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Post by professorhoya on Apr 13, 2021 19:33:29 GMT -5
You're aware there's other places to make money playing basketball besides the NBA right? Top players in China can make 1-4 million a year... with Mac's dunking ability, play style, and skin color, he would be an instant star over there. Beyond that, the NBA thing is far from a pipe dream... Mac was an All Big 12 1st teamer and 2nd teamer (AP & Coaches) this season. Looking at the 1st and 2nd teams from 2020 I see Dotson (Bulls) Butler (Probable late 1st round pick) Bane (Grizzlies) Doolittle (G League) Azubuike (Jazz) Teague (2nd rounder?) Garrett (2nd rounder?) Ramsey (Kings) Tshibewe (Possible future 1st rounder) Gillespie (Raptors) So out of the 6 that declared last season, 5 are already on NBA rosters... 1 is in the G League... of the 4 that returned, 1 (Butler) will certainly be on an NBA roster next season, 2 will either be 2nd rounders or UDFA's and will have to earn it in the G League, and one is transferring to Kentucky but will likely be a future NBA player. Mac's path will obviously be similar to Teague and Garrett, that said, he's much closer than he was last season and is far from having little to no chance at the league. He was an elite player in an elite conference, which clearly means something. As for the Jimmer comparison, I mean they're both white and are a similar size, but the similarities stop there. Jimmer was an elite shooter with average athleticism, Mac is an average shooter with elite athleticism. If Mac were black but played exactly the same, you wouldn't compare him to Jimmer... why? Cus they play nothing alike. I don't understand why people, even NBA analysts on draft day, feel like they can only compare white players to other white players. As far as his decision to enter the draft as well as the portal, it's easily the best business decision he could've made. It leaves literally every option on the table for him. If he gets an NBA promise of a 2 way contract or better, or decides he's content to work his way up through the G League, he can stay in the draft. If he decides to come back he can find a smilier situation that he had last season (being the go to scorer for a top 25 team) or if Tech fills out their roster with some quality transfers/recruits, he can return there and resume his role. He's taking advantage of a system that takes advantage of these kids every year... nothing wrong with that. I'll never understand why people get so upset at other people for doing what's best for them instead of what's best for a school that doesn't pay them and a bunch of fans that bash em even when they're on the team let alone once they leave. Do you really think if Ewing was a great coach and highly sought after and the NBA or some other major college team came calling with a bag of money that Georgetown couldn't or wouldn't match, that Ewing would turn them down? He's the coach of Georgetown cus no one else is going to pay him what he gets until he proves himself to be worth that kind of money or more. If and when that day comes you will see that even the great Patrick Ewing's loyalty can easily be bought for the right price. So stop with the foolishness like Mac, Wahab, etc. should have some sort of undying loyalty to Ewing and Georgetown. I'm not a McClung Fan. But seriously I think he is taking bad advice. He went from being a guy who could be a 4 year starter at a school and leave as a All-Time Leading scorer, to will be a "remember him" guy at 2 schools, possibly 3 schools. I get he can have NBA aspirations, many D-1 players do. I been saying since McClung stepped into college I compared him to Xavier Pinson, Javonte Smart guys who I don't see as NBA players who would get lots of playing time in college over 3-4 years. If you can look at those guys and say 'NBA' then McClung could be in the conversation. At issue and what always been at issue is McClung is an undersized scorer, who isn't even consistent at doing that. Then if he isn't scoring he doesn't do anything else to help your team. He doesn't defend well, or play make for his teammates. Thats a major issue at his size. Then he has short arms too. So I get the idea it 'only takes one' team to make your dream come true. He was given an evaluation by NBA scouts that everyone who watches basketball could have told him and have said as much. I get it he is a scorer. He wants to make the NBA as a scorer. He just has to understand that is the HARDEST way to make the NBA. If he showed he could score at the clip he does while being a backup PG for 10-15 minutes a game, he would be a lock 2nd round are late 1st. Not having any PG skills or knack for PG play really hurts his NBA prospects. Heck, if he was 2 inches taller he would be a 1st round pick, because he would automatically be a rebounding asset, and could be a 'big guard'. He has a skillset mismatch, and it appears from the 10 or so TT games I saw this year he hasn't done a ton to address it. And its not like he hasn't gotten to showcase his talent in 3 years of college basketball. No one likes transfers, but people are pragmatic in people want better situations. With McClung its kinda weird he has left 2 situations now where playing time, and access to the ball were not issues. Thats 'weird' to many people. So it becomes 'what does this guy want'. But you can always say, The Hoyas were a bad fit, and his coach left TT. Both valid reasons most people would say or legit reasons to transfer. He has had unlimited playing time and access to the ball for 3 years. So you have the issue of, there is no mystery to his playing style, or decision making. He has a TON of tape out there. This isn't 6'9" Jalen Johnson with 10 games of tape, who did just enough to convince a NBA GM to burn a mid-1st on a guy. There is no mystery, which means he is a known commodity. At this point his skillset isn't valued. Now hey if McClung gets into the camp circuits for the draft and scores at a nice clip, and displays some ballhandling skills, his dream will come true. Thats the great thing about sports. You get to earn your spot each time you go up on the court. Mac's elite skill is supposedly dunking. But he can never do it in a game situation except on wide open breakaways. That's actually a problem. |
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 13, 2021 19:38:05 GMT -5
