DallasHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,628
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Post by DallasHoya on Jan 23, 2020 15:19:34 GMT -5
I don't even know where to begin with this. Mac is one more conference game performance from dipping below 40%. He is shooting 22% in conference and still hoisting over 5 game. He is by definition a volume scorer which means without volume his scoring doesn't materialize. Pickett isn't a volume scorer but is hitting at a similar percentage in conference this year so why he is getting bashed while you guys are defending Mac is beyond me. They are giving us the same sub par performance in conference on the offensive end. One guy is above average on defense and the other isn't. We need both of them to step it up on the offensive side of the ball. This isn't complicated. Both of them are inefficient, but Pickett is more inefficient. It's not just about shooting percentage. Other things matter, like how often you get to the line (McClung shoots a lot more free throws than Pickett), and Turnovers (McClung's turnover rate is lower than Pickett's). In other words, ina theoretical world where the team's dependence was solely on Pickett or McClung, the McClung version would score more points. But, neither would be efficient. I wasn't commenting on McClung in my post. And I would never call Pickett above average on defense - although for this team I guess I would.
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hoyainla
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Suspended
Posts: 4,719
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Post by hoyainla on Jan 23, 2020 17:54:24 GMT -5
I just want to state for the record that HOYAPLAYA is in fact not me but I will sit back and keep eating this popcorn.
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Post by cgallstar02 on Jan 23, 2020 19:47:07 GMT -5
This isn't complicated. Both of them are inefficient, but Pickett is more inefficient. It's not just about shooting percentage. Other things matter, like how often you get to the line (McClung shoots a lot more free throws than Pickett), and Turnovers (McClung's turnover rate is lower than Pickett's). In other words, ina theoretical world where the team's dependence was solely on Pickett or McClung, the McClung version would score more points. But, neither would be efficient. I won't argue that but in that same theoretical world, our defense would be worse than it already is and that is pretty bad. Really? Just out of curiosity, why didn't the defense pick up against Providence in the game Mac sat out? Or what about last year in the 3 conference games Mac sat? In those 3 games they gave up 76, 97, and 81 points to Butler, St Johns, and Xavier. The St Johns game went to OT, so if you wanna use the regulation score it was 85. In the 3 games Mac played against those same teams last year they scored 73, 78, and 73. In other words, in all 3 games the opponent scored less when Mac played vs when he didn't. Most would agree that Mac's defense this season has at the very least slightly improved from last season, and the team had considerably more depth last season as well. Yet even with freshman version of Mac and multiple reserve guards to replace him, the defense not only did not improve but was actually worse in every game without him. Am I saying this means Mac is some great or even good defender? No. But the whole narrative that he's some atrocious defender and the worst on the team is vastly blown out of proportion, and the results of games he plays vs when he doesn't certainly prove that. Also, I see the source of your frustration with Mac is apparently that posters gave him all the credit in the game thread and bashed everyone else. I just finished reading through and didn't really see much of that. Not a single poster said Mac had a good game. Nor should they... he didn't. One guy commended his heart and hustle, and loved the play where he ripped the ball away and got fouled. What is wrong with that? A few folks complained about his shot selection and over aggressiveness on offense, while a few defended him with the fact that his teammates were terrible on offense so Mac forcing tough shots was not really the worst idea. Personally, I don't think it mattered much either way. Xavier is not very skilled on offense, but they have a lot of size and and a lot athleticism. Our bigger guys are not very athletic, and our athletic guys are not very big. Yurt was worthless down low, and the few times we actually had good ball movement that lead to an open 3, we missed it virtually every time. Mac playing hero ball or being a facilitator doesn't really change the outcome of this one. Aside from that, Wahab got the most credit for playing well while Yurt took the most heat for playing poorly. Again, both deservedly so IMO. Wahab played a great game and Yurt was awful. The bottom line is the role players are simply not good enough to cover for Yurt having a bad game in the Big East. Sure it might happen from time to time, like in the St Johns game, but more often than not Yurt has to at least be decent for us to have a chance. Arguing about who sucks more between Mac and Pickett seems a bit silly. If you watch a Georgetown game and are surprised that Mac is forcing some bad shots or that Pickett is making a boneheaded turnover or not living up to the potential that his crazy length suggests, then I would ask what games have you been watching the last few years? Yurt is the one that needs to be held accountable. He was supposed to be a future 1st round pick and the star of the the team even before all the transfers. He's now had 2 good games in 7 tries in the Big East. The rest of the guys for the most part are doing their job. If Yurt plays a good game and we lose, by all means point fingers at the other 4 starters. But when your star player disappears game after game, you're now asking other guys to shoulder too much of the load.
