TC
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Post by TC on May 13, 2020 14:31:41 GMT -5
*My opinion that’s backed by logic and evidence. Again, another opinion. Repeatedly posting "your opinion" is just a way of refusing to consider any other viewpoint but your own, and in this case, also refusing to consider facts when they are inconvenient.
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TC
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Post by TC on May 13, 2020 15:00:15 GMT -5
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hoyajinx
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COVID-19
May 13, 2020 15:12:25 GMT -5
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Post by hoyajinx on May 13, 2020 15:12:25 GMT -5
His followers will be clamoring for this while (without the slightest sense of irony and with obvious, shameless hypocrisy) continuing to bash China for not being forthcoming with their actual statistics.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on May 13, 2020 18:11:34 GMT -5
Repeatedly posting "your opinion" is just a way of refusing to consider any other viewpoint but your own, and in this case, also refusing to consider facts when they are inconvenient. Merely trying to note that what’s being posted is opinion, not fact. People regularly post things as if they are truths while they are merely one person’s interpretation of facts.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on May 13, 2020 19:53:41 GMT -5
Repeatedly posting "your opinion" is just a way of refusing to consider any other viewpoint but your own, and in this case, also refusing to consider facts when they are inconvenient. Merely trying to note that what’s being posted is opinion, not fact. People regularly post things as if they are truths while they are merely one person’s interpretation of facts. I don't see a response to TC's citing of the results in South Korea and Germany.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on May 13, 2020 19:56:33 GMT -5
It's not necessary to do any more, because we have successfully reached our goal. Didn't we basically get a "mission accomplished" comment the other day from the White House? So we're done. We win, virus loses, end of story. Thank God for Trump.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on May 15, 2020 11:51:00 GMT -5
To the extent the Trump Regime seeks to rush to market a covid-19 vaccination prior to actual testing for safety, the Congress should ensure that the this extant program can cover any losses arising therefrom. Obligate some more money now. The United States has the safest, most effective vaccine supply in history. In the majority of cases, vaccines cause no side effects, however they can occur, as with any medication—but most are mild. Very rarely, people experience more serious side effects, like allergic reactions. In those instances, the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP) allows individuals to file a petition for compensation. www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation/data/index.html
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2020 9:13:02 GMT -5
Pushed hard by Fox News, too.
Trump said “what do you have to lose?”
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on May 16, 2020 9:20:28 GMT -5
Apparently disagreeing with the president’s politics is an illegal situation.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on May 16, 2020 19:34:29 GMT -5
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TC
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Post by TC on May 16, 2020 21:23:58 GMT -5
I'll summarize this article : "This generation is a bunch of wimps because Woodstock happened a month before the 1968 Pandemic hit the US and they didn't shut it down."
