TC
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Post by TC on Feb 4, 2018 12:00:29 GMT -5
I like to know if any of the people over the last couple of months who have been complaining about frustrations regarding Ewing were also among those who had given III pretty much a pass of wasting high NCAA tourney seeds for roughly four or five straight years. I would also want to know if those same folks then either kept quiet or preached patience when III's teams failed to get into the NCAA tourney for three of his last four years, including two horrible back-to-back losing seasons, which immediately followed those four/five years of wasting high seeds. If you were one of those individuals then your opinion is pretty much forfeit and your double standard against Ewing is maddening. It's amazing to me that your takeaway from this thread is that after losing on the world's dumbest play and wasting 39:30 of overachievement on the road, that the angst here is a JT3-fueled hypocrisy/bias against Ewing. There's a segment of the fanbase has no sense of perspective and goes nuts whenever we lose. They weren't preaching patience last year. Here are the receipts of people that preached patience on JT3 : My one post in this thread : hoyatalk2.proboards.com/post/762396Madgesdiq's one post in this thread : hoyatalk2.proboards.com/post/762481 |
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Feb 4, 2018 12:08:58 GMT -5
Man, this place is tough to come to anymore. The program was a disaster. Hopefully, it is moving in the right direction, and taking the #6 team in the country to OT at their place suggests it is. The doom-and-gloom posts coming after this loss are beyond bizarre. Are they pre-written and just posted randomly after losses? It is possible to be encouraged by the overall game but still be crushed at losing yet another game that we should have won. The team was expected to suck this year so, yeah, expectations are a bit low. That doesn’t mean we are accepting mediocrity – it’s just reality. The team just took the #6 team in the country to OT at their place. They should have won the game. They didn’t. Maybe next time. This....all day. I mean even if you are not enthusiastic or optimistic that the program may be headed in the right direction, at the very least you don't have to play Debbie Downer with your two cents when responding to someone who had the audacity to write something positive. You could retain all your doubts, bite your tongue and let it slide. Heck, I certainly did that during the last five years even after Hoya victories or moral defeats that I wasn't swayed by, allowing space for people to have their little joys after games. Yes, we all know the program has slid greatly....which is why a new coach is here in the first place, right? If III was still the coach and the Hoyas had lost a tough fought game at #6 Xavier, further sliding the Hoyas towards the bottom of the conference standings, then people would be far more justified in their skepticism that nothing was changing. However this is Ewing's first freaking year and on court the team is making strides. For example Gtown and Xaver are the top two rebounding teams in the BE. When was the last time Gtown was that high in that category? Unless I'm mistaken Govan and Derrickson along with Bradley Hayes were on the team last season and the rebounding was still unimpressive. |
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KHoyaNYC
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Post by KHoyaNYC on Feb 4, 2018 12:15:12 GMT -5
Big picture - team is making great strides. Program heading in right direction. Much optimism. Little picture - tough loss to take. Team can't seem to close out wins against better opponents. Conclusion - stay the course. Bigger Picture: Guru's quote earlier this week was on the mark: Georgetown is an afterthought at best, and a memory to most. I'm speaking of program here, not team: Years of institutional myopia have consigned Georgetown to schools who those familiar basement dwellers that cannot get out of the past, getting the proverbial tap on the head by the rest of the conference, as if "we hope you'll get better someday." All the wacky game promotions and awful uniform combinations do not address the fact that game attendance has dropped 44 percent since 2011 and year over year averages have dropped in five of the last six. Put another way - when the #6 team in the country is playing on CBS Sports Network on a Saturday night it's not because of them, it's their opponent. Little picture: Georgetown is 0-7 this season (and 6-29 in the last three) to teams not named St. John's or DePaul. That will improve slightly in the next week or two, but it's a hurdle this program cannot climb out of right now. Conclusion: Yes, Ewing is getting the players to play better. But the late game mistakes, and, yes, you CAN coach a team not to foul three point shooters with under 30 seconds left, sends no fear to Providence College, which has won six straight over the Hoyas. I mean you are not wrong but I doubt you would have posted this had we won. This is a total overhaul. Overall I like what we are doing and where Ewing has this team going. Sure the loss hurts but I never thought we would be going toe to toe with Xavier on their home floor 2 months ago. Some nice improvement. |
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Feb 4, 2018 12:38:24 GMT -5
