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Post by RockawayHoya on Mar 18, 2019 11:03:42 GMT -5
This is spot on... The Sports Reference site added the RSCI feature to its roster page which highlights the point Yaboy is making, only one player inside the top 40... www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/villanova/2016.htmlPlayer development, Player development, Player development!! How well PE & staff does in this area will have a big impact on how successful his time @ Gtown will be... They haven't gotten off to a great start with their 1st class, so the jury is still out on them imo... In addition to player development, there has to be also some level of coaching development. In Pat's first year, we blew numerous games (Xavier, Butler, Cuse) due to poor execution in close and late situations, many of which came when we were trying to protect sizable leads. The issue carried over to this year (Cuse again, St. John's, Marquette, etc.) and wasn't corrected until late in the season. The issues likely cost us an NCAA bid. These are issues that you are more likely to live with when you have so much youth on the team playing big minutes in key spots. But I need to see some real growth in this area starting next year. If Pat wants his team to be playing in his image, it better include better decision making and situational understanding in addition to the toughness and effort he's looking for. Otherwise, save a considerable and unforseen talent upgrade, we are going to see much of the same next season.
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Post by wrestlemania on Mar 18, 2019 11:03:59 GMT -5
It will not happen as long as Pops is the de facto GM of the program. Let's face it -- it's not a coincidence that the Board has never conducted a bona fide coaching search since he retired twenty years ago. Notwithstanding the blip of success with III, keeping John happy has always had a higher priority than finding the best available guy. And that means you don't get the job if you don't have close ties to John or the glory days. Enter Patrick Ewing. I want him to succeed but will not be surprised if he does not.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2019 11:17:30 GMT -5
Or that Jessie was a "waste of a scholarship"... or, midway through this season, that our BE ROY & conference assist leader was a dud and that we "NEED TO FIND A POINT GUARD!" Where do I start? I never said Hoyas wouldn't win more than 4 BE games. Rather, I said, "I want to think we can finish 9-9 but our poor defense, especially on ball defense against opposing guards has me scared. If Cole and Williams can light us up for 52 what will the premier BE guards do to us? That said most of our BE opponents like to run and that lends itself to wide open, high scoring games, the kind we seem to like most". I don't recall saying Govan was a waste of a scholarship but I think his performance this year, especially over the past two weeks, speaks to what many on this Board felt about him. No need to bash him anymore. Finally, I will go back to my Akinjo threads and see if I can find the quote you posted. But I can't believe I posted that since I've been impressed by Akinjo since I saw him in Kenner. I think JT3, like all of us, has seen enough of Jesse Govan. Looks like he's our third string center behind Aguao and Hayes. Govan makes Roy Hibbert look graceful. What a waste of a scholarship. Sorry to everyone else on this thread who's trying to make scholarly discussion out of "woe is us", but getting labeled a troll for reminding someone how they react is just about the limit of my tolerance here.
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Mar 18, 2019 12:21:45 GMT -5
This is spot on... The Sports Reference site added the RSCI feature to its roster page which highlights the point Yaboy is making, only one player inside the top 40... www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/villanova/2016.htmlPlayer development, Player development, Player development!! How well PE & staff does in this area will have a big impact on how successful his time @ Gtown will be... They haven't gotten off to a great start with their 1st class, so the jury is still out on them imo... I have said before 50-150 is the range you want to be in. Those kids don't all come in with NBA dreams so they aren't as selfish and less likely to leave early. If they do leave early it's likely because the team has had a lot of success so that is fine. You want to constantly have "old" guys on your team and that leads to more consistent success. Bad 22 year old players are usually going to be better than good 18 year olds. Wright has created an unselfish culture which is tough to do in this day and age. That is why I think a guy like Quinnerly is struggling there. Oh and he realizes one of the most basic concepts of all, 3 is greater than 2.
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Mar 18, 2019 12:46:39 GMT -5
Good chance Hoyas are in next year's pre-season rankings, and at a minimum will be in the also receiving votes category.
The main issue with the Hoyas once BE play started was consistency, or the lack there of. But that is something that tends to come with experience, and next year our frosh core will have a year of college ball under their belts. We'll have to wait to see whether next year's team puts it all together, but Pat has given Hoya faithful real hope for a return to not only the NCAA tournament, but to sustained success.
And I am not at all concerned about not getting top 20 recruits (to this point). Nova won two national championships off of 4 star recruits. Gonzaga has become a national power off of internationals and transfers. Outside of Duke and Kentucky, no one has built a team successfully purely on one-and-dones, and even the UNCs and Kansas's of the world build their success off of guys who stay for a few years. Pat has 5 All BE Freshmen in two years, and that is no fluke. He knows what he is doing and has given the keys to his young guns. It was guards this year from outside the top 100 that began the turn around, and next year Pat gets his chance with centers outside the top 100 (and Yurt) who epitomize his style. Finding players who fit a system our style of play is far more important than getting top 50 recruits just for the sake of it.
