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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 12, 2020 23:13:48 GMT -5
I’m curious, what have you seen in these three years that makes you think the coaching staff is any good? My one concern is that the staff brought in a number of players that were involved in off court incidents and ended up transfering, raising a potential concern about ability to fully evaluate all aspects of recruits. Without those issues this team would have improved over last season, and more significantly over the program Ewing inherited. But there are 2 months left in the season so we don't even know where this group ends up, much less what next year would look like. So a "fan" ready to give up was never really on board this season. And the fact that you never posted once after a solid win against St. John's just corroborates that. Then again you already knew that.
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,650
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 13, 2020 7:22:03 GMT -5
Transfers and expulsions typically involve a single recruit, our situation was truly unfortunate. A group event that triggered a domino effect. We may not make the NCAAs for the foreseeable future as a result.
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dchoya72
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,489
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Post by dchoya72 on Jan 13, 2020 9:31:11 GMT -5
The mass exodus was truly unfortunate in many levels. The domino effect was a great term. The dark cloud cloud cast in those athletes would be a hard burden/stigma to deal with. Its possible that it, the stigma, could have been overcome but probably not! Several have landed well. Not sure about Alexander and Gardner. They seem to be collateral damage. Don't know how any amount of character research would have revealed and mitigated this circumstance. It is truly unfortunate for everyone. I had very high hopes for our squad! We are in a tough position but making the most of what we have. I am impressed for the most part with the fighting nature of the team, they are giving their all. My 2 cents!
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 13, 2020 13:45:53 GMT -5
Obviously I don't have any idea whether there was anything that could have foreseen any possibility of these issues, it just feels like we can't give the coach and staff a free pass when a series of events lead to 4 transfers in 10 days.
I think Patrick definitely had the pieces in place to make a strong chance for a bid this season (and I am not suggesting there is no chance left of course), although the early inconsistency was concerning.
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,219
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Post by hoya9797 on Jan 13, 2020 14:06:51 GMT -5
I’m curious, what have you seen in these three years that makes you think the coaching staff is any good? My one concern is that the staff brought in a number of players that were involved in off court incidents and ended up transfering, raising a potential concern about ability to fully evaluate all aspects of recruits. Without those issues this team would have improved over last season, and more significantly over the program Ewing inherited. But there are 2 months left in the season so we don't even know where this group ends up, much less what next year would look like. So a "fan" ready to give up was never really on board this season. And the fact that you never posted once after a solid win against St. John's just corroborates that. Then again you already knew that. Would they have improved? Maybe a little but I'm not so sure. The same issues that have existed since the first day of this regime - terrible defense, endless turnovers, and a disorganized offense - were there when we had teh full team. At some point, the lack of improvement in these areas, regardless of the makeup of the team, have to come back on the coaches. For me, that point has long passed and I'm convinced this staff is not going to get it done.