I like to know if any of the people over the last couple of months who have been complaining about frustrations regarding Ewing were also among those who had given III pretty much a pass of wasting high NCAA tourney seeds for roughly four or five straight years. I would also want to know if those same folks then either kept quiet or preached patience when III's teams failed to get into the NCAA tourney for three of his last four years, including two horrible back-to-back losing seasons, which immediately followed those four/five years of wasting high seeds. If you were one of those individuals then your opinion is pretty much forfeit and your double standard against Ewing is maddening. It's amazing to me that your takeaway from this thread is that after losing on the world's dumbest play and wasting 39:30 of overachievement on the road, that the angst here is a JT3-fueled hypocrisy/bias against Ewing. There's a segment of the fanbase has no sense of perspective and goes nuts whenever we lose. They weren't preaching patience last year. Here are the receipts : My one post in this thread : hoyatalk2.proboards.com/post/762396Madgesdiq's one post in this thread : hoyatalk2.proboards.com/post/762481There were five to six years of this board critiquing the intelligence, skills and abilities of the players after losses and for the longest time allowing the head coach who was responsible for evaluating, recruiting and teaching those players to get what amounted overall to a relative free pass. But last night I read a bunch of posts about how Ewing only has a couple of years to figure things out and turn this around and you better believe I'm gonna call out the hypocrisy and the stupidity of such proclamations. Of course last season was bad in terms of people wanting III's head. But that was after consecutive years of the team not living up to its capabilities, after stretches in which the team had wasted high seeding in the tourneys only to fall to mid majors in the first round, after back-to-back years in which III's teams lost to bad mid majors AT HOME during the season. It took awhile before such negativity from fans on this board started really piling on regarding III's culpability, way beyond the time when goodwill for the Final Four trip should have expired. But Ewing, after inheriting a losing team that lost its top two scorers from the season before, is getting some heat for not winning games that almost no one here thought the Hoyas would be competitive in leading up to the season. In his first year as a head coach no less. Yeah, I'm calling foul on that. Was the four-point foul last night awful? Undoubtedly. IMO the worst Hoya play since Sam Jefferson fouled Billy Owens a thousand feet from the basket at the Dome in 1990. But as strange as this may sound this year's Hoyas had to be in position to win in the first place for such an absurd outcome to be so painful. And they WERE in position to win which is something to be excited about. Now they have to learn how to secure victories. |
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TC
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Post by TC on Feb 4, 2018 12:46:53 GMT -5
There were five to six years of this board critiquing the intelligence, skills and abilities of the players after losses and for the longest time allowing the head coach who was responsible for evaluating, recruiting and teaching those players to get what amounted overall to a relative free pass. But last night I read a bunch of posts about how Ewing only has a couple of years to figure things out and turn this around and you better believe I'm gonna call out the hypocrisy and the stupidity of such proclamations. Why do you think that's "hypocrisy"? If you read people saying that Ewing only has a couple of years to figure things out it was probably from people who wanted to fire JT3 in 2015. There's a segment of the fanbase with no patience. |
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DallasHoya
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Post by DallasHoya on Feb 4, 2018 12:59:55 GMT -5
There were five to six years of this board critiquing the intelligence, skills and abilities of the players after losses and for the longest time allowing the head coach who was responsible for evaluating, recruiting and teaching those players to get what amounted overall to a relative free pass. But last night I read a bunch of posts about how Ewing only has a couple of years to figure things out and turn this around and you better believe I'm gonna call out the hypocrisy and the stupidity of such proclamations. Why do you think that's "hypocrisy"? If you read people saying that Ewing only has a couple of years to figure things out it was probably from people who wanted to fire JT3 in 2015. There's a segment of the fanbase with no patience. "Dude it’s coaching.....the players have become a revolving door...and we have the same problems every year....our tourney results are pretty much a good indicator of that with our first weekend exits becoming routine...." "Dude we lost in the first weekend five times since 2007 and another three times on the very first game of the second week.....that’s 8 times since 2007 we haven’t played on the second weekend or have been out on the Thurs/Friday game which isn’t a weekend....So Drama...LMAO those are straight facts...I would love to see us play on the second weekend...it actually does not happen much anymore...." These are from the Duke message board, not ours!!! |
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dchoya72
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Post by dchoya72 on Feb 4, 2018 13:00:56 GMT -5
Wondering what Ewing said in the huddle with .26 left? Should've told Dickerson to attack or get the ball to Marcus inside. If Marcus didn't have a shot to kick it back out. Smh Glide, on that last play it could've also been a time to show confidence in Jamorko who was just to his right for a possible game winning jumper. |
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Feb 4, 2018 13:29:57 GMT -5
Wondering what Ewing said in the huddle with .26 left? Should've told Dickerson to attack or get the ball to Marcus inside. If Marcus didn't have a shot to kick it back out. Smh Glide, on that last play it could've also been a time to show confidence in Jamorko who was just to his right for a possible game winning jumper. Full credit to Xavier for pressuring after the inbounds and forcing the ball to stay out top too long thereby forcing a bad shot. They do that even to the top teams in the conference. |
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Feb 4, 2018 13:39:13 GMT -5
As evidence that good coaching can’t always make great players not make mistakes, Desi Rodriguez just let Villanova get a wide open layup under the basket off an inbounds play coming out of a timeout.