Pat has a long way to go yet--but if you aren't encouraged by these first two seasons, then I don't know what to tell you.
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bamahoya11
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Post by bamahoya11 on Mar 18, 2019 13:08:34 GMT -5
I think I'm about to echo SD Hoya on many points, with a few observations.
First, Villanova basketball reminds me in so many ways of Alabama football. Villanova plays a remarkably disciplined style that depends on all five players playing together at one time. When they play at their best, Villanova's ball movement is uncanny. The players also understand their roles within the team, and a nucleus of older players always teaches the culture of winning to younger players. At the core, a culture of winning is really just a commitment to working hard and an expectation that focus and work will yield wins. Jay Wright also displays remarkable discipline in evaluating players and recruiting folks who fit his system. It wasn't always that way. He learned through trial and error.
Georgetown can do all these things. I'm actually quite bullish on the coming years. Right now, Ewing's biggest priority should be keeping this team fully intact. Over two years, Ewing has produced a remarkable five all-league caliber players. If he holds that team together, it's a formidable start on next year. Beyond that, Ewing just has to keep his players buying into his system. Ewing strikes me as someone who has never lacked for confidence. I think that's a strength. He just needs the people around him buying in, too.
There's a lot of good to this season. We are on our way. This season can be a stepping stone, or it can be a happy accident that recedes in coming years. I hope it's a stepping stone.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Mar 18, 2019 13:14:35 GMT -5
Where do I start? I never said Hoyas wouldn't win more than 4 BE games. Rather, I said, "I want to think we can finish 9-9 but our poor defense, especially on ball defense against opposing guards has me scared. If Cole and Williams can light us up for 52 what will the premier BE guards do to us? That said most of our BE opponents like to run and that lends itself to wide open, high scoring games, the kind we seem to like most". I don't recall saying Govan was a waste of a scholarship but I think his performance this year, especially over the past two weeks, speaks to what many on this Board felt about him. No need to bash him anymore. Finally, I will go back to my Akinjo threads and see if I can find the quote you posted. But I can't believe I posted that since I've been impressed by Akinjo since I saw him in Kenner. I think JT3, like all of us, has seen enough of Jesse Govan. Looks like he's our third string center behind Aguao and Hayes. Govan makes Roy Hibbert look graceful. What a waste of a scholarship. Sorry to everyone else on this thread who's trying to make scholarly discussion out of "woe is us", but getting labeled a troll for reminding someone how they react is just about the limit of my tolerance here. Are you kidding me? What you just did is the essence of trolldom. You went back three years!!! to find a statement I made about a then freshman Govan? I hope you feel better. Still waiting for the proof of me saying we'd only win 4 BE games this year or that Akinjo was a dud.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2019 14:01:19 GMT -5
Sorry to everyone else on this thread who's trying to make scholarly discussion out of "woe is us", but getting labeled a troll for reminding someone how they react is just about the limit of my tolerance here. Are you kidding me? What you just did is the essence of trolldom. You went back three years!!! to find a statement I made about a then freshman Govan? I hope you feel better. Still waiting for the proof of me saying we'd only win 4 BE games this year or that Akinjo was a dud. You called Jessie a waste of a scholarship. Aside from the fact that he ended up a 2x all conference player, that's a ridiculous thing to write about one of our players on a personal level. You think and write like a mercurial six year-old, and just because you wrote it two seasons ago doesn't mean everyone else shouldn't remember - even if you can't. You should be embarrassed, but something tells me you won't be. Either way I'm done with you.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Mar 18, 2019 14:08:59 GMT -5
Maybe we should just win more games. Glad I solved that.
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mdtd
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Post by mdtd on Mar 18, 2019 14:24:40 GMT -5
Simple. Win games, and recruit. Ewing can recruit and this team is talented. Just need to win, Nova will be good next year, but so will we. NCAA's are an expectation barring a significant turn of events. Just need to win games and win in March.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Mar 18, 2019 14:30:49 GMT -5
I feel like Pat is going after scrappy and gritty kids. This will help a great deal with defense and rebounding. You gotta want it.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Mar 18, 2019 14:43:28 GMT -5
Are you kidding me? What you just did is the essence of trolldom. You went back three years!!! to find a statement I made about a then freshman Govan? I hope you feel better. Still waiting for the proof of me saying we'd only win 4 BE games this year or that Akinjo was a dud. You called Jessie a waste of a scholarship. Aside from the fact that he ended up a 2x all conference player, that's a ridiculous thing to write about one of our players on a personal level. You think and write like a mercurial six year-old, and just because you wrote it two seasons ago doesn't mean everyone else shouldn't remember - even if you can't. You should be embarrassed, but something tells me you won't be. Either way I'm done with you. Again classic troll. Still waiting for the 4 BE game prediction or the Akinjo is a dud comment.
