prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 31, 2022 21:44:58 GMT -5
Yes, but there’s no way to excuse Dante’s 17-footers with16 seconds on the shot clock. My question is: does he have the green light to shoot them? If yes, then Pat cannot blame him and has to live with the consequences. If no, why doesn’t Pat sit him immediately? Beard can play for him, Azinge and Carey can cover too while Dante is receiving instructions on the bench. I believe he has the green light just as he did during the BET and now is frustrated and tired.
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Post by BeantownHoya on Jan 31, 2022 21:59:16 GMT -5
I think some of the reality is...realizing rankings are not everything...but he is probably the +300 recruit that we thought we were initially getting.
To his credit his was thrust into a starters role last year and performed admiradly in the regular season and then beyond expectations and then some in the BE tourney.
However nothing has really changed...he is a 26% three point shooter, he has a ton of trouble finishing at the rim and he is more scorer than pure PG but w/his size he can't play anywhere else.
I think ultimately he is a below average starting PG in the BE but would be a great backup PG in the BE. He is truly miscast.
That doesn't mean though you can take dumb shots, play mediocre defense and get away w/no consequences and Beard deserves at least 15 minutes a game and some of his playing time. I think if the expectation is he will be an all BE player at any point of his career I have a hard time ever seeing that happening.
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iowa80
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Post by iowa80 on Jan 31, 2022 22:08:03 GMT -5
Since I'm hoping he's a four year player, I think he'll mature into someone VG. He has the make-up and the speed. I need to get out my Joey Brown videos.
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Feb 1, 2022 6:27:49 GMT -5
I know that results are the bottom line. But, if you can't see that Dante has been playing through more than one injury for most of this season, you're not watching the same games I have been watching. IF we had the luxury of giving him fewer minutes...there might be a difference to these appraisals. Having had a couple of serious sports-related leg injuries, I see a player who is not hobbled by them. Whatever he has, it is not preventing him from going as fast as last year through the paint, he’s rebounding and he’s bringing the ball up quickly as Pat demands. What I see is a player with too much weight on his shoulders. He touches his knee or his lower leg or his ankle, and then goes at warp speed. Maybe it’s a cramp here or there, but then flies through the paint. But, his overall body language is that of a frustrated player. pr if you have played through sports injuries you know that when you have the ball in your hands you are pain-free. I do agree with you that injury isn't Dante's issue this season. I believe that Dante is a little deeper in the water than he can handle. Ewing took him straight from the kiddie pool to an Olympic size. He is probably only ready for 6ft or 10ft max.....and I do believe Tyler should get more minutes but Tyler isn't ready for shared equally shared duties. Maybe a solid 10mins/gm.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 1, 2022 6:47:46 GMT -5
Having had a couple of serious sports-related leg injuries, I see a player who is not hobbled by them. Whatever he has, it is not preventing him from going as fast as last year through the paint, he’s rebounding and he’s bringing the ball up quickly as Pat demands. What I see is a player with too much weight on his shoulders. He touches his knee or his lower leg or his ankle, and then goes at warp speed. Maybe it’s a cramp here or there, but then flies through the paint. But, his overall body language is that of a frustrated player. pr if you have played through sports injuries you know that when you have the ball in your hands you are pain-free. I do agree with you that injury isn't Dante's issue this season. I’m not going to go into specifics, but there are injuries that prevent you from walking or from running at all. Let’s see how he does with two games in three days. No hero ball please.
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mfk24
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Post by mfk24 on Feb 1, 2022 8:17:26 GMT -5
I think some of the reality is...realizing rankings are not everything...but he is probably the +300 recruit that we thought we were initially getting. To his credit his was thrust into a starters role last year and performed admiradly in the regular season and then beyond expectations and then some in the BE tourney. However nothing has really changed...he is a 26% three point shooter, he has a ton of trouble finishing at the rim and he is more scorer than pure PG but w/his size he can't play anywhere else. I think ultimately he is a below average starting PG in the BE but would be a great backup PG in the BE. He is truly miscast. That doesn't mean though you can take dumb shots, play mediocre defense and get away w/no consequences and Beard deserves at least 15 minutes a game and some of his playing time. I think if the expectation is he will be an all BE player at any point of his career I have a hard time ever seeing that happening. I disagree that it’s the ratings. It’s not as though the BE is littered with 5 star or even 4 star PGs, in fact, it’s mostly 3 star guys with more seasoning. The highest rated guys are Nembhard for Creighton who is having his own set of freshman struggles, and Aiken who started his career at Harvard and Scruggs who’s a 5th year guy at this point. Harris’ issues are decision making, which I think stems from being given too much freedom coupled with his massive ego. He thinks very highly of himself and Ewing lets him get away with just about everything which lends itself to a lot of me first basketball. Sure some guys come in with naturally higher basketball IQ, and maybe that’s Kolek for Marquette, who is a 2 star guy by the way and also in his second season, but good coaches still have to mold them. It’s why I think Akinjo had no issues at Arizona or Baylor, coaches made it clear day 1 what the expectations were and didn’t let him get away with blowing them off. I said it in another thread, maybe the last game day one, but there’s nothing wrong with pulling him for a play or 2 after a bonehead decision to not make a single pass and dribble into a pull up jumper with 16 seconds left on the shot clock. Pull him, tell him to run the offense or he sits, and then let him try again.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Feb 1, 2022 8:32:31 GMT -5
I do not see Dante playing hero ball. I see him trying to balance distributing the ball with scoring in an offense short on scoring. That is a hard balance for anyone to achieve.