I have no issue with him doing whatever he and his family think is best for him. He's got a dream. So, go out and do what you can to achieve it. Nothing wrong with that. Maybe it's a pipedream. But...it's not like he's getting ten minutes a game at a bad program. It's not a crazy dream. But it's a two way street. No one should expect fans of the program to do anything but support the guys who choose to be here. And it can't be a shock that many will rail against those that choose to go elsewhere. Rational, irrational, or otherwise. He will find a decent (at minimum) team in a major conference that promises him around 30 mpg. He will get his shots...because that's what he does. And none of it will matter a lick to the Georgetown Hoyas. I wouldn't expect the average Georgetown fan to root for Mac once he left, and I get that most are rooting for him to fail. That is not surprising. The strange part is that people are trying to somehow insist he made a mistake leaving Georgetown, when clearly he did not. He started every game, missed 0 games with injury, won a couple of major awards, had his best overall statistical season to date, played in the tournament, and played for a team that was in the top 25 every week of the season for the first time in school history. Yet the best reason people can come up with that he made a mistake is that Ewing could have thrown his weight around and got him on some bottom feeder Euro league team if he had stayed. It's also strange that so many people are questioning the decision to enter the NBA Draft and the transfer portal. It's literally the smartest thing he could do, yet people act like he's got "handlers" giving him bad advice. He does not have handlers, he's not getting advice from random money grubbing family members and friends.... and the decision to enter both the draft and portal was easily his best move. I have yet to hear an actual reason why that was a bad decision. By comparison, Akinjo, who also entered the draft, and also has little chance of being drafted, has little to no people commenting on how draftable he is or what a mistake it was that he's entering the draft, or questioning the "advice" of people who are in his ear that certainly have a far more vested interest in him making money playing pro ball than anyone in Mac's corner does. So what's the difference between the two? Both are in the draft, neither is likely to be selected, both transferred from Georgetown, both are for the most part unliked. Why is one guys draft prospects so interesting to people who claim to both not like him, yet not care about him, while the other guy is of little to no interest? I mean Cindad even makes a point to say he's not a McClung fan, claims to I believe be a Michigan fan, yet says he watched 10 TT games this year and of his 40 or so posts on this board at least half or more are centered on McClung. The obsession people who claim to not like or care about McClung have with his future NBA prospects is very odd. The thing is nobody cares about Akinjo. That's why his decision is not being discussed. Mac can afford to Edited off fan bases (Rutgers, Hoyas, Texas Tech) because really his fans are his youtube/Instagram loyal followers. Is it short sighted. Possibly, if he doesn't make it in the NBA and he doesn't have a school to fall back on or be a part of. Or it could be forward thinking in the new social media paradigm. We'll have to wait and see. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2021 10:56:06 GMT -5
I have no issue with him doing whatever he and his family think is best for him. He's got a dream. So, go out and do what you can to achieve it. Nothing wrong with that. Maybe it's a pipedream. But...it's not like he's getting ten minutes a game at a bad program. It's not a crazy dream. But it's a two way street. No one should expect fans of the program to do anything but support the guys who choose to be here. And it can't be a shock that many will rail against those that choose to go elsewhere. Rational, irrational, or otherwise. He will find a decent (at minimum) team in a major conference that promises him around 30 mpg. He will get his shots...because that's what he does. And none of it will matter a lick to the Georgetown Hoyas. I wouldn't expect the average Georgetown fan to root for Mac once he left, and I get that most are rooting for him to fail. That is not surprising. The strange part is that people are trying to somehow insist he made a mistake leaving Georgetown, when clearly he did not. He started every game, missed 0 games with injury, won a couple of major awards, had his best overall statistical season to date, played in the tournament, and played for a team that was in the top 25 every week of the season for the first time in school history. Yet the best reason people can come up with that he made a mistake is that Ewing could have thrown his weight around and got him on some bottom feeder Euro league team if he had stayed. It's also strange that so many people are questioning the decision to enter the NBA Draft and the transfer portal. It's literally the smartest thing he could do, yet people act like he's got "handlers" giving him bad advice. He does not have handlers, he's not getting advice from random money grubbing family members and friends.... and the decision to enter both the draft and portal was easily his best move. I have yet to hear an actual reason why that was a bad decision. By comparison, Akinjo, who also entered the draft, and also has little chance of being drafted, has little to no people commenting on how draftable he is or what a mistake it was that he's entering the draft, or questioning the "advice" of people who are in his ear that certainly have a far more vested interest in him making money playing pro ball than anyone in Mac's corner does. So what's the difference between the two? Both are in the draft, neither is likely to be selected, both transferred from Georgetown, both are for the most part unliked. Why is one guys draft prospects so interesting to people who claim to both not like him, yet not care about him, while the other guy is of little to no interest? I mean Cindad even makes a point to say he's not a McClung fan, claims to I believe be a Michigan fan, yet says he watched 10 TT games this year and of his 40 or so posts on this board at least half or more are centered on McClung. The obsession people who claim to not like or care about McClung have with his future NBA prospects is very odd. Mac courts the attention, James does not. This is what comes with it. This thread is 180 pages long because from the start he has always been a hot topic. It's not complicated, or some wild conspiracy. I mean, look at you. You're not even a Georgetown fan and here you are responding to every slight a year after he left. The only reason why you come here is for this. That's fine, but James doesn't have people like that, and he plays in a conference that most people on the east coast never see. |
