hoyajinx
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by hoyajinx on Nov 3, 2021 13:09:38 GMT -5
I don't know what "losing strategy" means. But, we both know that when you stated, "education," and, "defending parents," we're talking about critical race theory. Yep I said it played a role. I’m sure you would contend CRT is completely made up though right? In regards to the losing strategy, the Democrat tactic of labeling everything and everyone they disagree with as racist is clearly not a winning one. Not sure how they expect to win any votes with that strategy so I’ll be partially happy (but still mostly disturbed) when they continue to step on that rake. Critical Race Theory is certainly not made up. The idea that graduate level critical theory is being taught to elementary school students is made up. Lumping any discussion of race as Critical Race Theory is at best a fundamental misunderstanding of it, at worst, an outright lie. It’s deflective and reductive so conservatives can shut down ANY honest discussion about race. It’s so transparent it would be laughable if so many people didn’t believe this big, bad boogeyman stalking their kids were actually true. |
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1789
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by 1789 on Nov 3, 2021 14:11:35 GMT -5
Definitely a good night for the Republicans. They should be happy. Now it's time to deliver.
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Nov 3, 2021 14:19:36 GMT -5
NPR Interview with Stuart Stevens, Aug. 11, 2020
DAVIES: You wrote in a New York Times piece that kind of was spinning off of the book that racism is the original sin of the modern Republican Party. What do you mean?
STEVENS: Well, you know, if you go back to Eisenhower in 1956, he got almost 40% of the African American vote. That fell off a cliff with Goldwater in '64 to 7%. Now at the time, you could make the case that African Americans, after the Civil Rights Act was passed, would come back to the party - commonality of conservative culture, faith in the public square, entrepreneurship. That never happened. And as a result, since 1964, the party has failed completely, for the most part, to appeal to African Americans.
We used to talk about this as a failure and admit it was a failure and talk about a big (unintelligible). Ken Mehlman, who was chairman of the Republican Party in 2005, went to the NAACP and apologized for Nixon's Southern strategy, trying to divide African Americans from the Democratic Party. Now we don't. We just settled into this comfortableness of white grievance. And I think it's pretty clear that in this struggle between what the party would be, that the party that believes it should be a white-grievance party has emerged as dominant.
Mother Jones Interview:
The Republican Party Is Racist and Soulless. Just Ask This Veteran GOP Strategist.
Stuart Stevens says he now realizes the hatred and bigotry of Trumpism were always at the heart of the GOP.
DAVID CORN
SEPTEMBER/OCTOBER 2020 ISSUE
Asked if the Republican Party in the Trump years has become an outfit free of governing ideas, Stevens went even further: “It was all a lie.” He noted that this was word-for-word the title of his forthcoming book, It Was All a Lie: How the Republican Party Became Donald Trump. The modern GOP, he said, never truly cared about the ideas it claimed to care about
Throughout his decades as a Republican, Stevens considered this racist element a bug in the system. He now realizes it has been a feature.
Stevens, an erudite fellow who is also a novelist and a travel writer, has become an emblematic ex-Republican. He once believed in GOP ideals and ideas. Now he saw it all as a huge con. His new book is a confession and cri de coeur. The first line is blunt: “I have no one to blame but myself.” In these pages, Stevens self-flagellates, calling himself a “fool” for his decades of believing—and lying to himself—that the Republican Party was based on “a core set of values.” Acknowledging his role, Stevens writes, “So yes, blame me. Blame me when you look around and see a dysfunctional political system and a Republican Party that has gone insane.” The book offers one overarching prescription for the GOP: “Burn it to the ground and start over.”
In our conversation, Stevens exploded with loathing for the party he once faithfully (and lucratively) served. He rejected the common view that Trump had hijacked the GOP. No, he explained, the triumph of know-nothing Trumpism marked the culmination of an internal conflict that had existed for decades between the party’s “dark side” and its professed ideals. Even William F. Buckley Jr., often hailed as a grand public intellectual and the founding father of the modern conservative movement, was “a stone-cold racist” in the 1950s, Stevens pointed out. (Buckley at that time considered white people more “advanced” and more fit to govern.)
