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Post by RockawayHoya on Jan 22, 2020 21:00:15 GMT -5
To finish above 500 in the Big East we have to go 8-3 the rest of the season. Right, but .500 on the nose almost surely would do it given the wins that would mean we have. It's too early to know for sure of course but I think 8-10 may well sneak us in. Yes, even that ain't easy, given what we've seen. But to call this season over is a bit much. 6-5 is certainly doable, no? Not with the way we've been killed on the boards the last 2 games. Yes, there is a size discrepancy. But there's also a hustle and effort discrepancy that's becoming tough to overcome. I would understand it if it was coming late in games and fatigue was a factor. But we are getting run out of the gym in the 1st half of every conference road game. Hard to attribute that to fatigue.
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Jan 22, 2020 21:11:51 GMT -5
It wasn't that Mac took all the shots early. It was that he took them without running any sort of offense to get them. He got the ball and went hunting for his shot not letting it come to him. This team, and pretty much most teams, is at their best when the ball is moving. The ball was stagnant at the beginning of the game. It was like bad offense led to more bad offense which lasted much of the game. This was a team loss but guys acting like Mac had a good game because he was the only one in double digits is laughable. He definitely didn't have a good game, but better than pretty much anyone else other than Wahab. Are you saying that the 2 shots Mac took and missed early resulted in the horrible offensive night for the team? I lean towards our staffing no answer to the size X put out there. Very little adjustments..except the first play of the second half where Mac drove, passed to Yurt and he weakly got his shot blocked. It seemed like the game was over after that. The one good idea seemed to work but..didn't. And nothing was different after that until we pressed under 5 min to go. Allen going out 2 minutes into the game is what was the biggest factor. WE didn't make a bucket for the next 8 and a half minutes after he went out. That was because of a lack of ball movement plus getting abused on defense led to guys trying to do too much. Apparently Ewing thought so as well. For whoever said Moseley was sleepwalking, him and Blair kind of gave us a chance in the 1st half. Getting the early charges and that second foul on Marshall should've been much bigger than it turned out to be. Yes he missed shots but I never felt like he was sleepwalking. AS I have come to realize though on this board if you don't score points it means you had a bad game no matter what else you did and as long as you score points you had a good game no matter how you got them or anything else you did.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 22, 2020 21:13:22 GMT -5
Couldn't make shots. Couldn't rebound. Couldn't win loose balls. Couldn't pass. Couldn't show up... Much props to X for being ready after a week off, both their coaches and players. I hope we can do the same and actually show up for the game. This was a full team loss. Yes. We will have six days until Butler at home. Will we be ready to start the game?
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Jan 22, 2020 21:17:00 GMT -5
This is the second game in a row that the opposing team’s best player had to sit for extended minutes in the first half because of foul trouble and the second game in a row that we actually saw the deficit increase during those minutes. This is the sign of an outclassed, outcoached team, pure and simple. Not being able to take advantage of a Howard-less Marquette and a Marshall-less Xavier is just downright unacceptable.
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IDenj
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Post by IDenj on Jan 22, 2020 21:18:53 GMT -5
It’s just become so predictable. Any team with even a remote inside presence and we are toast. I was no fan of jessie Govan to put it nicely, but yurtseven makes him look like Charles Oakley. I mean good lord does he just fold against the slightest bit of resistance. I’ll keep banging this drum all season - play Wahab! Yurtseven returning for another year would be another crushing blow to the program next year. I remember asking before the BE season started if we should be concerned about his play. Man did I get blasted for that.
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Jan 22, 2020 21:18:59 GMT -5
To finish above 500 in the Big East we have to go 8-3 the rest of the season. Right, but .500 on the nose almost surely would do it given the wins that would mean we have. It's too early to know for sure of course but I think 8-10 may well sneak us in. Yes, even that ain't easy, given what we've seen. But to call this season over is a bit much. 6-5 is certainly doable, no? If you look at the 6 most winnable games. at SJU, 2 Depaul, X home, Providence home, at Creighton. If we win all those I would say we have beaten 1 tourney team and Creighton would be far from safe with another loss to us. That is not a very impressive resume.
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joey0403p
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Post by joey0403p on Jan 22, 2020 21:19:38 GMT -5
Ugh. I was excited to watch this game. And now frustrated. Angry. Annoyed. Depressed.
WHY CANT WE BE GOOD?!?
