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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2020 10:05:14 GMT -5
Why can't we play two centers when Ryan gets here? Tim can still get his time too. I really don't see no problems at all. When Ryan gets here, we could have him stretch the floor and play inside (which I think he will be very good at) and have Q banging inside. A potential starting lineup could be: C Mutombo C Q SF Sibley SG Mohammed/Riley PG Riley/Beard Insert Riley at either the backup to Mohammed (if Mohammed chooses to come to Gtown) at the shooting guard position or pencil him in at the starting point guard (if Mohammed chooses Gtown). If Mohammed chooses another school. Pencil in Beard at the starting point guard position and Riley at the starting shooting guard position. Yep, they did it back in the day with his pops and Zo. Was just talking about this. You can go different combinations of twin towers the whole game |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2020 10:14:16 GMT -5
Man can you imagine a Patrick Ewing type and a Hakeem Olajuwan type in the starting line up at the same time? Well that's what you would get from Mutombo and Q in the line up at the same time as both guys model their games or their games are similar to the two most dominant college big men of all time! I'm excited!!
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Oct 5, 2020 10:39:16 GMT -5
We should have all known Ryan was committing to Georgetown when he took a typical Georgetown drop in the recruiting rankings this summer.  247: 35th -> 71st Rivals: 87th -> 108th Joking aside, I'm excited that he chose Georgetown and I can't wait to see how he develops as a player and a person while on campus. |
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Post by tribeninerhoya on Oct 5, 2020 10:41:02 GMT -5
Huge. #14 class in the nation. Aminu would push us into the top 10 According to the 247 Class Calculator, an Aminu commitment would push us into 3rd in the country (right now, at least). |
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Post by RockawayHoya on Oct 5, 2020 10:45:42 GMT -5
Why can't we play two centers when Ryan gets here? Tim can still get his time too. I really don't see no problems at all. When Ryan gets here, we could have him stretch the floor and play inside (which I think he will be very good at) and have Q banging inside. A potential starting lineup could be: C Mutombo C Q SF Sibley SG Mohammed/Riley PG Riley/Beard Insert Riley at either the backup to Mohammed (if Mohammed chooses to come to Gtown) at the shooting guard position or pencil him in at the starting point guard (if Mohammed chooses Gtown). If Mohammed chooses another school. Pencil in Beard at the starting point guard position and Riley at the starting shooting guard position. Issue with playing 2 bigs is figuring out how two guys with limited range can stay out of each other's way in the paint. Q's range may be a little bit improved this offseason and upcoming season with some work but he still has a long way to go before he can be considered automatic from anything inside 15 feet. Bigger issue is how do 2 bigs survive in the current defensive scheme we employ. We have a hard enough time with rotations, closing out on shooters, staying in front of dribble penetration, etc. It may help overall on the glass and rim protection, but unless the scheme changes or we get some rapid improvement in cleaning up our current weaknesses using the current scheme, we are going to be conceding even more open 3s than we currently do, which is a scary thought. All that being said, I'd love being able to throw 2 bigs on the floor at the same time. I just think we need a considerable shift in defensive philosophy that the staff has shown to be unwilling/unable to make, at least so far. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2020 10:56:20 GMT -5
Why can't we play two centers when Ryan gets here? Tim can still get his time too. I really don't see no problems at all. When Ryan gets here, we could have him stretch the floor and play inside (which I think he will be very good at) and have Q banging inside. A potential starting lineup could be: C Mutombo C Q SF Sibley SG Mohammed/Riley PG Riley/Beard Insert Riley at either the backup to Mohammed (if Mohammed chooses to come to Gtown) at the shooting guard position or pencil him in at the starting point guard (if Mohammed chooses Gtown). If Mohammed chooses another school. Pencil in Beard at the starting point guard position and Riley at the starting shooting guard position. Issue with playing 2 bigs is figuring out how two guys with limited range can stay out of each other's way in the paint. Q's range may be a little bit improved this offseason and upcoming season with some work but he still has a long way to go before he can be considered automatic from anything inside 15 feet. Bigger issue is how do 2 bigs survive in the current defensive scheme we employ. We have a hard enough time with rotations, closing out on shooters, staying in front of dribble penetration, etc. It may help overall on the glass and rim protection, but unless the scheme changes or we get some rapid improvement in cleaning up our current weaknesses using the current scheme, we are going to be conceding even more open 3s than we currently do, which is a scary thought. All that being said, I'd love being able to throw 2 bigs on the floor at the same time. I just think we need a considerable shift in defensive philosophy that the staff has shown to be unwilling/unable to make, at least so far. I appreciate your contribution but you do realize I am talking about 21 kids, right? OR should I say I am talking about the kids that will be playing from 21 and beyond. In other words, I am not talking about the kids we have on the team now. The kids that will be playing with us from 21 and beyond are much more athletic. Also, I am talking about two centers (not five centers). The other three guys will be wing players. And to be honest with you, Ryan at this point can play the power forward. So just scratch the C from Mutombo and substitute PF instead and you're good. Last but not least, look at the Lakers team when they have both Davis and Howard on the floor and then add Lebron. I think they handled the big men problem quite well given the smaller teams they've played against in the playoffs and have easily defeated them. |
