SaxaCD
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,401
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Post by SaxaCD on Feb 20, 2020 0:25:57 GMT -5
PC ultra physical and refs let it go. Finally looking tired, forced shots and no stops on D. Fouls were 22-13 in our favor without counting the intentionals in the last 66 seconds. We’re not going to get much better than that. But we should have -- they weren't even defending with their feet, they were handy from the start. Say what you will about the glory days Hoyas and their rough play, but those guys defended brilliantly with their feet and then stripped with their hands once they had stood up their opponents. Tonight, Providence just elbow smashed away with impunity.
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kbones17
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,186
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Post by kbones17 on Feb 20, 2020 2:56:59 GMT -5
Man, this one hurts. Up six in the second half, and then just stopped hitting shots. Credit Providence, they played a good second half. We just looked gassed in all respects. Sure would have been nice to have Yurt out there for some minutes. Ugh.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
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Post by DanMcQ on Feb 20, 2020 7:28:57 GMT -5
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,351
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Post by calhoya on Feb 20, 2020 7:30:10 GMT -5
Really ragged play from the Hoyas at times, including returning to some bad habits hunting shots, but once again it is just wrong to focus on anything other than the effort and the heart of what remains of this team. Who left and why they left are issues for the very long off-season.
The team is easy to root for, but the outcome seems inevitable and it is unfortunate to have another game decided by injury and attrition. If ever there was a group that deserved a break it is this team.
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saxagael
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,894
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Post by saxagael on Feb 20, 2020 7:47:57 GMT -5
Patrick’s post game passer hit the nail on the head, (https://youtu.be/9gR9yWJoFTc) they just ran out of steam with all the minutes taking their toll.
He mentioned he played Tim over Wahab for his post defense. He also talked a little about the injuries to Mac (pain popped up), Yurtseven (he hasn’t been on the court since warm up last game), and Mosley how is dinged up in all sorts of was but still playing as best he can with the injuries “because he is a warrior”.
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rhw485
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 742
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Post by rhw485 on Feb 20, 2020 7:53:15 GMT -5
Tough loss. I think you could really see the benefit of 6 days rest for a short handed team vs. the turnaround for this game
• Providence is simply a much more physical team than Butler. I thought Q did a great job in the 1st half deterring shots and walling off Watson. In the 2nd half you saw someone playing worried about foul trouble and he was unable to hold his ground.
• I will absolutely concede the pick and roll defense has been better w both Wahab and Tim I. than Yurt7, although I still think we can implement coverages that hide some of Yurt7 limitations on that end as opposed to exposing them. There is hope for the future though on that end.
• I’ll have to re-watch but the biggest change I saw from Providence defense in 2nd half is they switched a lot more of our action 1-4. It stagnated the offense and took away easy passes. It forced a lot of one-on-ones and we couldn’t deliver
• The best way to attack would’ve been the 1-5 pick and rolls where they hard hedged, and we certainly called plenty of them. Somehow we didn’t do any of the things that teams have constantly done to us to beat the hard hedge. We couldn’t split, we couldn’t reject the screen and drive to the hoop, our big never slipped the screen, and we didn’t attack the hedge aggressively enough to draw fouls (we did that once I think). We just weren’t dynamic enough off the dribble to make them pay
• My new least favorite part of our defense is the “dig” down on the post from the strong side. It just leads to a catch and shoot 3. Post ups are a low % play and I’d rather force someone to make that shot. If we’re getting abused and have to double, I’d rather a full commit from the weak side that forces a cross court pass so we can recover.
• I wish Mac a speedy recovery….but man I simply cringed when he comes off the bench, and immediately takes an off-the-dribble pull up mid-range with 15 seconds left on the clock. Not sure how you could watch our offense operate for the four games on the bench and come in and do that right away. I’m not sure we see him again this season, there was enough positives to be hopeful but he still has room to grow w decision making
• Put me in the camp of the impact of the refs being a little overstated. We simply ignore the calls that benefit us. Was Mosely really fouled shooting that 3 in the 1st half? We’d go nuts if that was called on us. Provy was in the double bonus both halves and we lived at the free throw line in the 1st. Yes you can argue there should always be more fouls called but I thought they got called for more than their share of ticky-tack reach ins. The biggest call against us was probably Q’s 2nd where Watson basically short-stopped and fell over. The refs immediately came back and hit Watson on a hooking foul where it looked like Tim I. almost tackled him. They more or less balanced it out imo.