These are college kids. It happens to all of them.
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iowa80
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Post by iowa80 on Feb 4, 2018 13:53:35 GMT -5
As evidence that good coaching can’t always make great players not make mistakes, Desi Rodriguez just let Villanova get a wide open layup under the basket off an inbounds play coming out of a timeout. These are college kids. It happens to all of them. And it happens a lot on reaction plays such as the foul on the three-pointer. It is difficult to coach away reactions. I was more bothered by Jagan's losing Bluiett on that prayer at the end of the first half. But that's just me. |
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Feb 4, 2018 14:05:56 GMT -5
As evidence that good coaching can’t always make great players not make mistakes, Desi Rodriguez just let Villanova get a wide open layup under the basket off an inbounds play coming out of a timeout. These are college kids. It happens to all of them. And it happens a lot on reaction plays such as the foul on the three-pointer. It is difficult to coach away reactions. I was more bothered by Jagan's losing Bluiett on that prayer at the end of the first half. But that's just me. Me too. Seen live I thought he got screened. On replay, he took his eyes off Blueitt at just the instant Blueitt made his break. |
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Feb 4, 2018 14:33:11 GMT -5
Why would you assume 3 seasons of what you've seen so far? He's already got a team that was picked for the bottom of the BE competing. They've lost some close games as many teams do that are incredibly dependent on their young guys maturing quickly. He hasn't even had a full year to recruit but you're wondering what happens if he has 3 losing seasons? Have at it but it's an odd road to go down at this point. What would happen if any unproven coach came into a full rebuild and didn't have winning BE records for 3 years at Georgetown? He'd probably still have a job but he'd be feeling a little heat. But he'd also not be named Patrick f'ing Ewing. To each his own and I get being down about the past few years. But you're wondering what happens if the most storied player in Georgetown history, an NBA Hall of Famer and a 15 year NBA assistant coach that is having a rough first year of a rebuild as HC continues a pattern that has yet to even be established with a team that he didn't have a chance assemble on his own? Jesus. If it rains for the next three days, what happens if it rains for the next three months? What will we think of the weather then? Not an assumption, I gave a scenario. Edit note: I do not know if you are a Christian or not, but please try not to use the Lord's name in vain. This is only basketball, not a life or death situation. Amen! |
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Feb 4, 2018 14:37:20 GMT -5
As evidence that good coaching can’t always make great players not make mistakes, Desi Rodriguez just let Villanova get a wide open layup under the basket off an inbounds play coming out of a timeout. These are college kids. It happens to all of them. And it happens a lot on reaction plays such as the foul on the three-pointer. It is difficult to coach away reactions. I was more bothered by Jagan's losing Bluiett on that prayer at the end of the first half. But that's just me. Sometimes, the best laid plans go awry. |
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Feb 4, 2018 14:50:28 GMT -5
And it happens a lot on reaction plays such as the foul on the three-pointer. It is difficult to coach away reactions. I was more bothered by Jagan's losing Bluiett on that prayer at the end of the first half. But that's just me. Me too. Seen live I thought he got screened. On replay, he took his eyes off Blueitt at just the instant Blueitt made his break. It was really, really bad. Not quite GIF-worthy like the thing Otto did a couple seasons ago, but in the context of the game, just a dagger. Jagan was ball-watching the dribbler--who was in the opposite corner at least two defenders away--for like a solid second, and Bluiett totally lost him. Whether or not that should be a foul call, it's even a question because Jagan was so badly out of position (and then got screened) he had to make an out of control flying leap to contest the shot and landed with his back to the shooter. The last possession of the first half was similar...he got caught following Macura (I think) with his eyes when JP cut in front of him on the inbounds play with Mulmore covering just fine, and Bluiett cut behind him to the corner and Jagan was that split second late that even with another crazy leap he couldn't contest the shot. Those are frustrating because it's not a weakness in a scheme, it's not necessarily a "not enough talent" thing like the PG situation (though credit to Nolan on Twitter for the observation that part of upgrading talent is eventually you don't have a Jagan covering a Bluiett). It's just brain farts in bad situations. Can you coach around those? You'd like to think so but...I just don't know. It takes time I guess. Really too bad, because the narrative off that pre-game article in the WaPo was how Jagan totally gets the accountability and work required from the backcourt to improve and cut down mistakes exactly like these. |
