2020 Recruiting Thread

[NCHoya]

Feb 20, 2020 16:27:50 GMT -5 calhoya said:

Feb 20, 2020 15:55:13 GMT -5 madgesiq92 said:

Its possible that next year may be our toughest year (record wise) under Ewing, but also the year that holds the most promise for the future. Understanding the type of program we are, we have to assume that Georgetown is going to give Pat a reset based on the events of this year, and give him an opportunity to rebuild next year.

I like all of our recruits, but because of our decimated roster, we are likely to have kids in the rotation that in another program you wouldn't expect to be contributing major minutes until year 2-3. This will not be the 2008 Hoyas with McD AA's Wright, Freeman and Macklin coming off the bench. Experience of Allen and Mosely will be difficult to replace.

My guess is that if all breaks right, 2022 is the year we return to the tournament.

Well I hope that you are being far too pessimistic. If Ewing does not get the Hoyas back to the tournament until 2022 then I consider his hiring a failure. It's not that hard to turn a program around these days. We are talking about making a 68 team tourney, not winning it. I cannot treat the mid-season losses as something which gives the coaches a pass. At most this gives the coaches a pass for this season. Truth is that if Ewing can coach--and I am believing in him more all the time--the availability of grad transfers, late commits and decommits should make it possible for a program to rise quickly. It comes down to picking kids that are going to fit his system, play together and who will make the effort to develop. It then comes down to finding a coaching staff to facilitate that development. I want 4* and 5* recruits too, but if you stack up on kids with less notoriety coming in then it is on the coach to develop them and the program should not have to wait 5 years to get back in the tournament.

I agree, it should not be this hard given what Georgetown has to offer. Even Mullin got SJU to the NCAAs in year 4! Of course Mullin also left the SJU program a mess and was never as engaged in all aspects of the program like Ewing.

With that said, I think the admin will definitely give Ewing 5 years and that puts us right at the 2022 NCAAs. That is a long drought. Perhaps the only way I would not see things pessimistically is if there were clear signals of sustained success on the horizon. Kevin Willard did not make the NCAAs until year 6, while it is admirable that SHU could be that patient, I just do not feel GU should be. We should have higher expectations of this program.

[guru]

Feb 20, 2020 15:55:13 GMT -5 madgesiq92 said:

Its possible that next year may be our toughest year (record wise) under Ewing, but also the year that holds the most promise for the future. Understanding the type of program we are, we have to assume that Georgetown is going to give Pat a reset based on the events of this year, and give him an opportunity to rebuild next year.

I like all of our recruits, but because of our decimated roster, we are likely to have kids in the rotation that in another program you wouldn't expect to be contributing major minutes until year 2-3. This will not be the 2008 Hoyas with McD AA's Wright, Freeman and Macklin coming off the bench. Experience of Allen and Mosely will be difficult to replace.

My guess is that if all breaks right, 2022 is the year we return to the tournament.

2008 team won one game in NCAA tourney. This years team could conceivably still achieve that. Talk about a waste of talent that season. And look at the player who beat them - More proof that rankings don’t matter all that much.

[EtomicB]

Feb 20, 2020 17:20:34 GMT -5 NCHoya said:

Feb 20, 2020 16:27:50 GMT -5 calhoya said:

Well I hope that you are being far too pessimistic. If Ewing does not get the Hoyas back to the tournament until 2022 then I consider his hiring a failure. It's not that hard to turn a program around these days. We are talking about making a 68 team tourney, not winning it. I cannot treat the mid-season losses as something which gives the coaches a pass. At most this gives the coaches a pass for this season. Truth is that if Ewing can coach--and I am believing in him more all the time--the availability of grad transfers, late commits and decommits should make it possible for a program to rise quickly. It comes down to picking kids that are going to fit his system, play together and who will make the effort to develop. It then comes down to finding a coaching staff to facilitate that development. I want 4* and 5* recruits too, but if you stack up on kids with less notoriety coming in then it is on the coach to develop them and the program should not have to wait 5 years to get back in the tournament.

I agree, it should not be this hard given what Georgetown has to offer. Even Mullin got SJU to the NCAAs in year 4! Of course Mullin also left the SJU program a mess and was never as engaged in all aspects of the program like Ewing.

