Georgetown @ Xavier 2/3/18 Discussion

[michaelgrahmstylie]

Feb 4, 2018 16:05:00 GMT -5 xudash said:

I'm popping in to offer my two cents from the other side of the table:

1. Georgetown played the #6 team in the nation in the Cintas Center to the brink. I believe most of you know how hard it is for opposing teams to win in that building.

2. Trevon Bluiett's overall performance, 4-point play and 3 to end the half were required to beat you, which speaks volumes for how well the Hoyas played.

Sure, the 4-point play should have been 3 at the most, and that would have left you with a one-point lead with under 25 seconds to play, but who knows what would have happened at that point. So, you're kid fouled Trevon and put him on the line. I saw that as your kid hustling his butt off. Hindsight is easy.

Overall, your kids played their hearts out.

That's the main point. Coach Ewing can coach. He has them listening to him. They are improving. It takes time to turn a battleship. From what I saw yesterday of Georgetown, the Hoyas are going to be a force in the Big East again - as they should be - soon enough. With the tradition and resources you have at your disposal, and with Patrick Ewing as the HC, the recruits will come. Again, we all know it's just not about recruiting. Coaching and player development are key. IMHO, Ewing already is demonstrating that he can weave an improving team together over the course of a demanding season.

Who is this youngster, speaking such words of wisdom?!

[FLHoya]

Feb 4, 2018 15:47:18 GMT -5 hoyalove4ever said:

Clearly, in this instance, he had no chance of touching the ball. It was a mistake. If you coach your players to contest those shots aggressively- which you should- then there is no way to "coach around" that mistake. Jagan just was a step late and tried to compensate by making an impossible play. It happens.

I suppose you'd "coach around" it by addressing the underlying issue: Bluiett was so open because Jagan was ball watching and lost him (more than a "step late" too). It happened at the end of the first half too. It's somewhere in between scheme and completely a mental error...but the message has to be: you're guarding the opponent's best shooter, who is having a hot shooting game, and you're up 4. The shooter is your only responsibility--stick with him. It's exhausting to guard someone like that, and fight through all the screens and set plays, but to completely lose focus for a full second in that situation is something that needs "coaching"...and will probably come up in the next film session.

This isn't being critical just for the sake of it, or singling one guy out. To me, the progress we've made over the past few games is a real sign of improvement. A few weeks ago, you'd shrug your shoulders at some blowout loss, or a game we were competitive for a half, and say "whatever, they competed hard, that's something". But once we start keeping it close into and past 40 minutes at Creighton and Xavier...they're getting there. And with that...we can/should be a little more nit-picky, because these little things are the difference between "meh, moral victories!" and...ya know...actual victories.

[glidehoyas (Inactive)]

Georgetown had one timeout when the game ended. Not good. When Quentin Goodin went to the free throw line with .30 seconds left in OT the score 92-91 with Xavier up by one point. Me, as a coach I would've "froze" the foul shooter after he made his first free throw in hoping he'd missed the second free throw. This didn't happen. Goodin with no pressure knocked down his second free throw. Hoyas call a timeout with .26 seconds left in OT. Dickerson comes out of the timeout dribbling too many times and had enough time to get a two point pointer. Who knows he may have gotten fouled in the process! He also could've drove to the basket or passed it inside to a big, and if the big didn't have a shot to kick it back out for a jump shot. What was said in the huddle during the timeout we may never know, but in games like this it all comes down coaching and who's the best one. I'm not bashing our coach, but this is what happened. We were outcoached at the end of OT. Coach Ewing during the game coached well, but I think he'll work on end of game situations. This is sooooooo critical, and yes, even when get our recruits here. There will always be these type of close games, and critical decisions will be made. Hoya Saxa!

[daveg023]

I’m happy with the progress, don’t get me wrong, but the key to me is does this continue or so we revert to some bad habits down the stretch? If we play like this the remainder of the schedule there’s certainly a win or two to be had.