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rhw485
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Post by rhw485 on Feb 1, 2022 9:51:18 GMT -5
I disagree that it’s the ratings. It’s not as though the BE is littered with 5 star or even 4 star PGs, in fact, it’s mostly 3 star guys with more seasoning. The highest rated guys are Nembhard for Creighton who is having his own set of freshman struggles, and Aiken who started his career at Harvard and Scruggs who’s a 5th year guy at this point. Harris’ issues are decision making, which I think stems from being given too much freedom coupled with his massive ego. He thinks very highly of himself and Ewing lets him get away with just about everything which lends itself to a lot of me first basketball. Sure some guys come in with naturally higher basketball IQ, and maybe that’s Kolek for Marquette, who is a 2 star guy by the way and also in his second season, but good coaches still have to mold them. It’s why I think Akinjo had no issues at Arizona or Baylor, coaches made it clear day 1 what the expectations were and didn’t let him get away with blowing them off. I said it in another thread, maybe the last game day one, but there’s nothing wrong with pulling him for a play or 2 after a bonehead decision to not make a single pass and dribble into a pull up jumper with 16 seconds left on the shot clock. Pull him, tell him to run the offense or he sits, and then let him try again. So I was going to leave this alone, I had said my Dante piece, but I really dont like the insinuation of a massive ego. When we sign a recruit, we want "dawgs" who are tough and have confidence in themselves. Now we're struggling and we call it ego. Maybe the reason Dante doesn't get pulled is Ewing realizes it's our best chance to score on a given possession. I agree I hate those possessions, even when he makes the shot. But to assume it's ego without knowing what the coaching staff is telling him is unfair. I see an undersized guy throwing his body around for loose balls, guys with egos dont do that. And it's funny you mention Kolek. Here's a fun filter. All BE players who have played more than half of their teams minutes and have a usage over 20% (basically anything above average) barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?link=y&sIndex=5&minusage=20.1&cvalue=BE&ocvalue=undefined&year=2022&minmin=50&start=20211101&end=2022050130 players, sorted by O-rating Dante is 25th (Aminu 19th fwiw). But look who Dante is ahead of. Kolek, Nembhard, Richmond, Chuck Harris. Maybe being a young BE point guard being asked to carry their team is hard? Posh Alexander looks to be the biggest exception, although given he's grabbing offensive rebounds on 9% of his teams opportunities to help his stats, I'm not sure how fair that one is. They have very similar assist / turnover rates, similar poor 3 point shooting. Posh is shooting a higher percentage on 2s because he doesn't have to settle for long 2s, partly because they have Champagnie to help. I agree Dante is struggling, and at this rate we have to go into the offseason looking to bring in someone to challenge him. But the insinuation of an ego really bothered me.
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mfk24
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Post by mfk24 on Feb 1, 2022 10:21:38 GMT -5
I disagree that it’s the ratings. It’s not as though the BE is littered with 5 star or even 4 star PGs, in fact, it’s mostly 3 star guys with more seasoning. The highest rated guys are Nembhard for Creighton who is having his own set of freshman struggles, and Aiken who started his career at Harvard and Scruggs who’s a 5th year guy at this point. Harris’ issues are decision making, which I think stems from being given too much freedom coupled with his massive ego. He thinks very highly of himself and Ewing lets him get away with just about everything which lends itself to a lot of me first basketball. Sure some guys come in with naturally higher basketball IQ, and maybe that’s Kolek for Marquette, who is a 2 star guy by the way and also in his second season, but good coaches still have to mold them. It’s why I think Akinjo had no issues at Arizona or Baylor, coaches made it clear day 1 what the expectations were and didn’t let him get away with blowing them off. I said it in another thread, maybe the last game day one, but there’s nothing wrong with pulling him for a play or 2 after a bonehead decision to not make a single pass and dribble into a pull up jumper with 16 seconds left on the shot clock. Pull him, tell him to run the offense or he sits, and then let him try again. So I was going to leave this alone, I had said my Dante piece, but I really dont like the insinuation of a massive ego. When we sign a recruit, we want "dawgs" who are tough and have confidence in themselves. Now we're struggling and we call it ego. Maybe the reason Dante doesn't get pulled is Ewing realizes it's our best chance to score on a given possession. I agree I hate those possessions, even when he makes the shot. But to assume it's ego without knowing what the coaching staff is telling him is unfair. I see an undersized guy throwing his body around for loose balls, guys with egos dont do that. And it's funny you mention Kolek. Here's a fun filter. All BE players who have played more than half of their teams minutes and have a usage over 20% (basically anything above average) barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?link=y&sIndex=5&minusage=20.1&cvalue=BE&ocvalue=undefined&year=2022&minmin=50&start=20211101&end=2022050130 players, sorted by O-rating Dante is 25th (Aminu 19th fwiw). But look who Dante is ahead of. Kolek, Nembhard, Richmond, Chuck