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Post by hoyaatheart55 on Dec 24, 2021 11:36:19 GMT -5
At least Dante has time to heal up. Hopefully he’s good to go when we play again.
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Post by iheartdurenbros on Dec 24, 2021 12:28:54 GMT -5
Think he's just quoting that new Rod Wave song that just dropped a couple weeks ago called Nirvana. Ah, yes. Of course that’s what he’s doing. I’ll show myself out. 🥴 You were definitely not alone. His original tweet put me in a funk. A very sad one.
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mapei
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,089
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Post by mapei on Dec 24, 2021 16:20:46 GMT -5
For those of us who don't follow Dante on Twitter, what are people talking about?
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 30, 2022 11:39:58 GMT -5
What's wrong with him? Is he hurt? He had leg and ankle injuries earlier in the season and then that overzealous Georgetown trainer came dashing in and slammed his body weight on Dante's injured ankle.
Then he had that wrist injury.
He's playing horribly now, even on the defensive end. Matador defense and got smoked for layups against Butler about five times for easy layups including the critical one in crunchtime.
The rest of the starting unit is gelling and starting to click but he doesn't seem to be on the same page with everyone else. He was a liability on both sides of the floor against Butler. I have to think he's really injured and limited.
[Post 2, Sunday 1/30 11:34 AM]
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by hoya9797 on Jan 30, 2022 11:51:06 GMT -5
The rest of the starting unit is gelling and starting to click LOL
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hoyaroc
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by hoyaroc on Jan 30, 2022 12:10:50 GMT -5
The rest of the starting unit is gelling and starting to click LOL 9797 your life is miserable.
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hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by hoyaboya on Jan 31, 2022 14:27:13 GMT -5
Stats since Big East Conference play started: 33.3 minutes/game 31.9% - fg% 28.6% - 3fg% 3 assists/game 2.83 turnovers/game 2.5 rebounds/game 1 steal/game And these stats don't account for his below average team defense, ball stopping dribbling routines and inability/unwillingness to get back to stop the fast break. I know Tyler hasn't played well recently, either, but the Hoyas have to get more from the PG position to have a chance at winning some games. www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/dante-harris-1.html
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Jan 31, 2022 14:43:25 GMT -5
Stats since Big East Conference play started: 33.3 minutes/game 31.9% - fg% 28.6% - 3fg% 3 assists/game 2.83 turnovers/game 2.5 rebounds/game 1 steal/game And these stats don't account for his below average team defense, ball stopping dribbling routines and inability/unwillingness to get back to stop the fast break. I know Tyler hasn't played well recently, either, but the Hoyas have to get more from the PG position to have a chance at winning some games. www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/dante-harris-1.html100% on this. Dante has really struggled this year. I was expecting a lot more based off of the tale end of last year. Maybe he was getting rim protection that hid those missed assignments last year but Butler (thompson I think) was going around him at will. I really thought he would be a catalyst for the team this year. He has elite speed and seems to have the fire you want, but I really wish he and Beard were closer to a 50/50 split. Ewing has the luxury to pull him if he makes dumb mistakes to get it through that he needs to value the ball. He isn't the sole reason for our woes this year, but I was expecting for him to be a plus player and that hasn't been the case. I hope he can turn it around because I just feel like he has been thrown into the fire a bit too soon due to our lack of senior PG leadership the past two years.
