Georgetown @ Xavier 2/3/18 Discussion

[calhoya]

Feb 4, 2018 0:46:20 GMT -5 the_way said:

Feb 3, 2018 20:45:42 GMT -5 calhoya said:

I guess I will cop to being a jerk then but at some point moral victories are not enough.This team has no business collapsing at the end of these games. They fought hard, played well and put themselves in a position to win. The kids and the coach deserve credit for that, but it is no different than making a great drive to the basket and not finishing. This is not about talent, this is about composure. They may not be the most talented team on the floor but they have enough talent to make some plays. It would be different if the losses were the result of a fabulous play by the other team rather than mistakes by the Hoyas. My expectations for these kids in February are higher than a month ago and tonight they showed that they are capable and developing into a much improved team.

We'll the past 2 years were losing seasons.

And now we have this season.

So who on this roster knows how to play under pressure and keep their composure against good teams on the road and close out games for wins?

Right.

They are learning now. And the ease of that learning process for players is often times dependent on the surrounding talent (or lack thereof).

We are getting there. A month ago, this game is another 30+ point blowout.

There is progress.

Nothing I disagree with here. I have thought for months that this team would be playing better in February than earlier in the season and clearly the coach and the players have improved since the year began. Maybe where I depart from others is in how we define the term "talent." While I am willing to admit that the Hoyas lack shooters and quality guards at this point in time--clearly issues of talent--I do not attribute the late game collapses to a lack of talent. Lazy passes, mental errors, poor shot selection, unnecessary fouls that stop the clock,missing the open man, etc. To me these are not issues of talent, as that same player who makes the careless turnover has played well for most of the game. This is about the mental side of the game and focus. That is where I want to see the cycle broken and stop these late game collapses.

[bamahoya11]

Last night was a tough loss to take, but an incredible effort. The team has taken a giant step forward in terms of development these last two games. If they continue to play this way, we will win some games down the stretch. In many ways, the team I've watched against Creighton and Xavier is different from the team I saw earlier in the year. Better ball movement, tougher defense, more outside shooting, and fewer turnovers.

I still think we don't have quite enough depth to beat a team like Xavier on the road. We really needed a couple fresh bodies who could score just to keep everyone a little sharper at the end. But we have a great core to build around. Pickett is a changed player. After now seeing it basically five times in a row, I don't think he's going back. Instead, I see him adding to his game each time. His ability to work inside and out, and his rebounding, against Xavier were excellent.

Tough game -- I'll see that four point play at the end of regulation in my nightmares for some time. But honestly I can't wait to see these guys again. I hope they don't hang their heads and are ready to take out some frustration on Providence.

[SSHoya]

Feb 4, 2018 9:06:35 GMT -5 bamahoya11 said:

Last night was a tough loss to take, but an incredible effort. The team has taken a giant step forward in terms of development these last two games. If they continue to play this way, we will win some games down the stretch. In many ways, the team I've watched against Creighton and Xavier is different from the team I saw earlier in the year. Better ball movement, tougher defense, more outside shooting, and fewer turnovers.

I still think we don't have quite enough depth to beat a team like Xavier on the road. We really needed a couple fresh bodies who could score just to keep everyone a little sharper at the end. But we have a great core to build around. Pickett is a changed player. After now seeing it basically five times in a row, I don't think he's going back. Instead, I see him adding to his game each time. His ability to work inside and out, and his rebounding, against Xavier were excellent.

Tough game -- I'll see that four point play at the end of regulation in my nightmares for some time. But honestly I can't wait to see these guys again. I hope they don't hang their heads and are ready to take out some frustration on Providence.

I hope that our home crowd for the Seton Hall game on 2/10 appreciates the effort and improvement of this team. I'd love to get great attendance for that one. We need to beat Providence to get the home crowd juiced. Go Hoyas!

[augustusfinknottle]

Obviously we do have enough to beat a team like Xavier on the road. Because absent some mental errors such as lane violation, fouling 3 point shooters (twice), letting chippy Macura sucker you into a foul when you just came up with a big possession, etc. it would have happened. None of these was an issue of depth.

