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Post by hobokenhoya on Feb 26, 2018 21:56:26 GMT -5
How do we end up being in so many games late with such poor coaching? Is our talent level really good and the coach holding them back, or? I think Pat has done a great job in terms of pre-game preparation; that is, we have a purpose when we come into games and it looks like the guys have the conditioning to play at a higher level for longer than they did before. The overall attitude of the team has also gotten a lot better; a lot less sulking and blank stares this year even when things have gotten tough. That's a reflection of Pat and the will he has imposed on this team. Where he has struggled is coaching up his team to understand time, score and situation. Up 9 with basically the shot clock off at the end of the half, we can't go into half leading 6 there. Just can't. With a minute to go in regulation with the score tied, we run nearly the entire shot clock down instead of going 2 for 1 in the event of a miss. Were it not for Mulmore's heroics, clock management would've come into play there. And with 10 seconds left in OT down 4, you've got Dickerson jogging the ball up like he's taking a stroll in the park. Time. Score. Situation. We just aren't there yet. I don't think it's a talent issue; you don't need talent to understand these things. Can these things be coached up? Yes. But they haven't. They all share the blame here. Amen. Spot freaking on.
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saxagael
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,901
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Post by saxagael on Feb 26, 2018 21:58:59 GMT -5
One of the things I keep mulling is Jonathan Starks and former Hoyas have guard camp this summer. In the early 90s there was big man camp at Georgetown when playing on the courts outside McDonough we would see Patrick, Mutumbo, and Mourning drive up and go in after the Hoya's big men arrived 15 to 30 minutes prior. It was a fraternity of big men helping each other in hot sticky days of August. Patrick can't be in there, but if former Hoya guards came out and someone like Starks (dang I hated him as a Knick) happened to wander in and play it could really help.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
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Post by the_way on Feb 26, 2018 22:00:57 GMT -5
Just another true pount guard. Doesn't have to be nba level but that would be nice I want to believe this, but I keep thinking it is going to take more than that. JTIII had Chris Wright and Markel Starks and their greatest post season achievement was getting to the BET Finals. Bingo. And Wright and Starks were both better/more talented than Jon Wallace. Yet Wallace's teams accomplished more. Of course we know why.
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Hoya Rich
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 205
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Post by Hoya Rich on Feb 26, 2018 22:00:59 GMT -5
These close losses are just brutal-- we are 1-4 now in OT games-- but I'll confess to thinking prior to the season we wouldn't be very competitive and would get blown out a LOT. But it's happened, what, twice? So in a weird way, I'm encouraged by all of these heart-attack games. It's painful but I have to believe it's also character-building. The players have to be learning from this. The coach has to be learning from this. If it continues to happen even when we add more talent the next couple years, I'll be worried. But right now I come away from these games thinking, "Holy crap do we play hard." I honestly feel like Pat is getting the most out of these guys. There are lapses, absolutely, and those need to stop. But I think the team is better than the sum of its parts in many ways. We've watched some guys really develop and other guys who probably are at their limit and not going to get any better. That's what a team in rebuilding mode looks like sometimes.
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mdtd
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,567
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Post by mdtd on Feb 26, 2018 22:01:15 GMT -5
Again, it's so frustrating knowing that this team can compete with these schools who are playing postseason ball. Just once bounce of the ball different in 4-5 games and we are sitting pretty right now. If we could get a win in the BET against either Depaul or St.John's then great. Who knows, maybe we could gain momentum there and fully reach the potential this team has and take another game or two. But, this team is set up for success and that is what matters. Hopefully at this point next year we are talking what see\ed we will we in the NCAA tournament. Until then, let's finish this season strong!
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Post by hobokenhoya on Feb 26, 2018 22:01:22 GMT -5
One of the things I keep mulling is Jonathan Starks and former Hoyas have guard camp this summer. In the early 90s there was big man camp at Georgetown when playing on the courts outside McDonough we would see Patrick, Mutumbo, and Mourning drive up and go in after the Hoya's big men arrived 15 to 30 minutes prior. It was a fraternity of big men helping each other in hot sticky days of August. Patrick can't be in there, but if former Hoya guards came out and someone like Starks (dang I hated him as a Knick) happened to wander in and play it could really help. Who the F is “Jonathan Starks”? Did John Starks and Jonathan Mulmore have a baby?
