hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Apr 12, 2020 20:16:03 GMT -5
Why do you think a player who got paid (deservingly so I’d say) would not also value an educational opportunity? Because I like to think (obviously naively to people on this Board) that a kid who would leave GU to go to a school whose basketball program reeks of corruption just because he could get more playing time is not what I picture as someone who would consider himself a "student athlete" And, it’s quite possible to get a very good education at Arizona or LSU. Lots of people do it every year.
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rockhoya
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Apr 12, 2020 22:56:18 GMT -5
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Post by rockhoya on Apr 12, 2020 22:56:18 GMT -5
Why do you feel (and assume) the players don’t value an education? Why do you feel they can’t be students and athletes at the same time? Are you kidding? These students left GU, an elite educational institution, for Arizona, LSU, and Southern Dogpatch. Did you watch The Scheme? Wade and Miller have been paying kids for years. If you (and/or your parents) valued an education you wouldn't go anywhere near those schools. I’ve read a lot of elitist things on this board, but really, this is all you could come up with using your “superior” education? Not to mention you’re generalizing a whole group (the whole team) but I honestly don’t care to correct you so let’s agree to disagree, continue on with your colorful theories.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 13, 2020 9:23:08 GMT -5
95-99% of the kids playing high major basketball do not care about education (at least primarily), regardless of whether they are being paid under the table or not. This isn't meant as an indictment of the kids, it's just reality of college basketball in 2020.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Apr 13, 2020 9:40:34 GMT -5
I thought the scheme really only had dirt on Miller & Wade. There is no way to misinterpret the context of the calls. The others who sat in on the meetings with the runner weren't a big deal to me. The offers that Wade referenced you just wonder where the money trail leads. If it's right out of the coaches pockets or boosters. They also weren't necessarily directing money to the players as much as they were to the families so I feel for the kids. At the end of the day we have to be above this stuff and figure out a way to put a good team on the court. We haven't done that in too long so it really just sounds like sour grapes on our collective part.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Apr 13, 2020 10:05:42 GMT -5
Are you kidding? These students left GU, an elite educational institution, for Arizona, LSU, and Southern Dogpatch. Did you watch The Scheme? Wade and Miller have been paying kids for years. If you (and/or your parents) valued an education you wouldn't go anywhere near those schools. I’ve read a lot of elitist things on this board, but really, this is all you could come up with using your “superior” education? Not to mention you’re generalizing a whole group (the whole team) but I honestly don’t care to correct you so let’s agree to disagree, continue on with your colorful theories. You want elitist how's this? No more athletic scholarships. All college scholarship based on need+academic performance. Instead of athletes getting free ride for a year or two, taking bogus or turkey courses and then leaving to pursue their NBA/NFL dreams give that money to deserving, underprivileged high school kids who instead of spending hours in the gym or weight room spent them learning how to read and write, understand math principles, history and science. Some of those kids might actually be talented athletes who would love to play intercollegiate sports but not at the cost of their academic performance - do you realize how much time these "student/athletes" have to spend working out and practicing nevermind travelling? I'm sure LSU and Arizona have legit academics but their athletic programs have disgraced the entire University. Would you be so anti-elitist if it turns out GU were being mentioned in a fture HBO special like The Scheme?
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Apr 13, 2020 10:17:23 GMT -5
95-99% of the kids playing high major basketball do not care about education (at least primarily), regardless of whether they are being paid under the table or not. This isn't meant as an indictment of the kids, it's just reality of college basketball in 2020. I think that's a little high. Maybe 65% to 75%? I know kids have big dreams, but there are still plenty of players who may be dreaming of or hoping for a pro career, but realize that they need to work hard in school to have an alternate career path.
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Apr 13, 2020 10:17:27 GMT -5
I’ve read a lot of elitist things on this board, but really, this is all you could come up with using your “superior” education? Not to mention you’re generalizing a whole group (the whole team) but I honestly don’t care to correct you so let’s agree to disagree, continue on with your colorful theories. You want elitist how's this? No more athletic scholarships. All college scholarship based on need+academic performance. Instead of athletes getting free ride for a year or two, taking bogus or turkey courses and then leaving to pursue their NBA/NFL dreams give that money to deserving, underprivileged high school kids who instead of spending hours in the gym or weight room spent them learning how to read and write, understand math principles, history and science. Some of those kids might actually be talented athletes who would love to play intercollegiate sports but not at the cost of their academic performance - do you realize how much time these "student/athletes" have to spend working out and practicing nevermind travelling? I'm sure LSU and Arizona have legit academics but their athletic programs have disgraced the entire University. Would you be so anti-elitist if it turns out GU were being mentioned in a fture HBO special like The Scheme? That's fine with me. Frankly, it's absurd that universities have professional sports teams affiliated with them. I would not be upset if GU were mentioned in that HBO show. I think that, as long as we have a professional basketball team in our athletic department, we should be paying the players. I don't care that it's against the rules since the rules are completely unjust and are rigged against these players with the sole intent of enriching a small number of coaches and administrators.
