This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,593
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NIT?
Feb 17, 2018 10:51:05 GMT -5
Post by This Just In on Feb 17, 2018 10:51:05 GMT -5
Well count me right there with you. If we had played a better OOC the offensive tweaks could have been made prior to the BE schedule and would not have taken 13 BE games to figure out how to close out a game against teams not named DePaul and St. Johns. Also that 1pt loss to DePaul at home may really come back to haunt Ewing. As you look at it, if the team won that game they are 6-8 with a margin for error and even looking at ending up over (.500) in the BE at 10-8 instead of now running the table and ending up at 9-9 and needing a couple of wins in the BET to get into the NCAAT. We aren't going to run the table. Less Big East losses would just mean more OOC losses to teams like DePaul. We disagree on the OOC scheduling, Ewing and staff have shown us quick adjustments have been made to enable the team to adapt to their flaws. You could be right about running the team not running the table. But I had a bold prediction that the team would win more than 5 BE games and we are now 1 game short The last 4 games are Xavier, Providence, Marquette, and Villanova Xavier and especially Villanova are vulnerable and winnable games And I think Georgetown is better than Providence and Marquette right now with the speed of its game and the limitations of turnovers the Hoyas will put tremendous pressure on these 4 teams to keep pace. All 4 of these games should come down to the last possession and then end of game execution and BB IQ will determine the outcomes
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Post by trillesthoya on Feb 17, 2018 12:25:32 GMT -5
I think it should be remembered that Ewing has already matched JT3's record in the big east last season with much less talent and four regular season games to go. Say what you want about the non-con, but Ewing has done all you can ask for in conference.
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mdtd
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,567
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Post by mdtd on Feb 17, 2018 16:24:18 GMT -5
We aren't going to run the table. Less Big East losses would just mean more OOC losses to teams like DePaul. We disagree on the OOC scheduling, Ewing and staff have shown us quick adjustments have been made to enable the team to adapt to their flaws. You could be right about running the team not running the table. But I had a bold prediction that the team would win more than 5 BE games and we are now 1 game short The last 4 games are Xavier, Providence, Marquette, and Villanova Xavier and especially Villanova are vulnerable and winnable games And I think Georgetown is better than Providence and Marquette right now with the speed of its game and the limitations of turnovers the Hoyas will put tremendous pressure on these 4 teams to keep pace. All 4 of these games should come down to the last possession and then end of game execution and BB IQ will determine the outcomes Villanova seems like one that we could easily lose by 20+ to. We just match up very poorly against them and they are the better team.
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miracles87
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,154
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Post by miracles87 on Feb 17, 2018 19:45:59 GMT -5
I can't wait to post on this thread after Georgetown reaches the Sweet 16...
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sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by sleepy on Feb 17, 2018 20:11:08 GMT -5
Hoya Basketball: Optimisim is back, delusion is next.
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LCPolo18
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by LCPolo18 on Feb 20, 2018 17:46:23 GMT -5
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NIT?
Feb 20, 2018 18:19:46 GMT -5
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 20, 2018 18:19:46 GMT -5
Interesting thoughts. But, some of what he says beyond "other factors" considered actually does involve the non-conference schedule:
"How you did against other tournament caliber teams" - If you play awful OOC teams, there is no chance you will beat any tournament teams outside your conference.
"Did you win the games you were supposed to win?" - Again, if you win solid OOC games, it's going to matter.
I understand his overall point, and I am sure there is merit to it. I agree that conference performance, overall, is the most important factor. Again, I think the issue with non conference scheduling arises more when your team is on the bubble. Sure, a team like Villanova or Duke could play an awful OOC and still make the tournament, but when you are on the bubble, all of these factors matter a lot more in differentiating teams.
I would further add that when you get toward bubble teams, things like how you do against other tournament caliber teams means a lot. Getting a few decent OOC wins can be beneficial in that sense when the decisions are close, too.
And, in the past, the NCAA has clearly weighed strength of schedule when assigning seeds (Georgetown got a 3 seed going 10-8 in the Big East in 2011, for example), and I don't expect that to change.
Lastly, clearly there has been a widespread trend of high major teams to schedule better in the OOC (which is why our bad OOC was so conspicuous). When you get to the point where most high major teams have decent OOC's, it's less differentiating because they are all similar.
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mdtd
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,567
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NIT?
Feb 20, 2018 18:20:17 GMT -5
Post by mdtd on Feb 20, 2018 18:20:17 GMT -5
This seems like something that would be changed IF we end up making the tournament. Granted, as I have said on this thread many times, do not expect that.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,654
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NIT?
