hoyainla
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Suspended
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Post by hoyainla on Feb 26, 2018 22:19:17 GMT -5
I'm not going to get into this argument again but I believe we have more talent than most of these mid to lower BE teams so yes. Jessie and Marcus are as good as any tandem in the BE outside of Nova and in college that is big. That said Pat gets the guys to play hard every time so that helps with being in most games. We also seem to come out with a good game plan. Its the second half when other team adjust and we dont seem to. Tonights perimeter defense for as a glaring example. Then why did you respond to my post directed at JUST IN? That makes no sense... He gets them to play hard for 36 minutes and then he fails them? The offense bogs down late because they're trying to get the ball to that very good tandem. Neither one of them can go get the ball and make a play like Rousey did over and over again... So this is what you get. The next time we run an end game high low with our two best players it will be our first. It's not rocket science. We have even went away from the simple pick and pop lately when it matters. It's quite frustrating.
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saxagael
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by saxagael on Feb 26, 2018 22:19:43 GMT -5
Ah, a basketball noob. Starks was Patricks point for the Knicks good years. Starks was the 2-guard. Mark Jackson and Doc Rivers, Harper, and then later Chris Childs/Charley Ward were his PG's. I think of Starks as a point as I was in SF and was a long time Golden State fan. He was drafted when Mitch Richmond was shooting guard, so a lot of the time he did see with Run TMC was as point. When he got to the Knicks he has started out at point and shifted back to his more natural 2 spot.
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Feb 26, 2018 22:20:23 GMT -5
Some folks must have raised their expectations on this team when we beat SHU and Butler in basically the same manner we have been losing games. When every game is close, eventually the ball bounces your way, see SHU/Butler; but many times the more talented team will win.
Coach Ewing has done more than I thought possible with this group of misfits. We have deep, structural flaws and winning a few close games did not change that. We were picked a distant 9th in this conference by the coaches for real reasons. In December, I was worried we would not be able to compete in the BE and have a historically bad season.
These players have competed and fought well above their weight class in most games. Yes, the end game situations have been tough, but let's not ignore that the team earns their way into those tight, late-game situations against better teams. I understand the frustration, but this is very,very early in the Coach Ewing era, it will get better.
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
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Post by This Just In on Feb 26, 2018 22:21:35 GMT -5
What do I have to do with Glide? What are you talking about dc? Nothing really. No ill intent meant.Both of you please accept my apology!! This is frustrating. We have a talent issue, and you seem aware of talent. I hoping some thing good comes our way. You dont normally say a lot about in-game stuff. Patrick is going through a learning curve just like the players. But on the court, players make the difference Watching us play, U am waiting for the team to exercise baf decions or be unable to make plays, across the board. Again, please accept my apology...both of you! People are posting after a loss, the board gets a little testy. I am sure both will accept your apology.
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
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Post by This Just In on Feb 26, 2018 22:23:15 GMT -5
Then why did you respond to my post directed at JUST IN? That makes no sense... He gets them to play hard for 36 minutes and then he fails them? The offense bogs down late because they're trying to get the ball to that very good tandem. Neither one of them can go get the ball and make a play like Rousey did over and over again... So this is what you get. The next time we run an end game high low with our two best players it will be our first. It's not rocket science. We have even went away from the simple pick and pop lately when it matters. It's quite frustrating. Why do you think this offensive set has not been run to date?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2018 22:26:38 GMT -5
How do we end up being in so many games late with such poor coaching? Is our talent level really good and the coach holding them back, or? The team is 4-8 in games where the score is 5pts and less with 4 mins to play I think the majority of people would say it is a combination of both. The coaching has not gotten the players over the hump and the players have not been able to get the coaching over the hump. Your post seems to excuse coaching blowing leads in games with under 1 min left to play. You put those losses only on the players? No coach is perfect but what you're describing isn't necessarily a coaching deficiency. If this team had Markel Starks do you think we would be 4-8 in games where the score is 5 pts with 4min of play? If so why?
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saxagael
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Post by saxagael on Feb 26, 2018 22:26:43 GMT -5
The next time we run an end game high low with our two best players it will be our first. It's not rocket science. We have even went away from the simple pick and pop lately when it matters. It's quite frustrating. Why do you think this offensive set has not been run to date? It hasn't been run as it has largely been covered. Other teams are looking for it. Govan tonight got his 3s as a trailer not half court play. When Govan or Derrickson drift to the top the defense is there with them. Derrickson has someone on him tightly much of the time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2018 22:29:06 GMT -5
Then why did you respond to my post directed at JUST IN? That makes no sense... He gets them to play hard for 36 minutes and then he fails them? The offense bogs down late because they're trying to get the ball to that very good tandem. Neither one of them can go get the ball and make a play like Rousey did over and over again... So this is what you get. The next time we run an end game high low with our two best players it will be our first. It's not rocket science. We have even went away from the simple pick and pop lately when it matters. It's quite frustrating. Ok, but that's not true though....
