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Post by njhoyalawya on Feb 21, 2020 7:44:04 GMT -5
Not sure who else caught this, but I thought it was peculiar at the time so I went back to re-watch it. Right before tipoff at Butler, Andy Katz gave the update on Yurtseven and then Tim Brando said this: "In defense of the circumstances for Patrick Ewing, the loss of McClung may be more difficult today than the loss of Yurtseven. But in truth, what we're really witnessing is modern day college basketball where the coaches today sometimes just have to understand the modern day internet athlete, and who that athlete may be listening to. I'll leave it there." Made me think there are "handlers" thinking of his future professional paychecks. Unfortunate if this is the case. I understand if he is hurt. But, if this is just to protect his draft stock when he is physically able to play, I am not sure anything would be better than going out there and playing to prove that he can dominate against Big East competition. If he can't show that he can dominate in the Big East, what NBA team will have confidence that he could play against NBA professionals?? As an aside, I wish people would stop posting GQ pictures of him in a suit, like he is some kind of model. His teammates were sweating it up and leaving it all out there on the court. Those are the only pictures I'd like to see.
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on Feb 21, 2020 8:21:02 GMT -5
That Brando comment has stuck with me, because my immediate reaction was "WTF?"
Keep in mind that Brando then spent the next two hours pronouncing "Allen" as "Blair," "Igohefe" as "Wahab," saying that we had only five scholarship players available (even when six were playing in that very game), and saying that Patrick ran up a bunch of goaltending violations in the 1982 national semifinal (not the final). And I don't know the Butler team well enough to know what he might have been screwing up on their end.
In short, I don't think we should put any stock in anything he said during that broadcast.
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bostonfan
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Post by bostonfan on Feb 21, 2020 8:37:18 GMT -5
Not sure who else caught this, but I thought it was peculiar at the time so I went back to re-watch it. Right before tipoff at Butler, Andy Katz gave the update on Yurtseven and then Tim Brando said this: "In defense of the circumstances for Patrick Ewing, the loss of McClung may be more difficult today than the loss of Yurtseven. But in truth, what we're really witnessing is modern day college basketball where the coaches today sometimes just have to understand the modern day internet athlete, and who that athlete may be listening to. I'll leave it there." Made me think there are "handlers" thinking of his future professional paychecks. I don't know what might have been behind the comments that Brando made, but you have to think that someone had a conversation either with him or in his presence, where it was discussed why Yurt was not playing. Brando took that information and interpreted that into his somewhat vague comments. While I am not sure why Yurt decided to not play, I would not be surprised if one of his parents (not sure if his parents are local or not) or an adviser may have told him something like "if you don't feel well enough to go out there and be confident you can play well, you should not play yet". Is that awful advise to give a young person who has aspirations of making his living playing basketball? Not really. In a perfect world all of these athletes would be willing and able to play through some level of discomfort for the good of the team, but they all have different things going on in their lives and making a negative comment about a person character because he decides to be cautious with his body (and possibly his future) seems unwarranted to me. I hope he feels ready to play Saturday and comes out and plays really well.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Feb 21, 2020 8:50:24 GMT -5
Keep in mind that Brando then spent the next two hours pronouncing "Allen" as "Blair," "Igohefe" as "Wahab," saying that we had only five scholarship players available (even when six were playing in that very game), and saying that Patrick ran up a bunch of goaltending violations in the 1982 national semifinal (not the final). And I don't know the Butler team well enough to know what he might have been screwing up on their end. In short, I don't think we should put any stock in anything he said during that broadcast. Brando's a good announcer but there are a group of these former D-I coaches and ex-ESPN guys who float across the likes of FS1, CBS Sports, NBC Sports, and various OTT platforms and it seems they're just not as prepared to call different teams, so they fall back on anecdotes (yes, Brando was way off on the goaltend calls) or presentation gimmicks (think Pete Gillen's rat-a-tat approach when he calls games) to fill the gap. Bill Raftery excepted, you know announcers aren't up on the Hoyas when they throw in lots of references to "Big John" because it shows a lack of focus. Even Steve Buckhantz was guilty of this when he referenced the Capital Centre in one stretch. The "five scholarship" reference has been out there a lot in print and TV. It's as if they think Ighoefe and Wilson are walk-ons. Again, a lack of preparation, but also that Sports Information isn't correcting the narrative. (Georgetown is guilty of letting stories go unchecked beyond sports, but that's another topic.)