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Post by RockawayHoya on Oct 5, 2020 11:06:35 GMT -5
Issue with playing 2 bigs is figuring out how two guys with limited range can stay out of each other's way in the paint. Q's range may be a little bit improved this offseason and upcoming season with some work but he still has a long way to go before he can be considered automatic from anything inside 15 feet. Bigger issue is how do 2 bigs survive in the current defensive scheme we employ. We have a hard enough time with rotations, closing out on shooters, staying in front of dribble penetration, etc. It may help overall on the glass and rim protection, but unless the scheme changes or we get some rapid improvement in cleaning up our current weaknesses using the current scheme, we are going to be conceding even more open 3s than we currently do, which is a scary thought. All that being said, I'd love being able to throw 2 bigs on the floor at the same time. I just think we need a considerable shift in defensive philosophy that the staff has shown to be unwilling/unable to make, at least so far. I appreciate your contribution but you do realize I am talking about 21 kids, right? OR should I say I am talking about the kids that will be playing from 21 and beyond. In other words, I am not talking about the kids we have on the team now. The kids that will be playing with us from 21 and beyond are much more athletic. Also, I am talking about two centers (not five centers). The other three guys will be wing players. And to be honest with you, Ryan at this point can play the power forward. So just scratch the C from Mutombo and substitute PF instead and you're good. Last but not least, look at the Lakers team when they have both Davis and Howard on the floor and then add Lebron. I think they handled the big men problem quite well given the smaller teams they've played against in the playoffs and have easily defeated them. If you are only talking about class of '21 kids, then why list Q? I agree we've become much more athletic across the board under Ewing compared to the last few years of JTIII, but that is just getting us back to a point where we are on par athletically at the BE level. We still have a ways to go before we can overwhelm conference opponents consistently with sheer athleticism. If the scheme doesn't work, athleticism will only cover its deficiencies so far. If Ryan can guard stretch 4s, then I agree he can play the 4. But I think we'll have to disagree on whether or not he can do that at this stage in his career. Lastly, any argument that involves us being able to do whatever we want with a lineup by comparing it to another lineup that arguably has 2 of the 3 or 4 players with the greatest position versatility in the world has to be taken with a grain of salt. |
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Oct 5, 2020 11:24:19 GMT -5
I appreciate your contribution but you do realize I am talking about 21 kids, right? OR should I say I am talking about the kids that will be playing from 21 and beyond. In other words, I am not talking about the kids we have on the team now. The kids that will be playing with us from 21 and beyond are much more athletic. Also, I am talking about two centers (not five centers). The other three guys will be wing players. And to be honest with you, Ryan at this point can play the power forward. So just scratch the C from Mutombo and substitute PF instead and you're good. Last but not least, look at the Lakers team when they have both Davis and Howard on the floor and then add Lebron. I think they handled the big men problem quite well given the smaller teams they've played against in the playoffs and have easily defeated them. If you are only talking about class of '21 kids, then why list Q? I agree we've become much more athletic across the board under Ewing compared to the last few years of JTIII, but that is just getting us back to a point where we are on par athletically at the BE level. We still have a ways to go before we can overwhelm conference opponents consistently with sheer athleticism. If the scheme doesn't work, athleticism will only cover its deficiencies so far. If Ryan can guard stretch 4s, then I agree he can play the 4. But I think we'll have to disagree on whether or not he can do that at this stage in his career. Lastly, any argument that involves us being able to do whatever we want with a lineup by comparing it to another lineup that arguably has 2 of the 3 or 4 players with the greatest position versatility in the world has to be taken with a grain of salt. Not Class of 2021. 2021-22 team members |
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DudeSlade
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Post by DudeSlade on Oct 5, 2020 11:27:32 GMT -5
Mutombo said in one of the articles that his goal was to get his 3-point shooting up to 35% consistently. If he can do that, it solves a lot of problems offensively with playing 2 bigs. The question then is defensively do any of the bigs have the agility, lateral quickness, athleticism to guard smaller players.