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Post by HometownHoya on Jan 13, 2020 15:08:04 GMT -5
My one concern is that the staff brought in a number of players that were involved in off court incidents and ended up transfering, raising a potential concern about ability to fully evaluate all aspects of recruits. Without those issues this team would have improved over last season, and more significantly over the program Ewing inherited. But there are 2 months left in the season so we don't even know where this group ends up, much less what next year would look like. So a "fan" ready to give up was never really on board this season. And the fact that you never posted once after a solid win against St. John's just corroborates that. Then again you already knew that. Would they have improved? Maybe a little but I'm not so sure. The same issues that have existed since the first day of this regime - terrible defense, endless turnovers, and a disorganized offense - were there when we had teh full team. At some point, the lack of improvement in these areas, regardless of the makeup of the team, have to come back on the coaches. For me, that point has long passed and I'm convinced this staff is not going to get it done. A little glass empty are we? According to KenPom our AdjD is 96.4 which is good for 96th in the nation. Not shut down D but respectable, definitely not "terrible". Our AdjO is 110.2, good for 21st in the nation (pretty good. If that's disorganized then I'm giddy for games when it all comes together. Our TO per game is at 14.6. While not amazing since that puts us at 260th nationally, dropping only 1 TO per game gets us down to 160...so I'd say average...not "endless". Maybe the O seems disorganized because it's a high movement offense? I'm not sure what you are watching but I see plenty of sets being run. Does the D have weaknesses? Yes but it can show up and shut down possessions, even against a team that is hot from 3 like Nova was (last play of the half for example). Do we turn over the ball more then average? Yes but we are there and some games will be better or worse. Keep in mind this is the college game, things will look sloppy at times. Majority of teams get sloppy and have let downs, even the ranked ones. TBH only Gonzaga has not had a letdown this year. If you're not ok with that, then maybe go watch the NBA.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 13, 2020 16:48:23 GMT -5
My one concern is that the staff brought in a number of players that were involved in off court incidents and ended up transfering, raising a potential concern about ability to fully evaluate all aspects of recruits. Without those issues this team would have improved over last season, and more significantly over the program Ewing inherited. But there are 2 months left in the season so we don't even know where this group ends up, much less what next year would look like. So a "fan" ready to give up was never really on board this season. And the fact that you never posted once after a solid win against St. John's just corroborates that. Then again you already knew that. Would they have improved? Maybe a little but I'm not so sure. The same issues that have existed since the first day of this regime - terrible defense, endless turnovers, and a disorganized offense - were there when we had teh full team. At some point, the lack of improvement in these areas, regardless of the makeup of the team, have to come back on the coaches. For me, that point has long passed and I'm convinced this staff is not going to get it done. Defense has certainly been a consistent issue, which would have been the last issue I expected from a Ewing-coached team. I think the offense has generally been more organized, and the turnovers less frustrating, at least since the transfers. You may be right in the end, but giving up halfway through a season is puzzling. Win the next 2 home games and we are right back in the NCAA conversation. And if we deteriorate there will be plenty of time for evaluation of the success or failure of the coach and the program in April.
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,219
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Post by hoya9797 on Jan 13, 2020 17:08:35 GMT -5
Hey, I hope I'm wrong and Ewing turns into a great coach for us. But, we've got a decent sample size to work with and it doesn't look good.
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madgesiq92
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,426
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Post by madgesiq92 on Jan 13, 2020 17:25:01 GMT -5
Would they have improved? Maybe a little but I'm not so sure. The same issues that have existed since the first day of this regime - terrible defense, endless turnovers, and a disorganized offense - were there when we had teh full team. At some point, the lack of improvement in these areas, regardless of the makeup of the team, have to come back on the coaches. For me, that point has long passed and I'm convinced this staff is not going to get it done. I think the offense has generally been more organized, and the turnovers less frustrating, at least since the transfers. This is a complicated issue. I think most would agree that overall (throw out the Providence game without Mac), the team is playing much better basketball since the transfers. We are finally seeing what a Patrick Ewing coached team would look like offensively with a group that buys in, and its good basketball. The Achilles heel seems to be the depth of the team--however when we had depth, we were playing bad basketball. So its hard to say that if we only had the depth we would be in much better shape, because we were awful with the depth---selfish, bad substitution patterns, etc. And its impossible to say--if only we had some of the depth, because from everything I understand, Akinjo was the leader of the Group of Four who left--and it was a pretty close knit group. As a result, at the end of the year we are going to have another complete rebuild on our hands. Even if we can all agree that Patrick Ewing is the right coach for the rebuild, are their other changes to be made on the coaching staff that surrounds Ewing can make this rebuild more successful than his first? It would seem to be the definition of insanity to not make any structural or personnel changes to the program or staff following this debacle--I can't imagine another program that would stand pat--no pun intended.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 15,232
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Post by EtomicB on Jan 13, 2020 17:45:44 GMT -5
I think the offense has generally been more organized, and the turnovers less frustrating, at least since the transfers. This is a complicated issue. I think most would agree that overall (throw out the Providence game without Mac), the team is playing much better basketball since the transfers. We are finally seeing what a Patrick Ewing coached team would look like offensively with a group that buys in, and its good basketball. The Achilles heel seems to be the depth of the team--however when we had depth, we were playing bad basketball. So its hard to say that if we only had the depth we would be in much better shape, because we were awful with the depth---selfish, bad substitution patterns, etc. And its impossible to say--if only we had some of the depth, because from everything I understand, Akinjo was the leader of the Group of Four who left--and it was a pretty close knit group. As a result, at the end of the year we are going to have another complete rebuild on our hands. Even if we can all agree that Patrick Ewing is the right coach for the rebuild, are their other changes to be made on the coaching staff that surrounds Ewing can make this rebuild more successful than his first? It would seem to be the definition of insanity to not make any structural or personnel changes to the program or staff following this debacle--I can't imagine another program that would stand pat--no pun intended. Then the question has to be how can PE get players to "buy-in" without the guaranteed playing time a depleted roster provides?
