intimidating, IMO.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Aug 19, 2021 7:15:30 GMT -5
Sadly, the physicality of the 80’s Hoyas (like the 90’s Knicks or the Pistons before them) has been legislated out of the game.
We can play with more edge, but the good old days of “nothing’s for free” are gone, never to return.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Aug 19, 2021 7:37:47 GMT -5
Sadly, the physicality of the 80’s Hoyas (like the 90’s Knicks or the Pistons before them) has been legislated out of the game. We can play with more edge, but the good old days of “nothing’s for free” are gone, never to return. Thank you for putting it much more succinctly than I did/could.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Aug 19, 2021 9:29:28 GMT -5
I was surprised how few fouls were called in the summer leagues I watched. Made for better watching.
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paranoia2
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Post by paranoia2 on Aug 19, 2021 10:47:05 GMT -5
In my opinion it is very simple:
(1) put a basketball equal distance away from player A & player B & say go get it. Whoever comes up with the ball wins the exercise. Dante Harris will come up with that ball most times.
(2) opponents gliding through the lane with the greatest of ease. Whether being harassed from behind, bumped or flat out met with force I believe the Hoyas have the personnel to limit unchallenged lane visitors. Jordan & Aminunchasing guys from behind and a nice rotation of bigs to bang down low.
(3) getting your lunch money stolen from you: some of last year’s players got the ball stripped out of their hands on weak drives or being careless after rebounds, I don’t see that happening as much with this years team. Will there be turnover? Absolutely. But I be,I eve this team will squeeze the rock and drive to the goal with more conviction. I mean that is Aminu’s specialty.
So blatant intimidation and banging is not allowed too much anymore but the Hoyas will excel in the above IMO and I think that will allow opponents some moments of quiet reflection,
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hoya73
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Post by hoya73 on Aug 19, 2021 14:11:48 GMT -5
Re 3) Is that toughness or fundamentals? Going back to the 80s, a guy like Wingate was not only physically tough, but also one of the most fundamentally sound players I've ever watched. Some credit for that probably goes to Bob Wade. What I hope to see less of, and saw even from Dante last year, are one handed passes that result in turnovers. I noticed Pickett threw a one handed turnover in the 4th Pistons Summer League game. Made me have flashbacks to too many of last season's GU turnovers. Combination of Dawg with good fundamental habits is what I'm hoping for.
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hoyasaxa2003
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Aug 19, 2021 14:16:03 GMT -5
Sadly, the physicality of the 80’s Hoyas (like the 90’s Knicks or the Pistons before them) has been legislated out of the game. We can play with more edge, but the good old days of “nothing’s for free” are gone, never to return. As somebody who was a child during the 1980s, what I know of that period comes from highlights, books, documentaries, etc. One thing that as really eye-opening for me was the Requiem for the Big East 30 for 30 documentary, which included a lot of clips from Georgetown in that period. I really was surprised by the physicality, examples of where Ewing was throwing fists (or at least, I seem to remember it was Ewing, but it was someone on our team), and overall a lot more physicality. And, when you see full game replays from back then, it's really obvious. As you said, that's largely evolved out of the game through rule changes. That level of physicality is truly impossible in today's game. We saw it happen after 2013 with the rule change. We could no longer do a tougher man to man, more physical defense, and what had been a very excellent defense in 2012 and 2013 collapsed, and JT3 truly never figured it out before leaving. While we still tried to defend that way, the fouls were out of control, as I harped on endlessly at the time. To bring it back to the thread, I am certainly not known around HoyaTalk for being optimistic. And, I think the team will face some headwinds and challenges going forward, but I think there are some reasons for positivity and looking forward to this coming season: 1. Aminu! We have not had a five star high school recruit on our team for about a decade (excluding transfers). We cannot underestimate how big a deal this is. A great player alone an raise a program's profile and lead to success. Of course, Aminu is untested in college, but I am optimistic that he will bring a spark and talent level to the squad that has been