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saxagael
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,901
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Post by saxagael on Feb 26, 2018 22:01:33 GMT -5
You mean shots didn't go, as shots were put up and fairly good one that just missed. Short shots missed by guards and Blair had a good set play with a cut under the lane for high wing 3 that just missed with under 3 seconds. Derrickson got blocked / fouled (not called) the play prior to that on his play inside, which would have tied it. I’m talking about the shot clock violation. Yep, that hurt. That was Mulmore not getting to where he should be when Derrickson double covered. Mulmore or whatever guard is up top or between the doubled player and out of bounds has to provide a good passing lane out as the 2nd defenders starts heading to double, not after they get then and the big inside is stuck.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2018 22:01:52 GMT -5
How do we end up being in so many games late with such poor coaching? Is our talent level really good and the coach holding them back, or? I'm not going to get into this argument again but I believe we have more talent than most of these mid to lower BE teams so yes. Jessie and Marcus are as good as any tandem in the BE outside of Nova and in college that is big. That said Pat gets the guys to play hard every time so that helps with being in most games. We also seem to come out with a good game plan. Its the second half when other team adjust and we dont seem to. Tonights perimeter defense for as a glaring example. Then why did you respond to my post directed at JUST IN? That makes no sense... He gets them to play hard for 36 minutes and then he fails them? The offense bogs down late because they're trying to get the ball to that very good tandem. Neither one of them can go get the ball and make a play like Rousey did over and over again... So this is what you get.
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mfk24
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,759
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Post by mfk24 on Feb 26, 2018 22:02:12 GMT -5
How do we end up being in so many games late with such poor coaching? Is our talent level really good and the coach holding them back, or? I'm not going to get into this argument again but I believe we have more talent than most of these mid to lower BE teams so yes. Jessie and Marcus are as good as any tandem in the BE outside of Nova and in college that is big. That said Pat gets the guys to play hard every time so that helps with being in most games. We also seem to come out with a good game plan. Its the second half when other team adjust and we dont seem to. Tonights perimeter defense for as a glaring example. The college game is dominated by guard play. It’s pretty simple. You can win a lot of games if all your bigs can do is run and jump, but you can’t win many games if you don’t have reliable ball handlers. Our two best players cannot create a shot for themselves so all that talent is effectively wasted if we can’t get them the ball. If you have a guy who can go and get his time and again, you’ll win more close games.
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,434
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Post by hoyarooter on Feb 26, 2018 22:03:52 GMT -5
This season has been soooo frustrating. On the plus side, we have been far more competitive than I would have expected. On the minus side, we've had huge problems closing the deal. Clock management was definitely an issue today, but I keep coming back (although not today) to our inability to get key rebounds with the game on the line. That just killed us over and over and over this year. I'm expecting better next year from everyone, including the coaches.
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saxagael
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,901
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Post by saxagael on Feb 26, 2018 22:04:25 GMT -5
One of the things I keep mulling is Jonathan Starks and former Hoyas have guard camp this summer. In the early 90s there was big man camp at Georgetown when playing on the courts outside McDonough we would see Patrick, Mutumbo, and Mourning drive up and go in after the Hoya's big men arrived 15 to 30 minutes prior. It was a fraternity of big men helping each other in hot sticky days of August. Patrick can't be in there, but if former Hoya guards came out and someone like Starks (dang I hated him as a Knick) happened to wander in and play it could really help. Who the F is “Jonathan Starks”? Did John Starks and Jonathan Mulmore have a baby? Ah, a basketball noob. Starks was Patricks point for the Knicks good years.
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,397
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Post by drquigley on Feb 26, 2018 22:04:39 GMT -5
How do we end up being in so many games late with such poor coaching? Is our talent level really good and the coach holding them back, or? I think Pat has done a great job in terms of pre-game preparation; that is, we have a purpose when we come into games and it looks like the guys have the conditioning to play at a higher level for longer than they did before. The overall attitude of the team has also gotten a lot better; a lot less sulking and blank stares this year even when things have gotten tough. That's a reflection of Pat and the will he has imposed on this team. Where he has struggled is coaching up his team to understand time, score and situation. Up 9 with basically the shot clock off at the end of the half, we can't go into half leading 6 there. Just can't. With a minute to go in regulation with the score tied, we run nearly the entire shot clock down instead of going 2 for 1 in the event of a miss. Were it not for Mulmore's heroics, clock management would've come into play there. And with 10 seconds left in OT down 4, you've got Dickerson jogging the ball up like he's taking a stroll in the park. Time. Score. Situation. We just aren't there yet. I don't think it's a talent issue; you don't need talent to understand these things. Can these things be coached up? Yes. But they haven't. They all share the blame here. If I remember from my Econ 101 classes there is a thing called the multiplier effect. Something that when added to the economy increases output by a factor greater than itself. That is what a good pg does and our lack of one is what is holding us back. If we had any one of the top BE pg's we'd easily be in consideration for a tourney bid. But we don't and we aren't.
