prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jun 6, 2020 16:32:17 GMT -5
Oh so you gonna quote me but you are not going to show me how to quote you, huhn? Oh okay, just gonna leave me hanging. Phoya, you got a lot of things to say don't you pal? Let me ask mtdt, dave and phoya something. I want to know from each one of you guys, name one person who you would want to hire that doesn't have any college coaching experience. Also, name one person who you would want GU to hire who does have very little college coaching experience. The reason why I am asking you guys to do so is to make it comparable to the hiring of Ewing. Please tell us who you guys would hire if you were GU and how this person would have done better than Ewing in four years. Ja! Click on the "quote" link. Then you write after the quoted post.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2020 16:32:17 GMT -5
PHoya, remember Williams did not want to play for Georgetown in the first place. He was only placating his dad when he chose GU initially.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jun 6, 2020 16:33:52 GMT -5
PHoya, remember Williams did not want to play for Georgetown in the first place. He was only placating his dad when he chose GU initially. It counts against our recruiting either way and unfortunately made Pat look bad at a difficult time for the program.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2020 16:34:13 GMT -5
Oh so you gonna quote me but you are not going to show me how to quote you, huhn? Oh okay, just gonna leave me hanging. Phoya, you got a lot of things to say don't you pal? Let me ask mtdt, dave and phoya something. I want to know from each one of you guys, name one person who you would want to hire that doesn't have any college coaching experience. Also, name one person who you would want GU to hire who does have very little college coaching experience. The reason why I am asking you guys to do so is to make it comparable to the hiring of Ewing. Please tell us who you guys would hire if you were GU and how this person would have done better than Ewing in four years. Ja! Click on the "quote" link. Then you write after the quoted post. Okay, thank you PHoya.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jun 6, 2020 16:35:23 GMT -5
Ja! Click on the "quote" link. Then you write after the quoted post. Okay, thank you PHoya. No problem, and welcome to the Board.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2020 16:42:11 GMT -5
PHoya, remember Williams did not want to play for Georgetown in the first place. He was only placating his dad when he chose GU initially. It counts against our recruiting either way and unfortunately made Pat look bad at a difficult time for the program. I dig what you're saying but coach didn't know what was in this kid's heart. I am pretty sure coach would have stayed away from him had he known that is heart was elsewhere. You can not blame that on coach. Personally, I believe Williams used the scandal to get out of his scholarship to go elsewhere. It actually worked out for both parties that TWill was eventually scooped up by another school. He wouldn't have been happy, since his heart wasn't in it. Coach and the Hoyas wouldn't been happy and he would have transferred after a year anyway. These kids that we have on the team may not be "the best" as far as rankings goes but that is debatable. These kids will compete and I am almost certain that the Hoyas will recruit a few four stars next year starting with Mutombo. Imagine if we get Mutombo, Baldwin or Cisse, Collins, Kepnang or just a couple of these guys how our team will look like in 21.
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mdtd
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Post by mdtd on Jun 6, 2020 16:42:54 GMT -5
Again, I do not know how to quote. However, mtdt...your analysis is not needed because of all those coaches were former coaches prior to landing their new jobs. I am almost certain they had relationships already established with a lot of these players that they recruited to the new school for which the coach was hired. What do you say when some of these top players have us in their finals list? What I would say is that GU and coach Ewing are making some progress in recruiting. I would say, it is going to take a couple of years before it starts to pay dividends and we start to see the top four star players choosing to play for the Hoyas. To Dave, I say Patrick's influence did pay off. Remember how he convinced Akinjo to come and join the Hoyas at the last hour? Remember when he got Mac to consider the Hoyas after he decommit from the Rutgers program? Remember Yurt saying he specifically wanted to play for Patrick Ewing? Do you remember a kid named LeBlanc who chose to leave the state of Louisiana? What about Cisse, who wears number 33 and is seriously considering to play for the Hoyas? Also, don't forget about brother Mutumbo who son is favored to play with the Hoyas. What do you say about Patrick's influence in those cases? Do you dismiss them? All good on the quoting thing. It's in the top right of an individual post, like if you can see who it's from, and when it was posted, just to the right of that. Find the bold text and go there. But, I have to disagree with the connections thing. One, I can't think of any other coach who went from non college to college aside from Penny and Howard. Andy Kennedy and Bryce Drew took a break from that before taking their jobs this offseason, that's the best I could come up with. Also, I wouldn't expect Mark Fox