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on May 17, 2020 6:18:45 GMT -5
I'll summarize this article : "This generation is a bunch of wimps because Woodstock happened a month before the 1968 Pandemic hit the US and they didn't shut it down." 1. The prior 1957 H2N2 pandemic also provided some immunity for the H3N2 of 1968. (There is no analogous immunity for covid-19) 2. The H2N2 vaccine proved somewhat effective in preventing H3N2 infections. (There is no analogous vaccine that has been show to be effective in preventing covid-19 infections). Perhaps some of the Hoya doctors may offer a much more informed opinion on the analogy between the H3N2 pandemic in 1968 and the current covid-19 pandemic. (I was actually living in Hong Kong in 1968 and remember that flu season). "Because H3N2 was closely related to the 1957 pandemic, many people were immune. This kept the 1968 H3N2 flu epidemic relatively mild, especially when compared to the 1918 Spanish flu. For some reason, however – possibly antigenic drift – the second wave of the H3N2 flu that struck in 1969 was more deadly." Additionally, the H2N2 vaccine proved somewhat effective in reducing H3N2 infections. AFAIK, there is no existing vaccine with respect to covid-19. “Researchers speculated that (H3N2’s) more sporadic and variable impact in different regions of the world were mediated by differences in prior N2 immunity. Therefore, the 1968 pandemic has been aptly characterized as ‘smoldering,’” Kilbourne wrote. Emphasizing that point, vaccination by Air Force cadets with the H2N2 vaccine reduced H3N2 infections by 54%.www.biospace.com/article/the-1968-pandemic-strain-h3n2-persists-will-covid-19-/In another study of the pandemic vaccine’s efficacy, researchers concluded that the attack rate in persons receiving high doses of the pandemic vaccine was at least 50% lower than in those who received the seasonal A(H2) vaccine. In addition, high-dose vaccine recipients who did become ill experienced milder illness, with fewer and shorter fevers and less need for bed rest.61 However, the authors cautioned that the standard dose of the pandemic vaccine was not effective, and multiple doses were not feasible given the timing of the pandemic and existing production parameters. A 2007 Cochrane review of influenza vaccines concluded that one-dose or two-dose monovalent pandemic vaccines used in 1968 demonstrated 65% protection against ILI, 93% protection against illness from influenza A(H3N2) virus infection, and 65% protection against hospitalizations.62 However, their review used a solitary study to assess all outcomes except for ILI, which was assessed using four studies, limiting generalizability of the results. ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/10.2105/AJPH.2019.305557Article discusses possible reasons for differing patterns of mortality in pandemic seasons between North America and Europe/Asia: We found a consistent pattern of mortality being delayed until the second pandemic season of A/H3N2 circulation in Europe and Asia. We hypothesize that this phenomenon may be explained by higher preexisting neuraminidase immunity (from the A/H2N2 era) in Europe and Asia than in North America, combined with a subsequent drift in the neuraminidase antigen during 1969/1970 academic.oup.com/jid/article/192/2/233/856805
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hoyajinx
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Post by hoyajinx on May 17, 2020 6:42:34 GMT -5
I'll summarize this article : "This generation is a bunch of wimps because Woodstock happened a month before the 1968 Pandemic hit the US and they didn't shut it down." 1. The prior 1957 H2N2 pandemic also provided immunity for the H3N2 of 1968. (There is no analogous immunity for covid-19) 2. The H2N2 vaccine proved somewhat effective in preventing H3N2 infections. (There is no analogous vaccine that has been show to be effective in preventing covid-19 infections). Perhaps some of the Hoya doctors may offer a much more informed opinion on the analogy between the H3N2 pandemic in 1968 and the current covid-19 pandemic. (I was actually living in Hong Kong in 1968 and remember that flu season). "Because H3N2 was closely related to the 1957 pandemic, many people were immune. This kept the 1968 H3N2 flu epidemic relatively mild, especially when compared to the 1918 Spanish flu. For some reason, however – possibly antigenic drift – the second wave of the H3N2 flu that struck in 1969 was more deadly." Additionally, the H2N2 vaccine proved somewhat effective in reducing H3N2 infections. AFAIK, there is no existing vaccine with respect to covid-19. “Researchers speculated that (H3N2’s) more sporadic and variable impact in different regions of the world were mediated by differences in prior N2 immunity. Therefore, the 1968 pandemic has been aptly characterized as ‘smoldering,’” Kilbourne wrote. Emphasizing that point, vaccination by Air Force cadets with the H2N2 vaccine reduced H3N2 