[gunny]

What do all of these posts about the game have to do with Govan? Looks like you posted in the wrong thread.

[augustusfinknottle]

Feb 4, 2018 0:39:05 GMT -5 beenaround said:

These hypotheticals about Ewing in three years are not worth a response. Like the team, I think PE is improving game by game. However, It is way to early to judge his peformance as a coach. PERIOD.

It's so nice when one person is able to determine, for all of us, that a question is decided. What a gift.

[This Just In]

Feb 4, 2018 0:15:47 GMT -5 tashoya said:

Feb 3, 2018 21:28:36 GMT -5 This Just In said:

That is not what I said.
I said 3 straight years of losing in the BE and 5 straight years for the program overall, meaning by year 3 Ewing needs to at least be at (.500) to show that the program is moving in the right direction.

Why would you assume 3 seasons of what you've seen so far? He's already got a team that was picked for the bottom of the BE competing. They've lost some close games as many teams do that are incredibly dependent on their young guys maturing quickly. He hasn't even had a full year to recruit but you're wondering what happens if he has 3 losing seasons? Have at it but it's an odd road to go down at this point.

What would happen if any unproven coach came into a full rebuild and didn't have winning BE records for 3 years at Georgetown? He'd probably still have a job but he'd be feeling a little heat. But he'd also not be named Patrick f'ing Ewing. To each his own and I get being down about the past few years. But you're wondering what happens if the most storied player in Georgetown history, an NBA Hall of Famer and a 15 year NBA assistant coach that is having a rough first year of a rebuild as HC continues a pattern that has yet to even be established with a team that he didn't have a chance assemble on his own? Jesus. If it rains for the next three days, what happens if it rains for the next three months? What will we think of the weather then?

Not an assumption, I gave a scenario.
Edit note:
I do not know if you are a Christian or not, but please try not to use the Lord's name in vain.
This is only basketball, not a life or death situation.

[jwp91]

I am so happy for Pickett. He has really been playing great the last few games. I hope what we have seen is growth and not inconsistency.

I can only imagine how stressful it was to have all the expectations he had upon him and then to struggle as he did.

Having both Blair and Pickett is going to be an asset.

[KHoyaNYC]

Big picture - team is making great strides. Program heading in right direction. Much optimism.

Little picture - tough loss to take. Team can't seem to close out wins against better opponents.

Conclusion - stay the course.

[bamahoya11]

Feb 4, 2018 9:14:55 GMT -5 augustusfinknottle said:

Obviously we do have enough to beat a team like Xavier on the road. Because absent some mental errors such as lane violation, fouling 3 point shooters (twice), letting chippy Macura sucker you into a foul when you just came up with a big possession, etc. it would have happened. None of these was an issue of depth.

Fair enough, but I think this perspective oversimplifies things. It's certainly true that we made some bad mistakes late in the game that made it tough to close the game out. The Derrickson foul was frustrating, and the four point play was just inexplicable, literally the one thing we cannot do at that point in the game. I would also put Govan's fifth foul on a moving screen up there. Even so, we had to play out of our minds to get to that point. Derrickson, Govan, Pickett, and Blair were outstanding. And even so, Xavier might well have won the game even without those mistakes. The only other player who added really anything was Jagan, who had a typical game with a handful of baskets, some nice assists and boards, but a few mistakes (notably the four point play). I am unconvinced that you can beat a team like Xavier with contributions from just four players, particularly with Mulmore and Johnson adding very very little in their playing time. The roster just isn't there.

Thus, I would explain the mistakes as things that happen in any game. We are going to make mistakes. We are going to be more likely to do it late in the game because the players we do have are going to have to work especially hard to do the right thing. I'm not going to say your read of events is unfair, it's just not what I take from the game. If this is an issue over the course of years, even as we get better and deeper players, then I would be willing to attribute these issues to something other than an under manned team just trying a little too hard at the end of the game.