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Feb 26, 2018 22:29:43 GMT -5
Plus/minus for tonight's game, as calculated from the play-by-play posted at guhoyas.com:
Blair +15, Derrickson +11, Dickerson +4, Mosely -6, Govan -7, Mulmore -8, Pickett -11, Johnson -18, Hines DNP/coach's decision, Muresan DNP/coach's decision, Walker DNP/coach's decision.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2018 22:31:25 GMT -5
What do I have to do with Glide? What are you talking about dc? Nothing really. No ill intent meant.Both of you please accept my apology!! This is frustrating. We have a talent issue, and you seem aware of talent. I'm hoping some thing good comes our way. You dont normally say a lot about in-game stuff. Patrick is going through a learning curve just like the players. But on the court, players make the difference Watching us play, I am waiting for the team to exercise bad decions or be unable to make plays, across the board. It seems inevitable no matter how many points we're up. Again, please accept my apology...both of you! You don't need to apologize DC... I didn't understand what you were trying to say, so I asked... All good..
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mfk24
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by mfk24 on Feb 26, 2018 22:32:08 GMT -5
How do we end up being in so many games late with such poor coaching? Is our talent level really good and the coach holding them back, or? The team is 4-8 in games where the score is 5pts and less with 4 mins to play I think the majority of people would say it is a combination of both. The coaching has not gotten the players over the hump and the players have not been able to get the coaching over the hump. Your post seems to excuse coaching blowing leads in games with under 1 min left to play. You put those losses only on the players? I think a bit of both is fair. But good execution or better yet Individual talent makes up for a lot. I don’t think Cal is a particularly good coach, but his Kentucky teams have won on pure talent for a long time. If a coach, any coach, Ewing or otherwise, draws up a play, or implements a strategy and it works, he looks like a genius, and if it doesn’t he’s gonna get some of the blame. But why didn’t it work? Was it bad design or poor execution? For this team, watching Ewing on the sideline lay into these guys time and again, I mean he spends most of the game yelling at them when they make mistakes, I’d say it’s more of the latter. When the play pressure defense like he asks, we got stops, when we got the ball in the post we scored points, but it gets harder to do those things at the end of the game when adrenaline is running high and you’re feeling the pressure. And if we allow guys to do what comes natural to them you get more stuff like Blair’s runner in the lane on Saturday. I’d like to see what Ewing’s teams look like in a couple years when he’s got a roster full of his type of guys. That’ll be the true test IMO.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2018 22:32:54 GMT -5
How do we end up being in so many games late with such poor coaching? Is our talent level really good and the coach holding them back, or? I think Pat has done a great job in terms of pre-game preparation; that is, we have a purpose when we come into games and it looks like the guys have the conditioning to play at a higher level for longer than they did before. The overall attitude of the team has also gotten a lot better; a lot less sulking and blank stares this year even when things have gotten tough. That's a reflection of Pat and the will he has imposed on this team. Where he has struggled is coaching up his team to understand time, score and situation. Up 9 with basically the shot clock off at the end of the half, we can't go into half leading 6 there. Just can't. With a minute to go in regulation with the score tied, we run nearly the entire shot clock down instead of going 2 for 1 in the event of a miss. Were it not for Mulmore's heroics, clock management would've come into play there. And with 10 seconds left in OT down 4, you've got Dickerson jogging the ball up like he's taking a stroll in the park. Time. Score. Situation. We just aren't there yet. I don't think it's a talent issue; you don't need talent to understand these things. Can these things be coached up? Yes. But they haven't. They all share the blame here. Idk... I feel what you're saying, but I think the guys are pretty schooled in knowing they should take the last shot there. That's something you learn in middle school basketball but all of our shots have to come off sets, we can't just give the ball to a talented player and say wait until 8 seconds left and make a play like Marquette did with Hauser at the end of regulation. Ironically Hauser also left too much time on the clock and that led to Mulmore sending it into overtime..