With that said, I think the admin will definitely give Ewing 5 years and that puts us right at the 2022 NCAAs. That is a long drought. Perhaps the only way I would not see things pessimistically is if there were clear signals of sustained success on the horizon. Kevin Willard did not make the NCAAs until year 6, while it is admirable that SHU could be that patient, I just do not feel GU should be. We should have higher expectations of this program.

Before the start of year 4, Willard had commitments from the #14(Whitehead) and the #42(Delgado) recruits in the 2014 class...

That's what bought him extra time at Seton Hall in my opinion...

Let's be honest after the way the team has performed after the transfers, PE is gonna get a longer chance to right the ship...

[skunk]

Time to go get Frankie Collins now and add a grad transfer wing

[DFW HOYA]

Feb 20, 2020 17:20:34 GMT -5 NCHoya said:

With that said, I think the admin will definitely give Ewing 5 years and that puts us right at the 2022 NCAAs. That is a long drought. Perhaps the only way I would not see things pessimistically is if there were clear signals of sustained success on the horizon. Kevin Willard did not make the NCAAs until year 6, while it is admirable that SHU could be that patient, I just do not feel GU should be. We should have higher expectations of this program.

And then what? Does a first round NCAA loss reset the clock for another five years?

Ewing is not the problem here, it's bigger than that. The problem is that the highest levels of the University understand an inconvenient truth that many fans pay no attention to--the Georgetown basketball model is not sustainable at the present level of performance.

In the most recent public reports, Georgetown had the ninth highest basketball budget of 351 schools, nearly $1M more than Kansas, $3M more than North Carolina, and nearly $5M more than Xavier. And while Georgetown keeps other men's sports on a strict diet to keep basketball's plate full, the results aren't there. One NCAA tournament in eight years. Eighth of ten Big East teams in attendance, no matter how you count it. A continual decline in licensing royalties as would be expected for a team that many recruits have no memory of its prior success. Maybe Seton Hall was patient with Willard because they spend nearly half as much as what GU does, or maybe it's that the SHU job wasn't that much in demand.

Saturday's game with DePaul, easily the most dysfunctional program in major college basketball, is Ewing's 90th game as a coach. Here's how his record stacks up against his recent predecessors through 89 games:

Craig Esherick: 55-34, 22-24 Big East, 1 NCAA bid, 2 NIT
John Thompson III: 61-28, 28-17 Big East, 2 NCAA bids, 1 NIT
Patrick Ewing: 49-40, 19-30 Big East, 0 NCAA, 1 NIT

Patrick Ewing wasn't hired out of some sort of fear of John Thompson. He was hired to kick-start the program and align it to where it ought to have been at the 2013 realignment (read=where Villanova is now). Remember when Georgetown was a regular Top 20 entrant? When it was Top 10? When it was a #1 or #2 seed in the Big East tournament, and you already penciled in a Friday night doubleheader at the Garden and were checking air fares for the first and second rounds because you just knew they'd be there? Yes, that seems like long time ago. And it is. Every Big East team except DePaul and Georgetown has been ranked nationally in the last five years, and every one other than those two has earned an NCAA bid.

Ewing still has the institutional support to do so. But saying he has five years or six years or even 10 years to get an NCAA bid misses the point. If Georgetown is spending like a Final Four contender with NIT results on a consistent basis, it's not a sustainable business model. One NCAA bid and a Tuesday game in Dayton doesn't mean it's mission accomplished. Either this team has to get much better across the board to justify the investment that it currently enjoys and start delivering on that investment, or you're asking to Georgetown to consider resetting the expectations that men's basketball can aspire to be good, but never great, going forward.

[cthoya16]

Hurley needs to stay away from frankie collins!

[justsaying]

This team was heading to be a ranked squad this season before the various young men's situations caused a pause on those plans.

[wolveribe]

Feb 20, 2020 15:55:13 GMT -5 madgesiq92 said:

Its possible that next year may be our toughest year (record wise) under Ewing, but also the year that holds the most promise for the future. Understanding the type of program we are, we have to assume that Georgetown is going to give Pat a reset based on the events of this year, and give him an opportunity to rebuild next year.

I like all of our recruits, but because of our decimated roster, we are likely to have kids in the rotation that in another program you wouldn't expect to be contributing major minutes until year 2-3. This will not be the 2008 Hoyas with McD AA's Wright, Freeman and Macklin coming off the bench. Experience of Allen and Mosely will be difficult to replace.

My guess is that if all breaks right, 2022 is the year we return to the tournament.