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smokeyjack
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,295
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Post by smokeyjack on Jan 23, 2020 20:32:47 GMT -5
Pickett is trying to create, the problem is that he can’t. Every time the ball touches the floor it is almost a guaranteed air ball, brick, turnover or jump ball. He can occasionally have a strong drive and finish, but that’s maybe 10-20% of the time. At least when McClung doesn’t convert it can be a close shot with a possible rebound or put back, or he’ll get his own miss. Speaking of players getting their own misses, I wish Blair would cut out his ridiculous extended 2 second follow through and run after some of his own misses. Can’t change the trajectory after it leaves your hand and he’s got a better idea of where it’s going to end up than anyone else Again, let's not facts get in the way of our perceptions. TO's in Conference play: Pickett: 1.7 per game in 34 minutes averaged per contest McClung: 2.0 per game in 33 minutes averaged per contest You literally just made the opposite point you were going for. Pickett handles the ball about 1/5 as much as Mac, so if he turns it over almost as much, he turns it over at a MUCH higher rate.
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OldHoyafan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,387
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Post by OldHoyafan on Jan 23, 2020 21:30:29 GMT -5
Seems like some are forgetting that everyone agreed that after the transfers the team had zero margin for error. Last night that margin was quickly exceeded by Allen's two quick fouls leading to limited early playing time, and Yurtseven's terrible first half shooting. This team just can't survive when stuff like that goes wrong. Other teams sub-out those players and bring in comparable or at least experienced replacements. The Hoyas either can't effectively sub or have to bring in someone who can't play the same role and thus changes the whole scheme. In these situations if the opponent is playing well it becomes nearly impossible to make up the deficit caused by the exceeded margin. This team lives on a knife's edge and nothing that the coaches can do will change that this season. If everyone plays well they can beat any conference opponent. If there are any bad performances a loss is likely. This about sums up my feelings on the team. Very little margin for error either in the form of fouls to one starting five or subpar play by either Yurt7 or Mac. This is not a year where they will make a lot of noise in the tourney, but I still think a !5-16 game win season plus one win in BE gets them into tourney. Ok State, SMU and Texas Wins will help a lot.
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 23, 2020 21:39:58 GMT -5
I just want to state for the record that HOYAPLAYA is in fact not me but I will sit back and keep eating this popcorn. OK, HOYAPLAYAinLA!
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vv83
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,323
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Post by vv83 on Jan 23, 2020 22:22:16 GMT -5
Seems like some are forgetting that everyone agreed that after the transfers the team had zero margin for error. Last night that margin was quickly exceeded by Allen's two quick fouls leading to limited early playing time, and Yurtseven's terrible first half shooting. This team just can't survive when stuff like that goes wrong. Other teams sub-out those players and bring in comparable or at least experienced replacements. The Hoyas either can't effectively sub or have to bring in someone who can't play the same role and thus changes the whole scheme. In these situations if the opponent is playing well it becomes nearly impossible to make up the deficit caused by the exceeded margin. This team lives on a knife's edge and nothing that the coaches can do will change that this season. If everyone plays well they can beat any conference opponent. If there are any bad performances a loss is likely. This about sums up my feelings on the team. Very little margin for error either in the form of fouls to one starting five or subpar play by either Yurt7 or Mac. This is not a year where they will make a lot of noise in the tourney, but I still think a !5-16 game win season plus one win in BE gets them into tourney. Ok State, SMU and Texas Wins will help a lot. Those wins won't help all that much. None of those teams have had good seasons. Oklahoma State was 0-7 in conference play at the start of the week - I'm not sure if they won or lost this week. Texas has fallen apart. Their Kenpom ratings are: 69, 73, 81. Not awful, but not tremendously helpful. Creighton is really our only truly strong win so far this season If we can get on a little run and beat teams like Butler, Marquette, and Creighton in our remaining games with them - we might have a shot at the tournament. But given that we probably won't beat Villanova/Seton Hall in the rematches; and that we'll probably lose a few more games to the bottom half of the league - it is a tough road to the tournament at this point. But it is hard to get too upset about it. This team has limited talent and needs all the pieces to be working to win conference games. Honestly, I am surprised we have played as well as we have since the transfers. If we can just continue to play hard and pull out most of our home games, I think that is about the most we could expect given the circumstances of this weird, disappointing season. Any road win is going to be a bit of a surprise, given how badly we have struggled in conference road games so far. My guess - we end up with maybe 5 or 6 conference wins. More than that and I think we will have overperfored our talent level.