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bostonfan
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,531
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Post by bostonfan on Jan 31, 2022 15:09:13 GMT -5
Stats since Big East Conference play started: 33.3 minutes/game 31.9% - fg% 28.6% - 3fg% 3 assists/game 2.83 turnovers/game 2.5 rebounds/game 1 steal/game And these stats don't account for his below average team defense, ball stopping dribbling routines and inability/unwillingness to get back to stop the fast break. I know Tyler hasn't played well recently, either, but the Hoyas have to get more from the PG position to have a chance at winning some games. www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/dante-harris-1.html100% on this. Dante has really struggled this year. I was expecting a lot more based off of the tale end of last year. Maybe he was getting rim protection that hid those missed assignments last year but Butler (thompson I think) was going around him at will. I really thought he would be a catalyst for the team this year. He has elite speed and seems to have the fire you want, but I really wish he and Beard were closer to a 50/50 split. Ewing has the luxury to pull him if he makes dumb mistakes to get it through that he needs to value the ball. He isn't the sole reason for our woes this year, but I was expecting for him to be a plus player and that hasn't been the case. I hope he can turn it around because I just feel like he has been thrown into the fire a bit too soon due to our lack of senior PG leadership the past two years. Dante has certainly struggled this year. He seems to be caught in a position where he is trying to do too much for his team and that is leading to poor decisions and subpar play. He is playing with the same fire that he did last year, but it seems like he is trying to be something he just isn't right now. He definitely can score, but he has been looking for his own offense too often this season and it has led to some really poor possessions and poorly timed shots. I don't think he is a bad 3 point shooter, if he just took open shots when they presented themselves. The biggest issues with him this year has been the turnovers and below average defense. I have not checked the stats from the Butler game, but I would assume the Hoyas had 12-15 turnovers and I think more than half of them were from their two point guards, which just can't have on a team that needs to get good shots on as many possessions as possible. He has above average quickness and speed and should be able to stay in front of whoever he is covering, but too many times he gets beat off the dribble and that leads to a layup or a kick out for an open three. I like Tyler as a point guard also, and I think he will continue to improve, but he has struggled in the last few games with turnovers. He is more of a pass first PG and moves the ball quicker, but he has a habit of trying to make the perfect pass sometimes, when the easy pass might be a better option. I am sure he is pressing to some degree because he is not getting as many minutes as he would like right now, but I really think he would see more minutes if he just reduced the turnovers and played good on ball defense. On a team without a consistent low post presence, point guard play (and really limiting empty possessions) becomes so important. Dante is just a sophomore, but he has played a lot over his two years, so he needs to start showing the maturity of a more experienced PG. I really pull for Dante to pay well (along with Tyler) and hope they can both elevate their performances over the next few games
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beenaround
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,476
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Post by beenaround on Jan 31, 2022 15:57:19 GMT -5
I like some of the things I've seen from Tyler. But I do not think he has a particularly tight handle. Not sure he is or will be a pure point guard. Now, sometimes you do not need to be. Jon Wallace wasn't either...but he and Sapp, and even Rivers could also share that responsibility.
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Post by wponds on Jan 31, 2022 16:55:52 GMT -5
The way I see it is that player progression isn't linear and it's not predictable like it would be in a video game. He had a great end to last year, but now it seems like he's got even more weight on his shoulders and trying to do a lot of everything and forcing things.
For most of the season last year, he was the 4th or even 5th option on offense. Only responsibility was to make sure his teammates got their shots and to score when needed. This year, I feel like he's still trying to figure out how to balance being a primary scorer while also helping make others better. Add that in with the fact that the scouting report is out on him now that he's a sophomore, and you'll see some struggles and inefficiencies.
Long-term, I'm not really worried. Keep putting pieces in place around him and things will get better as he continues to mature.
In terms of over-dribbling, he's one of the very few guys on the team that can create off the dribble, so back to my first point, I think he's just trying to do too much
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bills
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Post by bills on Jan 31, 2022 17:00:26 GMT -5
Agreed
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rhw485
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Post by rhw485 on Jan 31, 2022 17:05:31 GMT -5
I will fully admit it's getting tougher to defend Dante's performance. A few points I'd like to make: - Dante's defense against Thompson on Saturday was unacceptable. Whether it was coaching staff not providing an appropriate scouting report to go under screens, or simply getting flat footed, or letting pick and roll coverage get in the way, we let a non-shooter consistently get to the rim and make layups and collapse the defense. But I do feel like it's become consensus that he's been bad all season on defense, and I haven't seen that. Gillespie posted him up yes, I thought the perimeter defense on Gillespie was fine and the bigs were unwilling to step out to the 3 point line to help him on screens, which forced Ewing to go small so he could hard hedge. Definitely something to monitor this week but I'm not ready to say his defense has simply been terrible all year.