Feb 20, 2018 19:13:34 GMT -5
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Post by guru on Feb 20, 2018 19:13:34 GMT -5
Interesting thoughts. But, some of what he says beyond "other factors" considered actually does involve the non-conference schedule: "How you did against other tournament caliber teams" - If you play awful OOC teams, there is no chance you will beat any tournament teams outside your conference. "Did you win the games you were supposed to win?" - Again, if you win solid OOC games, it's going to matter. I understand his overall point, and I am sure there is merit to it. I agree that conference performance, overall, is the most important factor. Again, I think the issue with non conference scheduling arises more when your team is on the bubble. Sure, a team like Villanova or Duke could play an awful OOC and still make the tournament, but when you are on the bubble, all of these factors matter a lot more in differentiating teams. I would further add that when you get toward bubble teams, things like how you do against other tournament caliber teams means a lot. Getting a few decent OOC wins can be beneficial in that sense when the decisions are close, too. And, in the past, the NCAA has clearly weighed strength of schedule when assigning seeds (Georgetown got a 3 seed going 10-8 in the Big East in 2011, for example), and I don't expect that to change. Lastly, clearly there has been a widespread trend of high major teams to schedule better in the OOC (which is why our bad OOC was so conspicuous). When you get to the point where most high major teams have decent OOC's, it's less differentiating because they are all similar. Is anyone else reminded of the Marshall McLuhan scene in Annie Hall at this point?
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NIT?
Feb 21, 2018 1:30:56 GMT -5
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Post by JohnnyJones on Feb 21, 2018 1:30:56 GMT -5
Interesting thoughts. But, some of what he says beyond "other factors" considered actually does involve the non-conference schedule: "How you did against other tournament caliber teams" - If you play awful OOC teams, there is no chance you will beat any tournament teams outside your conference. "Did you win the games you were supposed to win?" - Again, if you win solid OOC games, it's going to matter. I understand his overall point, and I am sure there is merit to it. I agree that conference performance, overall, is the most important factor. Again, I think the issue with non conference scheduling arises more when your team is on the bubble. Sure, a team like Villanova or Duke could play an awful OOC and still make the tournament, but when you are on the bubble, all of these factors matter a lot more in differentiating teams. I would further add that when you get toward bubble teams, things like how you do against other tournament caliber teams means a lot. Getting a few decent OOC wins can be beneficial in that sense when the decisions are close, too. And, in the past, the NCAA has clearly weighed strength of schedule when assigning seeds (Georgetown got a 3 seed going 10-8 in the Big East in 2011, for example), and I don't expect that to change. Lastly, clearly there has been a widespread trend of high major teams to schedule better in the OOC (which is why our bad OOC was so conspicuous). When you get to the point where most high major teams have decent OOC's, it's less differentiating because they are all similar. Weren’t we a 6 seed in 2011, losing to 11 seed VCU in 1st round?
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NIT?
Feb 21, 2018 10:20:55 GMT -5
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 21, 2018 10:20:55 GMT -5
Weren’t we a 6 seed in 2011, losing to 11 seed VCU in 1st round? Yes - typo. I meant 2010, where we were 10-8 and a 3 seed losing to Ohio in the first round. I still view that (aside possibly from FGCU) as our "worst" of the losses. The 2010 team was really, really good, and easily could have been a Sweet 16+ team.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,654
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NIT?
Feb 21, 2018 10:58:08 GMT -5
Post by guru on Feb 21, 2018 10:58:08 GMT -5
Weren’t we a 6 seed in 2011, losing to 11 seed VCU in 1st round? Yes - typo. I meant 2010, where we were 10-8 and a 3 seed losing to Ohio in the first round. I still view that (aside possibly from FGCU) as our "worst" of the losses. The 2010 team was really, really good, and easily could have been a Sweet 16+ team. Looking back, that one was really a canary in the coal mine. JT3 sent a totally unprepared team out on the floor that night - we were far superior and got our doors blown off. We legit looked helpless and overmatched against a MAC team. Gee, thanks for bringing that one up
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vv83
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,333
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NIT?
Feb 21, 2018 12:42:29 GMT -5
Post by vv83 on Feb 21, 2018 12:42:29 GMT -5
Yes - typo. I meant 2010, where we were 10-8 and a 3 seed losing to Ohio in the first round. I still view that (aside possibly from FGCU) as our "worst" of the losses. The 2010 team was really, really good, and easily could have been a Sweet 16+ team. Looking back, that one was really a canary in the coal mine. JT3 sent a totally unprepared team out on the floor that night - we were far superior and got our doors blown off. We legit looked helpless and overmatched against a MAC team. Gee, thanks for bringing that one up That was probably the single worst defensive performance of any JTIII team in a significant game. Yes, Ohio was insanely hot from outside. But they were getting open looks on just about every possession. That 2010 team was real good offensively/bad defensively. We had a chance to tie very late in the game after a good comeback, but Wright missed a corner 3, and that was that. Really a helpless feeling in the arena (and I am sure on TV as well) watching those two guards get whatever shots they wanted all night, and make almost all of them.
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hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by hoyazeke on Feb 21, 2018 14:38:40 GMT -5
I dont think the OOC schedule hurt as much as losing 4gms in which we were clearly the better team on that day (cuse, butler, provy, X) and 1 in which we overcame bad play to take a late lead (depaul). Those five gms get us in the tourney if we win the gms we should to end the regular season......IMO
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NIT?
