smokeyjack
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Post by smokeyjack on Nov 29, 2018 8:36:08 GMT -5
So, umm, are people just figuring out that we're not very good and have to get better? This performance really isn't substantially different than most of our games. Perhaps I'm the only one who didn't watch the Illinois game and think we were really good? So I can't say I'm super disappointed here because I know our defense is not good. But I have seen two decent improvements during this game: - This is the second straight game with few turnovers. The Campbell game was more impressive, but still ... 8 Turnovers! We never do that, no matter the opponent!
- There's a crew on here that likes to on Mac, but that's the other big progression from this game. He's now 4-9 from 3 in his last two games. He's got a foul call on a drive! He's getting to the rim on baskets and he will start hitting those. Only Akinjo brings that kind of dynamism, and it's something we will sorely need if we're going to be good.
I don't think we're going to see a "switch" at any time this year. It's going to be game by game, small improvements. Mac and Akinjo still make some questionable shot choices ... but has anyone noticed that they aren't really making dumb passing or dribble turnovers anymore. They've committed four turnovers amongst the two of them over the last two games. Hell, Mac has only 2 turnovers over the last four games. So yeah, the defense sucks. And offense is dependent on an absurdly efficient Jessie Govan right now, who can't possibly keep this level of performance up against taller and more athletic foes. But we've reduced TOs. We've completely added a dribble drive portion of the game. So not all is lost. On the defensive side of things, I also think people are being way too harsh on the freshmen guards here as well. Down low, Mourning and Govan were atrocious defensively. My issue is less the 12-26 from three and more the nearly 60% we let them shoot from 2. I get that Richmond is good at that ... but man, we simply do not affect shots at the rim (aside from LeBlanc). Josh WILL play more against better opponents, I am sure, but we also need Jessie to work harder here. He's never going to be great but he has to be better defensively in the future, because he's not going to be as good offensively in the future. Perimeter-wise ... this is how I see the defenders. Akinjo is very good when he locks up one on one with a guy who has the ball, but he loses guys off ball and struggles (like everyone) to get over screens. McClung. I wish he would get into a better stance and can be beat off the dribble more, but he's the best guard we have at closing out, stripping driving players and following guys off ball. Yes, I know the announcing staff got him on that one play, but he ball watches less than everyone else. He hasn't been beat backdoor all year while James has gotten beat five or six times. He's the only guy we have who can contest with his hops and runs guys off the line. Jagan. Great at drawing changes ... has been super lackadaisical this year on the perimeter. Just lazy contesting threes and I'm not sure why. Always seems hesitant to allow the drive. Pickett. Should be good. Was doing better. Clearly out of it this game due to lack of PT and didn't earn it once in. Tends to lose guys off ball all the time and over help on drives. Malinowksi. Plays angles well, uses his size and has a little ball hawk on the passes to the perimeter. But because of the latter, he lets his guys get open on the perimeter and is as guilty of leaving three point shooters open as any. He rebounds very well, but I don't see the defender others see. Blair. Playing much more conservatively this year. With Mac, seems to be the player who will use little tricks like heavily shading to the weak hand the most. Doesn't have the athleticism to be a plus defender, and like everyone, has lost guys from time to time. But to me, has shored up some of his biggest defensive deficiencies in terms of getting lost. The reality is that there's a few guys there with the tools. But even if they shore it up, you can't expect someone to contest tightly on outside shots AND keep the driver in front of them. As long as we have no one defending the rim, we have to give something up. So I don't expect it to get better unless Josh takes over and if Pickett -- who has the size to do so -- makes a bit of a leap. The latter is concerning given the trending. But if you roll out more effort for Govan, flank him with two long guys with high effort, suddenly Mac and Akinjo (and everyone else) are going to look a lot better. Good assessment overall but fundamentally missing the one thing that is starting to infuriate me about this team. Aside from IU game, they play with no fire. We just finished watching a decade of soulless, listless basketball. I’d rather watch a bunch of 2/3 stars slapping the floor and playing with their hair on fire than watch these guys sleepwalk through games. LeBlanc is the only guy on the team who plays like every possession might be his last. The only thing standing between us and a 30-pt win over Richmond was defensive effort. The collective defensive demeanor of this team sickens me. I could live with the myriad strategic blunders we’re making (jacking early triples when we have an absurd size adv, Akinjo committing brainless TOs in the last two minutes instead of milking clock), but the lack of fire is all on Ewing. Wasn’t that supposed to be what he was actually bringing to the table as a coach? I actually like a lot of the personnel, but our repeated lack of group intensity is a huge red flag for me re Ewing.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Nov 29, 2018 8:38:23 GMT -5
Having a hard time accepting more of a wait until next year attitude about this team. Definitely see improvement on offense and was particularly happy with the way McClung plays when not paired with Akinjo. Two kids that need to play on the ball to be at their best and one ball--not necessarily a good recipe. Love the improvement in Mosley in terms of helping to run the offense, but his limitations as a shooter will always make it hard to have him on the floor when points are needed. Likewise really impressed by the savvy and effort of Malinowski.