The Lakers are showing right now in their lineups with AD at the 4 that the death of bigs and big lineups has been overrated, but you still need floor spreading offensively and the ability to guard quicker players defensively to play that way. Doesn’t necessarily have to be the same player providing that on either side of the floor like AD does for the Lakers — Pat actually tried this with Govan & Leblanc and seemed poise to try it with Yurt & Leblanc before the transfers where Leblanc played offensively in the post but defensively covered smaller players while Govan/Yurt could spread the floor and then handle the post defensively. Admittedly, Leblanc is not the size of any of our centers/bigs now and at least at this point was far more athletic, nor are any of our bigs as good of outside shooters as Govan/Yurt. But it does seem to point a path to using more bigs together, especially if any develop the outside shot like Mutombo has said he wants to.
I think with the proliferation of shooting at all positions out to seemingly any range, the alternative to this has to be being bigger, longer, more athletic at every position and disrupting shots and passing angles. The first time I saw this start to work was the Thunder when they still had Durant using it against the Warriors. Durant & the Thunder were choke artists, but they played that version of the Warriors tougher than anyone else. The Lakers with Lebron & AD have now taking it to the next level. They smothered the Trailblazers, Rockets, & Nuggets, harassed & beat them up, despite all 3 teams being much better shooters. And yes, I get we don’t have Lebron and AD, but other teams don’t have NBA superstars shooting against us either. It’s just a model to build a team alternatively.
I look at the athleticism and size of the Hoyas team Pat’s building, that most of the players seem to cross over multiple positions, that they want to get up & down the court quickly, get fast break points, play tenacious defense (we haven’t seen this yet but you know Pat wants tenacious defense & each new recruit has had their defensive intensity talked about), and it seems he’s looking to counter the small ball or shooting from distance revolution by building a team differently.
In that mold, there’s a possibility for multiple big men at different times on the court depending on who you play. With other Forwards like he has coming in, you can also go smaller (aka same size of most teams) if needed. So lots of flexibility.
