Mass Shootings

[DanMcQ]

[DanMcQ]

A few of the seriously injured children survived and are with us now. They are being treated for what Dr. Lillian Liao, the pediatric-trauma medical director and one of the surgeons who is caring for them, has called “destructive wounds,” where large areas of tissue have been removed from the body. But the mass-casualty event we had prepared for never arrived. Even overnight, my colleagues were still making ready and hoping to receive children from Uvalde. Eighteen children dead. Then nineteen. For all our preparation, our exquisite training, and our resources, we could not help them. The shooter used an AR-15-style rifle. He fired bullet after bullet into children’s faces and chests, their soft bellies, their heads. A Level 1 trauma center can do nothing for children whose bodies are so destroyed by bullets. We kept wishing to help them, even as it became clear that they were already dead.

This is what we reap when we allow our "leaders" who are overly beholden to the lucre showered upon them by groups like the NRA to uphold obscene gun laws under the guise of "patriotism" and the "right to bear arms."

Shameful doesn't even begin to approach it.

#StopGunViolence

[bluegray79]

Those same "leaders" are counting on us to let the shock and anger at this abomination slowly fade with time. They can wait because that's what they've done every time there's an incident so jolting and horrific that they fear that we can't not do something to prevent it from happening again. The media will soon move on to the next story and the next one, the "leaders" will shuffle their feet, make pronouncements and accusations and statements that make it appear like they care and are trying to do something. They'll push it into the future, say we can't make these changes when families are still grieving and everyone is so emotional. They'll blame the other side. They'll offer proposals they know won't pass. And they'll tell us lies about why they can't do anything about it. They know they can do that because it's what they do every time. Meanwhile, we will shake our fists at the heavens and curse at the whole mess, try to keep it current and push to make changes. But life and the daily grind and time will have their way, and the "leaders" know it, they count on it, they reassure each other of it, and that is where we will find ourselves when the next shooting happens.

I have as my goal not to fall into that sh*tty, existential Groundhog's Day. I won't be able to face myself if I do, and I refuse to give those b@st@rds that victory over me. I'm going to keep doing something everyday to learn more, find others to connect with and do more, and keep coming here to keep this thread active. If you have any ideas or suggestions to work toward positive, meaningful change -- even if it's small, please share here. Thanks. Let's show them how they have misjudged us for the last time and we're in this for the long haul. #StopGunViolence

[bluegray79]

Ways to get involved and support an end to children being killed in their classrooms, shoppers in their grocery stores, people in their parks, movie theaters, street festivals, places of worship, malls, subways, workplaces, hotels, homes, and neighborhoods.

www.sandyhookpromise.org/
www.bradyunited.org/
momsdemandaction.org/
giffords.org/
www.csgv.org/
www.everytown.org/

These are a few of many. Some people have time, others have money to donate, others have ideas and organizing skills -- whatever you have to help in even a small way, do it. Share these links, start the conversations, make connections, join others, use your voice -- the only way we lose is if we don't try.
#StopGunViolence. #ProtectOurKids

[SSHoya]

First thing to do is simply vote against any politician at the local, state and federal level who has kowtowed to the NRA.

TORONTO — Canada on Monday introduced new gun-control legislation that, if passed, would implement a “national freeze” on buying, importing, transferring and selling handguns, effectively capping the number of such weapons already in the country.

www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/05/30/canada-gun-control-handguns-assault-weapons/

[bluegray79]

List of Senators who have received money from the NRA -- and how to send them a message

elections.bradyunited.org/take-action/nra-donations-116th-congress-senators?gclid=Cj0KCQjw-daUBhCIARIsALbkjSYfcI7WTyPSVpQhmvxprXgRDL14z_SzveHjBmKougnMFEWjwyr_jGEaAsGkEALw_wcB

[blueeagle]

May 31, 2022 5:02:54 GMT -5 bluegray79 said:

Ways to get involved and support an end to children being killed in their classrooms, shoppers in their grocery stores, people in their parks, movie theaters, street festivals, places of worship, malls, subways, workplaces, hotels, homes, and neighborhoods.

www.sandyhookpromise.org/
www.bradyunited.org/
momsdemandaction.org/
giffords.org/
www.csgv.org/
www.everytown.org/

These are a few of many. Some people have time, others have money to donate, others have ideas and organizing skills -- whatever you have to help in even a small way, do it. Share these links, start the conversations, make connections, join others, use your voice -- the only way we lose is if we don't try.
#StopGunViolence. #ProtectOurKids

Thank you for providing this list. My wife and I have been going back and forth all weekend on figuring out ways to contribute to changing the culture of guns and violence in this country.

