mdtd
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Post by mdtd on Sept 11, 2020 10:37:25 GMT -5
There are issues I have with how either Yurt was used or how Ewing hyped him up to be the most offensively gifted 7-footer he had ever seen. I too think he should have taken more threes. But if he wanted to be almost exclusively a big who took two-point shots that could have worked too considering the high percentage Yurt was hitting. The problem was, besides the injuries of course, is that once BE play began Yurtseven wanted no part of that post up game or was too inconsistent in posting up and demanding the ball. Could not figure it out. That said Wahab looks like a willing post player who also hits at an efficient rate. If he can keep that up even with increase minutes and usage it would be dumb not to make his post game a cornerstone of the offense. His play inside often kept Gtown in games because other BE teams for the most part had no one on their rosters who could stop him. And hopefully such mismatches this upcoming season will lead o more open looks from the three. Well the other problem was half our team disappeared in November, especially all our athletic, tall, long swingmen who could have grabbed rebounds, if Yurt7 floated outside for 3s. We'll never know. Well, first off shooting a couple of threes doesn't mean he couldn't ever be in the paint. The offense should've allowed him to come to the perimeter every once and again IMO. He was a capable shooter and a five out setting would've opened up driving lanes for out guards who needed them. Him being inside the entire game restricted their ability to create. If Yurt was on the perimeter more and was a clear threat to shoot it from out there, opposing bigs would've had to drift out to the three-point line or even to the elbow to guard him consistently, opening up more driving lanes and clearing space. Also, offensive rebounds weren't a problem for this team. We were 44th in the country in offensive rebounds per game and 64th in percentage (according to the NCAA website and teamrankings respectively), so it's not like we couldn't afford to have Yurt on the perimeter once in every four to six possessions just being a threat from there. It would've cleared space for our guards and would've allowed him to utilize his full toolbox. Also also, Yurtseven took two threes in the seven games with everybody. He took three in the two games (all three against Oklahoma State) with Galen and Myron, but no James and Josh. He took nine threes in the 17 games with none of those guys. So, it's not like losing those three wings meant much in terms of how Yurt was used. If anything, that should've changed defensively when we lost our best paint protector in LeBlanc (to get ahead of this now, I think Q will become a better paint protector than LeBlanc was, but he's not there yet from what we last saw). If you include the games where we had two of the three wings, Yurt took five threes in the nine games there (.556 per game) vs nine in the seventeen games without them (.53 per game), so he took ever so slightly less without them, but not enough to make a significant difference. If you don't, then he took more threes without LeBlanc (.53 per game) vs with LeBlanc (.29 per game) so this point doesn't really line up again. If anything, him not taking threes without the guards hurt him and our team. It clogged the lane up and hurt our guards already lacking ability to create shots. If the lane was open, I think it would've helped open up driving lanes. This and there was no change defensively, knowing we lost our second line of defense. If LeBlanc was there to stop the roll man from being open on the hard hedge, the hard hedge isn't a problem. For a four-man, LeBlanc was excellent inside defensively. His presence changed how we were able to play defense. Without him, sticking with the same defensive scheme didn't make sense.