Feb 21, 2018 14:51:48 GMT -5
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Post by ewingitrust on Feb 21, 2018 14:51:48 GMT -5
At least for this team, the NIT was where i kinda felt like that was the benchmark for this season. Gotta take it one game at a time, but the Hoyas are getting better with each passing game.
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,397
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NIT?
Feb 21, 2018 15:12:42 GMT -5
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Post by drquigley on Feb 21, 2018 15:12:42 GMT -5
Wow. Talk about unreasonable expectations. First, Nova is not a winnable game. Even without Booth they are far and away one of the best teams in the country. In fact, I think this years team is one of the best teams —ever — in the 3 point era. Second, NIT? It’s great that we are playing well and have exceeded expectations. But you’d have to delusional to think,especially pre season, that we would make any post season tourney. Let’s just enjoy the progress this group has made and be happy with a 7-11 BE season and maybe 1 BE tourney win.
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iowa80
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,407
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NIT?
Feb 21, 2018 15:27:55 GMT -5
Post by iowa80 on Feb 21, 2018 15:27:55 GMT -5
Two of the next four and one win in NYC makes this season a resounding success, NIT or not. Anyone who doubts that should be forced to turn in their blue blazers and rep ties. If you don't have any to turn in, we'll settle for jeans and an untucked man shirt (I'm assuming that women are smart enough to not disagree).
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 21, 2018 15:32:20 GMT -5
Wow. Talk about unreasonable expectations. First, Nova is not a winnable game. Even without Booth they are far and away one of the best teams in the country. In fact, I think this years team is one of the best teams —ever — in the 3 point era. Second, NIT? It’s great that we are playing well and have exceeded expectations. But you’d have to delusional to think,especially pre season, that we would make any post season tourney. Let’s just enjoy the progress this group has made and be happy with a 7-11 BE season and maybe 1 BE tourney win. If we went 7-11 and maybe 1 Big East tournament win, AND we continued to show improvement (win or lose), I think that's really positive. In my mind, the most important thing is to see continued improvement on the court and solid recruit, both of which would give us a lot of hope for the future.
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GUJook97
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by GUJook97 on Feb 21, 2018 15:41:23 GMT -5
Two of the next four and one win in NYC makes this season a resounding success, NIT or not. Anyone who doubts that should be forced to turn in their blue blazers and rep ties. If you don't have any to turn in, we'll settle for jeans and an untucked man shirt (I'm assuming that women are smart enough to not disagree). Best case, realistic scenario is to steal 7th place, play and beat DePaul in the first round of the BE, and then play with nothing to lose against Xavier/Nova on day 2. But, even that is a somewhat tall order since Marquette has a pretty favorable schedule. Worst case is we bomb out and then get our butts handed to us by a resurgent SJU team on day 1. That would make this a bummer of a season.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Feb 21, 2018 17:06:05 GMT -5
Back around the time of the first Butler and Marquette games, I wrote that the collapses against Cuse and Butler were going to be the difference between an NIT team knocking on the door for even potentially an NCAA at-large berth vs. a team that wouldn't sniff the postseason. For the most part, I got laughed at for that statement. But here were are in late February, and the could've would've should'ves are back in full force.
Now I know this is a young team playing for a new staff and they are going to have some growing pains, especially in late game situations. You can argue that their weak OOC didn't prepare them well enough for the adversity they faced against Cuse and the first Butler game. You could even argue the youth/inexperience could have caused the overall letdown against Depaul at home. I will buy all of that.
And I will of course give Ewing his props which he deserves for, in my estimation, changing the culture of the program, bringing back a sense of attitude and hustle, and his pre-game preparation. I fully believe he has prepared us better in practice than the previous regime did in its last days, and it shows in our endurance and fundamentals. We are routinely competitive in games that on paper should be less competitive. This in itself is a very positive trend.
But what kills me are the last two road losses. Up 4 with 1:20 to go at Providence. Up 4 with 30 seconds to go at Xavier. You've got 2 tourney teams on the road on the absolute ropes in end-game situations. And both end in devastating losses due to stupid mistakes and horrific execution that I would have expected to be corrected following the previous meltdowns already mentioned. Those were inexcusable.
So instead of this profile:
Current: 15-10, 5-9 BE, RPI: 130 Expected: 16-13, 6-12 BE, RPI: 129 heading into NIT
We should have had this profile:
Current w/ @xavier/@providence wins: 17-8, 7-7 BE, RPI: 103 Expected: 18-11, 8-10 BE RPI: 98 heading into the BET
So yes, this team still has a couple wins it can still get on paper to improve its resume. But for all the griping about the OOC quality, they literally could've helped their resume just as much if not more by not mucking up 2 minutes of their season. It's hard to say we squandered an opportunity during a rebuilding season, but in many ways it has felt like that. The credit AND blame belongs to Pat here, because he put us in position but we didn't finish.
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