Maybe Im missing something, but I expect the team can be improved next year.  Mosely and Allen will be tough to replace.  We have a natural replacement for Yurt and the development of Wilson and Tim could provide cover.  Pickett and Blair will be seniors.  Mac will be a a junior.  Beard/Sibley/Clark all have the ability to contribute Day 1.  

Of course, we would be expecting a lot from Beard and its why I think a grad transfer PG would be a massive addition.  But, next years team should be more talented the the scaled down version of this years team.  

[bornhoya]

Besides nova who else doesn’t have holes next year in conference

[Deleted]

Feb 20, 2020 21:17:51 GMT -5 wolveribe said:

Feb 20, 2020 15:55:13 GMT -5 madgesiq92 said:

Its possible that next year may be our toughest year (record wise) under Ewing, but also the year that holds the most promise for the future. Understanding the type of program we are, we have to assume that Georgetown is going to give Pat a reset based on the events of this year, and give him an opportunity to rebuild next year.

I like all of our recruits, but because of our decimated roster, we are likely to have kids in the rotation that in another program you wouldn't expect to be contributing major minutes until year 2-3. This will not be the 2008 Hoyas with McD AA's Wright, Freeman and Macklin coming off the bench. Experience of Allen and Mosely will be difficult to replace.

My guess is that if all breaks right, 2022 is the year we return to the tournament.

Maybe Im missing something, but I expect the team can be improved next year.  Mosely and Allen will be tough to replace.  We have a natural replacement for Yurt and the development of Wilson and Tim could provide cover.  Pickett and Blair will be seniors.  Mac will be a a junior.  Beard/Sibley/Clark all have the ability to contribute Day 1.  

Of course, we would be expecting a lot from Beard and its why I think a grad transfer PG would be a massive addition.  But, next years team should be more talented the the scaled down version of this years team.  

Agreed. Allen and Mosley’s leadership will be missed but I think we will be more talented next year (compared to our current roster, not beginning of year roster). Beard can step right in a be a productive PG immediately and Kobe looks like he can play the 3. We aren’t getting many points from Mosley (I think his shoulder has been bothering him for a the past month), just solid D and good decision making which Kobe seems capable of. Mac will be a year older (and healthy), Blair looks so much more comfortable/confident, Qudus will be a year older/more skilled, and Pickett could certainly have a breakout year. There are a lot of stars leaving the conference, I’d be surprised if we struggled in conference next year-especially if we add a solid grad/juco piece...

[adm1hoya]

Wahab is another yr. away, imo. We need a Grad transfer C or PF. Qudus isn't ready to be a full time starter due to his foul trouble. Another yr. of backing up, and a breakout Junior season follows.

[doc2122]

SMH! Before the providence game we are talking about Coach of the year and now hes on the hot seat. Ewing has proved he can recruit and coach. Hope he is here for 20 years. How are the 1 and dones working out all over the country? Keep building a program Coach.

[mdtd]

Feb 20, 2020 21:30:05 GMT -5 bornhoya said:

Besides nova who else doesn’t have holes next year in conference

Creighton. They lose almost nothing and are REALLY good this year. Plus, Epperson should be healed so they actually gain a big man. Creighton is my early pick to win the conference. 

[rhw485]

Feb 20, 2020 21:50:19 GMT -5 @pahoyafan2 said:

Feb 20, 2020 21:17:51 GMT -5 wolveribe said:

Maybe Im missing something, but I expect the team can be improved next year.  Mosely and Allen will be tough to replace.  We have a natural replacement for Yurt and the development of Wilson and Tim could provide cover.  Pickett and Blair will be seniors.  Mac will be a a junior.  Beard/Sibley/Clark all have the ability to contribute Day 1.  

Of course, we would be expecting a lot from Beard and its why I think a grad transfer PG would be a massive addition.  But, next years team should be more talented the the scaled down version of this years team.  

Agreed. Allen and Mosley’s leadership will be missed but I think we will be more talented next year (compared to our current roster, not beginning of year roster). Beard can step right in a be a productive PG immediately and Kobe looks like he can play the 3. We aren’t getting many points from Mosley (I think his shoulder has been bothering him for a the past month), just solid D and good decision making which Kobe seems capable of. Mac will be a year older (and healthy), Blair looks so much more comfortable/confident, Qudus will be a year older/more skilled, and Pickett could certainly have a breakout year. There are a lot of stars leaving the conference, I’d be surprised if we struggled in conference next year-especially if we add a solid grad/juco piece...

this thread is veering into the "Program Approach from Coaching Ewing" thread on the main page but I'll throw my two cents in here.