“A lot of us in the party liked to believe the dark side was a recessive gene, but it’s a dominant theme,” Stevens, a seventh-generation Mississippian who was named for Confederate Gen. Jeb Stuart, told me. “And it’s all about race. The Republican Party is a white party and there still are more white people than non-white people.” So that is whom the party aims at—even if this will eventually be a losing proposition as the nation’s demographics continue to shift. Ronald Reagan achieved a landslide victory in 1980 by bagging 56 percent of white voters; 28 years later, John McCain lost with 55 percent of white voters. Perhaps the party’s fixation on white voters can work one more time with Trump in 2020. “But we’re talking about the Confederacy—literally,” Stevens said.
McAuliffe is and was a terrible candidate. He won in 2013 because the GOP nominated a total nut in Ken Cuccinelli. Youngkin is not a total nut but was very skillful in the dog whistles to the racist GOP base with his cynical adoption of "election integrity" as his code word for the Big Lie and CRT for sub rosa racism. He is an accomplished liar (using a culture war enhanced by disinformation) but that is one of the defining qualities of MAGA GOPers.
Not all Republicans are racists but it sure seems that all racists sure have an affinity for the " Republican" Party/Cult. Why is that?
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by DFW HOYA on Nov 3, 2021 15:36:25 GMT -5
“A lot of us in the party liked to believe the dark side was a recessive gene, but it’s a dominant theme,” Stevens, a seventh-generation Mississippian who was named for Confederate Gen. Jeb Stuart, told me. “And it’s all about race. The Republican Party is a white party and there still are more white people than non-white people.” So that is whom the party aims at—even if this will eventually be a losing proposition as the nation’s demographics continue to shift. Ronald Reagan achieved a landslide victory in 1980 by bagging 56 percent of white voters; 28 years later, John McCain lost with 55 percent of white voters. Perhaps the party’s fixation on white voters can work one more time with Trump in 2020. “But we’re talking about the Confederacy—literally,” Stevens said. Retracting this post because this argument leads nowhere. If there is not discussion it's just shouting. |
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Nov 3, 2021 15:47:33 GMT -5
“A lot of us in the party liked to believe the dark side was a recessive gene, but it’s a dominant theme,” Stevens, a seventh-generation Mississippian who was named for Confederate Gen. Jeb Stuart, told me. “And it’s all about race. The Republican Party is a white party and there still are more white people than non-white people.” So that is whom the party aims at—even if this will eventually be a losing proposition as the nation’s demographics continue to shift. Ronald Reagan achieved a landslide victory in 1980 by bagging 56 percent of white voters; 28 years later, John McCain lost with 55 percent of white voters. Perhaps the party’s fixation on white voters can work one more time with Trump in 2020. “But we’re talking about the Confederacy—literally,” Stevens said. Retracting this post because this argument leads nowhere. If there is not discussion it's just shouting. Mother Jones is quoting Stuart Stevens so what am I missing? What's your opinion on Stevens's opinion and assessment of his own party? Not your opinion on the magazine. None of you HoyaTalk "Repblicans" ever engage in the question asked. Is he just bitter because he is an "establishment" Republican or is confessing how he's been fooled for decades or perhaps engaged in self-deception. I've had this discussion before about the Dixiecrats. It's as meaningless as proclaiming the voter-suppressing MAGA GOP as the Party of Lincoln. What do you think of Stevens's admission/confession? Anything? I once declared the civil war in the GOP was over (Jan. 30th, 2021 post-insurrection) and you replied no war is over in ten days. Where is your party/cult now? Youngkin had to kiss the sociopath's butt just enough to avoid alienating the base of your party/cult. |
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SSHoya
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"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Nov 3, 2021 15:57:19 GMT -5