who coached at Georgia and took a break to have connections with Cal. I wouldn't expect Musselman to have Arkansas connections coming from Nevada. Hoiberg at Nebraska was the coach of the Bulls then nothing before being hired. I don't think he was recruiting. I don't think Mike Anderson was recruiting these guys at Arkansas that are going to St. John's. Mick Cronin was not going after guys at Cincinnati that he went after at UCLA. Some assistants may have had connections, but our assistants should've too. So, I don't really buy that. I don't think these guys had connections and if they did then at this point, that should've already shown with some guys. The class that would be juniors was a good class. But, we haven't gotten to that level yet. That's why I think 2021 is so important. Also, I mentioned this in my post and mentioned how Howard and Penny were the only two examples I could think of. If you can find another, please I'd love to compare the situations. As for the final list point, I typically say "don't get your hopes up, this hasn't really worked yet." For example, with Patrick Baldwin, I looked at his list and went "ok, so we're against Duke, (insert other blue bloods, I don't remember his list) and the team his dad coaches. Ok, this one is very unlikely." Once we land a kid like that, I'll start to get my hopes up. I do agree that it would take some time to build, but that was my expectation, pre defection, for this offseason. So, I think that while I have to lower it, if the team doesn't show anything, there could be some real problems this season. Also, Cisse isn't coming here. I'd be very shocked if it's anywhere other than G-League or LSU.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2020 16:50:23 GMT -5
Again, I do not know how to quote. However, mtdt...your analysis is not needed because of all those coaches were former coaches prior to landing their new jobs. I am almost certain they had relationships already established with a lot of these players that they recruited to the new school for which the coach was hired. What do you say when some of these top players have us in their finals list? What I would say is that GU and coach Ewing are making some progress in recruiting. I would say, it is going to take a couple of years before it starts to pay dividends and we start to see the top four star players choosing to play for the Hoyas. To Dave, I say Patrick's influence did pay off. Remember how he convinced Akinjo to come and join the Hoyas at the last hour? Remember when he got Mac to consider the Hoyas after he decommit from the Rutgers program? Remember Yurt saying he specifically wanted to play for Patrick Ewing? Do you remember a kid named LeBlanc who chose to leave the state of Louisiana? What about Cisse, who wears number 33 and is seriously considering to play for the Hoyas? Also, don't forget about brother Mutumbo who son is favored to play with the Hoyas. What do you say about Patrick's influence in those cases? Do you dismiss them? As for the final list point, I typically say "don't get your hopes up, this hasn't really worked yet." For example, with Patrick Baldwin, I looked at his list and went "ok, so we're against Duke, (insert other blue bloods, I don't remember his list) and the team his dad coaches. Ok, this one is very unlikely." Once we land a kid like that, I'll start to get my hopes up. I do agree that it would take some time to build, but that was my expectation, pre defection, for this offseason. So, I think that while I have to lower it, if the team doesn't show anything, there could be some real problems this season. Also, Cisse isn't coming here. I'd be very shocked if it's anywhere other than G-League or LSU. Do you find it interesting that Cisse decided to stay in the 21 class after we gave our last scholarship to Berger? My thinking is he may be seriously considering playing for Ewing and that is the reason why he chose to stay in 21 but I could be wrong. Also, let me ask you another coaching question. Which coach, who has experience, would you like for GU to hire? This person must be available, meaning not coaching for a school now, and must be looking for a college coaching job?
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jun 6, 2020 16:50:32 GMT -5
It counts against our recruiting either way and unfortunately made Pat look bad at a difficult time for the program. I dig what you're saying but coach didn't know what was in this kid's heart. I am pretty sure coach would have stayed away from him had he known that is heart was elsewhere. You can not blame that on coach. Personally, I believe Williams used the scandal to get out of his scholarship to go elsewhere. It actually worked out for both parties that TWill was eventually scooped up by another school. He wouldn't have been happy, since his heart wasn't in it. Coach and the Hoyas wouldn't been happy and he would have transferred after a year anyway. These kids that we have on the team may not be "the best" as far as rankings goes but that is debatable. These kids will compete and I am almost certain that the Hoyas will recruit a few four stars next year starting with Mutombo. Imagine if we get Mutombo, Baldwin or Cisse, Collins, Kepnang or just a couple of these guys how our team will look like in 21. With due diligence, Pat and the staff would've or should've known what the kid really wanted. That's on them. I agree that once Michigan was smelling around, Williams used the scandal to get out. I would love for Pat to bring in that type of class in 2021. Hope springs eternal.