infections by 54%.www.biospace.com/article/the-1968-pandemic-strain-h3n2-persists-will-covid-19-/I’m obviously no doctor, but just looking at the numbers, they seem to suggest that this response was appropriate. Without a total global lockdown, H3N2 killed between 1 million and 4 million worldwide and 100,000 in the US between 1968 and 1970, almost two years. COVID-19, with a global lockdown, has killed 350,000 worldwide and nearly 90,000 in the US in FIVE MONTHS. It’s hard to imagine the devastation that would have taken place if we took the same approach. I would assume we would be in the millions of deaths worldwide and well into six figures nationally with no end in sight. The “end-the-lockdown” crowd is willing to push any false narrative to try to minimize COVID-19 and has been doing it since day 1. It’s just getting tiresome. Anything to pretend that this anything other than sacrificing lives for the sake of the stock market. And they’re not even that good at pretending.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on May 17, 2020 6:46:44 GMT -5
1. The prior 1957 H2N2 pandemic also provided immunity for the H3N2 of 1968. (There is no analogous immunity for covid-19) 2. The H2N2 vaccine proved somewhat effective in preventing H3N2 infections. (There is no analogous vaccine that has been show to be effective in preventing covid-19 infections). Perhaps some of the Hoya doctors may offer a much more informed opinion on the analogy between the H3N2 pandemic in 1968 and the current covid-19 pandemic. (I was actually living in Hong Kong in 1968 and remember that flu season). "Because H3N2 was closely related to the 1957 pandemic, many people were immune. This kept the 1968 H3N2 flu epidemic relatively mild, especially when compared to the 1918 Spanish flu. For some reason, however – possibly antigenic drift – the second wave of the H3N2 flu that struck in 1969 was more deadly." Additionally, the H2N2 vaccine proved somewhat effective in reducing H3N2 infections. AFAIK, there is no existing vaccine with respect to covid-19. “Researchers speculated that (H3N2’s) more sporadic and variable impact in different regions of the world were mediated by differences in prior N2 immunity. Therefore, the 1968 pandemic has been aptly characterized as ‘smoldering,’” Kilbourne wrote. Emphasizing that point, vaccination by Air Force cadets with the H2N2 vaccine reduced H3N2 infections by 54%.www.biospace.com/article/the-1968-pandemic-strain-h3n2-persists-will-covid-19-/I’m obviously no doctor, but just looking at the numbers, they seem to suggest that this response was appropriate. Without a total global lockdown, H3N2 killed between 1 million and 4 million worldwide and 100,000 in the US between 1968 and 1970, almost two years. COVID-19, with a global lockdown, has killed 350,000 worldwide and nearly 90,000 in the US in FIVE MONTHS. It’s hard to imagine the devastation that would have taken place if we took the same approach. I would assume we would be in the millions of deaths worldwide and well into six figures nationally with no end in sight. The “end-the-lockdown” crowd is willing to push any false narrative to try to minimize COVID-19 and has been doing it since day 1. It’s just getting tiresome. Anything to pretend that this anything other than sacrificing lives for the sake of the stock market. And they’re not even that good at pretending. I too am no doctor. But I'd love to hear an informed opinion from the Hoya doctors on the citations I've provided but perhaps they are too busy. Regardless, I don't turn to the New York Post for medical and/or public health advice. But that's just me.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on May 17, 2020 15:15:48 GMT -5
I'll summarize this article : "This generation is a bunch of wimps because Woodstock happened a month before the 1968 Pandemic hit the US and they didn't shut it down." Negative. What this article describes is two completely different approaches to severe pandemics. In the 1969 pandemic, over 100,000 Americans died. Due to a much smaller population in 1969, that can be roughly scaled up to over 160,000 deaths. So this is in roughly the same ballpark as COVID-19. Yet life continued almost without interruption with little fanfare from the media and no attempt to politicize it. Businesses were not shut down and the economy did not suffer. Logic and intuition would suggest that, were social distancing to have been used in 1969, fatalities would have been fewer though this cannot be proven; and, if it were reduced, by how much. On the other hand, it also demonstrates how the media treated the two pandemics, as well as how much Trump, with his daily press meetings, publicized the pandemic. It also demonstrates how the Democrats joined Trump in using it as political gaming. Today's media loves tragedies as it sell advertising, so it is in their self-interest to sensationalize. The article would have been more effective without reference to Woodstock.