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Feb 21, 2020 9:42:25 GMT -5
I dunno....I couldn’t imagine voluntarily sidelining myself and watching my teammates leave it all out on the court. I can. He's playing for a pro career and came here specifically to train for that with Patrick Ewing, not to make the minor league playoffs. If he's not ready, he's not ready. I think it has to be asked whether Mac was pushed back too quickly and whether he got hurt because of it. It’s also how you get labeled as “soft”. He was already a mid to end 2nd round selection in the nba....as an owner, you now perhaps think twice. If his aspiration is to play in Europe...yeah, sit out all the games you like. Again, if I was a game time decision for Butler, just don’t see how I am not at least I am a game time decision before the provy game. But that’s just me.
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Post by njhoyalawya on Feb 21, 2020 9:54:52 GMT -5
I can. He's playing for a pro career and came here specifically to train for that with Patrick Ewing, not to make the minor league playoffs. If he's not ready, he's not ready. I think it has to be asked whether Mac was pushed back too quickly and whether he got hurt because of it. It’s also how you get labeled as “soft”. He was already a mid to end 2nd round selection in the nba....as an owner, you now perhaps think twice. If his aspiration is to play in Europe...yeah, sit out all the games you like. Again, if I was a game time decision for Butler, just don’t see how I am not at least I am a game time decision before the provy game. But that’s just me. This is the point that baffled me. I expected him to at least suit up for the game. From the press conference, sounds like Coach did as well -- he actually expected him to play. I see on his IG post from this morning, that he is now identifying as one of our "Junkyard Dogs" and has "#unfinishedbusiness." I'm guessing he plans to play on Saturday.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Feb 21, 2020 10:10:06 GMT -5
It’s also how you get labeled as “soft”. He was already a mid to end 2nd round selection in the nba....as an owner, you now perhaps think twice. If his aspiration is to play in Europe...yeah, sit out all the games you like. Again, if I was a game time decision for Butler, just don’t see how I am not at least I am a game time decision before the provy game. But that’s just me. This is the point that baffled me. I expected him to at least suit up for the game. From the press conference, sounds like Coach did as well -- he actually expected him to play. I see on his IG post from this morning, that he is now identifying as one of our "Junkyard Dogs" and has "#unfinishedbusiness." I'm guessing he plans to play on Saturday. I don't know any more than you guys do. But it's pretty easy to see how, in theory, one could be a game time decision for Butler and then be out for Provy. You feel decent enough before Butler to try to go and warm up, but you tweak it somewhat and decide you can't. Over the next few days, you're still in the same spot you were in during warmups against Butler. So you stay out.
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swhoya
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Post by swhoya on Feb 21, 2020 10:10:40 GMT -5
Nothing like having your "fans" speculate on how soft you are, based solely off the musings of an announcer who may--or may not--have a clue what he's talking about. Not that it was clear what he was talking about.
Anyway, we really could have used Omer against Providence. When things broke down the last 10 minutes, we had nothing but wild drives and prayers being thrown up, and not much ball movement. I think we could have run some plays through Omer in the paint and gotten some cutters and in-out game going, or his turnaround jumper. We were desperately lacking that.
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Post by njhoyalawya on Feb 21, 2020 10:26:38 GMT -5
This is the point that baffled me. I expected him to at least suit up for the game. From the press conference, sounds like Coach did as well -- he actually expected him to play. I see on his IG post from this morning, that he is now identifying as one of our "Junkyard Dogs" and has "#unfinishedbusiness." I'm guessing he plans to play on Saturday. I don't know any more than you guys do. But it's pretty easy to see how, in theory, one could be a game time decision for Butler and then be out for Provy. You feel decent enough before Butler to try to go and warm up, but you tweak it somewhat and decide you can't. Over the next few days, you're still in the same spot you were in during warmups against Butler. So you stay out. I can see that, but the sticking point for me here is that Coach thought he was going to play.