I’m still of the view that if we’re 8-10 and win our 1st round BE tourney game, we’re going to be right there on selection Sunday. That requires Xavier, DePaul, and then one of Creighton, Marquette, Nova. Xavier is a similarly physical team to Providence so that will be an uphill battle before we deal with the other more difficult games. Surprised Yurt7 was able to warm up for Butler but then not go today, hope there wasn’t a material setback
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 20, 2020 7:59:19 GMT -5
The worst part is that there is no chance to recharge. A few minutes from Mac thenect few games would have given the others a little rest but not expecting to see him for at least the next couple of games, maybe not until Kenner.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,480
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Post by DanMcQ on Feb 20, 2020 8:21:48 GMT -5
Tough loss. I think you could really see the benefit of 6 days rest for a short handed team vs. the turnaround for this game • Providence is simply a much more physical team than Butler. I thought Q did a great job in the 1st half deterring shots and walling off Watson. In the 2nd half you saw someone playing worried about foul trouble and he was unable to hold his ground. • I will absolutely concede the pick and roll defense has been better w both Wahab and Tim I. than Yurt7, although I still think we can implement coverages that hide some of Yurt7 limitations on that end as opposed to exposing them. There is hope for the future though on that end. • I’ll have to re-watch but the biggest change I saw from Providence defense in 2nd half is they switched a lot more of our action 1-4. It stagnated the offense and took away easy passes. It forced a lot of one-on-ones and we couldn’t deliver • The best way to attack would’ve been the 1-5 pick and rolls where they hard hedged, and we certainly called plenty of them. Somehow we didn’t do any of the things that teams have constantly done to us to beat the hard hedge. We couldn’t split, we couldn’t reject the screen and drive to the hoop, our big never slipped the screen, and we didn’t attack the hedge aggressively enough to draw fouls (we did that once I think). We just weren’t dynamic enough off the dribble to make them pay • My new least favorite part of our defense is the “dig” down on the post from the strong side. It just leads to a catch and shoot 3. Post ups are a low % play and I’d rather force someone to make that shot. If we’re getting abused and have to double, I’d rather a full commit from the weak side that forces a cross court pass so we can recover. • I wish Mac a speedy recovery….but man I simply cringed when he comes off the bench, and immediately takes an off-the-dribble pull up mid-range with 15 seconds left on the clock. Not sure how you could watch our offense operate for the four games on the bench and come in and do that right away. I’m not sure we see him again this season, there was enough positives to be hopeful but he still has room to grow w decision making • Put me in the camp of the impact of the refs being a little overstated. We simply ignore the calls that benefit us. Was Mosely really fouled shooting that 3 in the 1st half? We’d go nuts if that was called on us. Provy was in the double bonus both halves and we lived at the free throw line in the 1st. Yes you can argue there should always be more fouls called but I thought they got called for more than their share of ticky-tack reach ins. The biggest call against us was probably Q’s 2nd where Watson basically short-stopped and fell over. The refs immediately came back and hit Watson on a hooking foul where it looked like Tim I. almost tackled him. They more or less balanced it out imo. I’m still of the view that if we’re 8-10 and win our 1st round BE tourney game, we’re going to be right there on selection Sunday. That requires Xavier, DePaul, and then one of Creighton, Marquette, Nova. Xavier is a similarly physical team to Providence so that will be an uphill battle before we deal with the other more difficult games. Surprised Yurt7 was able to warm up for Butler but then not go today, hope there wasn’t a material setback Great analysis. I replayed the foul on the Mosely 3 a few times and it looked like he got him on the forearm distal to the elbow. Certainly not flagrant but looked like contact to me.
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hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,259
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Post by hoyaboya on Feb 20, 2020 8:55:23 GMT -5
No posts by hoyaboya re: Cooley? If you think beating last night’s Hoyas team was impressive, I don’t know what to tell you. Cooley has done less with more than any coach in the conference this season.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,259
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Post by prhoya on Feb 20, 2020 9:02:57 GMT -5
No posts by hoyaboya re: Cooley? If you think beating last night’s Hoyas team was impressive, I don’t know what to tell you. Cooley has done less with more than any coach in the conference this season. Cooley had a good strategy for both sides of the game. If you didn’t see that, I don’t know what to tell you. To be fair to you, it wasn’t an even hand, but you play the cards you’re dealt.