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TC
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Post by TC on May 17, 2020 22:41:55 GMT -5
I'll summarize this article : "This generation is a bunch of wimps because Woodstock happened a month before the 1968 Pandemic hit the US and they didn't shut it down." Negative. What this article describes is two completely different approaches to severe pandemics. In the 1969 pandemic, over 100,000 Americans died. Due to a much smaller population in 1969, that can be roughly scaled up to over 160,000 deaths. So this is in roughly the same ballpark as COVID-19. Yet life continued almost without interruption with little fanfare from the media and no attempt to politicize it. The 1968 pandemic killed 100,000 over 2 years. Covid-19 has killed 100,000 in two months and we've been locked inside for those two months preventing it from killing 1M. They aren't comparable.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on May 17, 2020 22:56:11 GMT -5
I'll summarize this article : "This generation is a bunch of wimps because Woodstock happened a month before the 1968 Pandemic hit the US and they didn't shut it down." Negative. What this article describes is two completely different approaches to severe pandemics. In the 1969 pandemic, over 100,000 Americans died. Due to a much smaller population in 1969, that can be roughly scaled up to over 160,000 deaths. So this is in roughly the same ballpark as COVID-19. Yet life continued almost without interruption with little fanfare from the media and no attempt to politicize it. Businesses were not shut down and the economy did not suffer. Logic and intuition would suggest that, were social distancing to have been used in 1969, fatalities would have been fewer though this cannot be proven; and, if it were reduced, by how much. On the other hand, it also demonstrates how the media treated the two pandemics, as well as how much Trump, with his daily press meetings, publicized the pandemic. It also demonstrates how the Democrats joined Trump in using it as political gaming. Today's media loves tragedies as it sell advertising, so it is in their self-interest to sensationalize. The article would have been more effective without reference to Woodstock. EasyEd, do you think the Trump administration has done a good job in handling the pandemic? Would the pandemic handbook prepared by scientists under the previous administration have helped with the current pandemic?
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on May 18, 2020 5:29:15 GMT -5
Negative. What this article describes is two completely different approaches to severe pandemics. In the 1969 pandemic, over 100,000 Americans died. Due to a much smaller population in 1969, that can be roughly scaled up to over 160,000 deaths. So this is in roughly the same ballpark as COVID-19. Yet life continued almost without interruption with little fanfare from the media and no attempt to politicize it. Businesses were not shut down and the economy did not suffer. Logic and intuition would suggest that, were social distancing to have been used in 1969, fatalities would have been fewer though this cannot be proven; and, if it were reduced, by how much. On the other hand, it also demonstrates how the media treated the two pandemics, as well as how much Trump, with his daily press meetings, publicized the pandemic. It also demonstrates how the Democrats joined Trump in using it as political gaming. Today's media loves tragedies as it sell advertising, so it is in their self-interest to sensationalize. The article would have been more effective without reference to Woodstock. EasyEd, do you think the Trump administration has done a good job in handling the pandemic? Would the pandemic handbook prepared by scientists under the previous administration have helped with the current pandemic? Come on, Eric Trump just said the public health crisis will magically disappear on November 3. This is all a Democratic hoax and media hype. Can't you see that?
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on May 18, 2020 8:25:38 GMT -5
This was forwarded to me by a former DOJ colleague. I would welcome any fact checking to determine if this is accurate or not. It is long but worth reading. I do not know who authored this:
I thought I would post a little history lesson for everyone on both sides of the political divide. I think it’s important that we understand the truth, especially come November when it’s time to vote. Forgive the length, but hey, we all have time on our hands to read, correct?
In December 2013, an 18-month-old boy in Guinea was bitten by a bat and died a brutal death a day later. After that, there were five more fatal cases. When Ebola spread out of the Guinea borders into neighboring Liberia and Sierra Leone in July 2014, President Obama activated the Emergency Operations Center at the Centers for Disease Control in Atlanta. The CDC immediately deployed CDC personnel to West Africa to coordinate a response that included vector tracing, testing, education, logistics, and communication.