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Post by njhoyalawya on Feb 21, 2020 10:27:58 GMT -5
Nothing like having your "fans" speculate on how soft you are, based solely off the musings of an announcer who may--or may not--have a clue what he's talking about. Not that it was clear what he was talking about. Anyway, we really could have used Omer against Providence. When things broke down the last 10 minutes, we had nothing but wild drives and prayers being thrown up, and not much ball movement. I think we could have run some plays through Omer in the paint and gotten some cutters and in-out game going, or his turnaround jumper. We were desperately lacking that. And maybe less turnovers. But, it's all speculation at this point. Hopefully, we'll have more depth at Center on Saturday.
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TC
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Post by TC on Feb 21, 2020 10:29:19 GMT -5
I can. He's playing for a pro career and came here specifically to train for that with Patrick Ewing, not to make the minor league playoffs. If he's not ready, he's not ready. I think it has to be asked whether Mac was pushed back too quickly and whether he got hurt because of it. It’s also how you get labeled as “soft”. He was already a mid to end 2nd round selection in the nba....as an owner, you now perhaps think twice. If his aspiration is to play in Europe...yeah, sit out all the games you like. Again, if I was a game time decision for Butler, just don’t see how I am not at least I am a game time decision before the provy game. But that’s just me. Yeah, that is not how this works. No NBA front office is going to care one bit if he sat out a conference game against Providence. They will care if he has bad analytics when they start sorting through the hundreds of kids they look at for R2. This is what you signed up for when you got Yurtseven. He transferred out of a better program in a move I still do not understand in a basketball sense, he was pretty much an already-developed commodity, you were going to get one year out of him. Why any of you think he's going to jeopardize his health by playing hurt when the combine is a couple of months away is just beyond me. This isn't the 1980's and there are not any gold stars for jeopardizing your future like McClung did. Throwing him under the bus like Ewing is doing is a great way to ensure we never get another kid who wants to transfer and prep for the pros like Yurtseven did, because it is clear that Ewing will prioritize the short term win over your future health. Ewing needs to be talking Yurtseven up like he's the next great All Star Center because it's in Ewing's best interest that this kid gets drafted so that Ewing can point to that as part of his resume. Otherwise you look at this situation and see a guy who might have made R2 in 2018 and he goes to Georgetown and Ewing does nothing for him at best and at worst tanks his pro prospects by spreading it around that he is soft.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 21, 2020 10:47:20 GMT -5
Almost all guys want to play more. Playing time is almost always the number one complaint players have across the college basketball landscape, across all conferences, and all coaches. Nothing in Yurtseven's history indicates he's the type of guy who is going to take the easy way out to sit on the bench, when he can play. Without information to support it, I think it's insulting to say the guy could easily have played, but decided not to. As I noted, McClung was "cleared" and that backfired pretty quickly, so maybe Yurtseven is on to something.
Whether intentional or not, Ewing's comments come across as throwing Yurtseven under the bus. He made similar comments about Govan last year (though in a different context). It's not becoming of a high major coach. My biggest problem is what TC said, those types of comments are not going to appealing to graduate transfers or high level recruits.
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TC
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Post by TC on Feb 21, 2020 10:50:07 GMT -5
Whether intentional or not, Ewing's comments come across as throwing Yurtseven under the bus. He made similar comments about Govan last year. It's not becoming of a high major coach. At some point, you have to wonder if the attitudes are the result of the coach or the players. My worry is that it's completely self defeating. Calipari is a slimy dude, but his ability to politic for his kids attracts future kids to the program. Ewing's doing the opposite here.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Feb 21, 2020 10:51:51 GMT -5
I don't know any more than you guys do. But it's pretty easy to see how, in theory, one could be a game time decision for Butler and then be out for Provy. You feel decent enough before Butler to try to go and warm up, but you tweak it somewhat and decide you can't. Over the next few days, you're still in the same spot you were in during warmups against Butler. So you stay out. I can see that, but the sticking point for me here is that Coach thought he was going to play. He also said he didn't practice at all in between the two games!! Maybe he thought he would play despite that (or maybe Yurt told him he thought he would be OK). Who knows? I just think we are taking one comment and going out of our way to interpret it as badly as possible for Yurt.