But the glass half empty perspective says we’ve played as well as we’ve could the last two games (except for the ends of both halves in both games) and have nothing to show for it. It just feels like our margin for error is so small. If our guards aren’t able to keep this up and/or Pickett and Blair cool off, we just aren’t good enough to stay with most teams in this conference.

Everyone keeps preaching offense and guard play but to me the defense has to improve. We seem to be incapable of making any team uncomfortable or getting a key stop late in the game. Our best defense seems to be hoping for an off shooting night yet outside of the St John’s games and maybe the Seton Hall game, I’m hard pressed to think of a game where a team truly shot poorly against us. And that has to be more than coincidental. We have played well enough these last two games on offense to win with semi-component defense. To me I really thought Patrick would instill that in this team sooner than anything else as it’s primarily attitude and effort. But outside of Kaleb I don’t think we have one above average defender on this team.

So in summary, the growth of the freshman and reduction in turnovers is great. But it’s only made us competitive in these games rather than losing by double digits. I’ll gladly trade some struggles on the offensive end at times if we are able to at least play average defense.

[glidehoyas (Inactive)]

Feb 3, 2018 20:37:57 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

What was even drawn up there?

True.

[glidehoyas (Inactive)]

Feb 3, 2018 20:39:23 GMT -5 njhoya78 said:

Rats. Thought glide had it nailed.

Mannnnnnn smh lol

[justsaying]

from where we started we are headed in the right direction as a program

[This Just In]

Feb 4, 2018 17:02:40 GMT -5 glidehoyas (Inactive) said:

Georgetown had one timeout when the game ended. Not good. When Quentin Goodin went to the free throw line with .30 seconds left in OT the score 92-91 with Xavier up by one point. Me, as a coach I would've "froze" the foul shooter after he made his first free throw in hoping he'd missed the second free throw. This didn't happen. Goodin with no pressure knocked down his second free throw. Hoyas call a timeout with .26 seconds left in OT. Dickerson comes out of the timeout dribbling too many times and had enough time to get a two point pointer. Who knows he may have gotten fouled in the process! He also could've drove to the basket or passed it inside to a big, and if the big didn't have a shot to kick it back out for a jump shot. What was said in the huddle during the timeout we may never know, but in games like this it all comes down coaching and who's the best one. I'm not bashing our coach, but this is what happened. We were outcoached at the end of OT. Coach Ewing during the game coached well, but I think he'll work on end of game situations. This is sooooooo critical, and yes, even when get our recruits here. There will always be these type of close games, and critical decisions will be made. Hoya Saxa!

Good points.
Xavier was 0/5 FG's in OT
And still outscored Gtown 10-5
All 10 points came from the FT line

[glidehoyas (Inactive)]

Feb 3, 2018 20:57:23 GMT -5 This Just In said:

Feb 3, 2018 20:48:40 GMT -5 hoyainla said:

The key as it has been for years is to get a true PG. if the team stays as is without a GOOD recruit or grad transfer PG it will be a waste of Govan and Derrickson and what should be an improved Pickett and Blair.

Who do you think would be a realistic get at PG for the program?

We got McClung coming in but will still need a back up point guard as well.

[Bigs"R"Us]

I like Jagan’s game, but you don’t foul that shot being up 4. He also fouled him on the halftime three, it just wasn’t called. Other players didn’t make plays down the stretch as well. We are playing much better with the talent we have and are fun to watch.

[glidehoyas (Inactive)]

Feb 4, 2018 11:08:16 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

I came to comment and not to read, so I'm going to skip over the lamentations of late game mistakes. I'm sure many are valid, many are insane, and if the small bit of commentary I did read, I will openly wonder if all of you are so incredibly negative irl, and if so, how you stand it (Did someone kill your dog, DFW?).

So all the caveats are true: we lost; we lost due to stupid mistakes; Xavier is a worse defensive team than you'd think; we can't stop anyone, really; we're overly reliant on the 3 pointer dropping. All true.

