wolveribe
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Post by wolveribe on Feb 21, 2020 10:17:26 GMT -5
Wahab is another yr. away, imo. We need a Grad transfer C or PF. Qudus isn't ready to be a full time starter due to his foul trouble. Another yr. of backing up, and a breakout Junior season follows. I think Wahab is ready now. The impact he makes on the defensive end (without blocks) is massive compared the last few years (and Yurt). Foul trouble is a bit of concern but he should be the starter and have it written in stone next year. Timmy and Wilson can continue to develop as backups. The addition of any grad C will just stunt the development of those 3, IMO. I would focus our energy elsewhere. |
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wolveribe
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Post by wolveribe on Feb 21, 2020 10:23:54 GMT -5
Agreed. Allen and Mosley’s leadership will be missed but I think we will be more talented next year (compared to our current roster, not beginning of year roster). Beard can step right in a be a productive PG immediately and Kobe looks like he can play the 3. We aren’t getting many points from Mosley (I think his shoulder has been bothering him for a the past month), just solid D and good decision making which Kobe seems capable of. Mac will be a year older (and healthy), Blair looks so much more comfortable/confident, Qudus will be a year older/more skilled, and Pickett could certainly have a breakout year. There are a lot of stars leaving the conference, I’d be surprised if we struggled in conference next year-especially if we add a solid grad/juco piece... this thread is veering into the "Program Approach from Coaching Ewing" thread on the main page but I'll throw my two cents in here. I think it is borderline unrealistic to expect the team to be better next year. Just casually throwing out that Kobe Clark can do the same thing sr. year Mosely is providing this team just highlights our over-excitement for freshmen based on highlight videos. And that is not a shot at Kobe or the rest of the class. Ewing is clearly gravitating to under-recruited / chip on their shoulder guys (either by choice, or maybe necessity) and I hope by the time they're upper classmen this program is back where we all want it to be. But we're losing 3 of a 7 man rotation. Asking Wahab to provide the same offensive anchor that Yurt7 does is a lot. Mosely and Allen are our two best perimeter defenders by far. And our defense is still 120th in the country. Neither Pickett nor Mac have shown to be an offensively efficient player against Big East competition. Freshmen are going to make freshmen mistakes. There will be turnovers and poor decisions...and then glimmers of hope for the future that get us excited. Hope they prove me wrong and i'll gladly admit it next March if we're dancing I absolutely love Allen and Mosely and they have given us everything they have this year. Their leadership and grit have helped push us through. In terms of their actual play........they've been....ok..... How else would we describe it? Im under the assumption that a grad PG will be on the way because I don't expect the reigns to be given to 2 freshman. As much as Yurt gives us at times, at times he's completely unplayable. I expect us to be better at the 5 spot next year (considering offense and defense) because it will be another year of growth from all 3 of the centers. Mac is Mac obviously but he's still just a sophomore and I think we've seen gradual improvement. Blair has been a revelation and if given the chance can score a ton of buckets next year. This team right now has no margin of error and if 1-2 guys aren't on, then its really difficult to overcome. Next year there will be more depth all around. I think people tend to dismiss that players will typically improve year to year and focus on what we are losing. |
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Post by augustusfinknottle on Feb 21, 2020 10:35:19 GMT -5
With that said, I think the admin will definitely give Ewing 5 years and that puts us right at the 2022 NCAAs. That is a long drought. Perhaps the only way I would not see things pessimistically is if there were clear signals of sustained success on the horizon. Kevin Willard did not make the NCAAs until year 6, while it is admirable that SHU could be that patient, I just do not feel GU should be. We should have higher expectations of this program. And then what? Does a first round NCAA loss reset the clock for another five years? Ewing is not the problem here, it's bigger than that. The problem is that the highest levels of the University understand an inconvenient truth that many fans pay no attention to--the Georgetown basketball model is not sustainable at the present level of performance. In the most recent public reports, Georgetown had the ninth highest basketball budget of 351 schools, nearly $1M more than Kansas, $3M more than North Carolina, and nearly $5M more than Xavier. And while Georgetown keeps other men's sports on a strict diet to keep basketball's plate full, the results aren't there. One NCAA tournament in eight years. Eighth of ten Big East teams in attendance, no matter how you count it. A continual decline in