- Dante still has a fundamental skill that the rest of the team lacks, and that's the ability to break his man down off the dribble. There has to be a middle ground where that is harnessed without being to the detriment of the team. It is on Dante and the coaching staff to find that balance, even eliminating the no-pass possessions that end up in a jumper would be a start
- Clearly Dante is shouldering too much of a burden on offense...the problem is I don't know where those possessions should be going. Aminu has scaled down his possessions as being a creator in pick and roll because he couldn't handle it when Dante was out. Carey has been great but I do think there's a limit to how many times you want him as the primary creator, he thrives as a secondary off someone else's action. We have no post presence, nobody wants to see Kaiden shoot more. Maybe you could argue Collin but again would that just be post ups? My point is, some of his stats are bad because we have nobody else to take the shots so someone has to take them.
- I understand the desire to play Tyler, because you'd think it can't get worse. Except Tyler's stats legitimately are worse across the board. I fear Tyler is just a bad fit for the current offensive scheme / structure. A "combo" guard sounds great in theory, except his handles don't really allow him to be a dynamic pick and roll threat (he's done a reasonable job making some basic reads but doesn't stress the defense consistently) and as a spacer off other pick and roll action he's shooting 26% from 3. Of all the players, he feels like one who would do better in a more motion based offense where he could get half a step off a curl to help create drives and dishes as opposed to static pick and rolls. I still feel like there's time but I think he's stuck between wanting to be a point guard and maybe realizing that's not his skillset at this level. To me it's still the Jagan parallels except he's a little smaller. Jagan ultimately carved out a valuable role as a low usage undersized-3&D wing. I do like his defense and maybe that's enough to warrant minutes if Dante continues to struggle on that end. Playing Dante and Tyler together is feasible but now we've got two 25% 3 point shooters on the floor and that's the only positive thing going about our offense so idk.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 31, 2022 17:08:33 GMT -5
His struggles are a symptom of the larger problem that the team is not good enough and lacks enough true scoring threats.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 31, 2022 18:20:29 GMT -5
I will fully admit it's getting tougher to defend Dante's performance. A few points I'd like to make: - Dante's defense against Thompson on Saturday was unacceptable. Whether it was coaching staff not providing an appropriate scouting report to go under screens, or simply getting flat footed, or letting pick and roll coverage get in the way, we let a non-shooter consistently get to the rim and make layups and collapse the defense. But I do feel like it's become consensus that he's been bad all season on defense, and I haven't seen that. Gillespie posted him up yes, I thought the perimeter defense on Gillespie was fine and the bigs were unwilling to step out to the 3 point line to help him on screens, which forced Ewing to go small so he could hard hedge. Definitely something to monitor this week but I'm not ready to say his defense has simply been terrible all year.
- Dante still has a fundamental skill that the rest of the team lacks, and that's the ability to break his man down off the dribble. There has to be a middle ground where that is harnessed without being to the detriment of the team. It is on Dante and the coaching staff to find that balance, even eliminating the no-pass possessions that end up in a jumper would be a start
- Clearly Dante is shouldering too much of a burden on offense...the problem is I don't know where those possessions should be going. Aminu has scaled down his possessions as being a creator in pick and roll because he couldn't handle it when Dante was out. Carey has been great but I do think there's a limit to how many times you want him as the primary creator, he thrives as a secondary off someone else's action. We have no post presence, nobody wants to see Kaiden shoot more. Maybe you could argue Collin but again would that just be post ups? My point is, some of his stats are bad because we have nobody else to take the shots so someone has to take them.
- I understand the desire to play Tyler, because you'd think it can't get worse. Except Tyler's stats legitimately are worse across the board. I fear Tyler is just a bad fit for the current offensive scheme / structure. A "combo" guard sounds great in theory, except his handles don't really allow him to be a dynamic pick and roll threat (he's done a reasonable job making some basic reads but doesn't stress the defense consistently) and as a spacer off other pick and roll action he's shooting 26% from 3. Of all the players, he feels like one who would do better in a more motion based offense where he could get half a step off a curl to help create drives and dishes as opposed to static pick and rolls. I still feel like there's time but I think he's stuck between wanting to be a point guard and maybe realizing that's not his skillset at this level. To me it's still the Jagan parallels except he's a little smaller. Jagan ultimately carved out a valuable role as a low usage undersized-3&D wing. I do like his defense and maybe that's enough to warrant minutes if Dante continues to struggle on that end. Playing Dante and Tyler together is feasible but now we've got two 25% 3 point shooters on the floor and that's the only positive thing going about our offense so idk.