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rockhoya
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Apr 13, 2020 10:28:17 GMT -5
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Post by rockhoya on Apr 13, 2020 10:28:17 GMT -5
I’ve read a lot of elitist things on this board, but really, this is all you could come up with using your “superior” education? Not to mention you’re generalizing a whole group (the whole team) but I honestly don’t care to correct you so let’s agree to disagree, continue on with your colorful theories. You want elitist how's this? No more athletic scholarships. All college scholarship based on need+academic performance. Instead of athletes getting free ride for a year or two, taking bogus or turkey courses and then leaving to pursue their NBA/NFL dreams give that money to deserving, underprivileged high school kids who instead of spending hours in the gym or weight room spent them learning how to read and write, understand math principles, history and science. Some of those kids might actually be talented athletes who would love to play intercollegiate sports but not at the cost of their academic performance - do you realize how much time these "student/athletes" have to spend working out and practicing nevermind travelling? I'm sure LSU and Arizona have legit academics but their athletic programs have disgraced the entire University. Would you be so anti-elitist if it turns out GU were being mentioned in a fture HBO special like The Scheme? Have you lived the NCAA athlete life? You’re making a lot of assumptions. Also, yeah it takes a very elitist bias to think that these student-athletes benefit more from the school than the school benefits from them. That’s even without listing some very specific business-related benefits sports programs afford certain schools. Also, you’re making an assumption that the only way for people to develop and have an education that helps them to understand the world is tied to being a slave to the secondary school system in this country. Not to mention a lot of student athletes focus on their academics during the winter and summer sessions. I could go on for days but there’s no hope for you so I’ll just leave it there. Have fun on your high horse though, it definitely makes you and your judgement (moral or otherwise) soundproof. Kudos. 🙄
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rockhoya
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Apr 13, 2020 10:28:38 GMT -5
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Post by rockhoya on Apr 13, 2020 10:28:38 GMT -5
95-99% of the kids playing high major basketball do not care about education (at least primarily), regardless of whether they are being paid under the table or not. This isn't meant as an indictment of the kids, it's just reality of college basketball in 2020. This is not true at all.
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rockhoya
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Apr 13, 2020 10:31:06 GMT -5
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Post by rockhoya on Apr 13, 2020 10:31:06 GMT -5
95-99% of the kids playing high major basketball do not care about education (at least primarily), regardless of whether they are being paid under the table or not. This isn't meant as an indictment of the kids, it's just reality of college basketball in 2020. I can apply this logic to assert that 95-99% of college students in general don’t care about education, but that would be incorrect. And again, I don’t know why people are acting like pursuing a university degree is a virtue in and of itself. You do realize a lot of these schools primarily focus on profit right? And that the college educational experience goes far beyond the classroom right? And that many of these athletes stretch out their coursework over the course of a year in the way a lot of regular students do not right?
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rockhoya
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Apr 13, 2020 10:32:29 GMT -5
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Post by rockhoya on Apr 13, 2020 10:32:29 GMT -5
You want elitist how's this? No more athletic scholarships. All college scholarship based on need+academic performance. Instead of athletes getting free ride for a year or two, taking bogus or turkey courses and then leaving to pursue their NBA/NFL dreams give that money to deserving, underprivileged high school kids who instead of spending hours in the gym or weight room spent them learning how to read and write, understand math principles, history and science. Some of those kids might actually be talented athletes who would love to play intercollegiate sports but not at the cost of their academic performance - do you realize how much time these "student/athletes" have to spend working out and practicing nevermind travelling? I'm sure LSU and Arizona have legit academics but their athletic programs have disgraced the entire University. Would you be so anti-elitist if it turns out GU were being mentioned in a fture HBO special like The Scheme? That's fine with me. Frankly, it's absurd that universities have professional sports teams affiliated with them. I would not be upset if GU were mentioned in that HBO show. I think that, as long as we have a professional basketball team in our athletic department, we should be paying the players. I don't care that it's against the rules since the rules are completely unjust and are rigged against these players with the sole intent of enriching a small number of coaches and administrators. Of course it would be fine with you cause you’re narrow minded too. Being elitist isn’t a good thing, objectively.
