jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Dec 26, 2019 17:16:51 GMT -5
I'm just saying I remember a heck of a lot of negative people even during the good JT3 years. Even as we ran to the Final 4 my sophomore year and won a second straight BE regular season title in 2008 there were a heck of a lot of negative nellies on the board. I think they have left. Why continue to invest in a program with no hope? |
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Post by KenteKrazies on Dec 26, 2019 17:40:15 GMT -5
I'm just saying I remember a heck of a lot of negative people even during the good JT3 years. Even as we ran to the Final 4 my sophomore year and won a second straight BE regular season title in 2008 there were a heck of a lot of negative nellies on the board. I think they have left. Why continue to invest in a program with no hope? Saxa is coming back |
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Dec 26, 2019 20:32:56 GMT -5
It's all about expectations in my view, I know less than zero about Gtown soccer but according to Wikipedia the team has made the tourney many times over the last decade. The team has also won a lot of BE titles over that time as well so it's easy to see why there's a lot of positivity amongst the fans of the team... Over this same time frame we've seen Gtown basketball become a program expected to flame out in spectacular ways over the past decade. Add in a less than modern administration and it's easy to see see why folks are much more guarded with their expectations about the basketball program... I definitely agree that it's all about expectations... I just think that a lot of Georgetown fans have outsized expectations, given all the factors at play. Even among the schools who are committed to not out-and-out cheating through under-the-table pay-for-play, the majority are willing to engage in some combination of extra-privileged treatment (yeah, sure, that's definitely not an "athlete" dorm because there's some non-athletes thrown in there), academic fraud, running interference with the student conduct and criminal justice systems (*ahem*), the promise of sweetheart hookups post-graduation, etc. etc. It's impossible to accurately assess the level or impact of such things, of course, whether in isolation or as compared to other schools. But I think a lot of people are in denial about just how big of a role it plays, in large part because it calls into question the legitimacy... or at least tastefulness... of the whole enterprise. I don't think any of this makes success impossible at a place like Georgetown, but it does increase the degree of difficulty. Can a first-time head coach like Patrick Ewing manage it? Perhaps. But it's definitely not a sure bet, even with all of the advantages he does have. College soccer is a very different animal, of course. |
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Dec 26, 2019 20:49:08 GMT -5
The 2020's are a big, big decade for this program--Georgetown squandered its seat as the conference flagship at the 2013 realignment and isn't even in the national conversation in 2019. UConn arrives next season to reclaim its front seat at the Big East table and the other schools are only getting better. A program can be a "who's who" nationally, a "who's that", or sometimes a "who cares". What will people say about the Hoyas in 2029? UConn??? Call me when they do something - and I mean in the post-Original Big East era, though we all know who Jim Calhoun is - without engaging in such rampant cheating that even the feckless NCAA had to step in. |
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Dec 26, 2019 20:58:16 GMT -5
UConn??? Call me when they do something - and I mean in the post-Original Big East era, though we all know who Jim Calhoun is - without engaging in such rampant cheating that even the feckless NCAA had to step in. You mean besides winning an NCAA championship? |
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Dec 26, 2019 21:01:40 GMT -5
You mean besides winning an NCAA championship? Did... did we all just forget about the whole "Kevin Ollie fired for cause" thing? |
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Dec 26, 2019 22:03:17 GMT -5
Latest ESPN bracketology has 8 Big East teams in the tourney.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 26, 2019 22:13:22 GMT -5
It's all about expectations in my view, I know less than zero about Gtown soccer but according to Wikipedia the team has made the tourney many times over the last decade. The team has also won a lot of BE titles over that time as well so it's easy to see why there's a lot of positivity amongst the fans of the team... Over this same time frame we've seen Gtown basketball become a program expected to flame out in spectacular ways over the past decade. Add in a less than modern administration and it's easy to see see why folks are much more guarded with their expectations about the basketball program... I definitely agree that it's all about expectations... I just think that a lot of Georgetown fans have outsized expectations, given all the factors at play. Even among the schools who are committed to not out-and-out cheating through under-the-table pay-for-play, the majority are willing to engage in some combination of extra-privileged treatment (yeah, sure, that's definitely not an "athlete" dorm because there's some non-athletes thrown in there), academic fraud, running interference with the student conduct and criminal justice systems (*ahem*), the promise of sweetheart hookups post-graduation, etc. etc. It's impossible to accurately assess the level or impact of such things, of course, whether in isolation or as compared to other schools. But I think a lot of people are in denial about just how big of a role it plays, in large part because it calls into question the legitimacy... or at least tastefulness... of the whole enterprise.I don't think any of this makes success impossible at a place like Georgetown, but it does increase the degree of difficulty. Can a first-time head coach like Patrick Ewing manage it? Perhaps. But it's definitely not a sure bet, even with all of the advantages he does have. College soccer is a very different animal, of course. In my view expectations for the BB team isn't outsized due to any of the reasons(excuses) you provided above, I think they're what they are because folks see other programs with very similar credentials thriving in this era of CBB so it's natural to wonder why Gtown can't do the same... Do you really think Xavier is skirting rules to gain its success? |
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Dec 26, 2019 22:16:14 GMT -5
You mean besides winning an NCAA championship? Did... did we all just forget about the whole "Kevin Ollie fired for cause" thing? “Cause” was pretty broadly defined by UConn so that they could get rid of him. If what Ollie did was cause for termination, there wouldn’t be a whole lot of coaches left. |
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Dec 26, 2019 22:19:53 GMT -5
Yes, Xavier is crooked. UConn as well.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 26, 2019 22:34:43 GMT -5