Ewing's comments about selfishness actually were the highlight of my night and gave me some hope that this team can be what I expected this year. Still I worry that Blair and Pickett are going to get discouraged by their lack of use and involvement and while I won't speculate as to why Blair was benched, I do find it hard to understand why Pickett is not in the offense more. His defense is much improved over last year and better than most on this team--a low bar, I know. But I watch him out on the wing, often with no defender within 5 feet and the ball movement-- or what passes for ball movement in this offense-- is entirely focused on going inside or quick shots by the freshmen guards. Gotta fix this because every team we play seems to be better at rotating the ball to the open man for the 3. This team cannot be good with a talent like Pickett on the bench or otherwise not involved in the game. I see no evidence that tis is an effort issue either and I have watched as closely as the television broadcast allows.
Finally for those who say this is all to be expected from the young guards, my response,borne out of my frustration, is that this team has several highly recruited kids, all of whom have spent years playing the game in very competitive programs, particularly at the AAU level. They are not playing Top 25 teams. Their coach is not a rookie but as we have heard many times is an experienced assistant long overdue for this opportunity, aided by another experienced former head coach and NBA player and yet the results do not reflect the level of talent that I believe is on this team.
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bostonfan
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Post by bostonfan on Nov 29, 2018 8:40:08 GMT -5
Only got to watch the second half the game last night. A few positives from the game. The offense seems much better and more confident and cohesive. They seem like they feel they can get a good shot every time down and have reduced the turnovers, hence the 90 points last night. My guess is this has ben a focus of the staff for the last few practices and the work seems to be paying off with much better offensive flow. Thought Jagan played really well and would like to see if he can find more minutes. Greg does not overwhelm anyone with his athleticism but he makes the right fundamental plays. I guess we will see how that translates once they start playing higher caliber athletes in the Big East, but for now he deserves the minutes he is getting. Jessie had 29 last night and continues to be a force on offense. The freshman backcourt continues to grow and improve and are taking better care of the ball. I expect they will still have a few tough games this season but overall it is going in the right direction. LeBlanc's energy/effort is impressive to watch.
Clearly a few negatives also. Blair not seeing the floor at all is concerning and hopefully that is not a bigger issue because the team needs his offense. Jamorko not being able to get more involved is frustrating because he is someone that I think can carry the team offensively if Jessie has a bad night but the last few games he has not been very involved/engaged. Trey works hard and is fundamentally sound but his lack of explosiveness is going to be a bigger problem as the season moves along into conference play. The overall defense was not good at all. The Hoyas now have enough athletes and depth to impose their will on a team like Richmond on the defensive end but they seemed to be very casual on defense last night and just hoped that Richmond would miss shots. They need to get more engaged and force the action on that end and hopefully create some turnovers. Maybe the focus has been on offense the last few practices and they were not dialed in/focused on defense, but that effort last night will not get it done in the Big East conference games. It almost seemed like they knew they could outscore Richmond and were not ever concerned about the outcome but defensive effort is a habit that the team needs to establish. I would think the focus will turn to defense for the next few practices and hopefully we see a more complete effort in the next game. I am still optimistic about this team, but there are enough red flags that is hard to be too confident at this point.
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Nov 29, 2018 8:53:22 GMT -5
Final Thoughts: The defense is bad The offense is humming so far this season Govan had a monster night with 29 pts and the back court of Akinjo and Clung scored a combined 29pts Malinlowski and Leblanc combined for 17pts off the bench Final Grade: C The team won, but Richmond is without its top 2 scorers and shot over 50% from the field and over 45% from 3pt land. Ewing has 1 game to make tweaks to the defense before heading to Syracuse. The defense is terrible. I expected much more defensively from Akinjo. Who do you see more of as a liability on the perimeter defense, Akinjo or McClung?