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Apr 13, 2020 10:36:04 GMT -5
That's fine with me. Frankly, it's absurd that universities have professional sports teams affiliated with them. I would not be upset if GU were mentioned in that HBO show. I think that, as long as we have a professional basketball team in our athletic department, we should be paying the players. I don't care that it's against the rules since the rules are completely unjust and are rigged against these players with the sole intent of enriching a small number of coaches and administrators. Of course it would be fine with you cause you’re narrow minded too. Being elitist isn’t a good thing, objectively. Why should a university run a professional sports team? How does this make any sense? Why is the US the only place in the world where this happens? It's not being elitist to think this is a crazy mismatch and should change.
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rockhoya
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Apr 13, 2020 10:41:17 GMT -5
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Post by rockhoya on Apr 13, 2020 10:41:17 GMT -5
Of course it would be fine with you cause you’re narrow minded too. Being elitist isn’t a good thing, objectively. Why should a university run a professional sports team? How does this make any sense? Why is the US the only place in the world where this happens? It's not being elitist to think this is a crazy mismatch and should change. Since when does the university run a professional sports team? And if they did, what is fundamentally wrong with that? Are you bitter cause you wouldn’t have had an opportunity to participate? You’re just salty because you’d be excluded? God forbid a school gives a student with athletic talent an opportunity to earn money for the school and support extracurricular endeavors. You do know that the term “university” implies professionally funded research, I.e. academic departments that take on professional status and do work that is in the public’s interest, right? I don’t know how to explain to you how elitist you are if you think that sitting in a classroom is a virtue in and of itself and that individuals cans work on their physical profile and their mental at the same time....the two are not mutually exclusive.
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TC
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Post by TC on Apr 13, 2020 10:46:05 GMT -5
Why should a university run a professional sports team? How does this make any sense? Why is the US the only place in the world where this happens? It's not being elitist to think this is a crazy mismatch and should change. Since when does the university run a professional sports team? I'd peg it to whenever the NCAA started generating significant television revenue, others might argue when degrees and graduation stopped mattering.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Apr 13, 2020 10:53:33 GMT -5
Since when does the university run a professional sports team? I'd peg it to whenever the NCAA started generating significant television revenue, others might argue when degrees and graduation stopped mattering. So in reality never. So in reality you’re must misusing words and mischaracterizing the situation. Cool.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Apr 13, 2020 11:06:05 GMT -5
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 13, 2020 13:00:01 GMT -5
95-99% of the kids playing high major basketball do not care about education (at least primarily), regardless of whether they are being paid under the table or not. This isn't meant as an indictment of the kids, it's just reality of college basketball in 2020. I can apply this logic to assert that 95-99% of college students in general don’t care about education, but that would be incorrect. And again, I don’t know why people are acting like pursuing a university degree is a virtue in and of itself. You do realize a lot of these schools primarily focus on profit right? And that the college educational experience goes far beyond the classroom right? And that many of these athletes stretch out their coursework over the course of a year in the way a lot of regular students do not right? The primary factor in most high-major kids picking their school is not education, but rather the basketball program. These kids, IF they want it, can get a high quality education at a lot of different schools. Yes, Georgetown is a great academic institution, and I would never go anywhere else if I had to go back, but for a lot of kids, that Georgetown might be more elite academically than other places recruiting them probably makes little difference. I made no judgment on whether pursuing a degree is a virtue. I do think pursuing a degree can help a lot of guys if their basketball careers don't pan out (and they do not for most guys). And I have no idea what your comments on schools making profit has anything to do with whether guys want an education or not. It's really not relevant. And, of course athletes tend to spread out their classes more than non-athlete students. I do not see anything wrong with that. Being a high-major athlete is very time consuming, so why would I blame them for spreading them out so that the burden is easier to juggle? Many incoming students with a ton of AP credits also spread out their classes so they have fewer credits per semester.
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Apr 13, 2020 13:58:24 GMT -5
If anyone is disputing the fact that major D1 sports AREN’T for profit businesses in which the majority of players could care less about their academic degree, then you must also think it’s 1984 still.
The network TV money and the draw of a pro contact at the next level (NBA or NFL) have changed the landscape to a point where it’s not even debatable anymore. Only at the lowest of mid majors is their any semblance of amateur athletics and a concept of student athletes who choose a school first and the athletic program second.