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madgesiq92
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Post by madgesiq92 on Mar 18, 2019 14:56:00 GMT -5
"Scrappy", "gritty", "work ethic" and "hustle" are all admirable traits---definitely should help with defense, loose balls and rebounding----any team could use more players like Jabril Trawick and Gene Smith.
But at the end of the day--PE is going to have to decide who we are on offense. We all cheered on James and Mac as they took over the game against Marquette. But small guards playing iso ball and hitting difficult shots is not going to produce an efficient or consistent offensive team---which is the recipe for sustainable success in college basketball. Ball movement in our half court sets was not good this year.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 18, 2019 15:55:58 GMT -5
Good chance Hoyas are in next year's pre-season rankings, and at a minimum will be in the also receiving votes category. The main issue with the Hoyas once BE play started was consistency, or the lack there of. But that is something that tends to come with experience, and next year our frosh core will have a year of college ball under their belts. We'll have to wait to see whether next year's team puts it all together, but Pat has given Hoya faithful real hope for a return to not only the NCAA tournament, but to sustained success. And I am not at all concerned about not getting top 20 recruits (to this point). Nova won two national championships off of 4 star recruits. Gonzaga has become a national power off of internationals and transfers. Outside of Duke and Kentucky, no one has built a team successfully purely on one-and-dones, and even the UNCs and Kansas's of the world build their success off of guys who stay for a few years. Pat has 5 All BE Freshmen in two years, and that is no fluke. He knows what he is doing and has given the keys to his young guns. It was guards this year from outside the top 100 that began the turn around, and next year Pat gets his chance with centers outside the top 100 (and Yurt) who epitomize his style. Finding players who fit a system our style of play is far more important than getting top 50 recruits just for the sake of it. Pat has a long way to go yet--but if you aren't encouraged by these first two seasons, then I don't know what to tell you. How would you grade Pickett & Blair in their sophomore seasons? Making the All BE frosh team is great but the recognition takes a hit if the player doesn't improve the next season...
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iowa80
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Post by iowa80 on Mar 18, 2019 16:08:53 GMT -5
I'd be willing to live and die with mostly local players, provided they were 50-150 (or better). If Josh LeBlanc or someone else comes, so much the better, but there is enough talent in this area to make us improved and to forge an identity, which we sorely lack. It might help put more of a non-student/alumni fan base in the seats as well. Why we aren't at least on the list of every good local player who can qualify is beyond me, and taking a pass on the Josh Harts of the world is nuts.
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Mar 18, 2019 16:51:36 GMT -5
Good chance Hoyas are in next year's pre-season rankings, and at a minimum will be in the also receiving votes category. The main issue with the Hoyas once BE play started was consistency, or the lack there of. But that is something that tends to come with experience, and next year our frosh core will have a year of college ball under their belts. We'll have to wait to see whether next year's team puts it all together, but Pat has given Hoya faithful real hope for a return to not only the NCAA tournament, but to sustained success. And I am not at all concerned about not getting top 20 recruits (to this point). Nova won two national championships off of 4 star recruits. Gonzaga has become a national power off of internationals and transfers. Outside of Duke and Kentucky, no one has built a team successfully purely on one-and-dones, and even the UNCs and Kansas's of the world build their success off of guys who stay for a few years. Pat has 5 All BE Freshmen in two years, and that is no fluke. He knows what he is doing and has given the keys to his young guns. It was guards this year from outside the top 100 that began the turn around, and next year Pat gets his chance with centers outside the top 100 (and Yurt) who epitomize his style. Finding players who fit a system our style of play is far more important than getting top 50 recruits just for the sake of it. Pat has a long way to go yet--but if you aren't encouraged by these first two seasons, then I don't know what to tell you. How would you grade Pickett & Blair in their sophomore seasons? Making the All BE frosh team is great but the recognition takes a hit if the player doesn't improve the next season... Its a valid point that neither became All BE performers (or anywhere close) this season. But to be fair to both, (1) Pickett did show clear improvement defensively--which was his big problem last year--but it seemed like some other off-court issues were affecting his ability to take the next step, and (2) Blair played so little this year that it is tough to fully assess him. It is certainly possible that LeMackinjo do not improve as sophomores, or do not improve as much as expected. But part of the reason Pickett and Blair shined as much as they did as freshmen was because outside of Doc and Jesse, there weren't any other options on offense--so (like LeMackinjo to a degree) they were given the opportunity to sink or swim. LeMackinjo played this season at a much higher level than Pickett/Blair did as freshmen, and each already have more complete games. Unlike Pickett/Blair, their roles will almost certainly not be diminished as sophomores. Although each can, and hopefully will, add more tools, the main thing they need to add is consistency. I am hopeful this will come with experience.