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TC
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Post by TC on Feb 21, 2020 10:53:58 GMT -5
I can see that, but the sticking point for me here is that Coach thought he was going to play. He also said he didn't practice at all in between the two games!! Maybe he thought he would play despite that (or maybe Yurt told him he thought he would be OK). Who knows? I just think we are taking one comment and going out of our way to interpret it as badly as possible for Yurt. It isn't one comment. - Wally Pipp comment re: Tim is pretty obviously targeted at Yurtseven. Tim is Lou Gehrig, Yurtseven is Wally Pipp sitting out with a headache. - whatever he told Andy Katz pre game - "choice" comment post game
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Post by aleutianhoya on Feb 21, 2020 11:01:50 GMT -5
He also said he didn't practice at all in between the two games!! Maybe he thought he would play despite that (or maybe Yurt told him he thought he would be OK). Who knows? I just think we are taking one comment and going out of our way to interpret it as badly as possible for Yurt. It isn't one comment. - Wally Pipp comment re: Tim is pretty obviously targeted at Yurtseven - whatever he told Andy Katz pre game - "choice" comment post game That's fair. Although the Pipp comment doesn't scream out "the guy should be playing." It just says "someone isn't playing, so this is your chance."
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TC
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Post by TC on Feb 21, 2020 11:05:20 GMT -5
It isn't one comment. - Wally Pipp comment re: Tim is pretty obviously targeted at Yurtseven - whatever he told Andy Katz pre game - "choice" comment post game That's fair. Although the Pipp comment doesn't scream out "the guy should be playing." It just says "someone isn't playing, so this is your chance." The whole point of the Pipp story in popular culture is that if you dog it one day and sit out when you should be playing, someone is going to replace you. It screams "this guy should be playing". When I heard the analogy at first, I didn't know who Ewing thought should be playing - whether it was Omer or Mac who were injured or whether he was telling Tim he better suit up, but after seeing Mac suit up for the Providence game and watching that press conference it is crystal clear.
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Post by centercourt400s on Feb 21, 2020 11:12:26 GMT -5
He also said he didn't practice at all in between the two games!! Maybe he thought he would play despite that (or maybe Yurt told him he thought he would be OK). Who knows? I just think we are taking one comment and going out of our way to interpret it as badly as possible for Yurt. It isn't one comment. - Wally Pipp comment re: Tim is pretty obviously targeted at Yurtseven - whatever he told Andy Katz pre game - "choice" comment post game You are stringing together a couple of anecdotal second hand quotes and reports and turning them into an ill-advised condemnation. Ewing deserves more respect than that. And IMO this is an irresponsible statement: "it is clear that Ewing will prioritize the short term win over your future health". I follow this stuff as closely as you do and that is NOT clear to me in any way. For people who have little to no information about what is really going on it seems amazing to me how quickly negative conclusions are drawn and how adamantly they are promoted.
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Post by augustusfinknottle on Feb 21, 2020 11:20:36 GMT -5
"Babe (Dahlgren), you're playing first today".
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 21, 2020 11:25:02 GMT -5
My take on the Wally Pipp reference is simply that a sub who gets his shot because a solid established player has to sit out, can take that chance and use it to show he is a star. I have never seen that to in any way belittle or criticize the guy who has to sit out and then ends up getting left behind. So let's not make it out to be more than it was.
Patrick should not have used the word "chose". But I have to think injured players have to be medically cleared to play, and that Yurt was. Then Patrick asked him if he was ready or able to go, and Yurt told him he did not think he was. Patrick was probably a little surprised since he had been cleared, and because Patrick is old school and played in pain for years.
Patrick is not naive enough to tout a player to the pros as an All Star when the player has not shown that level of play consistently, because then he loses all credibility with NBA coaches and front offices. You can of course talk about a player's strengths and abilities, but you had better give honest overall assessments, because if you don't, the next time you talk up a player, even if legitimate, your credibility is questionable.
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