Look, its one thing to be dubious about the state of the program itself I suppose. Its quite another for people to have negative, nervous trepidations regarding if Yurtseven's early stellar play will translate to the Big East. That's all I'm saying. We are talking about an upperclassmen who was an All ACC player when he was an underclassmen. This won't be his first rodeo.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 26, 2019 23:01:02 GMT -5
Yes, Xavier is crooked. UConn as well. How so for Xavier? |
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Dec 26, 2019 23:59:20 GMT -5
Did... did we all just forget about the whole "Kevin Ollie fired for cause" thing? “Cause” was pretty broadly defined by UConn so that they could get rid of him. If what Ollie did was cause for termination, there wouldn’t be a whole lot of coaches left. It was also cause enough for the NCAA to hit him with a three-year show-cause ban, so it seems like there was some flavor of "cause" present. But hey, if you want to argue that the university that kept Jim Calhoun gainfully employed for decades was unfairly harsh toward its alumni coach who won them a national title, above and beyond what most universities would do... you do you. I'm sure they ran a real tight ship over there  |
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Dec 27, 2019 1:22:06 GMT -5
“Cause” was pretty broadly defined by UConn so that they could get rid of him. If what Ollie did was cause for termination, there wouldn’t be a whole lot of coaches left. It was also cause enough for the NCAA to hit him with a three-year show-cause ban, so it seems like there was some flavor of "cause" present. But hey, if you want to argue that the university that kept Jim Calhoun gainfully employed for decades was unfairly harsh toward its alumni coach who won them a national title, above and beyond what most universities would do... you do you. I'm sure they ran a real tight ship over there Yeah we should definitely trust the impartial pronouncements of the body that banned Wiseman for accepting some moving expenses from someone who was not affiliated with Memphis at the time, but let UNC off the hook entirely for creating fake classes for its athletic department. The disparate treatment of Ollie and Calhoun is the point. If UConn held Calhoun to the same ethical standard it held Ollie, Calhoun would have been fired long ago. Ollie was fired for poor performance, and then UConn drummed up some minor infractions to save itself from paying a $10m severance. And meanwhile the NCAA gets to look like it takes compliance seriously by punishing Ollie (while barely slapping UConn on the wrist). But sure, “you do you” too. |
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Dec 27, 2019 8:10:22 GMT -5
I think the “outsized” expectations are in line with an “outsized” budget. If we are annually spending a Top 10-15 budget on basketball (and yes I realize the arena is a big part of that), don’t we deserve to be producing at least a Top 30 team? With only 2 NCAA wins since 2008, I don’t think we can make that claim.
I’d have to look at the other teams spending as much as we are, but off the top of my head I can’t think of a lower ROI program in the country based strictly on those metrics. Good, bad, or indifferent I think it’s fair to have moderate expectations for a program where so many resources are being devoted.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Dec 27, 2019 8:23:00 GMT -5
Look, its one thing to be dubious about the state of the program itself I suppose. Its quite another for people to have negative, nervous trepidations regarding if Yurtseven's early stellar play will translate to the Big East. That's all I'm saying. We are talking about an upperclassmen who was an All ACC player when he was an underclassmen. This won't be his first rodeo. Agree with this. The kid is very good. NBA good? Not certain that he has the athleticism, but it's hard to tell because he is still developing and coming off a long layoff. I thought after the start of the season that the pairing of LeBlanc and Yurtseven would be incredible with LeBlanc taking much of the defensive and rebounding pressure off of Yurtseven and allowing him to eventually move farther from the basket to show his range. Obviously that is not in the cards, but having watched him in the past and in a shoot-around last year, this kid has much more range than we are seeing with the reduced roster. |
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Dec 27, 2019 8:47:20 GMT -5
I think the “outsized” expectations are in line with an “outsized” budget. If we are annually spending a Top 10-15 budget on basketball (and yes I realize the arena is a big part of that), don’t we deserve to be producing at least a Top 30 team? With only 2 NCAA wins since 2008, I don’t think we can make that claim. I’d have to look at the other teams spending as much as we are, but off the top of my head I can’t think of a lower ROI program in the country based strictly on those metrics. Good, bad, or indifferent I think it’s fair to have moderate expectations for a program where so many resources are being devoted. FWIW, I think this is a very fair argument, even if it is subject to the usual caveats about prices being high in DC, arena rent, the fact that we don't have local businesses falling all over themselves to give us in-kind contributions the way a lot of state schools do, etc. And my aforementioned caveats about various chicanery that takes place in programs to get an advantage with players - running a competive clean(er) program is more expensive in the above-board costs. To whom much is given, much is expected. The basketball program has been given much, especially with the TAC. One of the other tenants of that facility just won the school's third NCAA national title. What do you have to say for yourselves, Coaches Ewing and Howard? Pat, for his part, at least has some notable wins to point to, including this recent little run. |
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 27, 2019 14:41:28 GMT -5
Gtown #7 seed...
-Pitting Georgetown (got better when the roster was depleted) against Florida (got worse with a major talent infusion) was a delightful result; I’m sure Patrick Ewing and Mike White would be an epic Checkers match
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Dec 27, 2019 17:24:03 GMT -5
I am literally excited to see just about every Big East conference game (not just Hoya games) this year. I hope the Hoya's performances only increase my excitement.
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HoyaChris
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Post by HoyaChris on Dec 27, 2019 19:34:27 GMT -5
Gtown #7 seed... -Pitting Georgetown (got better when the roster was depleted) against Florida (got worse with a major talent infusion) was a delightful result; I’m sure Patrick Ewing and Mike White would be an epic Checkers match
Nine Big East teams in this bracket, and only Marquette is close to not being in. The Hoyas are #25 on his S Curve. |
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