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Post by bicentennial on Feb 4, 2018 15:17:33 GMT -5
Cutting down turnovers was definitely done. Lost of positives from the game. Not sure that beating up on individual players as a fan is at all helpful. Sure they have all seen film of the game and those who made bad decisions are aware. Disagree that coaching can't help with brain farts. Think repetitively doing drills to teach good habits and get cerebellum instead of cerebrum reacting do lead to better outcomes. Now whether enough time for drills can occurr this late in the season is less clear!
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Feb 4, 2018 15:47:18 GMT -5
Let me say this: I ***LOVE*** contesting and trying to block three-point shots and think it happens far too infrequently. I had the same thought when Allen hit a three toward the end of the SJU-Dook game yesterday: "He never should have gotten off that shot." So, from a conceptual standpoint, I love Jagan wanting to block that shot.
Clearly, in this instance, he had no chance of touching the ball. It was a mistake. If you coach your players to contest those shots aggressively- which you should- then there is no way to "coach around" that mistake. Jagan just was a step late and tried to compensate by making an impossible play. It happens.
In spite of that, I am not sure that tied with the ball for a last shot really is any worse than up one with a free-throw contest in which we will have to inbound the ball without turning it over. We had the ball at the end with a chance to win, but failed to score. That is NOT on Jagan. His foul would have been really horrible if it happened with ten seconds or less, but that was not the case. If Xavier makes any shot there, the Hoyas still need to execute a bunch of plays to win. Thus, any narrative that pins this defeat on Jagan is simply inaccurate and unfair.
Look- things never were as bad as people made them out to be, whether last season, 2004 in the Garden, January 1999, or any other time. I am just as happy and proud as ever to be a Hoya fan. Right now, the Hoyas are a few recruits away from being very competitive again. No one without a crystal ball knows how that will play out. For now, I am proud of how the Hoyas competed last night. On to the next one, head up high. GO HOYAS!!!
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Feb 4, 2018 15:53:19 GMT -5
Disappointed in lost last night, but man was that an exciting game. The young Hoyas lost to the number 6 team in the country who has not lost a game at home this year. I know there is a desire to see the Hoyas in the light of a premiere team who is a few years from playing for the national title, but this program is not that, so in some respects DFW is correct. I was a JT2 fan and viewed the Hoyas through through the prism of his greater than life statue. I still viewed the Hoyas as great post the Mourning/Mutumbo/Iverson years. In reality JT2 was slow to realize the game had changed from a “big man’s” game to a more guard oriented game. The Iverson years prolonged my view of the Hoyas as being a program a few years from the title game. JT2’s retirement and the Eserick years brought me back to reality. The hiring of JTIII and his promise to make people remember who Georgetown really is brought back that rose colored glasses and the Final Four appearance only added to those thoughts. JTIII like his dad failed to realize that the college game had evolved even more than when his dad was coaching into a guard oriented game. He stubbornly sought to prove you could win with very good ,if not great ,forwards and centers as your leaders. He reluctantly saw his error but by then the years of anti-Georgetown propaganda as a death nail for aspiring NBA talent guards had set in. By the time he finally landed that transformative guard, it was too late. The highly taunted recruits(Copeland, White,Peak ,etc. had lost faith in his system and they either transferred or left early. Now the Hoyas have a new savior and that is Ewing. I am now a fan who still has rose colored visions of the Hoyas, but that is tempered with a reality that they are not a year away from the Final Four, but rather a year away from being a team that could compete and beat any team in the BE. My enthusiasm about Ewing accomplishing this is based on two things,(1) the growth that I have seen in the freshmen and the upperclassmen from game one up to now and (2) his obvious system change from Princeton-like to a true uptempo system. He is still a big man’s coach but his experience in the NBA has taught him the need of a good floor leader like Kemba Walker. Eventually, hopefully next year, he will get his “Kimba Walker” to run his team and then those visions of a Hoya national championship run can be there again, but until then let’s enjoy the maturation of these players into a team that plays like the old Hoya teams.