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 14, 2020 9:32:42 GMT -5
I think the offense has generally been more organized, and the turnovers less frustrating, at least since the transfers. This is a complicated issue. I think most would agree that overall (throw out the Providence game without Mac), the team is playing much better basketball since the transfers. We are finally seeing what a Patrick Ewing coached team would look like offensively with a group that buys in, and its good basketball. The Achilles heel seems to be the depth of the team--however when we had depth, we were playing bad basketball. So its hard to say that if we only had the depth we would be in much better shape, because we were awful with the depth---selfish, bad substitution patterns, etc. And its impossible to say--if only we had some of the depth, because from everything I understand, Akinjo was the leader of the Group of Four who left--and it was a pretty close knit group. As a result, at the end of the year we are going to have another complete rebuild on our hands. Even if we can all agree that Patrick Ewing is the right coach for the rebuild, are their other changes to be made on the coaching staff that surrounds Ewing can make this rebuild more successful than his first? It would seem to be the definition of insanity to not make any structural or personnel changes to the program or staff following this debacle--I can't imagine another program that would stand pat--no pun intended. The problem wasn’t depth. On the court It was essentially one guy who had keys to the car and was driving the car on the wrong way on the other side of the road. But that should have been obvious even past year when the guy was disrespecting a college basketball legend and NBA great by what he was doing in the team huddles during timeouts. Depth was fine when Alexander and Myron we’re still here.
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daveg023
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,364
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Post by daveg023 on Jan 15, 2020 21:24:05 GMT -5
Texas bearing up on OK state on the road. Good for our Texas win but that was neutral court where the OK state was on the road. They will be 9-7 after tonight and 0-4 in conference. That win will not even be a Q2 win at this point. Shame.
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Post by BeantownHoya on Jan 16, 2020 9:19:49 GMT -5
Minimal NET jump after Creighton win. 53 to 49...
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 16, 2020 9:35:00 GMT -5
A move is a move- we will be mid-forties if we can beat Wojojojojojo and company...
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Post by aleutianhoya on Jan 16, 2020 10:06:12 GMT -5
Minimal NET jump after Creighton win. 53 to 49... I'll continue to pound this one home: It's not so much what our rating is, it's the ratings of the teams we've beaten (and lost to). This is a Tier-1 win. Our first (based on present rankings). Right now, it's our single best win of the year, according to these stupid metrics. SMU and OK St. both were once Tier 1....but they're just outside right now. Texas is also just outside Tier 1 right now. Creighton is inside but right on the edge....so is Marquette. I recognize the stupidity of the system. Should it really matter if SMU and OK State end up 73 and 74 in NET vs 77 and 78? Or if Creighton ends up 29 vs 31? But it does matter. Maybe enormously if you get lucky or unlucky and they all fall one way or the other.
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