Retracting this post because this argument leads nowhere. If there is not discussion it's just shouting. WFB - POLITICO, May 2017 in an article arguing he changed his opinion. . . “Why the South Must Prevail” is shocking to the 21st century reader. The piece put National Review on record in favor of both legal segregation where it existed (in accordance with the “states’ rights” principle) and the right of southern whites to discriminate against southern blacks, on the basis of their “Negro backwardness.” The editorial defended the right of whites to govern exclusively, even in jurisdictions where they did not constitute a majority of the population. In the same op-ed, Buckley concluded that as long as African Americans remained “backward” in education and in economic progress, Southern whites had a right to “impose superior mores for whatever period it takes to affect a genuine cultural equality between the races.” In defense of his position that whites, for the time being, remained the “more advanced race,” Buckley pointed to the name a major civil rights organization, The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People had adopted for itself as evidence that its founders considered its constituents “less advanced.” He offered no guidance as to how blacks might attain what he called “cultural equality,” save for by the sufferance of the white population. |
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SSHoya
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"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Nov 3, 2021 15:59:30 GMT -5
STUART STEVENS, who has gone from running Mitt Romney’s campaign for president in 2012 to a perch as a leading Never Trumper, is out with a new book: his mea culpa of sorts, “It Was All a Lie: How the Republican Party Became Donald Trump.” Some of Stevens’s former colleagues don’t like it, and one of them, Matthew Scully, savaged it in National Review. “Perhaps the most devastating book review you’ll ever read,” National Review editor Rich Lowry promised. Scully might want to take a dive through the archives of his own magazine before offering such a definitive judgment. A review of that record shows there is no doubt which side of history Buckley placed himself on. Now, he stands athwart it with Trump, like it or not. Stevens, if anything, was being too polite. theintercept.com/2020/07/05/national-review-william-buckley-racism/ |
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Nov 3, 2021 16:07:45 GMT -5
Retracting this post because this argument leads nowhere. If there is not discussion it's just shouting. And I suppose the sociopath is a "populist" not a racist? |
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by TC on Nov 3, 2021 16:18:55 GMT -5
Retracting this post because this argument leads nowhere. If there is not discussion it's just shouting. This is an absurdly dishonest paragraph, starting with the first sentence that blames Mother Jones, a newsmagazine started in 1976, for 90 years of Jim Crow by people who would all be Republicans today, as Republicans today try to reinstitute Jim Crow. |
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by DFW HOYA on Nov 3, 2021 16:22:05 GMT -5
Neither party can govern in its current configurations. If the Democrats are nothing more than the "Smart City" party, it will not win elections beyond the cities. If the Republicans are nothing more than the "God's Country" party, it will not win elections within the cities. Their fealty to the House of Trump is corrosive and their deference to white nationalism which will lead to violence.
All this mess doesn't even to begin to describe the tacit tolerance of the tin-foil set, like the people which flew into the local area yesterday and waited in the rain for JFK Jr. to appear on the Grassy Knoll to announce he's running for Vice President with the Mob Boss in 2024. (They also claimed that JFK Jr. would be the opening act for the Rolling Stones Tuesday night at the Cotton Bowl. Didn't happen.)
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Nov 3, 2021 16:31:36 GMT -5
Democrats can't get out of their own way. They don't realize politics is what hits you in the "gut" - the White grievance of the GOP is a "gut" reaction. The fear that animates GOPers is a "gut" reaction as the country changes demographicallly. That's why the GOP will lie, cheat and steal to maintain power.
Dems seem to think that actual governing or attempting to do so is enough. Their ability to dissemble like the GOP is not developed enough.
Basically, we're screwed as a country. Only one party believes in American democracy.