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Mar 18, 2019 18:43:32 GMT -5
How would you grade Pickett & Blair in their sophomore seasons? Making the All BE frosh team is great but the recognition takes a hit if the player doesn't improve the next season... Its a valid point that neither became All BE performers (or anywhere close) this season. But to be fair to both, (1) Pickett did show clear improvement defensively--which was his big problem last year--but it seemed like some other off-court issues were affecting his ability to take the next step, and (2) Blair played so little this year that it is tough to fully assess him. It is certainly possible that LeMackinjo do not improve as sophomores, or do not improve as much as expected. But part of the reason Pickett and Blair shined as much as they did as freshmen was because outside of Doc and Jesse, there weren't any other options on offense--so (like LeMackinjo to a degree) they were given the opportunity to sink or swim. LeMackinjo played this season at a much higher level than Pickett/Blair did as freshmen, and each already have more complete games. Unlike Pickett/Blair, their roles will almost certainly not be diminished as sophomores. Although each can, and hopefully will, add more tools, the main thing they need to add is consistency. I am hopeful this will come with experience. Since this fits with the original topic. Do you think Jamorko would be looked down upon like he is here if he played in Nova's system instead of Pat's? I feel like Jay Wright would figure out how to use the 6'8 wing that is a 36% 3 point shooter that has become a solid defender and nobody would complain. Don't get me wrong I don't think he had a great year, although I don't think he regressed like many here. I just think maybe this isn't the fit for him going forward although we all seem to want a wing shooter than can play D. I feel like the same could be said for Jessie but obviously we don't have to worry about him going forward.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Mar 18, 2019 18:54:07 GMT -5
My concern, and the reason for starting this thread, is that getting to where Nova is will require more than just a few talented recruits and a better OOC schedule. What impresses me most about Nova is how they keep the line moving. Sure we can probably make the tourney next year and maybe even win a BE championship along the way but can we put together a PROGRAM that will dominate the league consistently like Nova has since the beginning of the new BE? And if so what is the key. Look, we all thought after JT3 turned the program around that the success would just keep coming. And then it didn't. I think the next 2-3 years will tell the tale. I expect us to be successful but will we be able to build on that success to the degree Nova has?
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s4hoyas
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Post by s4hoyas on Mar 18, 2019 22:22:33 GMT -5
We have to recruit players who are not only athletic and skilled, but who will play harder and smarter than others... and who will buy into the team first concept while still flashing their individual skills...that's essentially what Villanova has done and it might not be a bad idea to follow that model.
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Mar 18, 2019 22:46:54 GMT -5
Its a valid point that neither became All BE performers (or anywhere close) this season. But to be fair to both, (1) Pickett did show clear improvement defensively--which was his big problem last year--but it seemed like some other off-court issues were affecting his ability to take the next step, and (2) Blair played so little this year that it is tough to fully assess him. It is certainly possible that LeMackinjo do not improve as sophomores, or do not improve as much as expected. But part of the reason Pickett and Blair shined as much as they did as freshmen was because outside of Doc and Jesse, there weren't any other options on offense--so (like LeMackinjo to a degree) they were given the opportunity to sink or swim. LeMackinjo played this season at a much higher level than Pickett/Blair did as freshmen, and each already have more complete games. Unlike Pickett/Blair, their roles will almost certainly not be diminished as sophomores. Although each can, and hopefully will, add more tools, the main thing they need to add is consistency. I am hopeful this will come with experience. Since this fits with the original topic. Do you think Jamorko would be looked down upon like he is here if he played in Nova's system instead of Pat's? I feel like Jay Wright would figure out how to use the 6'8 wing that is a 36% 3 point shooter that has become a solid defender and nobody would complain. Don't get me wrong I don't think he had a great year, although I don't think he regressed like many here. I just think maybe this isn't the fit for him going forward although we all seem to want a wing shooter than can play D. I feel like the same could be said for Jessie but obviously we don't have to worry about him going forward. I don’t know what the off-court issues were, but whatever that was seems to be to be the bigger issue than any problem with system fit or Ewing not using him correctly.
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