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Post by xudash on Feb 4, 2018 16:05:00 GMT -5
I'm popping in to offer my two cents from the other side of the table:
1. Georgetown played the #6 team in the nation in the Cintas Center to the brink. I believe most of you know how hard it is for opposing teams to win in that building.
2. Trevon Bluiett's overall performance, 4-point play and 3 to end the half were required to beat you, which speaks volumes for how well the Hoyas played.
Sure, the 4-point play should have been 3 at the most, and that would have left you with a one-point lead with under 25 seconds to play, but who knows what would have happened at that point. So, you're kid fouled Trevon and put him on the line. I saw that as your kid hustling his butt off. Hindsight is easy.
Overall, your kids played their hearts out.
That's the main point. Coach Ewing can coach. He has them listening to him. They are improving. It takes time to turn a battleship. From what I saw yesterday of Georgetown, the Hoyas are going to be a force in the Big East again - as they should be - soon enough. With the tradition and resources you have at your disposal, and with Patrick Ewing as the HC, the recruits will come. Again, we all know it's just not about recruiting. Coaching and player development are key. IMHO, Ewing already is demonstrating that he can weave an improving team together over the course of a demanding season.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Feb 4, 2018 16:24:28 GMT -5
I'm popping in to offer my two cents from the other side of the table: 1. Georgetown played the #6 team in the nation in the Cintas Center to the brink. I believe most of you know how hard it is for opposing teams to win in that building. 2. Trevon Bluiett's overall performance, 4-point play and 3 to end the half were required to beat you, which speaks volumes for how well the Hoyas played. Sure, the 4-point play should have been 3 at the most, and that would have left you with a one-point lead with under 25 seconds to play, but who knows what would have happened at that point. So, you're kid fouled Trevon and put him on the line. I saw that as your kid hustling his butt off. Hindsight is easy. Overall, your kids played their hearts out. That's the main point. Coach Ewing can coach. He has them listening to him. They are improving. It takes time to turn a battleship. From what I saw yesterday of Georgetown, the Hoyas are going to be a force in the Big East again - as they should be - soon enough. With the tradition and resources you have at your disposal, and with Patrick Ewing as the HC, the recruits will come. Again, we all know it's just not about recruiting. Coaching and player development are key. IMHO, Ewing already is demonstrating that he can weave an improving team together over the course of a demanding season. Thanks. And good luck against Villanova. |
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s4hoyas
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Post by s4hoyas on Feb 4, 2018 16:26:26 GMT -5
I was VERY PROUD of our players and coaches last night...tremendous preparation and effort, and these were evident in the stats/totals...we out rebounded a very strong rebounding team, and out assisted them, while cutting our turnovers down considerably...our passing was more decisive, our ball movement in general much better...and still, we can shoot better, but I like that guys are willing to take open shots...we still need to tighten our interior defense and stop the
bail out/unnecessary fouls (especially out on the perimeter)...Govan and Derrickson were huge and played like upper classmen...Pickett and Blair were excellent and are showing tremendous growth...clearly, we've still got to execute better in our last possessions (we got caught up in ring around the rosey perimeter
possessions, in part I think trying to avoid shooting too soon and leaving time on the clock, but it just created indecision)...I thought the officiating
clearly favored them, and it hurt, but its not an excuse...we had 'em beat inspite of it...the rest of the Big East better hope we don't keep playing like this AND THEN making strong finishes, cause if we do we're gonna kick some ass...I know Provy has beaten us 6 times in a row or whatever...keep Cartwright from going left into the lane and stay on Lindsey in the corner...all steaks come to an end..
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