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TC
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Post by TC on Jun 6, 2020 17:00:21 GMT -5
As for the final list point, I typically say "don't get your hopes up, this hasn't really worked yet." For example, with Patrick Baldwin, I looked at his list and went "ok, so we're against Duke, (insert other blue bloods, I don't remember his list) and the team his dad coaches. Ok, this one is very unlikely." Once we land a kid like that, I'll start to get my hopes up. I do agree that it would take some time to build, but that was my expectation, pre defection, for this offseason. So, I think that while I have to lower it, if the team doesn't show anything, there could be some real problems this season. Also, Cisse isn't coming here. I'd be very shocked if it's anywhere other than G-League or LSU. Do you find it interesting that Cisse decided to stay in the 21 class after we gave our last scholarship to Berger? My thinking is he may be seriously considering playing for Ewing and that is the reason why he chose to stay in 21 but I could be wrong. Also, let me ask you another coaching question. Which coach, who has experience, would you like for GU to hire? This person must be available, meaning not coaching for a school now, and must be looking for a college coaching job? 1) Our last scholarship was Holloway, not Berger 2) As far as I've seen Cisse hasn't said he's going back to 2021, he's just delayed his announcement 3) We wouldn't have signed Holloway if we thought we had any shot at signing Cisse 4) We have no shot at Cisse in 2020, 2021, 2022, etc
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2020 17:07:16 GMT -5
Do you find it interesting that Cisse decided to stay in the 21 class after we gave our last scholarship to Berger? My thinking is he may be seriously considering playing for Ewing and that is the reason why he chose to stay in 21 but I could be wrong. Also, let me ask you another coaching question. Which coach, who has experience, would you like for GU to hire? This person must be available, meaning not coaching for a school now, and must be looking for a college coaching job? 1) Our last scholarship was Holloway, not Berger 2) As far as I've seen Cisse hasn't said he's going back to 2021, he's just delayed his announcement 3) We wouldn't have signed Holloway if we thought we had any shot at signing Cisse 4) We have no shot at Cisse in 2020, 2021, 2022, etc Fair enough on Cisse. However, if we get Mutombo and one other top four star kid or maybe a third four star next year what would you say?
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Jun 6, 2020 17:16:42 GMT -5
I’m not sure it’s fair to the current coach to play “who would you rather as the coach”, nor at this time could you say it has to be someone available, when typically most coaches come from somewhere (either a lower program, top assistant, etc).
The candidates we were led to believe were in play (at least enough for rumors) last time were Amaker, Smart, Crean, Brey etc. All not only had college head coaching experience, but at a P5 school. At the time, the strength or argument for Ewing’s candidacy was his potential to sell recruits on his NBA connections and pro style game he could bring. This the same argument that was made for Howard and Hardaway at their Alma Mater’s despite their lack of any college experience either.
If you look at P5 and high major head coaching positions, very few are awarded to anyone without head coaching experience at the college level. Every coach in the BE was a head coach at a smaller school with the exception of Steele, how was the lead assistant already at Xavier, and Wojo, who was an assistant in college under arguably the greatest collegiate coach of all time.
Point is the situation of Ewing, Howard, and Hardaway is quite rare and only happens at an Alma Mater. It is a pretty rare phenomenon. We weren’t interviewing Kenny Aktinson or Mike Miller to take over based on their NBA assistant resumes, just like Ewing, Howard, or Hardaway weren’t going to go coach at any other college.
To me the only way you could argue that Ewing was a better candidate than an established guy was the fact you’d hope he could jumpstart recruiting with his name recognition, NBA cred, and deep network. If he could do that, you could look past the other weaknesses and inexperience compared to other possible guys. It’s the same reason Michigan and Memphis were able to sell their hires, and unfortunately 2 recruiting cycles in and they’ve accomplished that unlike Ewing.
Look I want Ewing to succeed as much as any of us. It’s June and here I am devoting time and energy to talking about this topic. Clearly I want us to win and do so under Ewing. I just admittedly refuse to give him and the administration a pass and put my head in the sand and pretend like everything is (and will) be fine. To me the argument to hire an unproven, untested coach was contingent on recruiting success and unlike the only other two examples of “leaps of faith” it’s been an underwhelming outcome so far by any measure.
Could this year turn around? Sure. But generally new coaches recruit best early and then maintain as success builds or crash and burn. I can’t think of any examples where recruiting declines over 2-3 years, then ascends again absent some amazing turnaround on the court. And usually that is circular, as the recruiting breeds success and vice versa.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2020 17:25:49 GMT -5
Okay, I believe this is going to be my last post for today. From what I can gather, coach PE is going on his fourth year at GU (I believe). Can you guys name the players that was/is recruited under coach PE? Akinjo and Mac were last minute recruits. Who were the players who was recruited in the past or, has been recruited under coach Ewing?