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 14, 2021 22:20:33 GMT -5
I wouldn't expect the average Georgetown fan to root for Mac once he left, and I get that most are rooting for him to fail. That is not surprising. The strange part is that people are trying to somehow insist he made a mistake leaving Georgetown, when clearly he did not. He started every game, missed 0 games with injury, won a couple of major awards, had his best overall statistical season to date, played in the tournament, and played for a team that was in the top 25 every week of the season for the first time in school history. Yet the best reason people can come up with that he made a mistake is that Ewing could have thrown his weight around and got him on some bottom feeder Euro league team if he had stayed. It's also strange that so many people are questioning the decision to enter the NBA Draft and the transfer portal. It's literally the smartest thing he could do, yet people act like he's got "handlers" giving him bad advice. He does not have handlers, he's not getting advice from random money grubbing family members and friends.... and the decision to enter both the draft and portal was easily his best move. I have yet to hear an actual reason why that was a bad decision. By comparison, Akinjo, who also entered the draft, and also has little chance of being drafted, has little to no people commenting on how draftable he is or what a mistake it was that he's entering the draft, or questioning the "advice" of people who are in his ear that certainly have a far more vested interest in him making money playing pro ball than anyone in Mac's corner does. So what's the difference between the two? Both are in the draft, neither is likely to be selected, both transferred from Georgetown, both are for the most part unliked. Why is one guys draft prospects so interesting to people who claim to both not like him, yet not care about him, while the other guy is of little to no interest? I mean Cindad even makes a point to say he's not a McClung fan, claims to I believe be a Michigan fan, yet says he watched 10 TT games this year and of his 40 or so posts on this board at least half or more are centered on McClung. The obsession people who claim to not like or care about McClung have with his future NBA prospects is very odd. Mac courts the attention, James does not. This is what comes with it. This thread is 180 pages long because from the start he has always been a hot topic. It's not complicated, or some wild conspiracy theory. I mean, look at you. You're not even a Georgetown fan and here you are responding to every slight a year after he left. The only reason why you come here is for this. That's fine, but James doesn't have people like that, and he plays in a conference that most people on the east coast never see. Correction, he was a two year rental Georgetown fan. And a one year rental Texas Tech fan. |
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Post by cindad on Apr 15, 2021 15:29:20 GMT -5
I wouldn't expect the average Georgetown fan to root for Mac once he left, and I get that most are rooting for him to fail. That is not surprising. The strange part is that people are trying to somehow insist he made a mistake leaving Georgetown, when clearly he did not. He started every game, missed 0 games with injury, won a couple of major awards, had his best overall statistical season to date, played in the tournament, and played for a team that was in the top 25 every week of the season for the first time in school history. Yet the best reason people can come up with that he made a mistake is that Ewing could have thrown his weight around and got him on some bottom feeder Euro league team if he had stayed. It's also strange that so many people are questioning the decision to enter the NBA Draft and the transfer portal. It's literally the smartest thing he could do, yet people act like he's got "handlers" giving him bad advice. He does not have handlers, he's not getting advice from random money grubbing family members and friends.... and the decision to enter both the draft and portal was easily his best move. I have yet to hear an actual reason why that was a bad decision. By comparison, Akinjo, who also entered the draft, and also has little chance of being drafted, has little to no people commenting on how draftable he is or what a mistake it was that he's entering the draft, or questioning the "advice" of people who are in his ear that certainly have a far more vested interest in him making money playing pro ball than anyone in Mac's corner does. So what's the difference between the two? Both are in the draft, neither is likely to be selected, both transferred from Georgetown, both are for the most part unliked. Why is one guys draft prospects so interesting to people who claim to both not like him, yet not care about him, while the other guy is of little to no interest? I mean Cindad even makes a point to say he's not a McClung fan, claims to I believe be a Michigan fan, yet says he watched 10 TT games this year and of his 40 or so posts on this board at least half or more are centered on McClung. The obsession people who claim to not like or care about McClung have with his future NBA prospects is very odd. The thing is nobody cares about Akinjo. That's why his decision is not being discussed. Mac can afford to Edited off fan bases (Rutgers, Hoyas, Texas Tech) because really his fans are his youtube/Instagram loyal followers. Is it short sighted. Possibly, if he doesn't make it in the NBA and he doesn't have a school to fall back on or be a part of. Or it could be forward thinking in the new social media paradigm. We'll have to wait and see. Also another thing, is if you say Akinjo isn't a NBA