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Post by professorhoya on Sept 11, 2020 11:43:25 GMT -5
But we never really had a full deck since LeBlanc was in the doghouse and suspended or reduced minutes for most of that time. And you had the driver of the bus (Akinjo) not following directions. And Galen and Myron were sweating out the allegations the whole time. And this is on top of the face that they were all still getting used to playing with each other since Myron was a freshman and Galen a transfer. What does it matter if the team was full or not? If you have a weapon, you have to use it. We know that Omer was great at NCSt from 3 in his last season there (22 of 44 for 50%). In his only season at GU, he shot 14 3s! If you have no size or athleticism to rebound then you wouldn’t want to send your one big man who can rebound floating out past the 3 pt line. Common sense that you would not do that if you are missing a bunch of your rebounders
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vv83
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Post by vv83 on Sept 11, 2020 12:03:34 GMT -5
I think the answer is simple. Despite his good 3 pt numbers (in limited attempts) at NC State, Omer simply is not that good a 3 pt. shooter. Having watched him for 2 summers at Kenner along with last seasons games and home warmups - I think he is a decent 3 point shooter for a big man, but not a good one. Nowhere near as good as Govan. If Ewing thought he could be a weapon from 3, he would have had him shooting more 3s. He did this with Govan. Don't overthink this one.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Sept 11, 2020 14:41:39 GMT -5
What does it matter if the team was full or not? If you have a weapon, you have to use it. We know that Omer was great at NCSt from 3 in his last season there (22 of 44 for 50%). In his only season at GU, he shot 14 3s! If you have no size or athleticism to rebound then you wouldn’t want to send your one big man who can rebound floating out past the 3 pt line. Common sense that you would not do that if you are missing a bunch of your rebounders As the other poster pointed out, last season we did a good job in rebounding with all returning players (including Omer) having better individual rebounding numbers than their previous year. It was a pre-season focus. Common sense tells you that if the big can shoot the 3, that big will need to be guarded by another big. Although they had pretty good rebounding numbers last year, Jamorko and Jagan could have been even better without a defending big inside. Maybe we would have seen a Mac follow-up dunk or two. But, I guess it's water under the bridge now. What is clear is that, unless Wahab has developed a 3-pt shot (Wahab has never shot a 3-pointer as a Hoya) this off-season, Pat's offense for the first time will have a big who cannot step outside past the FT line. Our offense will have Wahab near the basket, we will be feeding him and the lane will be packed until we proof we can hit a lot from outside. Like last year, I expect a lot of penetration to draw fouls. Practice those FTs, guys (esp. Wahab, 63%FT).
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Sept 11, 2020 14:42:51 GMT -5
I think the answer is simple. Despite his good 3 pt numbers (in limited attempts) at NC State, Omer simply is not that good a 3 pt. shooter. Having watched him for 2 summers at Kenner along with last seasons games and home warmups - I think he is a decent 3 point shooter for a big man, but not a good one. Nowhere near as good as Govan. If Ewing thought he could be a weapon from 3, he would have had him shooting more 3s. He did this with Govan. Don't overthink this one. Disagree. 44 attempts is not "limited". But, water under the bridge...
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hoyasaxa2003
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Sept 11, 2020 15:15:52 GMT -5
I think the answer is simple. Despite his good 3 pt numbers (in limited attempts) at NC State, Omer simply is not that good a 3 pt. shooter. Having watched him for 2 summers at Kenner along with last seasons games and home warmups - I think he is a decent 3 point shooter for a big man, but not a good one. Nowhere near as good as Govan. If Ewing thought he could be a weapon from 3, he would have had him shooting more 3s. He did this with Govan. Don't overthink this one. Disagree. 44 attempts is not "limited". But, water under the bridge... My biggest problem with Yurtseven taking so few threes is that our team really did not have good three point shooters. So, even if he's not as good as he was at NC State, you would think you'd want him shooting threes anyway, plus it really opens up the offense to have a big guy who can also extend the floor and shoot from long range. We obviously have no idea what the emphasis was from the coaching staff, but if it was obvious to Yurtseven he would not have an opportunity to shoot threes at Georgetown, it's possible he practiced that less than other skills. In the modern game, your bigs either need to be hugely dominant around the basket (think somebody like Drummond or Williamson) or have range. Bigger, slow guys who park in the paint just aren't very well suited to the modern game, particularly on defense. And, that's the reason Yurtseven may have a shot. If he can build up his three point shooting, someone might give him a chance eventually. But, to see the NBA, he's going to have to show more than he showed at Georgetown.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Sept 17, 2020 22:44:51 GMT -5