Harris. Maybe being a young BE point guard being asked to carry their team is hard? Posh Alexander looks to be the biggest exception, although given he's grabbing offensive rebounds on 9% of his teams opportunities to help his stats, I'm not sure how fair that one is. They have very similar assist / turnover rates, similar poor 3 point shooting. Posh is shooting a higher percentage on 2s because he doesn't have to settle for long 2s, partly because they have Champagnie to help. I agree Dante is struggling, and at this rate we have to go into the offseason looking to bring in someone to challenge him. But the insinuation of an ego really bothered me. Look, he absolutely has an ego, a chip if you want to call it that, but it’s there. I’m sure all those guys do, you have to when you’re an undersized guy, fighting tooth and nail to get yours. That’s not necessarily a bad thing and I don’t disagree that you want guys with some of that edge, but if you’re gonna have that type of attitude, you have to back it up. He’s either turned down his social media or I’ve just been paying a lot less attention, but he’d be on live talking all the time last year. The Marquette games I’ve watched, Kolek definitely passes the eye test, but I’ll admit I haven’t looked at the numbers to back it up.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Feb 1, 2022 10:50:00 GMT -5
Anyone watch Akinjo last night? Imagine him rather than Dante being our starting point guard. Probably still not a tourney team but definitely not 0-7.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Feb 1, 2022 10:53:22 GMT -5
Imagine him running the offense and not quitting on the team.
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AvantGuardHoya
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Post by AvantGuardHoya on Feb 1, 2022 12:16:54 GMT -5
I'm over 70 now so forgive me for bringing up a 20th century concept I'm probably misremembering, but wasn't there something called a sophomore slump? Probably some BS cooked up as an excuse,no?
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Feb 1, 2022 12:27:49 GMT -5
Anyone watch Akinjo last night? Imagine him rather than Dante being our starting point guard. Probably still not a tourney team but definitely not 0-7. Imagine Akinjo on last years team instead of Dante. That is where not having Akinjo hurt the most. That team would have had a chance to get to the 2nd weekend. imo…..JA, Don, Morko, Bile, Q with Juggy, Dante, TimI off the bench....
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Feb 1, 2022 12:35:59 GMT -5
I'm over 70 now so forgive me for bringing up a 20th century concept I'm probably misremembering, but wasn't there something called a sophomore slump? Probably some BS cooked up as an excuse,no? Indeed there was and I think it was mentioned earlier in this thread. The theory being that after seeing your game freshman year, opponents now have "the book" on you and can scheme proper offenses/defenses to negate your strengths and exploit your weaknesses.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 1, 2022 12:38:25 GMT -5
I'm over 70 now so forgive me for bringing up a 20th century concept I'm probably misremembering, but wasn't there something called a sophomore slump? Probably some BS cooked up as an excuse,no? So under that concept, what should we expect with Collin?
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AvantGuardHoya
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Post by AvantGuardHoya on Feb 1, 2022 12:52:23 GMT -5
I'm over 70 now so forgive me for bringing up a 20th century concept I'm probably misremembering, but wasn't there something called a sophomore slump? Probably some BS cooked up as an excuse,no? So under that concept, what should we expect with Collin? Obviously the concept is not applicable to every player, pr. If that is why you dismiss it, c'est la vie. It's like much of what's posted. You've got your opinion, others have theirs.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 1, 2022 12:57:24 GMT -5
So under that concept, what should we expect with Collin? Obviously the concept is not applicable to every player, pr. If that is why you dismiss it, c'est la vie. It's like much of what's posted. You've got your opinion, others have theirs. I’m fine with that. I just want Collin to be a force next year with his bag of tricks. Imagine a fit Collin being able to stick with his man on defense (without fouling) and taking charges a la Jagan. On offense, I think he could be a 15 ppg player, starting or not. As to soph Clark, who knows, but he must be so frustrated. As to Dante, I don’t want him feeling that he has to carry the load and the only way that doesn’t happen next year, with the roster as is and what we know of what is coming, is by Aminu staying, Wayne playing like a starter, and grabbing an alpha senior/grad or two.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Feb 6, 2022 15:15:35 GMT -5
If there is such a thing as a sophomore slump...I think Dante is there. He seems lost out there. Too much dribbling, too indecisive, and his shot looks bad. The rotation on his shot goes side to side. Feel bad for the kid.....he's clearly pressing.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Feb 6, 2022 15:46:51 GMT -5
How could he not be?
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beenaround
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Post by beenaround on Feb 6, 2022 16:14:24 GMT -5
Dante gives his all, but is obviously a marginal BE starting PG, at best. Last year he had more talent around him (hard to believe, but true), which made it easier on him.
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