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Nov 29, 2018 9:05:20 GMT -5
Agree with much of this. My biggest issue is our interior defense, namely Mourning who couldn't defend or out jump me. Yeah, it's a freaking shame. Because he plays pretty smart. He has a pretty nice shot. He works hard inside. But he got his hops from his mother, presumably. If Trey could jump like Zo ... this wouldn't even be a question. And it's not to say he couldn't be a better defender as is; I'm sure he could. But holy crap, he really can't jump. I see exactly what you guys see. I also see that he’s a good facilitator and probably our best interior passer.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2018 9:12:50 GMT -5
My daughter left campus shortly after 7 when her last class ended and her Uber didn’t get to C1A until halftime. Not leaving campus until tip time because she had to go to class? You need to have a chat with that young lady about priorities, Dan...
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Nov 29, 2018 9:23:58 GMT -5
I guess Im more optimistic than others because I think the defense is fixable. A lot of the issue was just overcommitting on help or getting moved off screens to leave open 3s. I didnt see us have horrible rebounding problems, e.g.. We just simply let teams take too many wide open shots. I thought the offense looked great. That being said, it's still quite insane that teams dont play zone against us.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Nov 29, 2018 9:38:09 GMT -5
I guess Im more optimistic than others because I think the defense is fixable. A lot of the issue was just overcommitting on help or getting moved off screens to leave open 3s. I didnt see us have horrible rebounding problems, e.g.. We just simply let teams take too many wide open shots. I thought the offense looked great. That being said, it's still quite insane that teams dont play zone against us. I frankly fear how we are going to play against Syracuse in the Dome with 3 freshmen playing key roles. If we can't play a zone defense how do we practice against it in preparation for this game?
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 29, 2018 9:44:30 GMT -5
My daughter left campus shortly after 7 when her last class ended and her Uber didn’t get to C1A until halftime. Not leaving campus until tip time because she had to go to class? You need to have a chat with that young lady about priorities, Dan... Unfortunately this is my only offspring who gets p!ssed off if she does not get an A. In her defense, she’s been volunteering for Hoya Blue. Speaking of them,
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Nov 29, 2018 10:11:39 GMT -5
I guess I have not gotten into the season's giving mood yet, because I cannot give this team a pass for the way they played last night. Richmond was 2-4 having just lost to Hampton of the Big South by 20 points at home, they lose 2 of their top 3 scorers for this game and they come onto the Hoyas court and trail by only single digits for most of the night and put up 82 points??
My goal coming into this season was a 3 game improvement to 8-10 in the BE, maybe a little optimistic but we had 2 guys on last year's freshman all-BE team and returned one of the best players in the conference in Govan with a nice freshman class coming in. If we are struggling to guard these teams, what happens in the BE?
Frankly, it is surprising the expectations have gotten so low for Georgetown basketball that we are finding ways to explain away the fact this team has won only one game by double digits all season against a pretty trashy schedule and probably should have lost to USF. Like Coach Pat Ewing, I just expect more at this point. He sounded pretty angry last night, sat Blair and I was happy to see it. Sure we are inexperienced at key positions, but it is not like we have a bunch of 2 star players on the team that did not win big games in HS.
I guess I am hoping people's idea that we play down to our competition is correct and the better teams on the schedule will get the full attention of all our players.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Nov 29, 2018 10:24:32 GMT -5
Lateral D by our bigs is horrible. Cayo had his way with us and at halftime Ewing or another coach filled our guys in to lay off the kid on the perimeter. Frankly I would hope the players would figure that out on their own. Mac penetrating against the zone was really solid he just needs to make the simple play sometimes when he gets there. I like that and Jessie as our zone busters against Cuse. We are going to have to zone or rely on Leblanc against Brissett who will drive around Mourning too easily. We will need Jamarko & Jahvon shooting though along with Greg.
If I am Ewing, I might run some sets for Jamarko to get him going. It might be his build or his facial expressions but he isn't exactly picking it up on D to get his O going and that is what you would hope a young player who is finding his way would do.