Disagree. 44 attempts is not "limited". But, water under the bridge... My biggest problem with Yurtseven taking so few threes is that our team really did not have good three point shooters. So, even if he's not as good as he was at NC State, you would think you'd want him shooting threes anyway, plus it really opens up the offense to have a big guy who can also extend the floor and shoot from long range. We obviously have no idea what the emphasis was from the coaching staff, but if it was obvious to Yurtseven he would not have an opportunity to shoot threes at Georgetown, it's possible he practiced that less than other skills. In the modern game, your bigs either need to be hugely dominant around the basket (think somebody like Drummond or Williamson) or have range. Bigger, slow guys who park in the paint just aren't very well suited to the modern game, particularly on defense. And, that's the reason Yurtseven may have a shot. If he can build up his three point shooting, someone might give him a chance eventually. But, to see the NBA, he's going to have to show more than he showed at Georgetown. Counterargument (not necessarily specific to your post): why spend too much time working on your range when you have a limited two years to learn the inside game from one of the best that ever did it? Any number of people can coach Yurt to shoot from deep (he has the natural ability), but there are considerably fewer people on this planet that can reliably coach his inside game up. Sure he didn’t eat on the inside as much as some may have wanted last year, but I really do think the ticky tack fouls he was getting called for on both offense and defense early in the year forced him to adapt his game to be a little less physical (something he’ll be more free to do as a pro). And I think that’s why some on here think he played soft, because he was feeling out how physical he could play while trying to stay ahead of a developing reputation for being foul prone. I don’t know, it just seemed glaringly obvious to me that early on he realized he wasn’t going to be able to bang as much as he wanted (or even avoid the big man bias that often comes from refs who lack a proper understanding of physics and the rules) because of the officiating and so he had to curtail certain elements of his game. Maybe that did allow certain bad (soft) habits to creep in throughout the year, but the dude is massive and is still developing.
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Sept 18, 2020 19:32:05 GMT -5
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Sept 21, 2020 18:05:27 GMT -5
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trillesthoya
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Post by trillesthoya on Sept 21, 2020 18:11:50 GMT -5
Man I really don’t want to open up that can of worms... but that’s some interesting wording there.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Sept 21, 2020 22:04:50 GMT -5
Man I really don’t want to open up that can of worms... but that’s some interesting wording there. By interesting do you happen to mean pretty routine and pretty aware?
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Sept 21, 2020 23:06:10 GMT -5
I wish nothing but the best for Omer. But, he was reluctant to shoot the 3 all on his own. Yes, he could very easily have been told (and, likely, was) that he was to be an inside presence. But, he also declined a lot of open looks that, had he been hitting them at a decent clip, would have been just fine with his coach. The narrative makes sense, though. If he's to make a career of it, he needs to prove that he can be an outside threat. Patrick runs a pro-style offense, for the most part. That includes the bigs showing their range. Omer wasn't worth guarding at the 3 point line for the opposing big. Maybe he was told that he was to be, primarily, a force down low. I'd bet that he was. But, having said that, that never precluded him from taking open shots from 3. He chose that. Maybe it was a mental thing because he was told to be, primarily, a post player. But, if that's the case, it's still, largely, on him. Ewing wouldn't have taken issue with him taking and hitting open 3's at the top of the key on bad defensive switches.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Sept 22, 2020 9:49:12 GMT -5
I wish nothing but the best for Omer. But, he was reluctant to shoot the 3 all on his own. Yes, he could very easily have been told (and, likely, was) that he was to be an inside presence. But, he also declined a lot of open looks that, had he been hitting them at a decent clip, would have been just fine with his coach. The narrative makes sense, though. If he's to make a career of it, he needs to prove that he can be an outside threat. Patrick runs a pro-style offense, for the most part. That includes the bigs showing their range. Omer wasn't worth guarding at the 3 point line for the opposing big. Maybe he was told that he was to be, primarily, a force down low. I'd bet that he was. But, having said that, that never precluded him from taking open shots from 3. He chose that. Maybe it was a mental thing because he was told to be, primarily, a post player. But, if that's the case, it's still, largely, on him. Ewing wouldn't have taken issue with him taking and hitting open 3's at the top of the key on bad defensive switches. If you read the article a few posts up you wouldn’t have to speculate so much in this post.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Sept 22, 2020 9:50:09 GMT -5
I wish nothing but the best for Omer. But, he was reluctant to shoot the 3 all on his own. Yes, he could very easily have been told (and, likely, was) that he was to be an inside presence. But, he also declined a lot of open looks that, had he been hitting them at a decent clip, would have been just fine with his coach. The narrative makes sense, though. If he's to make a career of it, he needs to prove that he can be an outside threat. Patrick runs a pro-style offense, for the most part. That includes the bigs showing their range. Omer wasn't worth guarding at the 3 point line for the opposing big. Maybe he was told that he was to be, primarily, a force down low. I'd bet that he was. But, having said that, that never precluded him from taking open shots from 3. He chose that. Maybe it was a mental thing because he was told to be, primarily, a post player. But, if that's the case, it's still, largely, on him. Ewing wouldn't have taken issue with him taking and hitting open 3's at the top of the key on bad defensive switches. This is some interesting fan fiction.