I think it is borderline unrealistic to expect the team to be better next year.  Just casually throwing out that Kobe Clark can do the same thing sr. year Mosely is providing this team just highlights our over-excitement for freshmen based on highlight videos.

And that is not a shot at Kobe or the rest of the class.  Ewing is clearly gravitating to under-recruited / chip on their shoulder guys (either by choice, or maybe necessity) and I hope by the time they're upper classmen this program is back where we all want it to be.

But we're losing 3 of a 7 man rotation.  Asking Wahab to provide the same offensive anchor that Yurt7 does is a lot.  Mosely and Allen are our two best perimeter defenders by far.  And our defense is still 120th in the country.  Neither Pickett nor Mac have shown to be an offensively efficient player against Big East competition.  

Freshmen are going to make freshmen mistakes.  There will be turnovers and poor decisions...and then glimmers of hope for the future that get us excited.  

Hope they prove me wrong and i'll gladly admit it next March if we're dancing

[njhoyalawya]

Feb 20, 2020 21:53:16 GMT -5 adm1hoya said:

Wahab is another yr. away, imo. We need a Grad transfer C or PF. Qudus isn't ready to be a full time starter due to his foul trouble. Another yr. of backing up, and a breakout Junior season follows.

I know Qudus is not at the same level as Freshman-year Ewing, but I recall Coach spending a lot of his Freshman year in foul trouble.  With Coach's guidance, I feel Qudus will show improvement in this area next year.  And, in addition to Tim, Wilson should be ready for back-up minutes at Center as well.  I am not saying that a grad transfer would not be helpful -- it certainly would be -- but I am not going to loose sleep if it does not happen.  

[calhoya]

Feb 20, 2020 22:13:31 GMT -5 doc2122 said:

SMH! Before the providence game we are talking about Coach of the year and now hes on the hot seat. Ewing has proved he can recruit and coach. Hope he is here for 20 years. How are the 1 and dones working out all over the country? Keep building a program Coach.

Your point is well-taken and no one can or does think that Ewing is on the hot-seat, but it is exactly because of what Ewing has done with some very difficult challenges this year that expectations for next year should not be lowered. He has shown in the past two months he can coach and motivate with a very limited and incomplete roster, and he has shown that he can recruit contributing grad transfers like Allen and Malinowski, so why should he get an automatic pass for next year that almost no other coach would get. He can coach. He has shown recruiting effort, though with mixed results, but that is true of most coaches. I just cannot sit here and say that the 2020-2021 season is already in the category of a rebuild--at least not in today's world of college basketball when a coach with 6-7 scholarships can bring in players who can instantly contribute and turn around a team's fortunes.

[njhoyalawya]

Feb 20, 2020 22:13:31 GMT -5 doc2122 said:

SMH! Before the providence game we are talking about Coach of the year and now hes on the hot seat. Ewing has proved he can recruit and coach. Hope he is here for 20 years. How are the 1 and dones working out all over the country? Keep building a program Coach.

Exactly.  I'd rather have a team of hard-working 3/4-stars who stay and develop over 4 years, than an entitled-minded 5-star mainly concerned about his own NBA future.

[NCHoya]

Feb 20, 2020 19:03:51 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Feb 20, 2020 17:20:34 GMT -5 NCHoya said:

With that said, I think the admin will definitely give Ewing 5 years and that puts us right at the 2022 NCAAs. That is a long drought. Perhaps the only way I would not see things pessimistically is if there were clear signals of sustained success on the horizon. Kevin Willard did not make the NCAAs until year 6, while it is admirable that SHU could be that patient, I just do not feel GU should be. We should have higher expectations of this program.

And then what? Does a first round NCAA loss reset the clock for another five years?

Ewing is not the problem here, it's bigger than that. The problem is that the highest levels of the University understand an inconvenient truth that many fans pay no attention to--the Georgetown basketball model is not sustainable at the present level of performance.

In the most recent public reports, Georgetown had the ninth highest basketball budget of 351 schools, nearly $1M more than Kansas, $3M more than North Carolina, and nearly $5M more than Xavier. And while Georgetown keeps other men's sports on a strict diet to keep basketball's plate full, the results aren't there. One NCAA tournament in eight years. Eighth of ten Big East teams in attendance, no matter how you count it. A continual decline in licensing royalties as would be expected for a team that many recruits have no memory of its prior success. Maybe Seton Hall was patient with Willard because they spend nearly half as much as what GU does, or maybe it's that the SHU job wasn't that much in demand.