If Mutombo develops that outside shot, he’ll be a weapon for us for sure. Stoked to continue the family connection. Liking the type of team Pat is building. Hoya Saxa!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2020 11:36:55 GMT -5
If you are only talking about class of '21 kids, then why list Q? I agree we've become much more athletic across the board under Ewing compared to the last few years of JTIII, but that is just getting us back to a point where we are on par athletically at the BE level. We still have a ways to go before we can overwhelm conference opponents consistently with sheer athleticism. If the scheme doesn't work, athleticism will only cover its deficiencies so far. If Ryan can guard stretch 4s, then I agree he can play the 4. But I think we'll have to disagree on whether or not he can do that at this stage in his career. Lastly, any argument that involves us being able to do whatever we want with a lineup by comparing it to another lineup that arguably has 2 of the 3 or 4 players with the greatest position versatility in the world has to be taken with a grain of salt. Not Class of 2021. 2021-22 team members Thanks for clearing that up seaweed. I thought Rock would be able to see where I was coming from but I guess I wasn't clear. |
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Post by RockawayHoya on Oct 5, 2020 11:54:34 GMT -5
If you are only talking about class of '21 kids, then why list Q? I agree we've become much more athletic across the board under Ewing compared to the last few years of JTIII, but that is just getting us back to a point where we are on par athletically at the BE level. We still have a ways to go before we can overwhelm conference opponents consistently with sheer athleticism. If the scheme doesn't work, athleticism will only cover its deficiencies so far. If Ryan can guard stretch 4s, then I agree he can play the 4. But I think we'll have to disagree on whether or not he can do that at this stage in his career. Lastly, any argument that involves us being able to do whatever we want with a lineup by comparing it to another lineup that arguably has 2 of the 3 or 4 players with the greatest position versatility in the world has to be taken with a grain of salt. Not Class of 2021. 2021-22 team members He said "In other words, I am not talking about the kids we have on the team now." Q is on the team now. Believe me, I am all for figuring out a way to move guys like Sibley and Billingsley to the 3, getting bigger, and figuring out a way to develop their skills as a 3, because if they get to the next level that's what they'll be asked to do. It's just going to involve a fundamental shift in the way we play defense and at least one big to develop a consistent perimeter game for that to happen. Didn't say it was impossible. |
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Oct 5, 2020 12:03:24 GMT -5
Whether we start one big or two...these are great problems to have. You look at what the Lakers are doing with AD and Howard right now and you can see how it can still be effective in today’s game. As important as having one of the bigs able to stretch the defense ...is the ability for both bigs to step out and guard the perimeter.
Who knows exactly how this will play out but one thing for sure is that we suddenly have very good depth at the 4 and the 5. Just need a guy who can really create off the dribble ...aminu would fit that bill perfectly.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2020 12:32:54 GMT -5
Not Class of 2021. 2021-22 team members He said "In other words, I am not talking about the kids we have on the team now." Q is on the team now. Believe me, I am all for figuring out a way to move guys like Sibley and Billingsley to the 3, getting bigger, and figuring out a way to develop their skills as a 3, because if they get to the next level that's what they'll be asked to do. It's just going to involve a fundamental shift in the way we play defense and at least one big to develop a consistent perimeter game for that to happen. Didn't say it was impossible. Okay, I made a mistake Rock! Can't I live?! I'm saying that the guys we have on the team today that won't be on the team next year are not as athletic as the team we will have for the 2021 - 2022 season. Is that better? Okay, let me try it this way. I think players like Riley, Beard and Sibley are much more athletic than Blair, Pickett and guys we've had in the recent past playing the wing position. We can afford to put two big guys in the lineup at the same time for that reason in my opinion. There, is that better? Did I clear it up for you? |
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skunk
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Post by skunk on Oct 5, 2020 14:20:16 GMT -5
Huge. #14 class in the nation. Aminu would push us into the top 10 According to the 247 Class Calculator, an Aminu commitment would push us into 3rd in the country (right now, at least). The project total would have been 11th last year (if we got Mohammed) fwiw. Pretty damn good |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2020 14:54:11 GMT -5
All I can say is we back baby! 20-21 is going to be good but 21-22 is going to be even better. I'm excited! I love all the pieces we have even if we don't get another recruit for 21-22. If we get Aminu though, that will be icing on the cake! I don't want to open up a can of worms but I believe all the kids will play big roles for the team. I love all the guards (Beard, Carey, TJ, Riley, Clark and a possible Mohammed). I love the small forwards (Sibley, Holloway, Billingsley and Clark). I love the Bigs ( Billingsley, Mutombo, Q, Wilson and Tim). We will be competitive. We back baby! (Rick Flair) Whooooooo!
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wsdhoya
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Post by wsdhoya on Oct 5, 2020 15:36:52 GMT -5
Certainly a nice get for Ewing and the Hoyas, but comparing this class to a fab 5 or even an above average class just shows how far Georgetown has fallen from 2013. This class has one border line top 75 prospect, that's it. Not saying that rankings determine everything but only a few short years ago Georgetown was able to pull in two or three top 50 guys each class. To be in the top 4 of the Big East, Georgetown's recruiting bread and butter will likely be several guys from the 75-120 range supplemented with the occasional top 50 player who can be a star in the conference. This conference will be really tough the next number of years, with UCONN back and on the up, Nova being Nova, Seton Hall being what Georgetown used to be, and even DePaul with a top 10 recruiting class. Georgetown needs to assert itself in the upper tier of the conference and that starts by out recruiting the likes of Butler, Creighton, and Seton Hall, which should be no problem for a program with the history and resources of Georgetown.