[hoyarooter]

The obvious solution, of course, is more guns in the hands of good people, teachers, for example, so they can deal with the bad people with the guns.

It just makes me want to scream. Bluegray79's analysis is spot on. The politicians, at least one "party" in particular, are just hoping that this will go away, as it has every time before, and I think they can fairly be called out that they value guns more than the safety of our children. This should be a talking point for the upcoming election every single day until something is done. And I don't want to hear, oh, it's just a mental health issue. Sure, it's a mental health issue, but that is absolutely not the only issue that needs addressing.

[bluegray79]

That's essential to guide us in dealing with people who say that the Uvalde shooter did all these things legally and, look, it still happened. So it must be a mentally ill, bad apple, evil incarnate -- and what can you with that do except...thoughts and prayers?

When you acknowledge and start from a place that agrees that it's a complex problem with complex causes, you can't propose or dismiss a single solution because by itself, it will not solve this problem. But it might address one aspect of it, and if we can build on one or 2 improvements and keep pushing on every front, we'll see something positive happening.

Hell, we know of several measures that will make things safer starting tomorrow. Banning assault weapons, for one. Red flag laws, universal background checks, and a nation-wide age minimum of 21 years would all be great. The fact that the bipartisan conversations going on are as tame and tepid as can be is indicative of where we are.

Oh, and if this 18-year old did everything legally and still was able to kill 19 4th graders and 2 teachers, as well as injure dozens more and scar countless families and friends forever -- well, doesn't that tell you that what's "legal" is in-f-king-sane and maybe we start there??? Everything has to be rooted in "Are you o.k. with children getting murdered in their classrooms and folks getting gunned down in their grocery store or mall or movie theater or anywhere? No? O.K., then what can we do to stop it? Oh, you have no real answers or suggestions? Then you care about guns, money, & power more than you care about children and innocent people being murdered. Go away, search for your conscience and soul, and when you find them, come back and we can talk."

[SSHoya]

Now the MAGA GOP coverup can't blame a teacher as it initially tried. Everyone and everything at fault except the easy availability of semi-automatic weapons for 18-year olds, which were banned from 1994-2004.

Four days after saying that the gunman who massacred children in a Uvalde, Tex., elementary school had gotten inside through a door “propped open by a teacher,” the state agency investigating the massacre now says the educator had closed the door.

www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/31/uvalde-teacher-door-closed/

[DanMcQ]

[Massholya]

Jun 1, 2022 6:02:28 GMT -5 DanMcQ said:

Oh god. Then they try to push them all into virtual for profit Christian home schools owned by Betsy Devos.

[tashoya]

Jun 1, 2022 8:43:23 GMT -5 Massholya said:

Jun 1, 2022 6:02:28 GMT -5 DanMcQ said:

Oh god. Then they try to push them all into virtual for profit Christian home schools owned by Betsy Devos.

Could be. But, that would require "Republicans" to actually care about education. If there's enough money in it for them, they may start.

[tashoya]

[blueeagle]

What are the equivalents of cancer warning labels and the attitude towards secondhand smoke when applied to guns?

[SSHoya]

Jun 1, 2022 10:16:17 GMT -5 blueeagle said:

What are the equivalents of cancer warning labels and the attitude towards secondhand smoke when applied to guns?

We should also remember that the gun industry is immune from civil liability unlike Big Tobacco. Thus, by and large, warning labels are not needed to protect the gun industry from liability. Moreover, the cancer warning labels were required through a federal statute. In 1969 Congress passed the Public Health Cigarette Smoking Act (Public Law 91–222), which prohibited cigarette advertising on television and radio and required that each cigarette package contain the label “Warning: The Surgeon General Has Determined That Cigarette Smoking Is Dangerous to Your Health.”

The Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA) was enacted in 2005 following extensive lobbying by the gun industry to shield gun manufacturers and dealers from civil litigation. The effort to enact this law was a reaction to numerous lawsuits in the early 1990s filed on behalf of more than 40 cities; these lawsuits advanced a novel legal argument alleging that gun manufacturers created a public nuisance through sales practices that enabled firearms to be sold illegally in secondary markets and to be illegally trafficked, after which they ended up being used to commit violent crimes. Not all of these lawsuits were successful, but many resulted in settlement agreements through which gun manufacturers were required to implement new practices and standards to help reduce illegal gun trafficking—such as videotaping sales, implementing a computerized system to track crime gun traces, and increasing training for employees.

Since its enactment, the PLCAA has largely closed the courthouse doors to victims and municipal leaders seeking redress from the courts for the harm caused by gun violence. The act has largely succeeded in preventing lawsuits attempting to hold the gun industry accountable. Since 2005, only a handful of cases against the gun industry have survived pretrial dismissal efforts and made it to a jury trial, meaning many valid cases are dismissed before evidence of industry wrongdoing is even considered:

www.americanprogress.org/article/frequently-asked-questions-gun-industry-immunity/

[bluegray79]

Jun 1, 2022 4:59:06 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

Now the MAGA GOP coverup can't blame a teacher as it initially tried. Everyone and everything at fault except the easy availability of semi-automatic weapons for 18-year olds, which were banned from 1994-2004.

Four days after saying that the gunman who massacred children in a Uvalde, Tex., elementary school had gotten inside through a door “propped open by a teacher,” the state agency investigating the massacre now says the educator had closed the door.

www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/31/uvalde-teacher-door-closed/

Total blinders and cognitive dissonance abounds.  I'm glad the finding is that the door wasn't left open by a teacher, but I'm inclined to go first to the 19 police officers dispatched to the scene who had special training for this very type of situation -- all good guys with guns, one would presume -- who did little to nothing to help the students in Rooms 111 and 112.  So for anyone thinking we can arm more and more people to protect our schools, no.  Most schools prepare and practice for such events, and Robb Elementary seemed to have done due diligence in that regard.  And even with that, the human error and judgment was inexplicably poor. Everyone who has been in extreme duress and shock-inducing events may know that we practice and prepare, but nothing can predict that events and reactions will unfold as expected.

Still, to get bogged down in that discussion is to ignore that what brought an 18-year old with 2 legally purchased AR-15's to an elementary school with the intent to harm others. So, if the first conversation starter is "Are you o.k. with children getting murdered in their classrooms and folks getting gunned down in their grocery store or mall or movie theater or anywhere?", the followup can/should be "Do you think all of the factors that lead up to an incident like those in Buffalo or Uvalde are o.k., i.e., in the best interest of the safety of school and community members?"  THAT's where the discussion needs to focus ultimately, I think.  It will stop Ted Cruz, et.al. from proposing "hardening" a venue by making only one entrance and one exit with armed guards, etc. -- that will do nothing except make our schools and public places even more like a prison.  It will also open up a chance to talk about restricted access to guns, universal background checks, red flag laws, banning assault weapons, gun owner safety and storage, training and registration whe you buy a gun and regular renewal of those.

I mostly want to be this guy when I'm out playing superhero:  

[SSHoya]

To apply the MAGA GOP/NRA approach to gun safety to drunk driving: "What we need to do is improve seat belts, design roads differently, engineer safer cars. Drinking alcohol has nothing to do with drunk driving deaths."

[madgesiq92]

If all of the necessary gun restrictions are implemented into law, will prosecutors be able to get criminal convictions?

www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2022/06/01/gun-seizures-dc/

[blueeagle]

Let us restrict access, freedom, and movement to places of leisure, worship, and learning, but let us not restrict access to weapons designed to destroy and kill.

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness... not at the expense of our AR-15's.