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Nov 29, 2018 10:27:33 GMT -5
I guess I have not gotten into the season's giving mood yet, because I cannot give this team a pass for the way they played last night. Richmond was 2-4 having just lost to Hampton of the Big South by 20 points at home, they lose 2 of their top 3 scorers for this game and they come onto the Hoyas court and trail by only single digits for most of the night and put up 82 points?? My goal coming into this season was a 3 game improvement to 8-10 in the BE, maybe a little optimistic but we had 2 guys on last year's freshman all-BE team and returned one of the best players in the conference in Govan with a nice freshman class coming in. If we are struggling to guard these teams, what happens in the BE? Frankly, it is surprising the expectations have gotten so low for Georgetown basketball that we are finding ways to explain away the fact this team has won only one game by double digits all season against a pretty trashy schedule and probably should have lost to USF. Like Coach Pat Ewing, I just expect more at this point. He sounded pretty angry last night, sat Blair and I was happy to see it. Sure we are inexperienced at key positions, but it is not like we have a bunch of 2 star players on the team that did not win big games in HS. I guess I am hoping people's idea that we play down to our competition is correct and the better teams on the schedule will get the full attention of all our players. I mean, we did win the game. I understand the points but it’s lot odd to talk about expectations when you are criticizing the fact that we only won a game by 8.
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Nov 29, 2018 10:32:28 GMT -5
I guess I have not gotten into the season's giving mood yet, because I cannot give this team a pass for the way they played last night. Richmond was 2-4 having just lost to Hampton of the Big South by 20 points at home, they lose 2 of their top 3 scorers for this game and they come onto the Hoyas court and trail by only single digits for most of the night and put up 82 points?? My goal coming into this season was a 3 game improvement to 8-10 in the BE, maybe a little optimistic but we had 2 guys on last year's freshman all-BE team and returned one of the best players in the conference in Govan with a nice freshman class coming in. If we are struggling to guard these teams, what happens in the BE? Frankly, it is surprising the expectations have gotten so low for Georgetown basketball that we are finding ways to explain away the fact this team has won only one game by double digits all season against a pretty trashy schedule and probably should have lost to USF. Like Coach Pat Ewing, I just expect more at this point. He sounded pretty angry last night, sat Blair and I was happy to see it. Sure we are inexperienced at key positions, but it is not like we have a bunch of 2 star players on the team that did not win big games in HS. I guess I am hoping people's idea that we play down to our competition is correct and the better teams on the schedule will get the full attention of all our players. I mean, we did win the game. I understand the points but it’s lot odd to talk about expectations when you are criticizing the fact that we only won a game by 8. Agree it is probably a little more of a culmination of what I have watched this season that is influencing me, the overall play against the level of competition is my biggest concern. Liberty genuinely concerns me and I never thought that would be the case this season.
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Post by tribeninerhoya on Nov 29, 2018 10:39:11 GMT -5
I'm going to take a slightly different approach than a lot of people here (and it will likely be unpopular)- I was disappointed with Govan's defense and his rebounding last night (loved the offensive output, obviously). There were several times I didn't think he helped well on drives (which causes perimeter defenders to have to hedge toward the lane knowing they aren't going to get sufficient help, weakening the perimeter defense), and I noticed several times where he didn't get his hands up or jump for rebounds. It was streaky, but I noted it several times.
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Nov 29, 2018 10:39:38 GMT -5
I think Liberty concerns you because they are probably not that much worse than we are. I dont think this has been an issue of playing to the level of competition. I just think we are not that much better than these teams. As others said, I think we are all misinterpreting the Illinois game. They were pretty bad.
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Nov 29, 2018 10:40:19 GMT -5
I'm going to take a slightly different approach than a lot of people here (and it will likely be unpopular)- I was disappointed with Govan's defense and his rebounding last night (loved the offensive output, obviously). There were several times I didn't think he helped well on drives (which causes perimeter defenders to have to hedge toward the lane more knowing they aren't going to get sufficient help, weakening the perimeter defense), and I notice several times where he didn't get his hands up or jump for rebounds. It was streaky, but I noted it several times. I dont think that is unpopular. He was pretty bad defensively. Everyone was.