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dchoya72
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,489
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Post by dchoya72 on Feb 26, 2018 22:08:35 GMT -5
The team is gassed... need conditioning and more talent.... On more than 9 scholarship players....... This team is severely void of talent on the perimeter, and we have no one to back-up Jesse or Marcus when they get tired of in foul trouble Thats the hand Patrick was dealt. He attarcted a liitle talent but not enough. He said this season would be rough, and it is.
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Post by hobokenhoya on Feb 26, 2018 22:09:02 GMT -5
Who the F is “Jonathan Starks”? Did John Starks and Jonathan Mulmore have a baby? Ah, a basketball noob. Starks was Patricks point for the Knicks good years. Omg. I was at the ‘93 conference finals game when Starks posterized Jordan, I’ve just never heard anyone call him “Jonathan Starks”, probably because nobody ever did. And he wasn’t a point guard, he was a 2 guard. Patrick had point guards from Rod Strickland, to Mark Jackson, to Doc Rivers, to Derek Harper, to Greg Anthony, but I’m sure you knew that, you encyclopedia of basketball knowledge, you! But thanks, you’re sweet.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
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Post by the_way on Feb 26, 2018 22:11:25 GMT -5
Defense in crunch time.
Should be Ewing's Priority #1.
We get so caught up in Ewing's offensive philosophy, what about his defensive philosophy in crunch.
These close games, the opposing team just make dagger shots against us. Even that 3 Marquette got at half time.
We can't stop guys when it matters most it seems. Is it fatigue? Lack of athletes? Lack of talent? Watching Nova play, it's not like they are world-class athletes on that squad. Good sound fundamental ball players, yes. Great athletes that scream NBA? No. Same with UVA in the past, but not this year.
So what is it?
Mulmore showed his greatest strength on that play that sent it into overtime: straight away, north-south, Tyus Edney speed. This is his last year, and he played like it tonight. Props to the young man.
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,592
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Post by This Just In on Feb 26, 2018 22:13:08 GMT -5
Need an NBA level guard, not a lottery pick level, but someone who can help overcome some of Pat's coaching deficiencies. How do we end up being in so many games late with such poor coaching? Is our talent level really good and the coach holding them back, or? The team is 4-8 in games where the score is 5pts and less with 4 mins to play I think the majority of people would say it is a combination of both. The coaching has not gotten the players over the hump and the players have not been able to get the coaching over the hump. Your post seems to excuse coaching blowing leads in games with under 1 min left to play. You put those losses only on the players?
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
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Post by the_way on Feb 26, 2018 22:13:29 GMT -5
Who the F is “Jonathan Starks”? Did John Starks and Jonathan Mulmore have a baby? Ah, a basketball noob. Starks was Patricks point for the Knicks good years. Starks was the 2-guard. Mark Jackson and Doc Rivers, Harper, and then later Chris Childs/Charley Ward were his PG's.
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,852
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Post by DFW HOYA on Feb 26, 2018 22:14:16 GMT -5
Attendance: 5,375. Fifth smallest crowd ever for a Big East game.
Season attendance: 7,531 a game. Smallest average attendance since 1980-81...when Georgetown played at McDonough Gym.
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saxagael
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,901
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Post by saxagael on Feb 26, 2018 22:14:42 GMT -5
Ah, a basketball noob. Starks was Patricks point for the Knicks good years. Omg. I was at the ‘93 conference finals game when Starks posterized Jordan, I’ve just never heard anyone call him “Jonathan Starks”, probably because nobody ever did. And he wasn’t a point guard, he was a 2 guard. Patrick had point guards from Rod Strickland, to Mark Jackson, to Doc Rivers, to Derek Harper, to Greg Anthony, but I’m sure you knew that, you encyclopedia of basketball knowledge, you! But thanks, you’re sweet. I was wondering how someone with Hoboken in their username wouldn't recognize Starks. Used Jonathan as everytime I mentioned Starks Hoya fans think Markel. Any of Patrick's Knicks guards, particularly point, would be good to have float in. Starks seemed to be a good option, but didn't realize he was still working for the Knicks front office, which wouldn't work for him just to show up.
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dchoya72
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,489
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Post by dchoya72 on Feb 26, 2018 22:17:45 GMT -5
You tell us. Or maybe Glide. I respect you guys... Yes, we need a point guard. We need some good news!! Our players make poor decisions and cannot execute under any type of pressure. What do I have to do with Glide? What are you talking about dc? Nothing really. No ill intent meant.Both of you please accept my apology!! This is frustrating. We have a talent issue, and you seem aware of talent. I'm hoping some thing good comes our way. You dont normally say a lot about in-game stuff. Patrick is going through a learning curve just like the players. But on the court, players make the difference Watching us play, I am waiting for the team to exercise bad decions or be unable to make plays, across the board. It seems inevitable no matter how many points we're up. Again, please accept my apology...both of you!
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