player no one will fight you on that. No one sees him as a NBA player. Now if you tell me he went to the G-League or overseas toils around and gets in the league in 2024, he still made the NBA. But come on most people when they say 'This is a NBA Player' they mean this year MAYBE next. Up until 2 hours ago there was hope Livers would come back for Michigan because he is at best being drafted 55 or later and getting a UDFA deal. Flip side Wagner is as good as gone, only thing that keeps him in school is his brother came back for an 'unneeded' 3rd year. What 'he who will not be named' gets is the craziest thing; if you don't see this guy is a NBA player its warfare. I literally say on multiple forums, I have seen multiple Cade Cunningham HS games, I have seen him at OK St, 10-12 times. I don't think he is a #1 pick, and I don't think he is a future NBA starter. I don't get downvoted, I don't get attacked. I just am not feeling his game. I like Suggs, Green, and Todd (stock fell but he will be a solid pro) again. Thats my opinion. On this board last year, someone said they were speaking Akinjo's uncle at MSG, and he said, this is his last year at Georgetown because he was entering the draft either way. People found that laughable. I found it laughable. I could find an Akinjo highlight video on YT right now, and say 'I hope he knows how to speak Mandarin' and literally no one would comment, upvote, downvote or anything. Because, everyone understands thats the most likely case for his career. I commented on a Emoni Bates highlight a few weeks ago, and I said, he has been unimpressive this year, he isn't as good as advertised. Some people agreed with me, because everyone gets this is a weird year, but the games you have seen you don't leave saying '10 time NBA All-Star, Emoni Bates'. Mind you he was considered the #1 player in the country regardless of class this time last year as a sophomore. So not to feel like you just saw a stud, everytime you pop on the game, is a problem. |
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 15, 2021 15:44:26 GMT -5
The thing is nobody cares about Akinjo. That's why his decision is not being discussed. Mac can afford to Edited off fan bases (Rutgers, Hoyas, Texas Tech) because really his fans are his youtube/Instagram loyal followers. Is it short sighted. Possibly, if he doesn't make it in the NBA and he doesn't have a school to fall back on or be a part of. Or it could be forward thinking in the new social media paradigm. We'll have to wait and see. Also another thing, is if you say Akinjo isn't a NBA player no one will fight you on that. No one sees him as a NBA player. Now if you tell me he went to the G-League or overseas toils around and gets in the league in 2024, he still made the NBA. But come on most people when they say 'This is a NBA Player' they mean this year MAYBE next. Up until 2 hours ago there was hope Livers would come back for Michigan because he is at best being drafted 55 or later and getting a UDFA deal. Flip side Wagner is as good as gone, only thing that keeps him in school is his brother came back for an 'unneeded' 3rd year. What 'he who will not be named' gets is the craziest thing; if you don't see this guy is a NBA player its warfare. I literally say on multiple forums, I have seen multiple Cade Cunningham HS games, I have seen him at OK St, 10-12 times. I don't think he is a #1 pick, and I don't think he is a future NBA starter. I don't get downvoted, I don't get attacked. I just am not feeling his game. I like Suggs, Green, and Todd (stock fell but he will be a solid pro) again. Thats my opinion. On this board last year, someone said they were speaking Akinjo's uncle at MSG, and he said, this is his last year at Georgetown because he was entering the draft either way. People found that laughable. I found it laughable. I could find an Akinjo highlight video on YT right now, and say 'I hope he knows how to speak Mandarin' and literally no one would comment, upvote, downvote or anything. Because, everyone understands thats the most likely case for his career. I commented on a Emoni Bates highlight a few weeks ago, and I said, he has been unimpressive this year, he isn't as good as advertised. Some people agreed with me, because everyone gets this is a weird year, but the games you have seen you don't leave saying '10 time NBA All-Star, Emoni Bates'. Mind you he was considered the #1 player in the country regardless of class this time last year as a sophomore. So not to feel like you just saw a stud, everytime you pop on the game, is a problem. Yeah I agree on Cade. I heard all this hype on him and then watched some of his game's and am like how is this guy #1 overall. |
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 15, 2021 18:19:01 GMT -5
Can Mac even transfer to UT since it's in conference?
I thought there was some rule in the Big East that you couldn't transfer in conference which is why we aren't even looking at any Big East portal transfers.
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hoyas212
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Post by hoyas212 on Apr 15, 2021 21:26:41 GMT -5
Regarding the difference in interest and number of comments between Mac vs. James declaring for the draft, the circumstances around their departures might have something to do with that. It was clear that the pairing had on and off court problems that wouldn't be resolved and that they wouldn't be together beyond their sophomore seasons at best. When Mac won the war of attrition after James' transfer, his trajectory and incentive to stay seemed to improve. Mac's role increased and the team immediately went on to a great 6-0 finish of the non conference schedule including wins over Oklahoma State, Syracuse, and a pretty decent SMU team. There have been suggestions that Mac's injury wasn't handled correctly, but the prevailing perception seems to be that Mac left a more promising situation than James did. And Mac has made comments since leaving that many took to be implicit digs at the Georgetown program, and James hasn't. And as mentioned, despite both transferring to programs/locations/conferences that aren't on most GU fans' radars, most Hoya fans are probably more conscious of Mac because he courts attention and James does not. Think it's fair to say there is more ill will towards Mac than James amongst Hoya fans.