Not worth dissecting. Don’t think anyone played well Allen - can’t get 2 fouls so quick Mac - need to share ball , and wth sitting so much? Yurt - can’t disappear Mosely, Blair, picker - same Wahab - need to squeeze ball (he probably had only “highlights”) George - be stronger and smarter Coach - did we purposely put allen kn their big man? Why did you sit Mac so long. Why didn’t you employ some really cool strategy that would have fixed all our deficiencies??
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 22, 2020 21:21:22 GMT -5
At this point, give me a grad transfer point guard and every other recruit needs to be 6'7 or taller for next year. Also, I need some of those recruits to possess some backside and biceps. There are five scholarships open. We need JuCos and grads that are tough and at least good perimeter shooters. We need a grad big, two grad/JuCo wings, a grad PG and the best available player regardless of position for the last scholarship. We already have two frosh coming in (well, as of now). This team needs to toughen up. Patrick Ewing's Hoyas are too soft for a third year in a row.
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Jan 22, 2020 21:22:38 GMT -5
It’s just become so predictable. Any team with even a remote inside presence and we are toast. I was no fan of jessie Govan to put it nicely, but yurtseven makes him look like Charles Oakley. I mean good lord does he just fold against the slightest bit of resistance. I’ll keep banging this drum all season - play Wahab! Yurtseven returning for another year would be another crushing blow to the program next year. I remember asking before the BE season started if we should be concerned about his play. Man did I get blasted for that. Same. I was told to relax and how it was just a blip. I've said for a while now that they key was if the other team had an inside presence and couldn't shoot. I guess tonight shows that really it's just if the other team has an inside presence. The defense is what it is. The offense goes as Yurt goes.
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kbones17
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Post by kbones17 on Jan 22, 2020 21:24:11 GMT -5
Brutal game. We just looked gassed and outcoached. Hard to see any light at the end of the tunnel at this point. Every team we play will feature someone having a “career high” game. We may steal a few more wins but not enough to right this sinking ship.
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rlo24
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Post by rlo24 on Jan 22, 2020 21:28:47 GMT -5
The last few times teams have posted up bigger players on Mac, it was short lived. Tonight, it happened once and Mac got a shot block. It seems our coaches simply match defense assasinment by height. Mac has a quick hop and may have been better than Allen early on the bigger man (where he got a few early fouls)?
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Jan 22, 2020 21:29:24 GMT -5
Tonight all the hyperbole and the program bashing will certainly emerge. It feels like tonight was more than just a loss. It was a sign of the program’s health and the results were not good.
I have to wonder had we not had the OSU/SMU stretch, what would the narrative be internally and nationally?
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Post by RockawayHoya on Jan 22, 2020 21:33:01 GMT -5
If there was ever a time to throw Q and Yurt out there together, tonight was it. Not too many perimeter threats for X and they weren't even really punishing us with the PnR. We could've used the size to reduce some of the offensive rebounds we were giving up.
Curiously enough, we switched to zone for one possession in the first half. Forced a couple ugly 3s but couldn't come away with the rebound and gave up a putback. Immediately gave up on it after that. I'm not saying it would work against most teams, but zoning with Q and Yurt in there and daring someone other than Tandy to beat us consistently from outside may have yielded a different result tonight.
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mdtd
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Post by mdtd on Jan 22, 2020 21:33:58 GMT -5
I think people are overreacting here. Xavier was just in a better spot and their defense was excellent tonight. They had much more energy and used that to their advantage. It was just a really bad spot game. Xavier had more energy and was able to rebrand after their slow start to Big East play. They had time to prepare for this game and just scored enough to win. Their offense still isn't good, but their defense was spectacular. Xavier just had more energy tonight. It wasn't effort per se, it was just fatigue. It would've been nice to see more player movement on offense early on, but that seemed to be fixed in the second half. Xavier just controlled the pace with their defense. The Hoyas would get close and either KyKy Tandy or Naji Marshall would hit a shot. It was their defense. Their offense just isn't great. They were also better on the boards which was frustrating, but I mean that was pretty expected with their energy advantage and Tyrique Jones. Yurtseven wasn't himself on the glass tonight and I think that was partly due to Xavier's energy advantage. It stinks, but I can't panic.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Jan 22, 2020 21:34:56 GMT -5
The last few times teams have posted up bigger players on Mac, it was short lived. Tonight, it happened once and Mac got a shot block. It seems our coaches simply match defense assasinment by height. Mac has a quick hop and may have been better than Allen early on the bigger man (where he got a few early fouls)? Yup he got him. A few possessions later, he tried to post up Mac again. Help defender (I think Blair) overhelped and gave up a big momentum 3 before half. It's those head scratching moves that cumulatively kill this team.