A Georgetown degree sadly means nothing to most of these kids, if anything it works against us as they know their required coursework may be tougher. Case in point you’ll see kids more interested in a commuter school like Iona now with the chance to play for Pitino. Do you think any of those kids he is getting even heard of Iona before or was interested in the school?
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Apr 14, 2020 8:54:36 GMT -5
If anyone is disputing the fact that major D1 sports AREN’T for profit businesses in which the majority of players could care less about their academic degree, then you must also think it’s 1984 still. The network TV money and the draw of a pro contact at the next level (NBA or NFL) have changed the landscape to a point where it’s not even debatable anymore. Only at the lowest of mid majors is their any semblance of amateur athletics and a concept of student athletes who choose a school first and the athletic program second. A Georgetown degree sadly means nothing to most of these kids, if anything it works against us as they know their required coursework may be tougher. Case in point you’ll see kids more interested in a commuter school like Iona now with the chance to play for Pitino. Do you think any of those kids he is getting even heard of Iona before or was interested in the school? The irony is you’re the one being naive. I don’t have to do thought experiments, I’m not developing theories. Your hyperbole and blanket statements aren’t true and aren’t helpful. Again, if you haven’t experienced it don’t speak on it. Period. You just can’t conceive of a world where someone can excel in the court/field and in the classroom, I get it. You’re in your own fears. I assure you there are plenty of young men and women out there with much more courage than you that have taken on the challenge of pushing themselves both athletically and academically. Again, just because SOME student-athletes don’t love school doesn’t mean that they all don’t. Just like because SOME regular students don’t love school doesn’t mean that all regular students don’t like school. He’s a bit more tangible (theoretical) example. You think Akinjo had the same level of respect for the classroom as each and every one of his teammates did? If they were all just on campus to play basketball and party, might they not have gotten along better? Teams have all different personalities no matter how big or small. There will always be a group of student athletes that push themselves academically too. I think you’re way too focused on conflating a one and done’s experience with the average college athlete’s. You really think the Stanford’s of the world, the Northwesterns, the Ivies, etc. really only bring these kids to play sports? These programs are highly selective at any level and so many have the option to choose athletes with academic aspiration. Again, it’s insulting to imply that one can’t do both, even if that’s not your primary implication.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Apr 14, 2020 10:08:18 GMT -5
If anyone is disputing the fact that major D1 sports AREN’T for profit businesses in which the majority of players could care less about their academic degree, then you must also think it’s 1984 still. The network TV money and the draw of a pro contact at the next level (NBA or NFL) have changed the landscape to a point where it’s not even debatable anymore. Only at the lowest of mid majors is their any semblance of amateur athletics and a concept of student athletes who choose a school first and the athletic program second. A Georgetown degree sadly means nothing to most of these kids, if anything it works against us as they know their required coursework may be tougher. Case in point you’ll see kids more interested in a commuter school like Iona now with the chance to play for Pitino. Do you think any of those kids he is getting even heard of Iona before or was interested in the school? The irony is you’re the one being naive. I don’t have to do thought experiments, I’m not developing theories. Your hyperbole and blanket statements aren’t true and aren’t helpful. Again, if you haven’t experienced it don’t speak on it. Period. You just can’t conceive of a world where someone can excel in the court/field and in the classroom, I get it. You’re in your own fears. I assure you there are plenty of young men and women out there with much more courage than you that have taken on the challenge of pushing themselves both athletically and academically. Again, just because SOME student-athletes don’t love school doesn’t mean that they all don’t. Just like because SOME regular students don’t love school doesn’t mean that all regular students don’t like school. He’s a bit more tangible (theoretical) example. You think Akinjo had the same level of respect for the classroom as each and every one of his teammates did? If they were all just on campus to play basketball and party, might they not have gotten along better? Teams have all different personalities no matter how big or small. There will always be a group of student athletes that push themselves academically too. I think you’re way too focused on conflating a one and done’s experience with the average college athlete’s. You really think the Stanford’s of the world, the Northwesterns, the Ivies, etc. really only bring these kids to play sports? These programs are highly selective at any level and so many have the option to choose athletes with academic aspiration. Again, it’s insulting to imply that one can’t do both, even if that’s not your primary implication. I think you just proved our point. When was the last time an Ivy, Northwestern or Stanford won a national championship or were even nationally ranked/relevant? Watching Notre Dame football slowly sink into irrelevance also proves that you can't do both anymore.
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