Both should declare for the draft, there are far lesser prospects that declare every year. But they are both very long shots to ever get drafted or play in the NBA. Neither has the ideal size the NBA is looking for. They are both ball dominant at the NCAA level, but would be role players at best at the NBA level. If a 6'2 scorer like Myles Powell hasn't been able to get on a NBA roster, Mac is lightyears away from cracking a roster. And he's shown little aptitude as a point guard. James had a nice season, first team all conference in the underrated PAC-12 and career highs in points, assists, field goal and 3 point percentage. If he can continue to improve his 3 point shooting, distributing, and defense, he might be able to carve out a role as a back up pg. But for this year, it's hard to envision him making a roster over other potential 2nd round/undrafted pg prospects like RJ Nembhard, Mann, Nix, Cooper, or even Zegarowski. It would be great if a team brought in both Mac and James for a workout at the same time.
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Post by cgallstar02 on Apr 15, 2021 23:55:06 GMT -5
Can Mac even transfer to UT since it's in conference? I thought there was some rule in the Big East that you couldn't transfer in conference which is why we aren't even looking at any Big East portal transfers. Yes you can transfer in conference. Micah Peavy of TT has already transferred to TCU who is also in the Big 12. That said, if Mac actually withdraws from the draft and plays a 4th year, it's highly unlikely it would be at Texas. They've already added a scorer in Timmy Allen and a PG in Devin Askew via the portal and Andrew Jones is returning to play SG. I guess if Ramey decides to transfer, he could go small with Askew, Jones, and Mac... but it just seems there would be better fits and opportunities for Mac than Texas. The SEC seems to play at a faster pace than the rest of the Power 6 conferences... he had Auburn and Arkansas in his top 7 last year, so maybe one of them or even a Leblanc reunion at LSU... Cam Thomas had about as much free reign as I've seen given to a freshman on a halfway decent team, so he could definitely get shots up there. Kentucky is a bit of long shot and I think would be a bad move, but you never know, and he is very close friends with Oscar Tsheibwe who transferred there. |
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Post by cgallstar02 on Apr 16, 2021 0:38:25 GMT -5
Regarding the difference in interest and number of comments between Mac vs. James declaring for the draft, the circumstances around their departures might have something to do with that. It was clear that the pairing had on and off court problems that wouldn't be resolved and that they wouldn't be together beyond their sophomore seasons at best. When Mac won the war of attrition after James' transfer, his trajectory and incentive to stay seemed to improve. Mac's role increased and the team immediately went on to a great 6-0 finish of the non conference schedule including wins over Oklahoma State, Syracuse, and a pretty decent SMU team. There have been suggestions that Mac's injury wasn't handled correctly, but the prevailing perception seems to be that Mac left a more promising situation than James did. And Mac has made comments since leaving that many took to be implicit digs at the Georgetown program, and James hasn't. And as mentioned, despite both transferring to programs/locations/conferences that aren't on most GU fans' radars, most Hoya fans are probably more conscious of Mac because he courts attention and James does not. Think it's fair to say there is more ill will towards Mac than James amongst Hoya fans. Both should declare for the draft, there are far lesser prospects that declare every year. But they are both very long shots to ever get drafted or play in the NBA. Neither has the ideal size the NBA is looking for. They are both ball dominant at the NCAA level, but would be role players at best at the NBA level. If a 6'2 scorer like Myles Powell hasn't been able to get on a NBA roster, Mac is lightyears away from cracking a roster. And he's shown little aptitude as a point guard. James had a nice season, first team all conference in the underrated PAC-12 and career highs in points, assists, field goal and 3 point percentage. If he can continue to improve his 3 point shooting, distributing, and defense, he might be able to carve out a role as a back up pg. But for this year, it's hard to envision him making a roster over other potential 2nd round/undrafted pg prospects like RJ Nembhard, Mann, Nix, Cooper, or even Zegarowski. It would be great if a team brought in both Mac and James for a workout at the same time. The thing is, no one knows. The so called experts had Trevon Duvall as the 2nd best PG in the country in 2017, they had Ja Morant ranked like the #370 best player in the country. I'm sure if you got their expert opinions they would've told you what a great shooter Duvall is, how he really knows how to run a team, great passer, etc. Then Ja would've been good athlete, wild, no pg skills, takes bad shots, can't shoot good, can't defend, blah blah blah. Well how did that work out? At the end of the day 30 guys go in the 1st round every year and at least half will wind up as busts. Many will be so called can't miss prospects that never live up to the hype. Then a bunch of under the radar guys that everyone said had all these flaws and had little to no chance of playing in the NBA or carving out a role there will end up doing just that. NBA teams probably spend 10's of millions of dollars on scouting every year, they have an entire team of guys who sole job is to evaluate these incoming college and foreign prospects... in spite of that, they still end up missing... not just missing, but missing extremely bad quite often. In fact, they miss probably more than they hit. So if professionals with all the resources in the world who spend all their time evaluating players can't even get it right 50% of the time, what would make me think some arm chair GM on a message board has any clue when it comes to the evaluation of future NBA talent? At the end of the day everyone is just guessing. As for Powell, I believe he's on a 2 way with the Bucks... it's way to early to say he's not an NBA player. Let's give him a year or two and see where he's at. And to compare his chances in the league to Mac's is silly. They're different players with different skill sets that will translate differently to the NBA game. Beyond that, situation can play just as much of a role in a guy's success. If Juzang had stayed at Kentucky he would've probably averaged 6 ppg on a sub .500 team... instead he transferred and wound up the leading scorer on a final four team with a good shot at getting drafted. Latching on with he right team/situation could be the difference for guys like Mac, James, and Myles to make it in the league or not. Getting the right team that believes in them... maybe some injuries or trades happen that open up an opportunity and the guy seizes it. Where as some guys might just never get the chance. |
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hoyas212
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Post by hoyas212 on Apr 16, 2021 7:19:06 GMT -5
In terms of pro prospects, who cares what anyone thought about Duval vs. Morant in high school? By the time they entered the draft, the consensus was completely changed, hence Duval going undrafted and Morant going #2 overall. You have a much better idea of prospects’ potential after playing NCAA competition and having more time to develop.