I agree with much of this. A few thoughts: - Dante's Defense. Last year, I legitimately thought Harris was a good defender, and he's clearly playing worse this season. But, the entire defense is essentially broken this year, nobody is doing a good job, and the defense appears to be less than the summary of the parts. So, while that may play a role, there's clearly no excuse for his poor individual defense. Could it be that he's not 100% healthy? I don't know. But something is off compared to last year. - Shouldering The Burden. I agree Dante is, at times, trying to do too much. And, I also agree there's really nowhere else for the ball to go. I just think the offensive system we have now, which is somewhat predicated on beating your man or dribble/drive is problematic simply because we do not have players skilled enough to do it. I think a more structured offense would work better for all involved. Take the Syracuse game. Because they play zone, we had to play a more structured, deliberate offense, and it worked pretty well, and Aminu had one of his best games. The problem with Harris' shooting, as well, is that his game has turned largely into mid-range jumpers. He can beat his man oftentimes but he's too small to finish at the rim consistently, and his threes are terrible. So, he just isn't getting it done. - No alternative. While I think there's an argument Beard should get some time, he's clearly not the savior some people think (or thought) he is. I do not mean that as a slight at all, but as you point out (and I pointed out similarly in another thread), Beard's numbers are worse than Harris' (especially on turnovers) though to be fair, he's played a lot less. Still, I don't think the answer is Beard in this instance, though I don't mind if his minutes go up a bit. To make this offense work, we simply cannot have two guards that shoot 26% from three point range. One or both of them need to step it up, otherwise they are a huge liability when they are on the court together.
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hoya73
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by hoya73 on Jan 31, 2022 21:07:43 GMT -5
I know that results are the bottom line. But, if you can't see that Dante has been playing through more than one injury for most of this season, you're not watching the same games I have been watching. IF we had the luxury of giving him fewer minutes...there might be a difference to these appraisals.
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Post by BeantownHoya on Jan 31, 2022 21:15:52 GMT -5
I know that results are the bottom line. But, if you can't see that Dante has been playing through more than one injury for most of this season, you're not watching the same games I have been watching. IF we had the luxury of giving him fewer minutes...there might be a difference to these appraisals. So your contention is Ewing is knowingly playing him 30+ minutes a game while injured at the detriment of the team versus giving a few more minutes to Beard each game in a season that is already completely lost. If I needed more convincing that Ewing has no idea what he's doing you certainly helped cement it.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 31, 2022 21:27:43 GMT -5
I know that results are the bottom line. But, if you can't see that Dante has been playing through more than one injury for most of this season, you're not watching the same games I have been watching. IF we had the luxury of giving him fewer minutes...there might be a difference to these appraisals. Having had a couple of serious sports-related leg injuries, I see a player who is not hobbled by them. Whatever he has, it is not preventing him from going as fast as last year through the paint, he’s rebounding and he’s bringing the ball up quickly as Pat demands. What I see is a player with too much weight on his shoulders. He touches his knee or his lower leg or his ankle, and then goes at warp speed. Maybe it’s a cramp here or there, but then flies through the paint. But, his overall body language is that of a frustrated player.
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iowa80
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Post by iowa80 on Jan 31, 2022 21:39:03 GMT -5
Part of the issue is that the offense takes too long to develop in the half-court, and even then it frequently starts with a high pick and no roll from the center. I don't think that's all on Dante.
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dense
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by dense on Jan 31, 2022 21:43:58 GMT -5
1 thing I've noticed that breaks us down he does is terrible help d especially when he gets help on a drive. He turns into a spectator often just hiding behind the center that came over to stop the drive and doesn't angle himself to get in the passing lane or make a more different angle for the pass.
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