But man, this is what I saw that I can't help but be a little hopeful about:

• Two freshman gaining confidence, improving game by game in multiple aspects, and absolutely establishing themselves as players who will be positives for us now and in the future. It's the start of a foundation, and while you could see the talent before, the fact that production has already come in more than just one part of their game makes me already feel more comfortable banking on them as part of the future than some of our prior freshmen.
• An offense that looked functional and created good shots for extended parts of the game yesterday. I'd still love to see more inside the arc in terms of cuts but given the personnel, it was really very nice to see the offense move and create space inside and out.
• Great to see Jessie back.
• Look at what the offense can do with almost no turnovers!

The defense needs help (although it has been better than the offense overall in conference play). The offense needs to do this more than once in a while.

But I'm more hopeful than I've been in a while. Because next year -- with our top 5, Walker, Mac, Leblanc, Carter and some more time to work on things, this team might actually be pretty decent. I've no delusions that the talent level will be where we want it to be, but it is upgrading and the players are getting better.

Jessie's been back he just wasn't getting the ball when and where and how he wanted it but he did yesterday.

[glidehoyas (Inactive)]

Feb 4, 2018 13:00:56 GMT -5 dchoya72 said:

Feb 3, 2018 20:51:02 GMT -5 glidehoyas (Inactive) said:

Wondering what Ewing said in the huddle with .26 left? Should've told Dickerson to attack or get the ball to Marcus inside. If Marcus didn't have a shot to kick it back out. Smh

Glide, on that last play it could've also been a time to show confidence
in Jamorko who was just to his right for a possible game winning jumper.

Was too late by then.

[the_way]

Feb 4, 2018 17:03:50 GMT -5 daveg023 said:

I’m happy with the progress, don’t get me wrong, but the key to me is does this continue or so we revert to some bad habits down the stretch? If we play like this the remainder of the schedule there’s certainly a win or two to be had.

But the glass half empty perspective says we’ve played as well as we’ve could the last two games (except for the ends of both halves in both games) and have nothing to show for it. It just feels like our margin for error is so small. If our guards aren’t able to keep this up and/or Pickett and Blair cool off, we just aren’t good enough to stay with most teams in this conference.

Everyone keeps preaching offense and guard play but to me the defense has to improve. We seem to be incapable of making any team uncomfortable or getting a key stop late in the game. Our best defense seems to be hoping for an off shooting night yet outside of the St John’s games and maybe the Seton Hall game, I’m hard pressed to think of a game where a team truly shot poorly against us. And that has to be more than coincidental. We have played well enough these last two games on offense to win with semi-component defense. To me I really thought Patrick would instill that in this team sooner than anything else as it’s primarily attitude and effort. But outside of Kaleb I don’t think we have one above average defender on this team.

So in summary, the growth of the freshman and reduction in turnovers is great. But it’s only made us competitive in these games rather than losing by double digits. I’ll gladly trade some struggles on the offensive end at times if we are able to at least play average defense.

Very good point.

I'm curious as to what others think about what we are doing defensively, and how we can improve or what is the root cause(s). Just talent? Scheme?

[glidehoyas (Inactive)]

Feb 4, 2018 17:53:35 GMT -5 This Just In said:

Feb 4, 2018 17:02:40 GMT -5 glidehoyas (Inactive) said:

Georgetown had one timeout when the game ended. Not good. When Quentin Goodin went to the free throw line with .30 seconds left in OT the score 92-91 with Xavier up by one point. Me, as a coach I would've "froze" the foul shooter after he made his first free throw in hoping he'd missed the second free throw. This didn't happen. Goodin with no pressure knocked down his second free throw. Hoyas call a timeout with .26 seconds left in OT. Dickerson comes out of the timeout dribbling too many times and had enough time to get a two point pointer. Who knows he may have gotten fouled in the process! He also could've drove to the basket or passed it inside to a big, and if the big didn't have a shot to kick it back out for a jump shot. What was said in the huddle during the timeout we may never know, but in games like this it all comes down coaching and who's the best one. I'm not bashing our coach, but this is what happened. We were outcoached at the end of OT. Coach Ewing during the game coached well, but I think he'll work on end of game situations. This is sooooooo critical, and yes, even when get our recruits here. There will always be these type of close games, and critical decisions will be made. Hoya Saxa!

