SSHoya
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"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Jun 17, 2022 7:52:33 GMT -5
From the richly ironic department, our devotion to preserving the legacy of Big John through Patrick has essentially destroyed Big John’s greatest legacy—that of a winning basketball team whose players made exemplary academic progress. We are all the way through the looking glass to an historically losing program whose academic progress stinks out loud. If Ewing still has the deflated basketball in the office, that would be about the most hypocritical thing I can imagine. I assume RT has retained possession of it!
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jun 17, 2022 8:06:59 GMT -5
From the richly ironic department, our devotion to preserving the legacy of Big John through Patrick has essentially destroyed Big John’s greatest legacy—that of a winning basketball team whose players made exemplary academic progress. We are all the way through the looking glass to an historically losing program whose academic progress stinks out loud. If Ewing still has the deflated basketball in the office, that would be about the most hypocritical thing I can imagine. Sadly the most deflated thing around GU Basketball is the Fan base….
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Post by bigelephant on Jun 18, 2022 10:54:29 GMT -5
If Ewing still has the deflated basketball in the office, that would be about the most hypocritical thing I can imagine. Sadly the most deflated thing around GU Basketball is the Fan base…. Sadly, I could not agree with you more!
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iowa80
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by iowa80 on Jun 18, 2022 13:31:28 GMT -5
I’m going to ask this in full knowledge of the fact that it marks me as a dummy. At least on this topic. How does one make credible judgements about academics given the number of transfers we’ve had? This may have been answered but not to my satisfaction. To the extent you are asking me that question, I am using the APR. I would also suggest that a revolving door of players speaks poorly of commitment to a GU education. I wasn’t addressing you specifically, but thanks. Let me see if I can put this better. Transfers do not strike me as a good measure of academic progress. And they certainly don’t going forward. They may be reflective of other issues, but not necessarily academics. I am interested in how players do academically while they are in the program.
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by TC on Jun 18, 2022 13:54:09 GMT -5
Let me see if I can put this better. Transfers do not strike me as a good measure of academic progress. And they certainly don’t going forward. They may be reflective of other issues, but not necessarily academics. I am interested in how players do academically while they are in the program. Transfers strike me as a good measure of academic progress - you are going to hurt your stats if your program runs kids out of the program - the end goal is to graduate student athletes. If the kids you have in the program are making good progress, and hypothetically even make the Big East All Academic team, and then you run them out before they can graduate, this measure rightly penalizes you for that.
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iowa80
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by iowa80 on Jun 18, 2022 13:59:50 GMT -5
Let me see if I can put this better. Transfers do not strike me as a good measure of academic progress. And they certainly don’t going forward. They may be reflective of other issues, but not necessarily academics. I am interested in how players do academically while they are in the program. Transfers strike me as a good measure of academic progress - you are going to hurt your stats if your program runs kids out of the program. That’s the point. Should you hurt your stats? I mean, even if there was any evidence of kids being run off, what does that have to do with academics while in the program.
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by TC on Jun 18, 2022 14:14:29 GMT -5
Transfers strike me as a good measure of academic progress - you are going to hurt your stats if your program runs kids out of the program. That’s the point. Should you hurt your stats? I mean, even if there was any evidence of kids being run off, what does that have to do with academics while in the program. Absolutely. The whole point of the APR is to measure eligibility and retention. Patrick Ewing has been horrible at retention, so his APR is going to get the program sanctioned unless the NCAA throws it out due to instability caused by NIL - which is not the reason that Patrick Ewing has been horrible at retention.
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iowa80
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by iowa80 on Jun 18, 2022 16:30:20 GMT -5
That’s the point. Should you hurt your stats? I mean, even if there was any evidence of kids being run off, what does that have to do with academics while in the program. Absolutely. The whole point of the APR is to measure eligibility and retention. Patrick Ewing has been horrible at retention, so his APR is going to get the program sanctioned unless the NCAA throws it out due to instability caused by NIL - which is not the reason that Patrick Ewing has been horrible at retention. OK. As I said above, I don't know this stuff. I would, however, still dispute the degree to which "retention" is an appropriate indicator, especially for academics, in today's world. What does MacInjo, for example, say about the academic experience at Georgetown.