[NCHoya]

I think it is ridiculous that anyone would be negative after losing to Creighton and Xavier, teams with a combined 28-0 record at home!!! Seriously - are you guys kidding? These are two of the BEST home teams in all of college basketball with great home environments.

Sure, I wish we could win these close games, but when your team's weakness is guard play, how can you expect, in the most tense moments, you are suddenly going to get the elite guard play needed to beat good teams on the road?

Continued progress. That is my goal for the season and I see it. If they keep it up, the Hoyas will break through and get a satisfying win. The improvement by individual players has been very encouraging and the will to fight it out on the road is fun to see. For instance, anyone who thinks Pickett's 180 degree improvement would happen under just any coach is fooling themselves.

Personally, I am so much less concerned than I was a month ago about the direction of this program. The only criticism I have is that early season schedule. Admittedly, I was not a critic of it, and even supported it. However, I cannot help but wonder where this team would be in its development with games like these in December versus Jan/Feb.

[DFW HOYA]

Feb 4, 2018 9:52:46 GMT -5 KHoyaNYC said:

Big picture - team is making great strides. Program heading in right direction. Much optimism.

Little picture - tough loss to take. Team can't seem to close out wins against better opponents.

Conclusion - stay the course.

Bigger Picture: Guru's quote earlier this week was on the mark: Georgetown is an afterthought at best, and a memory to most. I'm speaking of program here, not team: Years of institutional myopia have consigned Georgetown to schools who those familiar basement dwellers that cannot get out of the past, getting the proverbial tap on the head by the rest of the conference, as if "we hope you'll get better someday." All the wacky game promotions and awful uniform combinations do not address the fact that game attendance has dropped 44 percent since 2011 and year over year averages have dropped in five of the last six. Put another way - when the #6 team in the country is playing on CBS Sports Network on a Saturday night it's not because of them, it's their opponent.

Little picture: Georgetown is 0-7 this season (and 6-29 in the last three) to teams not named St. John's or DePaul. That will improve slightly in the next week or two, but it's a hurdle this program cannot climb out of right now.

Conclusion: Yes, Ewing is getting the players to play better. But the late game mistakes, and, yes, you CAN coach a team not to foul three point shooters with under 30 seconds left, sends no fear to Providence College, which has won six straight over the Hoyas.

[DanMcQ]

Jan 28, 2018 11:45:03 GMT -5 DanMcQ said:

A sustained 40 minute effort would be nice.

I got more than I asked for. Team is clearly progressing.

[Filo]

Man, this place is tough to come to anymore.

The program was a disaster. Hopefully, it is moving in the right direction, and taking the #6 team in the country to OT at their place suggests it is. The doom-and-gloom posts coming after this loss are beyond bizarre. Are they pre-written and just posted randomly after losses?

It is possible to be encouraged by the overall game but still be crushed at losing yet another game that we should have won. The team was expected to suck this year so, yeah, expectations are a bit low. That doesn’t mean we are accepting mediocrity – it’s just reality. The team just took the #6 team in the country to OT at their place. They should have won the game. They didn’t. Maybe next time.

As for the Mosely foul -- while boneheaded, especially with a 4 point lead, it looks like he unfortunately lost his balance a bit, which is why he wound up making contact with Bluiett. In an alternative reality - let's call it the pre-Scotty Reynolds world - where they don't allow players to kick out their leg to invite contact and draw the foul, that would not be called a foul, anyway.

[bamahoya11]

Feb 4, 2018 10:21:34 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Feb 4, 2018 9:52:46 GMT -5 KHoyaNYC said:

Big picture - team is making great strides. Program heading in right direction. Much optimism.

Little picture - tough loss to take. Team can't seem to close out wins against better opponents.

Conclusion - stay the course.