Good points.
Xavier was 0/5 FG's in OT
And still outscored Gtown 10-5
All 10 points came from the FT line

They don't hear me though. I've outcoached lots of coaches at the end of games doing this. I'm not leaving any timeouts especially in crucial situations. The thing about after I had said this to someone I watching the game with the announcer mentioned the same thing, but didn't mention "freeze" the foul shooter.

[glidehoyas (Inactive)]

Feb 4, 2018 18:55:49 GMT -5 the_way said:

Feb 4, 2018 17:03:50 GMT -5 daveg023 said:

I’m happy with the progress, don’t get me wrong, but the key to me is does this continue or so we revert to some bad habits down the stretch? If we play like this the remainder of the schedule there’s certainly a win or two to be had.

But the glass half empty perspective says we’ve played as well as we’ve could the last two games (except for the ends of both halves in both games) and have nothing to show for it. It just feels like our margin for error is so small. If our guards aren’t able to keep this up and/or Pickett and Blair cool off, we just aren’t good enough to stay with most teams in this conference.

Everyone keeps preaching offense and guard play but to me the defense has to improve. We seem to be incapable of making any team uncomfortable or getting a key stop late in the game. Our best defense seems to be hoping for an off shooting night yet outside of the St John’s games and maybe the Seton Hall game, I’m hard pressed to think of a game where a team truly shot poorly against us. And that has to be more than coincidental. We have played well enough these last two games on offense to win with semi-component defense. To me I really thought Patrick would instill that in this team sooner than anything else as it’s primarily attitude and effort. But outside of Kaleb I don’t think we have one above average defender on this team.

So in summary, the growth of the freshman and reduction in turnovers is great. But it’s only made us competitive in these games rather than losing by double digits. I’ll gladly trade some struggles on the offensive end at times if we are able to at least play average defense.

Very good point.

I'm curious as to what others think about what we are doing defensively, and how we can improve or what is the root cause(s). Just talent? Scheme?

Keep hands up on defense! Communicate, point communicate! Starts with your point guard.

[hoyasaxa2003]

A few thoughts on the game. First off, I think this thread has been overall extremely positive, with only a couple of exceptions - so I am not quite sure why so much time has been spent pretending otherwise. In any case, it's silly to talk about a coach's career, etc. after one game. Ewing is our coach and will be for the foreseeable future, so those discussions are really pointless.

I do think there was a lot of good about the game (at least before the last minute and overtime). Our offense clearly worked better than in other games - more ball movement, more off-ball motion, etc. I also think Ewing did a good job of getting Govan looks that were not post shots, and I think that's a major reason why he did so much better. I really hope Ewing continues to do this with Govan rather than parking him in the post (obviously some post play is fine, but I had been thinking there was too much), because that's going to work better. And finally, we didn't turn it over a lot.

I admit that if all these things continue into the future, that will definitely be a sign of some improvement. But, I'm not quite there yet. Is this a trend of better play, or simply an outlier? Keep in mind the Tre Campbell Xavier game where the not-great 2016 team beat Xavier away, yet had a lot of bad games after that. It's simply too early to say. I certainly hope it does, though, as it would give me more confidence in our offense going forward.

The one area where I am most skeptical is turnovers. We turned it over 10 times, which was great, but this team has been awful in this area all season. It's more likely just a good game, but if Ewing can manage to get these guys to continue to turn it over less he will definitely deserve a lot of credit for that.