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Post by professorhoya on Sept 22, 2020 12:54:39 GMT -5
This is basically what I have been saying. They needed him to rebound and couldn't afford to pull him outside with nobody to collect rebounds. (since most of our rebounders and athletic wings and bigs had transferred). I think if we had had LeBlanc for the season then Omer would have had the luxury of floating outside for 3s, but we will never know.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Sept 22, 2020 20:46:30 GMT -5
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trillesthoya
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Post by trillesthoya on Sept 22, 2020 20:48:06 GMT -5
Tons of teams are talking to Yurtseven right now. Would not be surprised if he gets taken at some point in the second by a team looking for a big to develop.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Sept 22, 2020 21:36:29 GMT -5
I wish nothing but the best for Omer. But, he was reluctant to shoot the 3 all on his own. Yes, he could very easily have been told (and, likely, was) that he was to be an inside presence. But, he also declined a lot of open looks that, had he been hitting them at a decent clip, would have been just fine with his coach. The narrative makes sense, though. If he's to make a career of it, he needs to prove that he can be an outside threat. Patrick runs a pro-style offense, for the most part. That includes the bigs showing their range. Omer wasn't worth guarding at the 3 point line for the opposing big. Maybe he was told that he was to be, primarily, a force down low. I'd bet that he was. But, having said that, that never precluded him from taking open shots from 3. He chose that. Maybe it was a mental thing because he was told to be, primarily, a post player. But, if that's the case, it's still, largely, on him. Ewing wouldn't have taken issue with him taking and hitting open 3's at the top of the key on bad defensive switches. If you read the article a few posts up you wouldn’t have to speculate so much in this post. I did read the article prior to posting anything. I also watched the games and saw him turn down looks. You didn't?
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Sept 22, 2020 21:38:06 GMT -5
I wish nothing but the best for Omer. But, he was reluctant to shoot the 3 all on his own. Yes, he could very easily have been told (and, likely, was) that he was to be an inside presence. But, he also declined a lot of open looks that, had he been hitting them at a decent clip, would have been just fine with his coach. The narrative makes sense, though. If he's to make a career of it, he needs to prove that he can be an outside threat. Patrick runs a pro-style offense, for the most part. That includes the bigs showing their range. Omer wasn't worth guarding at the 3 point line for the opposing big. Maybe he was told that he was to be, primarily, a force down low. I'd bet that he was. But, having said that, that never precluded him from taking open shots from 3. He chose that. Maybe it was a mental thing because he was told to be, primarily, a post player. But, if that's the case, it's still, largely, on him. Ewing wouldn't have taken issue with him taking and hitting open 3's at the top of the key on bad defensive switches. This is some interesting fan fiction. If by "fiction" you mean disagreeing upon what you and I saw on the floor, sure, go with, "fiction." It's inaccurate but have at it. I guess your opinion would then have to be, "truth?" Got it.
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Sept 22, 2020 22:19:04 GMT -5
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