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smokeyjack
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Post by smokeyjack on Nov 29, 2018 11:34:38 GMT -5
Yeah, it's a freaking shame. Because he plays pretty smart. He has a pretty nice shot. He works hard inside. But he got his hops from his mother, presumably. If Trey could jump like Zo ... this wouldn't even be a question. And it's not to say he couldn't be a better defender as is; I'm sure he could. But holy crap, he really can't jump. I see exactly what you guys see. I also see that he’s a good facilitator and probably our best interior passer. Trey is a scary -poor athlete given his gene pool. He was blocked twice last night by a set-shooting guard. He just isn't a D1 starter, and he is going to be absolutely shattered defensively by every decent frontcourt we see this season. We already give up a ton in the frontcourt with Jess defensively; as good as he is on the offensive end, Govan is just above dreadful defensively. Mourning is indescribable on that end of the floor; literally you could go to any Y and find 5 guys who could work him over on that end. I know he's a good kid who has paid his dues, but we have to find ways to give as many of his minutes as possible to LeBlanc, Kaleb and even Carter. That's not even going small, because Mourning plays like he's 6-4. On the positive end, Mourning does help on the offensive end, especially against the zones which are going to be standard fare for us this season because he passes well and understands the game and how to attack a zone (along with only Govan it seems). Once again, the fact that our coach hasn't focused on attacking a zone in three decades wouldn't terrify me nearly as much if his team played with urgency and fire. They don't. Period. Mistakes and youth are forgivable; this lackluster effort really is not. You can love messy and hungry. Not much to love about this group collectively right now. When I think of them, I think of Pickett slouch-pouting beneath the scorer's table. That's who we are right now. Unless that changes, this team is going to get crushed even by a severely depressed Big East this season. Red flags. Lots of red flags.
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hoopsmccan
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Post by hoopsmccan on Nov 29, 2018 12:52:56 GMT -5
I see exactly what you guys see. I also see that he’s a good facilitator and probably our best interior passer. Trey is a scary -poor athlete given his gene pool. He was blocked twice last night by a set-shooting guard. He just isn't a D1 starter, and he is going to be absolutely shattered defensively by every decent frontcourt we see this season. We already give up a ton in the frontcourt with Jess defensively; as good as he is on the offensive end, Govan is just above dreadful defensively. Mourning is indescribable on that end of the floor; literally you could go to any Y and find 5 guys who could work him over on that end. I know he's a good kid who has paid his dues, but we have to find ways to give as many of his minutes as possible to LeBlanc, Kaleb and even Carter. That's not even going small, because Mourning plays like he's 6-4. On the positive end, Mourning does help on the offensive end, especially against the zones which are going to be standard fare for us this season because he passes well and understands the game and how to attack a zone (along with only Govan it seems). Once again, the fact that our coach hasn't focused on attacking a zone in three decades wouldn't terrify me nearly as much if his team played with urgency and fire. They don't. Period. Mistakes and youth are forgivable; this lackluster effort really is not. Re: Mourning - he is why development/playing time matters. He didn't play high level hs basketball, so his size was probably enough there, and didn't play for years with us. He is a smart player and with some experience (and coaching), he might have developed some tricks to help mitigate his lack of athleticism. While maybe never destined to be a 'plus' defender, I'd take a crafty 'neutral' defender to go with his positives on the offense side of the ball. hm
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smokeyjack
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Post by smokeyjack on Nov 29, 2018 13:07:52 GMT -5
If Trey is a “neutral” defender, I’d hate to see a minus one.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Nov 29, 2018 13:19:22 GMT -5
I'm going to take a slightly different approach than a lot of people here (and it will likely be unpopular)- I was disappointed with Govan's defense and his rebounding last night (loved the offensive output, obviously). There were several times I didn't think he helped well on drives (which causes perimeter defenders to have to hedge toward the lane more knowing they aren't going to get sufficient help, weakening the perimeter defense), and I notice several times where he didn't get his hands up or jump for rebounds. It was streaky, but I noted it several times. I dont think that is unpopular. He was pretty bad defensively. Everyone was. I agree but my point in all of this discussion is that we should be better than this. Pickett, Akinjo, LeBlanc and Govan came as highly touted prospects. Each has shown skills to warrant those credentials. Blair improved over the course of last year and earned a spot on the All Freshman team. Mosley was highly regarded from a great high school program and coach. Malinowski is clearly a talented shooter. Finally, McCLung though listed as a 3* recruit has demonstrated both the athleticism and the talent to play against much higher ranked players. The coach is well-regarded by other successful coaches and received glowing reviews from those for whom he worked for 15 years. He added an experienced bench coach in Louis Orr. Collectively this group should be much better than a mediocre Richmond team missing 2 of its 3 best players or an average USF team or even an Illinois team that missed one of its best players. They should have been able to play with Loyola, a team that is decent but nothing special. For whatever, reason--and I do not pretend to know why--the final product on the floor is not what it should be at this point. I am as loyal as anyone on this site and I was anticipating a finish this year of top half of the BE. While all that is still possible it is going to have to take some major improvement at this point in time because having watched every other BE team now at least twice, I think the Hoyas are lagging.
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