Mac’s done well for himself. Not many kids ranked 200+ make the kind of impact he has in college. But his NBA prospects are infinitesimal, he doesn’t have a NBA level skill like Myles Powell’s shooting ability. His best attribute is his ability to draw fouls, but in a decent pro league he would be facing high level defenders like Devo Davis who severely limited him in the NCAA tournament. And he wouldn’t get the usage to make that a relevant skill anyway.
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 16, 2021 7:22:37 GMT -5
So if professionals with all the resources in the world who spend all their time evaluating players can't even get it right 50% of the time, what would make me think some arm chair GM on a message board has any clue when it comes to the evaluation of future NBA talent? At the end of the day everyone is just guessing. ; I would disagree with this. There are alot of people in the industry who got in because of nepotism or some kind of in. Even successful guys like Spoelstra or Josh McDaneils/Belicheck got in through family connections. The Video Coordinator position is the usual launching pad for these guys. Look at someone like David Khan who drafted 3 point guards in the first round of one draft including the #5 and #6 overall picks (and somehow didn't pick point guard Steph Curry at #7 overall in that same draft). That kind of incompetence is rampant in pro sports. There are some brilliant guys like Jerry West and Sam Presti but there is an awful lot of incompetence in terms of talent evaluation among the so called "experts" in the NBA. There are plenty of arm chair experts who actually would do a much better job than these entitled guys if given a chance. |
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hoyas212
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 324
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Post by hoyas212 on Apr 16, 2021 8:54:17 GMT -5
So if professionals with all the resources in the world who spend all their time evaluating players can't even get it right 50% of the time, what would make me think some arm chair GM on a message board has any clue when it comes to the evaluation of future NBA talent? At the end of the day everyone is just guessing. ; I would disagree with this. There are alot of people in the industry who got in because of nepotism or some kind of in. Even successful guys like Spoelstra or Josh McDaneils/Belicheck got in through family connections. The Video Coordinator position is the usual launching pad for these guys. Look at someone like David Khan who drafted 3 point guards in the first round of one draft including the #5 and #6 overall picks (and somehow didn't pick point guard Steph Curry at #7 overall in that same draft). That kind of incompetence is rampant in pro sports. There are some brilliant guys like Jerry West and Sam Presti but there is an awful lot of incompetence in terms of talent evaluation among the so called "experts" in the NBA. There are plenty of arm chair experts who actually would do a much better job than these entitled guys if given a chance. Not to mention the whole premise is just moronic. The professionals get it right very often, way more than 50% of the time. There are always exceptions, but the odds are very long. And those that do beat the odds usually have a specialty that translates to the NBA like shooting, defense, or size and the rest of the game develops. Mac doesn’t do anything at a NBA level after his junior year. |
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Post by cgallstar02 on Apr 16, 2021 13:19:38 GMT -5
Not to mention the whole premise is just moronic. The professionals get it right very often, way more than 50% of the time. There are always exceptions, but the odds are very long. And those that do beat the odds usually have a specialty that translates to the NBA like shooting, defense, or size and the rest of the game develops. Mac doesn’t do anything at a NBA level after his junior year. So lets look at the 2018 draft. It's been 3 years, enough time to determine if a guy was hit or miss or if a team made the correct pick. Phoenix and Sac passed on Doncic... Atlanta picks him then trades him for Trae Young, not a bad consolation prize but still a mistake. Memphis picks Jaren Jackson over Trae. Bulls take Wendell Carter with at least 15 guys or more who have turned out better on the board. Collin Sexton was actually a good pick for Cleveland at 8. Knox terrible at 9. Bridges was a solid pick at 10 but Philly turned around and traded him to Phoenix for Zhaire Smith a huge bust. But we can give Phoenix a win here. So at best you got 3 teams... Dallas, Cleveland and Phoenix that made the correct pick. Im being generous with Phoenix as there was other guys better than Bridges available at 10 but he's still been a solid player for them. As good as Trae Young is, I can't give Atl credit cus he's not on Doncic level so while they got a very good player they still effed up big time. So by my math the top 10 got 30%... I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that it gets much worse from there. The second round had Gary Trent, Mitchell Robinson, Devonte Graham, Shake Milton, and Jalen Brunson... all have outperformed way more than half of the first round selections. On top of that the UDFA guys include Duncan Robinson, Kendrick Nunn and Jasean Tate... also ahead of more than half of the first round guys. So I'm no mathematician but in reality it looks like the NBA got it right probably less than 10% of the time. These are also the geniuses who took Bowie over Jordan, Oden over Durant, traded Tractor Traylor for Dirk... their list of epic failures is literally a mile long. I guess you're just an easy fan to please if you truly believe their hitting way more than 50% of the time on their picks. |
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Post by cgallstar02 on Apr 16, 2021 13:30:28 GMT -5