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mdtd
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,567
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Post by mdtd on Jan 23, 2020 23:38:27 GMT -5
This about sums up my feelings on the team. Very little margin for error either in the form of fouls to one starting five or subpar play by either Yurt7 or Mac. This is not a year where they will make a lot of noise in the tourney, but I still think a !5-16 game win season plus one win in BE gets them into tourney. Ok State, SMU and Texas Wins will help a lot. Those wins won't help all that much. None of those teams have had good seasons. Oklahoma State was 0-7 in conference play at the start of the week - I'm not sure if they won or lost this week. Texas has fallen apart. Their Kenpom ratings are: 69, 73, 81. Not awful, but not tremendously helpful. Creighton is really our only truly strong win so far this season If we can get on a little run and beat teams like Butler, Marquette, and Creighton in our remaining games with them - we might have a shot at the tournament. But given that we probably won't beat Villanova/Seton Hall in the rematches; and that we'll probably lose a few more games to the bottom half of the league - it is a tough road to the tournament at this point. But it is hard to get too upset about it. This team has limited talent and needs all the pieces to be working to win conference games. Honestly, I am surprised we have played as well as we have since the transfers. If we can just continue to play hard and pull out most of our home games, I think that is about the most we could expect given the circumstances of this weird, disappointing season. Any road win is going to be a bit of a surprise, given how badly we have struggled in conference road games so far. My guess - we end up with maybe 5 or 6 conference wins. More than that and I think we will have overperfored our talent level. Oklahoma State is actually 0-6, so they are significantly better than you said they were. All jokes aside, I think these teams also have a lot of room to grow. Smart for the rest of the year is 100% coaching for his job. If Texas doesn't take a significant jump, he will not be retained as head coach. SMU is #70 in the NET so as of now they are q1, but Texas and Oklahoma State are q2 wins, but in the higher tier of q2 if that means anything. With how much season their is left and every road game being a q1 win, there is enough room to get going and get a quality win. The next three are going to be q1 wins, with the first and third potentially being higher tier q1 wins which could really help this team. The road to the tournament isn't as dead as we all would think, since aside from the Big 12 and Big Ten, no other conference is any good. The ACC is going to be lucky to get 4 teams in and they usually get much more. The A-10 who usually steps up in years like this has a legit Dayton team and some bubble teams around them. The Pac-12 has up and down teams who should be better but who even knows, they have under performed. There is a ton of room and a ton of time. Take 2 of the next three and the Hoyas are back in tournament contention. This next game is a much better spot, so it should help us determine how this season could go. Just the defense needs to take any sort of step up. Three point defense can't possibly get any worse, right?
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HOYAPLAYA
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
IT'S TIME FOR A RUNNNNNNN!!!!!!
Posts: 1,329
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Post by HOYAPLAYA on Jan 24, 2020 0:25:53 GMT -5
I won't argue that but in that same theoretical world, our defense would be worse than it already is and that is pretty bad. Really? Just out of curiosity, why didn't the defense pick up against Providence in the game Mac sat out? Or what about last year in the 3 conference games Mac sat? In those 3 games they gave up 76, 97, and 81 points to Butler, St Johns, and Xavier. The St Johns game went to OT, so if you wanna use the regulation score it was 85. In the 3 games Mac played against those same teams last year they scored 73, 78, and 73. In other words, in all 3 games the opponent scored less when Mac played vs when he didn't. Most would agree that Mac's defense this season has at the very least slightly improved from last season, and the team had considerably more depth last season as well. Yet even with freshman version of Mac and multiple reserve guards to replace him, the defense not only did not improve but was actually worse in every game without him. Am I saying this means Mac is some great or even good defender? No. But the whole narrative that he's some atrocious defender and the worst on the team is vastly blown out of proportion, and the results of games he plays vs when he doesn't certainly prove that. Also, I see the source of your frustration with Mac is apparently that posters gave him all the credit in the game thread and bashed everyone else. I just finished reading through and didn't really see much of that. Not a single poster said Mac had a good game. Nor should they... he didn't. One guy commended his heart and hustle, and loved the play where he ripped the ball away and got fouled. What is wrong with that? A few folks complained about his shot selection and over aggressiveness on offense, while a few defended him with the fact that his teammates were terrible on offense so Mac forcing tough shots was not really the worst idea. Personally, I don't think it mattered much either way. Xavier is not very skilled on offense, but they have a lot of size and and a lot athleticism. Our bigger guys are not very athletic, and our athletic guys are not very big. Yurt was worthless down low, and the few times we actually had good ball movement that lead to an open 3, we missed it virtually every time. Mac playing hero ball or being a facilitator doesn't really change the outcome of this one. Aside from that, Wahab got the most credit for playing well while Yurt took the most heat for playing poorly. Again, both deservedly so IMO. Wahab played a great game and Yurt was awful. The bottom line is the role players are simply not good enough to cover for Yurt having a bad game in the Big East. Sure it might happen from time to time, like in the St Johns game, but more often than not Yurt has to at least be decent for us to have a chance. Arguing about who sucks more between Mac and Pickett seems a bit silly. If you watch a Georgetown game and are surprised that Mac is forcing some bad shots or that Pickett is making a boneheaded turnover or not living up to the potential that his crazy length suggests, then I would ask what games have you been watching the last few years? Yurt is the one that needs to be held accountable. He was supposed to be a future 1st round pick and the star of the the team even before all the transfers. He's now had 2 good games in 7 tries in the Big East. The rest of the guys for the most part are doing their job. If Yurt plays a good game and we lose, by all means point fingers at the other 4 starters. But when your star player disappears game after game, you're now asking other guys to shoulder too much of the load. My point is that they all need to be held accountable as not a single player (outside of maybe Mosely) is performing up to expected standard. You can't just blame Yurt subpar performance for everybody else.
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