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Post by bigelephant on Oct 5, 2020 16:03:32 GMT -5
Welcome Ryan! You made a great decision. You gonna be da MAN!
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Oct 5, 2020 16:59:49 GMT -5
Watching his announcement video he has really good handles for a seven footer They all look like that in an empty gym by themselves, maybe I’m being hard on the kid but I thought the video showed they still need a lot of work... So true. That's a trust but verify scenario there. |
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Oct 5, 2020 17:06:09 GMT -5
What recruiting class in Georgetown history formed a complete starting level unit of 5 players? Lots. Many of the pre-1972 classes, by the nature of freshmen eligibility, featured a theoretical starting five out of the freshmen teams. Since 1972, this threshold has been reached eight times, most recently in 2011 with a what-if lineup that included: Jabril Trawick (#80) Otto Porter (#34) Greg Whittington Mikael Hopkins (#98) Tyler Adams (#80) This was the class that, through no fault of its own, was the beginning of the end for JTIII and, by extension, has led to where Georgetown is today. The coaches never gave Trawick the reins to be the kind of player he could be. Hopkins was ineffective from day one. Adams' career ended within a month. But worse, the staff had no plan for replacing Porter and even less for Whittington. From this class, JT III started grasping at the Josh Smiths and Stephen Domingos of the recruiting world. JT III never recovered and Ewing hasn't done much better in the interim, which is why Georgetown went from #1 in the Big East in 2013 to a team competing with St. John's and DePaul in 2020. What surprised me was that anyone on this board could suggest a "Fab 5" reference for players currently ranked 95, 136, 141, and 147. The present recruiting class is not in the same universe as a 1990 Michigan class that included five national top 25 players (#3,4,5,9,and 24) and four Parade All-America selections. In terms of recruiting rankings you are 100% correct. But I will emphasize again...rankings in the end do not guarantee results, nor are they anywhere close to a perfect predictor of talent. Granted when recruits are ranked relative low one can't make assumptions either that they are going to come in and be effective right away. But the guys of this 2021 class pass the Eye Test as far as I'm concerned. |
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Oct 5, 2020 17:26:58 GMT -5
Lots. Many of the pre-1972 classes, by the nature of freshmen eligibility, featured a theoretical starting five out of the freshmen teams. Since 1972, this threshold has been reached eight times, most recently in 2011 with a what-if lineup that included: Jabril Trawick (#80) Otto Porter (#34) Greg Whittington Mikael Hopkins (#98) Tyler Adams (#80) This was the class that, through no fault of its own, was the beginning of the end for JTIII and, by extension, has led to where Georgetown is today. The coaches never gave Trawick the reins to be the kind of player he could be. Hopkins was ineffective from day one. Adams' career ended within a month. But worse, the staff had no plan for replacing Porter and even less for Whittington. From this class, JT III started grasping at the Josh Smiths and Stephen Domingos of the recruiting world. JT III never recovered and Ewing hasn't done much better in the interim, which is why Georgetown went from #1 in the Big East in 2013 to a team competing with St. John's and DePaul in 2020. What surprised me was that anyone on this board could suggest a "Fab 5" reference for players currently ranked 95, 136, 141, and 147. The present recruiting class is not in the same universe as a 1990 Michigan class that included five national top 25 players (#3,4,5,9,and 24) and four Parade All-America selections. Nah 247sports.com/college/georgetown/Season/2014-Basketball/Commits/Yeah, THAT class was much more of a killer. Transfer City. But it is still only as high as the #3 reason for the downfall of III which led to this current situation that DFW refers to. The #2 problem was the Hoyas' inability to live up to their seeding in the NCAA tournament for five or six years, with first round exits coming in all but one or two of them. The #1 issue was that ::bleep:: offense did III's teams no favors, increasingly on the recruiting front and especially when the games mattered. I could go on all day but this isn't the thread for it. |
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