Bigger Picture: Guru's quote earlier this week was sadly on the mark: Georgetown is an afterthought at best, and a memory to most. Years of institutional myopia have consigned Georgetown to schools who cannot get out of the past, getting the proverbial tap on the head by the rest of the conference, as if "we hope you'll get better soon." All the wacky game promotions and awful uniform combinations do not address the fact that game attendance has dropped 44 percent since 2011 and year over year averages has dropped in five of the last six. To avoid that yet again in 2017-18, Georgetown must average nearly 12,000 a game down the stretch, and that's not happening.

Little picture: Georgetown is 0-7 this season (and 6-29 in the last three) to teams not named St. John's or DePaul. That will improve slightly in the next week or two, but it's a hurdle this program cannot climb out of right now.

Conclusion: Yes, Ewing is getting the players to play better. But the late game mistakes, and, yes, you CAN coach a team not to foul three point shooters with under 30 seconds left, sends no fear to Providence College, which has won six straight over the Hoyas.

These long-term challenges are present and have been discussed at length. They have been caused in part by a long term set of problems that weren't going to be resolved this season. I think it's too much to graft these challenges onto a close loss in a season that was never going to restore fear into the hearts and minds of our opponents. We have been lousy in the Big East for three years. We could have hired anyone this year to coach this team, and we still would have been bad. If Ewing can build, and win, over time these long term challenges will be resolved. If he doesn't, they will become more pronounced. Last night's game does not prove that he can do it. But it certainly doesn't establish that he can't. I wasn't behind his hire, but I think he can, and he will.

As for last night's game, I see the clear evidence of his development. Pickett is coming into his own and adding to his game. Turnovers are down. Players still try to do too much, but he has controlled for that and kept players in control for most of the game. Thus, I think it misses the mark to read last night's game into any long term struggle. Respect your analysis and perspective, but I see positives from last night that suggest better days ahead. I don't know what else we could have expected from this season.

[NCHoya]

DFW, I don't think anyone would disagree with your assessment. But, what is purpose of continually bringing up things that cannot be changed? Why do we trip over ourselves to be negative? One way to change the direction of the program is to change the narrative. Ewing cannot do this overnight, or over one season - how was that ever a reasonable expectation by such an intelligent fanbase??

Also, I do not think it is as easy as you write to simply get players to stop individual mistakes. Watch any college basketball game and show me the team that is not making mistakes? Duke and Kansas both made tremendous individual mistakes yesterday, are those poorly coached teams or are they playing young guys who occasionally have a brain fart? Stuff happens, the Hoyas just have to respond and be in position to take maximum advantage of the next opponent's mistake because we all know it is coming.

There are plenty of things to blame a coach for - game plans, in-game management/adjustments, player rotations, overall team readiness to play with intensity/urgency, but you would be replacing a lot of coaches if they were held accountable for individual player mistakes.

[michaelgrahmstylie]

Close, but no cigars.

I, for one, was totally impressed with our level of play. I did not see anything that a few more pieces to the roster cannot fix. We are getting there. Who would have believed we would be where we are with the level of play coming into this season?

Call me an eternal optimist, or whatever, despite the loss, I love what I am seeing. Yesterday's Govan, Derrickson, Pickett, Blair, they are the real deal. You add a top notch point guard and a dagger shooter to this outfit and we are back in the conversation. Not that we are not there now. The announcer on Pickett: "I am enamored by that freshman," "He is something special!" His words, not mine.

Finally, let's not be dismissive or impatient with what we have. THE TRAJECTORY SPIRALS UPWARD, MY FRIENDS.

[SFHoya99]

I came to comment and not to read, so I'm going to skip over the lamentations of late game mistakes. I'm sure many are valid, many are insane, and if the small bit of commentary I did read, I will openly wonder if all of you are so incredibly negative irl, and if so, how you stand it (Did someone kill your dog, DFW?).

So all the caveats are true: we lost; we lost due to stupid mistakes; Xavier is a worse defensive team than you'd think; we can't stop anyone, really; we're overly reliant on the 3 pointer dropping. All true.