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friarj
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 104
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Post by friarj on Feb 20, 2020 9:14:15 GMT -5
Honestly PC defends a lot like the Hoyas used to. It leads to a very long and tiring 40 minutes. That is a compliment btw.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Feb 20, 2020 9:25:37 GMT -5
Honestly PC defends a lot like the Hoyas used to. It leads to a very long and tiring 40 minutes. That is a compliment btw. It leads to a lot of fouls too. They wore our guys down and nothing was coming easy. If I was PC, I would have put Watson back in as he was feasting on us inside early in the 2nd half. I think we win that game with two more bodies. Timmy played OK but the kid needs some development and he has been thrown into the furnace. Playing guys forty minutes just isn't sustainable.
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bostonfan
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,505
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Post by bostonfan on Feb 20, 2020 9:51:39 GMT -5
I was only able to watch the second half of the game last night and while I was impressed with the toughness and effort that the players showed last night. The thing that really jumped off the screen last night was the inability of the guys on the floor to create shots and opportunities on their own. Some people have taken shots at Mac saying he forces things and hunts for shots, and I don't really disagree with that, but his ability to make the defense react to his aggressiveness helps create opportunities for his teammates. It looked like Providence felt they could guard our guys last night straight up and did not need to give much help and it turned out they were right. Some of the guys were able to get shots, but they were all contested and ultimately missed.
The same concept applies to Yurt, who forces the other team to make adjustments every time he gets the ball. The guys that played last night played with great passion and effort but it really seemed like they needed another player who could create shots/opportunities to open up the floor.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,853
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Post by EtomicB on Feb 20, 2020 10:46:09 GMT -5
I was only able to watch the second half of the game last night and while I was impressed with the toughness and effort that the players showed last night. The thing that really jumped off the screen last night was the inability of the guys on the floor to create shots and opportunities on their own. Some people have taken shots at Mac saying he forces things and hunts for shots, and I don't really disagree with that, but his ability to make the defense react to his aggressiveness helps create opportunities for his teammates. It looked like Providence felt they could guard our guys last night straight up and did not need to give much help and it turned out they were right. Some of the guys were able to get shots, but they were all contested and ultimately missed. The same concept applies to Yurt, who forces the other team to make adjustments every time he gets the ball. The guys that played last night played with great passion and effort but it really seemed like they needed another player who could create shots/opportunities to open up the floor. Obviously, the team could have used Mac and Yurt(especially him) last night but I think to help carry the load more than anything else... Gtown scored on 6 straight possessions early in the 2nd half, Unfortunately they ran out of gas around the 10 minute mark...
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SDHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,325
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Post by SDHoya on Feb 20, 2020 11:06:20 GMT -5
The issue with the refs last night was not that foul calls were all going against us. It was that the refs allowed the type of game that was more beneficial to Providence than to Georgetown. If the refs had set the tone early that they would call it tight, the rest of the game is played very differently. Indeed, even when the refs did call fouls, Providence always seemed to make sure they got the most out of it--e.g. Kalif Young absolutely hammering Q to stop an easy flush during that 0-for stretch. That painful stretch in the second half where we could not buy a bucket (and also missed a ton of FTs) was undoubtedly influenced (if not entirely caused) by an undermanned group being worn down by Cooley's stated game plan.
That is not to put the loss entirely on the refs' shoulders. The Hoyas needed to find a way to power through and execute when it mattered--and last night they could not. Maybe a Mac or Yurt would have helped to create something--maybe not. In the end, Cooley chose a game plan to attack the Hoyas' biggest weakness (depth), his players executed it, the refs did not stop it, and they succeeded.
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friarj
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 104
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Post by friarj on Feb 20, 2020 11:55:24 GMT -5
The issue with the refs last night was not that foul calls were all going against us. It was that the refs allowed the type of game that was more beneficial to Providence than to Georgetown. If the refs had set the tone early that they would call it tight, the rest of the game is played very differently. Indeed, even when the refs did call fouls, Providence always seemed to make sure they got the most out of it--e.g. Kalif Young absolutely hammering Q to stop an easy flush during that 0-for stretch. That painful stretch in the second half where we could not buy a bucket (and also missed a ton of FTs) was undoubtedly influenced (if not entirely caused) by an undermanned group being worn down by Cooley's stated game plan. That is not to put the loss entirely on the refs' shoulders. The Hoyas needed to find a way to power through and execute when it mattered--and last night they could not. Maybe a Mac or Yurt would have helped to create something--maybe not. In the end, Cooley chose a game plan to attack the Hoyas' biggest weakness (depth), his players executed it, the refs did not stop it, and they succeeded. There is a lot right about this post, I can tell pretty quickly how the game is going to go for PC based upon how tight the refs are calling the game. We can't shoot a lick, we play hard every game, we defend hard almost every possession and we rebound very well. Add the fact that outside of Pipkens the team is full of strong bodied players and Cooley does not have much choice on how the games need to go.