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 6, 2020 19:05:20 GMT -5
Okay, I believe this is going to be my last post for today. From what I can gather, coach PE is going on his fourth year at GU (I believe). Can you guys name the players that was/is recruited under coach PE? Akinjo and Mac were last minute recruits. Who were the players who was recruited in the past or, has been recruited under coach Ewing? Neither McClung nor Akinjo were last minute recruits. McClung committed after Midnight Madness on Oct. 15, 2017. Akinjo committed on April 16, 2018, the same day as Omer Yurtseven.
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mdtd
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Post by mdtd on Jun 6, 2020 20:12:24 GMT -5
As for the final list point, I typically say "don't get your hopes up, this hasn't really worked yet." For example, with Patrick Baldwin, I looked at his list and went "ok, so we're against Duke, (insert other blue bloods, I don't remember his list) and the team his dad coaches. Ok, this one is very unlikely." Once we land a kid like that, I'll start to get my hopes up. I do agree that it would take some time to build, but that was my expectation, pre defection, for this offseason. So, I think that while I have to lower it, if the team doesn't show anything, there could be some real problems this season. Also, Cisse isn't coming here. I'd be very shocked if it's anywhere other than G-League or LSU. Do you find it interesting that Cisse decided to stay in the 21 class after we gave our last scholarship to Berger? My thinking is he may be seriously considering playing for Ewing and that is the reason why he chose to stay in 21 but I could be wrong. Also, let me ask you another coaching question. Which coach, who has experience, would you like for GU to hire? This person must be available, meaning not coaching for a school now, and must be looking for a college coaching job? Both of these were already covered, and for the second one I would hire someone at a lower school. That being said, if I had to go with someone who is not in a job, I'd have to go John Beilein, Dan Majerle then Danny Manning in that order. These were just off the top, there probably is someone I'm missing. But, if I had the low/midmajor (still reasonable to get, yet coaching) options, Beilien would be the only guy I'd actually go after. Hopefully, we don't have to reach that point and this season/the 2021 recruiting class changes something.
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Post by reformation on Jun 7, 2020 7:00:58 GMT -5
In terms of setting benchmarks to track Ewing's & the program's progress, we might also look at schools that are more comparable to Gtwn. I get that none are perfect comps and to some degree coaches in basketball football run their own show,however; they do not live completely outside of the university they are associated with in general either. Obvious ones that come to mind include Stanford, Vandy(New ex NBA star coach and then maybe UVA Mich California UCLA. I totally understand the diff's between some of these places and Gtwn, but they are better comps in many ways than some BE places or LSU which people refer to a lot. We are currently recruiting at basically the same level as Harvard +/-. Despite all the negative chatter re Amaker on the board it would have been interesting to hear what he would say re recruiting at Gtwn if he were coach given he probably has way more academic constraints at Harvard than we do.
In terms of this whole recruiting cycle discussion--i'd concede its a factor but not decisively so in a lot of cases. RJ Davis for ex to pick a recent target had little to do with the recruiting cycle
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jun 7, 2020 7:24:48 GMT -5
I was a bit disappointed to see Mac transfer and how little traction we had in the transfer/5th year market. Also, hard to compare GU to large state schools. Duke, Nova, Vandy, Harvard and Stanford seem like better comparisons. Private schools with athletic ambitions and success.
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Post by reformation on Jun 7, 2020 7:31:33 GMT -5
Following on the above Northwestern is not a terrible comp either(probably where we are now). It was interesting on their website that they list where their recruits has other offers from. What stands out is that their commits generally choose Northwestern over other major programs(including us) vs a third tier univ.for most of the guys we are getting. Obviously they are a private high their academic univ that does care about sports, that is generally terrible in basketball, no tradition etc--we really should be doing better than they do by a fair amt in recruiting. They have a coach with a name, but he is not in the same galaxy as Ewing.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Jun 7, 2020 9:35:15 GMT -5
Per usual ...Very misleading how you posted that information. It's a list from Rivals.com. You're welcome to take out the transfers. DFW...thanks for the good work. Your contributions here are appreciated by the vast majority here.
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DudeSlade
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Post by DudeSlade on Jun 12, 2020 9:55:19 GMT -5
Don't know where else to ask this since there's not a Committed 2020 Class page, but just wanted to ask if anyone knew whether all our commits are signed at this point? or who is actually signed?
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