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by tashoya on Nov 3, 2021 19:28:36 GMT -5
Democrats can't get out of their own way. They don't realize politics is what hits you in the "gut" - the White grievance of the GOP is a "gut" reaction. The fear that animates GOPers is a "gut" reaction as the country changes demographicallly. That's why the GOP will lie, cheat and steal to maintain power. Dems seem to think that actual governing or attempting to do so is enough. Their ability to dissemble like the GOP is not developed enough. Basically, we're screwed as a country. Only one party believes in American democracy.They've gone so far as to redefine the word, "patriot." They consider actively dismantling American democracy patriotic at this point. No wonder they support things like trying to keep certain groups from voting or undermining entire elections. |
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Nov 3, 2021 19:33:04 GMT -5
I don't know what "losing strategy" means. But, we both know that when you stated, "education," and, "defending parents," we're talking about critical race theory. Yep I said it played a role. I’m sure you would contend CRT is completely made up though right? In regards to the losing strategy, the Democrat tactic of labeling everything and everyone they disagree with as racist is clearly not a winning one. Not sure how they expect to win any votes with that strategy so I’ll be partially happy (but still mostly disturbed) when they continue to step on that rake. It's beyond me why you'd be "sure" I would contend that CRT is completely made up. In fact, I don't even know what you're trying to say. Regardless, I said that Youngkin ran on racism (with just enough of a nod to the Trump BS) and that he won by doing so. I don't think there's much to be celebrated in that regard, regardless of one's political affiliations/leanings. But, I hope you enjoy your rum and your cigar. |
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hoyajinx
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by hoyajinx on Nov 3, 2021 19:49:01 GMT -5
Yep I said it played a role. I’m sure you would contend CRT is completely made up though right? Maybe you could define it for us and explain where it's being taught in Virginia public schools so we can understand the problem. Unsurprisingly, these questions have stopped the discussion. When pressed, Republicans simply cannot define what Critical Race Theory is and where or how it’s being taught with any degree of specificity. I’m not unconvinced that they simply regurgitate Fox News talking points without having the faintest idea about the actual ins-and-outs of their core culture war issues. |
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Nov 3, 2021 19:55:17 GMT -5
Maybe you could define it for us and explain where it's being taught in Virginia public schools so we can understand the problem. Unsurprisingly, these questions have stopped the discussion. When pressed, Republicans simply cannot define what Critical Race Theory is and where or how it’s being taught with any degree of specificity. I’m not unconvinced that they simply regurgitate Fox News talking points without having the faintest idea about the actual ins-and-outs of their core culture war issues. Nor can any one of them offer a substantive response to Stuart Stevens's mea culpa. |
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Post by hoyaatheart55 on Nov 3, 2021 22:02:16 GMT -5
Yep I said it played a role. I’m sure you would contend CRT is completely made up though right? In regards to the losing strategy, the Democrat tactic of labeling everything and everyone they disagree with as racist is clearly not a winning one. Not sure how they expect to win any votes with that strategy so I’ll be partially happy (but still mostly disturbed) when they continue to step on that rake. It's beyond me why you'd be "sure" I would contend that CRT is completely made up. In fact, I don't even know what you're trying to say. Regardless, I said that Youngkin ran on racism (with just enough of a nod to the Trump BS) and that he won by doing so. I don't think there's much to be celebrated in that regard, regardless of one's political affiliations/leanings. But, I hope you enjoy your rum and your cigar. Right well you can say that’s what you believe he ran on all you want, that doesn’t make it true. That’s just your opinion and in my opinion, it is one that is not rooted in fact. If Virginians like myself voted for Glen Youngkin because we support his “racist” platform, you’ll have to explain why we also voted in the first black woman Lt. Governor and a Cuban American Attorney General. Seems like we’re pretty lousy at this racism thing. Just to clear it up for you, I voted for the aforementioned three because I believe in conservative values. So thank you because I did in fact enjoy my cigar and rum. |
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Post by hoyaatheart55 on Nov 3, 2021 23:02:16 GMT -5
Yep I said it played a role. I’m sure you would contend CRT is completely made up though right? Maybe you could define it for us and explain where it's being taught in Virginia public schools so we can understand the problem. I’ve acknowledged that it certainly played a role in this election. Perhaps a big role. I never said it was a highly ranked issue for me. I’m happy to be a dictionary for you guys but I really don’t see the point in the exercise. I certainly don’t expect to change anybody’s mind here. |
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Nov 4, 2021 4:49:18 GMT -5