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Post by professorhoya on Jun 18, 2022 16:53:02 GMT -5
So my understanding is that each player can earn 2 points a semester toward the calculation of APR--one for returning and one for being academically eligible to play. If a kid transfers out of a school and has a 2.60 GPA at the time, the school does not lose the retention point for that athlete and there is no adverse impact on the school's APR. If below 2.60 GPA then the transferring athlete costs the school a point. The 2.6 GPA is not the minimum to remain eligible to play, but just what is needed to avoid the school losing a point. The requirements for athletes to remain eligible for sports may be tougher at Georgetown, but in many schools it's around 1.8 GPA after the freshman year then moving to 1.9 and 2.0 by senior year. If the player is academically ineligible to play, the school also loses a point. I cannot recall any players who were academically ineligible in recent years, which must mean that some/many of the players transferring out must have let their GPAs fall below 2.6. I guess it's entirely possible that if a kid decides to transfer they could simply let their class work go to hell while trying to maintain minimum eligibility. Just trying to figure out where it is going wrong in the basketball program. Tre King might have been docked. He was certainly suspended by the school for student conduct misbehavior.
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Post by professorhoya on Jun 18, 2022 16:54:44 GMT -5
The whole APR thing will probably go away anyway with players getting payed now and the free transfer rule. Pretty soon people will be advocating that they shouldn't even have to go to class.
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Post by bearsandbulls on Jun 18, 2022 19:39:53 GMT -5
If Ewing still has the deflated basketball in the office, that would be about the most hypocritical thing I can imagine. Sadly the most deflated thing around GU Basketball is the Fan base…. Have to pretty much agree, but a close second is the reputation of Georgetown as a basketball power. The two seem linked. Allow me to add that coaches on the hot seat with big dollar contracts are not adverse to reaching down to academic marginal candidates in order to keep the good times rolling (extensions, etc.).
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jun 18, 2022 20:49:04 GMT -5
Sadly, winning will brush a lot under the rug.
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miracles87
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by miracles87 on Jun 18, 2022 23:33:31 GMT -5
Sadly, winning will brush a lot under the rug. You'll be sad if Georgetown Basketball is successful?
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jun 19, 2022 8:58:54 GMT -5
Absolutely. The whole point of the APR is to measure eligibility and retention. Patrick Ewing has been horrible at retention, so his APR is going to get the program sanctioned unless the NCAA throws it out due to instability caused by NIL - which is not the reason that Patrick Ewing has been horrible at retention. OK. As I said above, I don't know this stuff. I would, however, still dispute the degree to which "retention" is an appropriate indicator, especially for academics, in today's world. What does MacInjo, for example, say about the academic experience at Georgetown. To be fair the APR scores under JT3 weren't anything to write home about either but the scores lately are terrible to be kind... www.ncaa.org/sports/2013/11/20/division-i-academic-progress-rate-apr.aspxImplemented in 2003 as part of an ambitious academic reform effort in Division I, the Academic Progress Rate (APR) holds institutions accountable for the academic progress of their student-athletes through a team-based metric that accounts for the eligibility and retention of each student-athlete for each academic term.The APR emerged when Division I presidents and chancellors sought a more timely assessment of academic success at colleges and universities. At the time, the best measure was the graduation rate calculated under the federally mandated methodology that was based on a six-year window and did not take transfers into account. In addition to developing the APR, the presidents also adopted a new graduation rate methodology that more accurately reflects student-athlete transfer patterns and other factors affecting graduation (the new rate is called the Graduation Success Rate).The APR system includes rewards for superior academic performance and penalties for teams that do not achieve certain academic benchmarks. Data are collected annually, and results are announced in the spring.
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jun 19, 2022 13:37:44 GMT -5
Sadly, winning will brush a lot under the rug. You'll be sad if Georgetown Basketball is successful? I’m saying no one will care how we won, if we win. Graduation rates, transfers, 5th year seniors, etc.
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Post by trillesthoya on Jun 19, 2022 14:12:22 GMT -5
Sadly, winning will brush a lot under the rug. You'll be sad if Georgetown Basketball is successful? Are you saying you’re okay if Georgetown wins games at the cost of our players’ educations?
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by TC on Jun 19, 2022 19:01:55 GMT -5
I’m saying no one will care how we won, if we win. Graduation rates, transfers, 5th year seniors, etc. What about when you lose scholarships and postseason eligibility?
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Hoyaholic
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by Hoyaholic on Jun 19, 2022 20:22:36 GMT -5
There are 351 Division 1 programs. We have the 351st best coach.
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CTHoya08
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Bring back Izzo!
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Post by CTHoya08 on Jun 20, 2022 5:43:20 GMT -5
Sadly, winning will brush a lot under the rug. Sadly, we seem to be omitting the winning stage of this, and jumping right to the brushing-things-under-the-rug stage.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jun 20, 2022 5:48:08 GMT -5
I’m saying no one will care how we won, if we win. Graduation rates, transfers, 5th year seniors, etc. What about when you lose scholarships and postseason eligibility? Barring real change, We will take care of post-season ineligibility all by ourselves for the foreseeable future…
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