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mdtd
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,567
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Post by mdtd on Feb 20, 2020 12:29:00 GMT -5
Tough loss. I think you could really see the benefit of 6 days rest for a short handed team vs. the turnaround for this game • Providence is simply a much more physical team than Butler. I thought Q did a great job in the 1st half deterring shots and walling off Watson. In the 2nd half you saw someone playing worried about foul trouble and he was unable to hold his ground. • I will absolutely concede the pick and roll defense has been better w both Wahab and Tim I. than Yurt7, although I still think we can implement coverages that hide some of Yurt7 limitations on that end as opposed to exposing them. There is hope for the future though on that end. • I’ll have to re-watch but the biggest change I saw from Providence defense in 2nd half is they switched a lot more of our action 1-4. It stagnated the offense and took away easy passes. It forced a lot of one-on-ones and we couldn’t deliver • The best way to attack would’ve been the 1-5 pick and rolls where they hard hedged, and we certainly called plenty of them. Somehow we didn’t do any of the things that teams have constantly done to us to beat the hard hedge. We couldn’t split, we couldn’t reject the screen and drive to the hoop, our big never slipped the screen, and we didn’t attack the hedge aggressively enough to draw fouls (we did that once I think). We just weren’t dynamic enough off the dribble to make them pay • My new least favorite part of our defense is the “dig” down on the post from the strong side. It just leads to a catch and shoot 3. Post ups are a low % play and I’d rather force someone to make that shot. If we’re getting abused and have to double, I’d rather a full commit from the weak side that forces a cross court pass so we can recover. • I wish Mac a speedy recovery….but man I simply cringed when he comes off the bench, and immediately takes an off-the-dribble pull up mid-range with 15 seconds left on the clock. Not sure how you could watch our offense operate for the four games on the bench and come in and do that right away. I’m not sure we see him again this season, there was enough positives to be hopeful but he still has room to grow w decision making • Put me in the camp of the impact of the refs being a little overstated. We simply ignore the calls that benefit us. Was Mosely really fouled shooting that 3 in the 1st half? We’d go nuts if that was called on us. Provy was in the double bonus both halves and we lived at the free throw line in the 1st. Yes you can argue there should always be more fouls called but I thought they got called for more than their share of ticky-tack reach ins. The biggest call against us was probably Q’s 2nd where Watson basically short-stopped and fell over. The refs immediately came back and hit Watson on a hooking foul where it looked like Tim I. almost tackled him. They more or less balanced it out imo. I’m still of the view that if we’re 8-10 and win our 1st round BE tourney game, we’re going to be right there on selection Sunday. That requires Xavier, DePaul, and then one of Creighton, Marquette, Nova. Xavier is a similarly physical team to Providence so that will be an uphill battle before we deal with the other more difficult games. Surprised Yurt7 was able to warm up for Butler but then not go today, hope there wasn’t a material setback To me, it looked like Kalif Young was icing every ball screen, especially the ones that Tim set, from what I remember. I think that really worked well considering the roster we hd for this one. Ewing will have to adjust that going forward. He's going to need to game plan for that, as I think Providence was very effective in that.
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rhw485
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 742
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Post by rhw485 on Feb 20, 2020 15:48:48 GMT -5
To me, it looked like Kalif Young was icing every ball screen, especially the ones that Tim set, from what I remember. I think that really worked well considering the roster we hd for this one. Ewing will have to adjust that going forward. He's going to need to game plan for that, as I think Providence was very effective in that. They definitely did some of that throughout the game, and you'd see Allen get Pipkins on his hip and drive to the lane and hit some runners. But I definitely remember more hard hedges that we didn't attack. And maybe that's part of the broader answer we've all talked about, mixing it up just enough to keep ballhandler guessing
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,197
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Post by hoyarooter on Feb 20, 2020 22:03:26 GMT -5
For about 25 minutes last night, I thought we might have another miracle in us, but then the wheels came off. I credit Providence for their hard, aggressive defense, but anyone who thought we could replicate a game where we made 2/3 of our threes and had only seven turnovers was dreaming. And to top it off, now Mosley may be dinged up? These kids definitely deserve better.
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