It's beyond me why you'd be "sure" I would contend that CRT is completely made up. In fact, I don't even know what you're trying to say. Regardless, I said that Youngkin ran on racism (with just enough of a nod to the Trump BS) and that he won by doing so. I don't think there's much to be celebrated in that regard, regardless of one's political affiliations/leanings. But, I hope you enjoy your rum and your cigar. Right well you can say that’s what you believe he ran on all you want, that doesn’t make it true. That’s just your opinion and in my opinion, it is one that is not rooted in fact. If Virginians like myself voted for Glen Youngkin because we support his “racist” platform, you’ll have to explain why we also voted in the first black woman Lt. Governor and a Cuban American Attorney General. Seems like we’re pretty lousy at this racism thing. Just to clear it up for you, I voted for the aforementioned three because I believe in conservative values. So thank you because I did in fact enjoy my cigar and rum. I remember in the late 1960s the use of the phrase, "Some of my best friends are Black [or Jewish]". It has apparently been revived. Having a Black woman and Cuban running for office is the MAGA GOP's version of this phrase in action to attempt to insulate itself from the core racist base of the MAGA GOP. Running that ad about objections to "Beloved" - that wasn't Youngkin running on a racist dogwhistle? thehill.com/homenews/campaign/578408-youngkin-features-mother-who-pushed-to-have-beloved-banned-from-sonsAnd on "day one" Youngkin claimed he was going to ban CRT from Virginia schools - how's that possible since it isn't taught in Virginia schools K -12. I remember when critical legal studies evolved when I was in law school in the 1970s and that is the basis of CRT but it is clearly an analytical method neither taught nor used below the college level. What's your response to Stuart Stevens. if any? DFW HOYA had none. Is lying part of "conservative" values? A 2004 study in Basic and Applied Social Psychology listed the phrase as a "common [claim of] innocence by association".[8] A 2011 study published in the Journal of Black Studies suggested that African Americans were rarely impressed by whites claiming to have "Black friends", and that the claim was more likely to make African Americans think that the person making it was in fact more, not less, prejudiced.[9] The phrase is cited as an instance of "resistance to antiracist thinking",[10] and some suggestions for dismantling the logic of the phrase include "it is like saying there is no such thing as sexism because we all have a close friend or family member who is a woman". en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/I%27m_not_racist,_I_have_black_friends |
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Nov 4, 2021 5:10:06 GMT -5
I said McAuliffe was a terrible candidate. But sometimes, a candidate’s blunder or miscalculation really does matter. The freshest example was the disastrous declaration by Democrat Terry McAuliffe, the former governor of Virginia who fell short in his bid to regain his old job. “I don’t think parents should be telling schools what they should teach,” he said in his second and final debate with GOP nominee Glenn Youngkin. His comment came after Youngkin criticized McAuliffe for having vetoed a bill that would have allowed parents to opt their children out of certain reading assignments. McAuliffe’s gaffe ignited a spectacular display of the demagoguery — and racist signaling — that has accompanied the right’s campaign against the phantom menace of critical race theory, an academic construct that is not even part of Virginia’s K-12 curriculum and is separate from laudable, overdue efforts to assure that students receive an honest and full picture of how race has factored in the country’s history. www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/11/03/mcauliffe-ended-up-dancing-youngkins-choreography/ |
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hoyajinx
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by hoyajinx on Nov 4, 2021 5:23:45 GMT -5
I said McAuliffe was a terrible candidate. But sometimes, a candidate’s blunder or miscalculation really does matter. The freshest example was the disastrous declaration by Democrat Terry McAuliffe, the former governor of Virginia who fell short in his bid to regain his old job. “I don’t think parents should be telling schools what they should teach,” he said in his second and final debate with GOP nominee Glenn Youngkin. His comment came after Youngkin criticized McAuliffe for having vetoed a bill that would have allowed parents to opt their children out of certain reading assignments. McAuliffe’s gaffe ignited a spectacular display of the demagoguery — and racist signaling — that has accompanied the right’s campaign against the phantom menace of critical race theory, an academic construct that is not even part of Virginia’s K-12 curriculum and is separate from laudable, overdue efforts to assure that students receive an honest and full picture of how race has factored in the country’s history. www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/11/03/mcauliffe-ended-up-dancing-youngkins-choreography/To be fair, I don’t think parents should be telling public schools what they should teach. I’m not even sure how that would work. For every parent that doesn’t want a discussion of race in the classroom as it pertains to US history or even world history, there is a parent who thinks it should be part of the curriculum. If a parent wants to exercise full control of their kid’s education, they are more than welcome to home school them. |
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