In terms of pro prospects, who cares what anyone thought about Duval vs. Morant in high school? By the time they entered the draft, the consensus was completely changed, hence Duval going undrafted and Morant going #2 overall. You have a much better idea of prospects’ potential after playing NCAA competition and having more time to develop. Mac’s done well for himself. Not many kids ranked 200+ make the kind of impact he has in college. But his NBA prospects are infinitesimal, he doesn’t have a NBA level skill like Myles Powell’s shooting ability. His best attribute is his ability to draw fouls, but in a decent pro league he would be facing high level defenders like Devo Davis who severely limited him in the NCAA tournament. And he wouldn’t get the usage to make that a relevant skill anyway. It's called an example of how off the scouts often are. You can easily carry that example over to the NBA by comparing lottery busts who did nothing to later draft picks who became studs. I shouldn't have to explain this to you. And where is this notion that Myles Powell is an NBA shooter and Mac is not coming from? Powell shot 30% from 3 as a senior and under 40% from the field. Conversely Mac was 34% and 42% as a junior. |
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Post by cgallstar02 on Apr 16, 2021 13:41:30 GMT -5
So if professionals with all the resources in the world who spend all their time evaluating players can't even get it right 50% of the time, what would make me think some arm chair GM on a message board has any clue when it comes to the evaluation of future NBA talent? At the end of the day everyone is just guessing. ; I would disagree with this. There are alot of people in the industry who got in because of nepotism or some kind of in. Even successful guys like Spoelstra or Josh McDaneils/Belicheck got in through family connections. The Video Coordinator position is the usual launching pad for these guys. Look at someone like David Khan who drafted 3 point guards in the first round of one draft including the #5 and #6 overall picks (and somehow didn't pick point guard Steph Curry at #7 overall in that same draft). That kind of incompetence is rampant in pro sports. There are some brilliant guys like Jerry West and Sam Presti but there is an awful lot of incompetence in terms of talent evaluation among the so called "experts" in the NBA. There are plenty of arm chair experts who actually would do a much better job than these entitled guys if given a chance. My reference was more in terms of scouting departments, as those are the guys who's sole job it is is to evaluate these incoming players. Obviously the GM makes the final selection but it is with the information and advice from the scouting departments that will influence that decision. And yes I agree with you about the incompetence part. Which was exactly my point. That NBA teams are clueless for the most part when it comes to evaluating talent. So I guess we are in agreement there. |
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hoyas212
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 324
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Post by hoyas212 on Apr 16, 2021 14:56:37 GMT -5
Not to mention the whole premise is just moronic. The professionals get it right very often, way more than 50% of the time. There are always exceptions, but the odds are very long. And those that do beat the odds usually have a specialty that translates to the NBA like shooting, defense, or size and the rest of the game develops. Mac doesn’t do anything at a NBA level after his junior year. So lets look at the 2018 draft. It's been 3 years, enough time to determine if a guy was hit or miss or if a team made the correct pick. Phoenix and Sac passed on Doncic... Atlanta picks him then trades him for Trae Young, not a bad consolation prize but still a mistake. Memphis picks Jaren Jackson over Trae. Bulls take Wendell Carter with at least 15 guys or more who have turned out better on the board. Collin Sexton was actually a good pick for Cleveland at 8. Knox terrible at 9. Bridges was a solid pick at 10 but Philly turned around and traded him to Phoenix for Zhaire Smith a huge bust. But we can give Phoenix a win here. So at best you got 3 teams... Dallas, Cleveland and Phoenix that made the correct pick. Im being generous with Phoenix as there was other guys better than Bridges available at 10 but he's still been a solid player for them. As good as Trae Young is, I can't give Atl credit cus he's not on Doncic level so while they got a very good player they still effed up big time. So by my math the top 10 got 30%... I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that it gets much worse from there. The second round had Gary Trent, Mitchell Robinson, Devonte Graham, Shake Milton, and Jalen Brunson... all have outperformed way more than half of the first round selections. On top of that the UDFA guys include Duncan Robinson, Kendrick Nunn and Jasean Tate... also ahead of more than half of the first round guys. So I'm no mathematician but in reality it looks like the NBA got it right probably less than 10% of the time. These are also the geniuses who took Bowie over Jordan, Oden over Durant, traded Tractor Traylor for Dirk... their list of epic failures is literally a mile long. I guess you're just an easy fan to please if you truly believe their hitting way more than 50% of the time on their picks. Judging from your nonsensical arguments, I’m guessing you didn’t go to Georgetown and are just a Gate City fan boy. PHX and SAC passing on Doncic doesn’t mean they missed on evaluating him. Everyone knew he was a high level prospect, probably many in their organizations wanted to pick him. Jalen Brunson was the 3rd pick of the 2nd round, it’s no surprise to see him outperform players picked in the first round. And teams looking for a guard in the back half of the first round we’re probably discussing picking Brunson. You seem to think drafting should be an exact science, it never has been and never will be. There are a lot of variables. Warren Buffet has made bad investments. Every year, there are players in every sport that perform way above or below their draft slot. By and large, the teams do a really good job of identifying the best prospects as a group. Sorry, but Mac is on the fringe of their radar. Doesn’t mean he’ll never make a NBA roster, but it is highly unlikely. After his junior year, his age is now starting to work against him and he hasn’t shown a NBA level skill, certainly not one to the extent that it can compensate for his deficiencies. IG and Tiktok followers don’t count. |
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,605
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Post by prhoya on Apr 16, 2021 17:02:42 GMT -5
Are you Mac’s dad? Really, what is your relationship to him? Why is he so important to you?