Altogether, the CDC, under President Obama, trained 24,655 medical workers in West Africa, educating them on how to prevent and control the disease before a single case left Africa or reached the U.S.
Working with the U.N. and the World Health Organization President Obama ordered the re-routing of travelers heading to the U.S. through certain specific airports equipped to handle mass testing.
Back home in America, more than 6,500 people were trained through mock outbreaks and practice scenarios. That was done before a single case hit America.
Three months after President Obama activated this unprecedented response, on September 30, 2014, we detected our first case in the U.S.A. A man had traveled from West Africa to Dallas and somehow slipped through the testing protocol. He was immediately detected and isolated. He died a week later. Two nurses who tended to him contracted Ebola but later recovered. All the protocols had worked. It was contained. The Ebola epidemic could have easily become a pandemic, but thanks to the actions of our government under President Obama, it never did. Those THREE EBOLA CONFIRMED CASES were the ONLY cases of Ebola in the U.S.A. because Obama did what needed to be done THREE MONTHS PRIOR TO THE FIRST CASE.
Ebola is even more contagious than COVID-19. Had Obama not acted swiftly, millions of Americans would have died horrible, painful, deaths like something out of a horror movie (if you’ve never seen how Ebola kills, it’s horrific).
It is ironic because since President Obama acted decisively we forget about his actions since the disease never reached our shores.
Now the story of COVID-19 and Trump’s response that we know about thus far:
Before anyone even knew about the disease (even in China) Trump disbanded the pandemic response team that Obama had put in place. He cut funding to the CDC, and he cut our contribution to the World Health Organization (WHO). Trump fired Rear Admiral Timothy Ziemer, the person on the National Security Council in charge of stopping the spread of infectious diseases before they reach our country - a position created by the Obama administration.
When the outbreak started in China, Trump assumed it was China’s problem and sent no research, supplies or help of any kind. We were in a trade war, why should he help them? In January he received a briefing from our intelligence organizations that the outbreak was much worse than China was admitting and that it would definitely hit our country if something wasn’t done to prevent it. He ignored the report, not trusting our own intelligence.
When the disease spread to Europe, the World Health Organization offered a plethora of tests to the United States. Trump turned them down, saying private companies here would make the tests “better” if we needed them. However, he never ordered U.S. companies to make tests and they had no profit motive to do so on their own.
According to scientists at Yale and several public university medical schools, when they asked for permission to start working on our own testing protocol and potential treatments or vaccines, they were denied by Trump’s FDA.
When Trump knew about the first case in the United States he did nothing. It was just one case and the patient was isolated. When doctors and scientists started screaming in the media that this was a mistake, Trump claimed it was a “liberal hoax” conjured up to try to make him “look bad after impeachment failed.”
The next time Trump spoke of COVID-19, we had SIXTY-FOUR CONFIRMED CASES but Trump went before microphones and told the American public that we only had FIFTEEN cases “and pretty soon that number will be close to zero.” All while the disease was spreading, he took no action to get more tests. What Trump did was to stop flights from China from coming here. This was too late and accomplished nothing according to scientists and doctors. By then the disease was worldwide and was already spreading exponentially in the U.S. by Americans, not Chinese people as Trump would like you to believe.
As of the moment I am posting this, the morning of MAY 14, 2020, we have 1,364,061 COVID-19 CONFIRMED CASES and 82,246 COVID-19 DEATHS in the U.S.A. The actual number is undoubtedly more than triple that amount.
As if you needed one more reason to vote, here it is.
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on May 18, 2020 15:47:36 GMT -5
It seems quite unlikely this is true. But, if it is, it means he either has the virus or he’s taking this stuff to stubbornly prove some point which brings with it a high risk of ruining his heart. If he is taking this stuff, will be interesting to see how this all unfolds this summer.
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