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rlo24
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Post by rlo24 on Jan 22, 2020 21:34:57 GMT -5
Tonight all the hyperbole and the program bashing will certainly emerge. It feels like tonight was more than just a loss. It was a sign of the program’s health and the results were not good. I have to wonder had we not had the OSU/SMU stretch, what would the narrative be internally and nationally? It would be to hire Steve Forbes of East Tennessee State who is a master of reloading each year, especially from JUCO. And who is a defensive coach..I saw a quote of his "I recruit offense, but coach defense". How different? Your point is well taken, I think internally there may have been discussions about a change had those games not gone the way they did
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mdtd
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Post by mdtd on Jan 22, 2020 21:41:35 GMT -5
Tonight all the hyperbole and the program bashing will certainly emerge. It feels like tonight was more than just a loss. It was a sign of the program’s health and the results were not good. I have to wonder had we not had the OSU/SMU stretch, what would the narrative be internally and nationally? It would be to hire Steve Forbes of East Tennessee State who is a master of reloading each year, especially from JUCO. And who is a defensive coach..I saw a quote of his "I recruit offense, but coach defense". How different? Your point is well taken, I think internally there may have been discussions about a change had those games not gone the way they did Again, I think today was just a bad spot. Xavier had all of the advantages and it just wasn't really hard to see. That being said, if Ewing wanted to leave for some reason, either Forbes or Wes Miller of UNCG (who would leave for UNC once Roy retires) would be excellent hires. But, there is no reason to talk about Ewing leaving and no reason for him to leave. He may need another assistant who can work with and set a really nice defense, like Luke Yaklich of Texas, who could really help Ewing. I think the big search should be for a nice defensive minded assistant this offseason.
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iowa80
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Post by iowa80 on Jan 22, 2020 21:46:23 GMT -5
Tonight all the hyperbole and the program bashing will certainly emerge. It feels like tonight was more than just a loss. It was a sign of the program’s health and the results were not good. I have to wonder had we not had the OSU/SMU stretch, what would the narrative be internally and nationally? It would be to hire Steve Forbes of East Tennessee State who is a master of reloading each year, especially from JUCO. And who is a defensive coach..I saw a quote of his "I recruit offense, but coach defense". How different? Your point is well taken, I think internally there may have been discussions about a change had those games not gone the way they did It's a bit beyond me how we can make sweeping assessments about the coaching/leadership in the wake of the four departures, unless one is willing to lay those departures on the staff. There is a depth/talent deficit on this team and the chickens are going to come home to roost more often than not. Whatever "vision" existed in October for the team--some of which was on display at MSG in November-- became irrelevant within a couple of days last year.
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rlo24
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Post by rlo24 on Jan 22, 2020 21:46:25 GMT -5
It would be to hire Steve Forbes of East Tennessee State who is a master of reloading each year, especially from JUCO. And who is a defensive coach..I saw a quote of his "I recruit offense, but coach defense". How different? Your point is well taken, I think internally there may have been discussions about a change had those games not gone the way they did Again, I think today was just a bad spot. Xavier had all of the advantages and it just wasn't really hard to see. That being said, if Ewing wanted to leave for some reason, either Forbes or Wes Miller of UNCG (who would leave for UNC once Roy retires) would be excellent hires. But, there is no reason to talk about Ewing leaving and no reason for him to leave. He may need another assistant who can work with and set a really nice defense, like Luke Yaklich of Texas, who could really help Ewing. I think the big search should be for a nice defensive minded assistant this offseason. Agreed, especially with how the team has responded overall this year. In response to the original post, I think the story may have been different if the team hadn't won the games mentioned.
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Jan 22, 2020 21:57:25 GMT -5
I’m not calling for a change or overreacting to one result. I don’t think that’s fair right now. A win or loss tonight doesn’t change the big picture.
My point was tonight basically felt like a reality check of the talent deficit and health of the program. We’ve been running on fumes and maybe it’s catching up to us.
The additional point was just wondering out loud about the goodwill that came as a result of the winning streak post departures. Had we we lost those road games and are sitting at 10-10 what is the narrative? Would it be less “we are getting results with a limited roster” and more “the program is in a hole during Year 3 of the Ewing era”?
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