We don’t care. He’s not important to GU.
Time will tell if he makes it to the NBA or not. If not, there’s always China, where he will be a novelty and a rockstar, or the Harlem Globetrotters, although he would have to learn to dribble and to pass at their level. I was surprised as how bad his dribble was when penetrating, and Mac is allergic to passing and defense.
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 19,458
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Post by SSHoya on Apr 16, 2021 17:22:18 GMT -5
Are you Mac’s dad? Really, what is your relationship to him? Why is he so important to you? We don’t care. He’s not important to GU. Time will tell if he makes it to the NBA or not. If not, there’s always China, where he will be a novelty and a rockstar, or the Harlem Globetrotters, although he would have to learn to dribble and to pass at their level. I was surprised as how bad his dribble was when penetrating, and Mac is allergic to passing and defense. Mac's 的控球技巧并非应有的全部 ("Mac's ballhandling skills aren't what they should be.") |
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Post by cgallstar02 on Apr 16, 2021 17:25:43 GMT -5
Judging from your nonsensical arguments, I’m guessing you didn’t go to Georgetown and are just a Gate City fan boy. PHX and SAC passing on Doncic doesn’t mean they missed on evaluating him. Everyone knew he was a high level prospect, probably many in their organizations wanted to pick him. Jalen Brunson was the 3rd pick of the 2nd round, it’s no surprise to see him outperform players picked in the first round. And teams looking for a guard in the back half of the first round we’re probably discussing picking Brunson. You seem to think drafting should be an exact science, it never has been and never will be. There are a lot of variables. Warren Buffet has made bad investments. Every year, there are players in every sport that perform way above or below their draft slot. By and large, the teams do a really good job of identifying the best prospects as a group. Sorry, but Mac is on the fringe of their radar. Doesn’t mean he’ll never make a NBA roster, but it is highly unlikely. After his junior year, his age is now starting to work against him and he hasn’t shown a NBA level skill, certainly not one to the extent that it can compensate for his deficiencies. IG and Tiktok followers don’t count. So not picking Doncic doesn't mean they missed on him? In what world are you living? So if 2 years ago someone told you to put all your money in Tesla stock and you ignored them and bought something that's only grown minimally or even lost money since then, are your finances going to reflect what you did or what you could've and should've done? If you took a marginal player like Bagley over Doncic, you missed... badly at that. And even trading Doncic for Trae, despite Trae's success was still a miss for Atl. I mean are you really trying to argue that picking Bagley over Doncic is not a miss because maybe some people in the organization wanted Doncic? If a Georgetown education get's you smarts like that, you can definitely keep it. Hope you're not still paying off your student loans. And yes everyone knew Doncic was a high level prospect, hence why he was a top 5 pick in every mock draft out there. That said, guys like Bagley and Jaren Jackson were considered just as high level of prospects... the fact is, all the so called experts out there were unable to discern much of a difference between those 3 prospects when clearly there was a major difference between Luka and the other 2. As for Warren Buffet, of course he makes mistakes, but given his success I think it's safe to say that he's right far more often than he's wrong. Which goes back to my original point, that even with all the time, money, and resources NBA teams spend on scouting these players, they fail far more often than they succeed when making their choices. And no, I don't think drafting should be an exact science, which again was my point to begin with... not only is it not an exact science, it's not even remotely close to being exact. If I looked at a draft from 10 years ago, reordered it based on how each guy has succeeded, put those 60 names in a hat and reordered it again based on each name I picked in order, the results would probably not be much worse off than how the NBA teams actually picked it. So literally picking at random you could do almost as good as these guys do. That's not a knock on them, it's just proof that it's virtually impossible to tell whose game is going to translate to the next level and whose isn't. |
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