Saturday's game with DePaul, easily the most dysfunctional program in major college basketball, is Ewing's 90th game as a coach. Here's how his record stacks up against his recent predecessors through 89 games:

Craig Esherick: 55-34, 22-24 Big East, 1 NCAA bid, 2 NIT
John Thompson III: 61-28, 28-17 Big East, 2 NCAA bids, 1 NIT
Patrick Ewing: 49-40, 19-30 Big East, 0 NCAA, 1 NIT

Patrick Ewing wasn't hired out of some sort of fear of John Thompson. He was hired to kick-start the program and align it to where it ought to have been at the 2013 realignment (read=where Villanova is now). Remember when Georgetown was a regular Top 20 entrant? When it was Top 10? When it was a #1 or #2 seed in the Big East tournament, and you already penciled in a Friday night doubleheader at the Garden and were checking air fares for the first and second rounds because you just knew they'd be there? Yes, that seems like long time ago. And it is. Every Big East team except DePaul and Georgetown has been ranked nationally in the last five years, and every one other than those two has earned an NCAA bid.

Ewing still has the institutional support to do so. But saying he has five years or six years or even 10 years to get an NCAA bid misses the point. If Georgetown is spending like a Final Four contender with NIT results on a consistent basis, it's not a sustainable business model. One NCAA bid and a Tuesday game in Dayton doesn't mean it's mission accomplished. Either this team has to get much better across the board to justify the investment that it currently enjoys and start delivering on that investment, or you're asking to Georgetown to consider resetting the expectations that men's basketball can aspire to be good, but never great, going forward.

Wait, what? I wrote that Ewing should NOT get 6 years, and I also noted 5 years is a long drought, and I said nothing about expectations once he reaches the NCAAs. My natural assumption is once we make the NCAAs, it becomes a regular occurrence? Who would ever think otherwise? Are there really people that are saying making the NCAAs every 4 years is acceptable - come on, that is ridiculous - no one is saying that at all.

I used SHU as the only example I could find where a high program would wait so long, and I said Georgetown should NOT do the same.

I have been on the record that NCAAs is the annual expectation of this program, and I am not satisfied with the way things are going. I thought my post was pretty clear, but you omitted the first part of my post? I wrote it should not be this hard with GU's resources which is essentially what you are saying?

And by the way, I agree with everything you wrote.

[guru]

Feb 21, 2020 7:53:54 GMT -5 calhoya said:

Feb 20, 2020 22:13:31 GMT -5 doc2122 said:

SMH! Before the providence game we are talking about Coach of the year and now hes on the hot seat. Ewing has proved he can recruit and coach. Hope he is here for 20 years. How are the 1 and dones working out all over the country? Keep building a program Coach.

Your point is well-taken and no one can or does think that Ewing is on the hot-seat, but it is exactly because of what Ewing has done with some very difficult challenges this year that expectations for next year should not be lowered. He has shown in the past two months he can coach and motivate with a very limited and incomplete roster, and he has shown that he can recruit contributing grad transfers like Allen and Malinowski, so why should he get an automatic pass for next year that almost no other coach would get. He can coach. He has shown recruiting effort, though with mixed results, but that is true of most coaches. I just cannot sit here and say that the 2020-2021 season is already in the category of a rebuild--at least not in today's world of college basketball when a coach with 6-7 scholarships can bring in players who can instantly contribute and turn around a team's fortunes.

Totally agree. It seems that the gloom-and-doom crowd predicting how awful the team will be next season is the same old anti-Ewing agenda crew. In current environment of college basketball, there is no reason next years roster shouldn’t compete for an NCAA bid. And as you state, Ewing has proven he can coach ‘em up. His biggest fault so far has been the type of kids he has brought in. If he doesn’t fix that he’s toast. But I believe that given smooth personnel waters we will be in the tournament next season. And I haven’t given up on this one either.

I think we may be playing the second weekend in a month in fact. How’s that sound?

[Bigs"R"Us]

I love Pat and want him to remain as coach, but we will be no better next year and will not make the NCAAs. That’s just my opinion from where we sit today. Can’t make up for the loss of three upperclassmen starters.