But man, this is what I saw that I can't help but be a little hopeful about:

• Two freshman gaining confidence, improving game by game in multiple aspects, and absolutely establishing themselves as players who will be positives for us now and in the future. It's the start of a foundation, and while you could see the talent before, the fact that production has already come in more than just one part of their game makes me already feel more comfortable banking on them as part of the future than some of our prior freshmen.
• An offense that looked functional and created good shots for extended parts of the game yesterday. I'd still love to see more inside the arc in terms of cuts but given the personnel, it was really very nice to see the offense move and create space inside and out.
• Great to see Jessie back.
• Look at what the offense can do with almost no turnovers!

The defense needs help (although it has been better than the offense overall in conference play). The offense needs to do this more than once in a while.

But I'm more hopeful than I've been in a while. Because next year -- with our top 5, Walker, Mac, Leblanc, Carter and some more time to work on things, this team might actually be pretty decent. I've no delusions that the talent level will be where we want it to be, but it is upgrading and the players are getting better.

[mfk24]

Feb 4, 2018 10:42:17 GMT -5 NCHoya said:

DFW, I don't think anyone would disagree with your assessment. But, what is purpose of continually bringing up things that cannot be changed? Why do we trip over ourselves to be negative? One way to change the direction of the program is to change the narrative. Ewing cannot do this overnight, or over one season - how was that ever a reasonable expectation by such an intelligent fanbase??

Also, I do not think it is as easy as you write to simply get players to stop individual mistakes. Watch any college basketball game and show me the team that is not making mistakes? Duke and Kansas both made tremendous individual mistakes yesterday, are those poorly coached teams or are they playing young guys who occasionally have a brain fart? Stuff happens, the Hoyas just have to respond and be in position to take maximum advantage of the next opponent's mistake because we all know it is coming.

There are plenty of things to blame a coach for - game plans, in-game management/adjustments, player rotations, overall team readiness to play with intensity/urgency, but you would be replacing a lot of coaches if they were held accountable for individual player mistakes.

This! I watched Michigan St go to the wire with a terrible Indiana team that at one point in the game was shooting maybe 22% from the field. Late in the game, with a lead, Bridges, who is a possible lottery pick, fouls the Indiana guard driving into the lane for the and-1 and Izzo lit into him. Izzo is probably one of the most highly regarded college basketball coaches around. You don’t think he coaches guys not to foul in that situation? Just a mental error that is gonna be made sometimes. If Indiana could hit the broad side of a barn, they might’ve lost that game. In my mind teams with more individual talent can overcome those types of mistakes and that’s something we are lacking right now.

[MCIGuy]

Feb 4, 2018 10:21:34 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Feb 4, 2018 9:52:46 GMT -5 KHoyaNYC said:

Big picture - team is making great strides. Program heading in right direction. Much optimism.

Little picture - tough loss to take. Team can't seem to close out wins against better opponents.

Conclusion - stay the course.

Bigger Picture: Guru's quote earlier this week was on the mark: Georgetown is an afterthought at best, and a memory to most. I'm speaking of program here, not team: Years of institutional myopia have consigned Georgetown to schools who those familiar basement dwellers that cannot get out of the past, getting the proverbial tap on the head by the rest of the conference, as if "we hope you'll get better someday." All the wacky game promotions and awful uniform combinations do not address the fact that game attendance has dropped 44 percent since 2011 and year over year averages have dropped in five of the last six. Put another way - when the #6 team in the country is playing on CBS Sports Network on a Saturday night it's not because of them, it's their opponent.

Little picture: Georgetown is 0-7 this season (and 6-29 in the last three) to teams not named St. John's or DePaul. That will improve slightly in the next week or two, but it's a hurdle this program cannot climb out of right now.

Conclusion: Yes, Ewing is getting the players to play better. But the late game mistakes, and, yes, you CAN coach a team not to foul three point shooters with under 30 seconds left, sends no fear to Providence College, which has won six straight over the Hoyas.

Never change, DFW.