missing for a long time. 2. Our Guards. Not only do we have Dante Harris returning, who was a very good unexpected surprise last year, but we also have Carey coming back, who shot 40%+ from three. We need that again. Of course, Aminu will get guard minutes, too, along with the others and some of our new additions, like Beard and Riley. We have a lot of depth, in a sense of numbers, but we may have depth even when it comes to talent. I hope so. 3. No Proven Traditional Center. Okay, this might be half glass full. I would have much preferred to have Wahab than not, but if Ewing uses it as an opportunity to play a more modern style (instead of just sending the center to the post), I think that would be a good thing all around. My understanding is that even Mutombo is developing longer range shots. This will really hang on what our guys are capable of doing, and how Ewing sues them. 4. Returning Roster. While the returning roster is relatively small given turnover, I do think that the returning guys having experienced the BET and the NCAA tournament (even if we lost) is a great thing. It's a unique experience and can only help our guys. We are a young team this year, but that's okay. With a lot in flux, I truly think Georgetown's finish could range anywhere from 4th or so, down to the bottom few spots (unlikely, but possible). Most likely, we will be mid-range, which, depending on how our OOC goes and Big East record, could land us back in the NCAA tournament. On court, the biggest wild card is defense, and whether we will see more of the stifling BET defense, or the leaky defense that has mostly characterized Ewing's coaching career. I do think we have better athletes this year, which will hopefully help on that.
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Post by FromTheBeginning on Aug 19, 2021 14:55:25 GMT -5
A bunch of those "weak hands" turnovers now reside in College Park.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2021 15:28:14 GMT -5
We're a barrel of potential. That's my optimism.
We don't have a single returning player who's been an average BE starter yet... but we'll have at least four this year who I think could be that or better. And that's not counting even more talent that figures to begin the year coming off the bench.
There's been a lot of buzz off the court with these '21 guys (and future commits/recruits). With another year passing, additional roster refresh, and a BET title on the wall, the stank of the December 2019 exodus really feels like it's in our rearview mirror at this point.
Last year felt like a lame duck year in many ways -- though it surely ended even better than we could've hoped. I think/hope this season will be one where we can all appreciate being back in the stands (!) watching our young group of guys get better each game.
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hoyasaxa2003
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Aug 19, 2021 15:32:07 GMT -5
Another quick thought: I really hope we can come quick out of the gate stronger than expected. I think that if we can win a bunch of games OOC, including getting to USC, AND if Aminu performs well, it'll increase buzz, and combined with the BET last year, could help recruiting for 2022.
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Post by eastcoastteddy58 on Aug 19, 2021 16:37:35 GMT -5
I wanna see the entire bench playing at a competitive pace, all gas no brakes!
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Aug 19, 2021 21:06:42 GMT -5
We saw last year when the Hoyas won the BET that there is still a huge media universe out there just dying for the Hoyas to become relevant again. I'm optimistic that it wouldn't take much (say a top 5 BE finish, 1-2 BET wins, and an NCAA bid) for Gtown basketball to be the place to be for recruits and fans. Also, once we gain the old mojo you could see how the NIL money might flow to players marketing themselves to the black community which in turn would make us more attractive to recruits.
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Post by professorhoya on Aug 19, 2021 21:46:14 GMT -5
A bunch of those "weak hands" turnovers now reside in College Park. Et tu, Qrutus
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Post by HamptonHoya on Aug 19, 2021 22:23:14 GMT -5
We saw last year when the Hoyas won the BET that there is still a huge media universe out there just dying for the Hoyas to become relevant again. I'm optimistic that it wouldn't take much (say a top 5 BE finish, 1-2 BET wins, and an NCAA bid) for Gtown basketball to be the place to be for recruits and fans. Also, once we gain the old mojo you could see how the NIL money might flow to players marketing themselves to the black community which in turn would make us more attractive to recruits. And the post started out so well....
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