So, there was a lot of good stuff, but I do think the Hoyas' colored glasses are causing people to gloss over some of the same things that would have had HoyaTalk erupting if the coach's last name ended with III rather than Ewing. Here's some of what concerns me.

Let me first say that I do think the players' have a ton of responsibility in blowing the end of the game. Obviously, no coach is going to tell Mosely to jump on top of a three point shooter and yield a 4 point play. A coach isn't going to tell Govan to commit a lane violation, or a moving screen that causes him to foul out of the game in overtime. No coach is going to tell Mulmore to commit stupid fouls in overtime.

That said, I do think there are some tactical decisions that merit consideration.

- Lineup Decisions. I question Ewing's decision to have Dickerson out there on the last possession of regulation. While Dickerson's play wasn't as bad as normal, he simply isn't a scoring threat in a situation where you need to score. If he was some sort of great floor general, I might understand it, but he isn't.

- Tactics/Plays out of Timeouts/End of Game: This was one of JT3's biggest weaknesses, but I haven't seen anything to indicate that Ewing is putting us in a great position with the plays we are running at the end of games or out of timeouts. Again, what was Dickerson doing out there? Maybe there was a brilliant play that simply wasn't executed by our players - some of that falls on them, but some falls on the coach too.

- Team Defense. I still haven't seen improvement of this team on defense throughout the season. Maybe we were slightly better last night than on some other nights, but we still allowed Xavier to shoot 50% from two and 36.7% from three. Yes, Xavier is a very good team, but we have been awful on defense all year, and I haven't seen improvements - or any significant improvement.

- Fouls. We did badly on fouls last night, but this is an aberration - we've been pretty good on this all year, and Ewing improved on JT3 in this respect pretty significantly. I am not worried about it, though Mulmore, especially, merits a discussion about not making stupid fouls in crunch-time situations.


Again, I think that we did a ton of good things, and I am happy about that, and I hope to see those things continue. I do think a lot of people are a bit more optimistic than results merit at this point. I mean, our best win is against a bad St. John's team. But if we continue to keep playing like we did in this game, that will be a good sign of improvement and probably yield a few wins, which would be great.

[Deleted]

I thought Dickerson played a good game yesterday.... 6 assist in 24 minutes, he was making things happen out there.

[iowa80]

Feb 4, 2018 17:13:21 GMT -5 justsaying said:

from where we started we are headed in the right direction as a program

Correct.  It's the "from where we started" that rankles.

[Bigs"R"Us]

Starting PG and SF score zero in a game that goes into OT. Backup PG scores 3 points. How can you win?

[xudash]

Feb 4, 2018 16:28:19 GMT -5 michaelgrahmstylie said:

Feb 4, 2018 16:05:00 GMT -5 xudash said:

I'm popping in to offer my two cents from the other side of the table:

1. Georgetown played the #6 team in the nation in the Cintas Center to the brink. I believe most of you know how hard it is for opposing teams to win in that building.

2. Trevon Bluiett's overall performance, 4-point play and 3 to end the half were required to beat you, which speaks volumes for how well the Hoyas played.

Sure, the 4-point play should have been 3 at the most, and that would have left you with a one-point lead with under 25 seconds to play, but who knows what would have happened at that point. So, you're kid fouled Trevon and put him on the line. I saw that as your kid hustling his butt off. Hindsight is easy.

Overall, your kids played their hearts out.

That's the main point. Coach Ewing can coach. He has them listening to him. They are improving. It takes time to turn a battleship. From what I saw yesterday of Georgetown, the Hoyas are going to be a force in the Big East again - as they should be - soon enough. With the tradition and resources you have at your disposal, and with Patrick Ewing as the HC, the recruits will come. Again, we all know it's just not about recruiting. Coaching and player development are key. IMHO, Ewing already is demonstrating that he can weave an improving team together over the course of a demanding season.

Who is this youngster, speaking such words of wisdom?!

Ha! Yes, let's go with "youngster".

I truly believe Ewing will be successful. Good luck.