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kbones17
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Post by kbones17 on Feb 26, 2018 22:38:49 GMT -5
Defense in crunch time. Should be Ewing's Priority #1. We get so caught up in Ewing's offensive philosophy, what about his defensive philosophy in crunch. These close games, the opposing team just make dagger shots against us. Even that 3 Marquette got at half time. We can't stop guys when it matters most it seems. Is it fatigue? Lack of athletes? Lack of talent? Watching Nova play, it's not like they are world-class athletes on that squad. Good sound fundamental ball players, yes. Great athletes that scream NBA? No. Same with UVA in the past, but not this year. So what is it? Mulmore showed his greatest strength on that play that sent it into overtime: straight away, north-south, Tyus Edney speed. This is his last year, and he played like it tonight. Props to the young man. This team is pretty bad defensively. They are not able to get stops when it matters most. This season has been encouraging and extremely frustrating at the same time. I credit PE for getting this team away from the huge foul disparity we saw towards the end of JT3’s run, but it is clear we need to really focus on recruiting good man to man defenders. I think Leblanc will help, not sure if McClung or Carter move the needle defensively. I think the coaching staff really need to come up with a more defined approach defensively. Right now we are just playing man to man (with mediocre to bad defenders) and hoping. That’s not going to get it done. We need to be able to win some games in 60 and 70’’s against good teams. You’re never just going to outscore teams consistently.
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Feb 26, 2018 22:42:05 GMT -5
Non-game observation. Not only Rodney Pryor but Jahidi White and Victor Page (again) at the game tonight.
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
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Post by This Just In on Feb 26, 2018 22:45:54 GMT -5
The team is 4-8 in games where the score is 5pts and less with 4 mins to play I think the majority of people would say it is a combination of both. The coaching has not gotten the players over the hump and the players have not been able to get the coaching over the hump. Your post seems to excuse coaching blowing leads in games with under 1 min left to play. You put those losses only on the players? No coach is perfect but what you're describing isn't necessarily a coaching deficiency. If this team had Markel Starks do you think we would be 4-8 in games where the score is 5 pts with 4min of play? If so why? To be honest with you, I do not know. I would lean that the team would have a better than a 4-8 record I know next year with have McClung coming and by all accounts his talent is better than what we have now. Therefore on paper the 4-8 record should improve. Though in the back of my mind I remember the fan fare that Campbell, Peak, Copeland and White came into the program with and that group produced 1 winning season in 3 years under JTIII (and yes, I remember Copeland & White left in year 2)
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adm1hoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 277
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Post by adm1hoya on Feb 26, 2018 22:47:57 GMT -5
Some folks must have raised their expectations on this team when we beat SHU and Butler in basically the same manner we have been losing games. When every game is close, eventually the ball bounces your way, see SHU/Butler; but many times the more talented team will win. Coach Ewing has done more than I thought possible with this group of misfits. We have deep, structural flaws and winning a few close games did not change that. We were picked a distant 9th in this conference by the coaches for real reasons. In December, I was worried we would not be able to compete in the BE and have a historically bad season. These players have competed and fought well above their weight class in most games. Yes, the end game situations have been tough, but let's not ignore that the team earns their way into those tight, late-game situations against better teams. I understand the frustration, but this is very,very early in the Coach Ewing era, it will get better. This.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 26, 2018 22:58:33 GMT -5
Not sure what to think at this point. You would think that the more close games we play, the better the players and coaches would be able to close out. But no.
We had one decent 4-day stretch against 2 middle-of-the-road teams, and 3 wins against the dregs of the conference. Almost all of our players are amazingly inconsistent, even Govan and Derrickson in stretches. I am not sure the team as a whole is much better than in late December/early January when we lost close games to Butler and Marquette.
Gonna be a loooong off season convincing ourselves that our recruiting class will give us a big lift.
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adm1hoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
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Post by adm1hoya on Feb 26, 2018 22:59:03 GMT -5
If we can make the NIT, the season would be a success, IMO. My expectations were very low coming into the season, and to have postseason play as a possibility, rings positive to my ears.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 26, 2018 23:03:15 GMT -5
If we can make the NIT, the season would be a success, IMO. My expectations were very low coming into the season, and to have postseason play as a possibility, rings positive to my ears. Doubtful that a total of 2 respectable wins gets us into the NIT.
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dchoya72
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by dchoya72 on Feb 26, 2018 23:04:04 GMT -5
Non-game observation. Not only Rodney Pryor but Jahidi White and Victor Page (again) at the game tonight. Jahidi's an aau coach, yes?
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