licensing royalties as would be expected for a team that many recruits have no memory of its prior success. Maybe Seton Hall was patient with Willard because they spend nearly half as much as what GU does, or maybe it's that the SHU job wasn't that much in demand. Saturday's game with DePaul, easily the most dysfunctional program in major college basketball, is Ewing's 90th game as a coach. Here's how his record stacks up against his recent predecessors through 89 games: Craig Esherick: 55-34, 22-24 Big East, 1 NCAA bid, 2 NIT John Thompson III: 61-28, 28-17 Big East, 2 NCAA bids, 1 NIT Patrick Ewing: 49-40, 19-30 Big East, 0 NCAA, 1 NIT Patrick Ewing wasn't hired out of some sort of fear of John Thompson. He was hired to kick-start the program and align it to where it ought to have been at the 2013 realignment (read=where Villanova is now). Remember when Georgetown was a regular Top 20 entrant? When it was Top 10? When it was a #1 or #2 seed in the Big East tournament, and you already penciled in a Friday night doubleheader at the Garden and were checking air fares for the first and second rounds because you just knew they'd be there? Yes, that seems like long time ago. And it is. Every Big East team except DePaul and Georgetown has been ranked nationally in the last five years, and every one other than those two has earned an NCAA bid. Ewing still has the institutional support to do so. But saying he has five years or six years or even 10 years to get an NCAA bid misses the point. If Georgetown is spending like a Final Four contender with NIT results on a consistent basis, it's not a sustainable business model. One NCAA bid and a Tuesday game in Dayton doesn't mean it's mission accomplished. Either this team has to get much better across the board to justify the investment that it currently enjoys and start delivering on that investment, or you're asking to Georgetown to consider resetting the expectations that men's basketball can aspire to be good, but never great, going forward. Very interesting and eye opening. Please explain how it is that we are spending to this extreme. I honestly don't get it. |
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Post by aleutianhoya on Feb 21, 2020 11:24:33 GMT -5
And then what? Does a first round NCAA loss reset the clock for another five years? Ewing is not the problem here, it's bigger than that. The problem is that the highest levels of the University understand an inconvenient truth that many fans pay no attention to--the Georgetown basketball model is not sustainable at the present level of performance. In the most recent public reports, Georgetown had the ninth highest basketball budget of 351 schools, nearly $1M more than Kansas, $3M more than North Carolina, and nearly $5M more than Xavier. And while Georgetown keeps other men's sports on a strict diet to keep basketball's plate full, the results aren't there. One NCAA tournament in eight years. Eighth of ten Big East teams in attendance, no matter how you count it. A continual decline in licensing royalties as would be expected for a team that many recruits have no memory of its prior success. Maybe Seton Hall was patient with Willard because they spend nearly half as much as what GU does, or maybe it's that the SHU job wasn't that much in demand. Saturday's game with DePaul, easily the most dysfunctional program in major college basketball, is Ewing's 90th game as a coach. Here's how his record stacks up against his recent predecessors through 89 games: Craig Esherick: 55-34, 22-24 Big East, 1 NCAA bid, 2 NIT John Thompson III: 61-28, 28-17 Big East, 2 NCAA bids, 1 NIT Patrick Ewing: 49-40, 19-30 Big East, 0 NCAA, 1 NIT Patrick Ewing wasn't hired out of some sort of fear of John Thompson. He was hired to kick-start the program and align it to where it ought to have been at the 2013 realignment (read=where Villanova is now). Remember when Georgetown was a regular Top 20 entrant? When it was Top 10? When it was a #1 or #2 seed in the Big East tournament, and you already penciled in a Friday night doubleheader at the Garden and were checking air fares for the first and second rounds because you just knew they'd be there? Yes, that seems like long time ago. And it is. Every Big East team except DePaul and Georgetown has been ranked nationally in the last five years, and every one other than those two has earned an NCAA bid. Ewing still has the institutional support to do so. But saying he has five years or six years or even 10 years to get an NCAA bid misses the point. If Georgetown is spending like a Final Four contender with NIT results on a consistent basis, it's not a sustainable business model. One NCAA bid and a Tuesday game in Dayton doesn't mean it's mission accomplished. Either this team has to get much better across the board to justify the investment that it currently enjoys and start delivering on that investment, or you're asking to Georgetown to consider resetting the expectations that men's basketball can aspire to be good, but never great, going forward. Very interesting and eye opening. Please explain how it is that we are spending to this extreme. I honestly don't get it. There's several different sources for this sort of information, all of them problematic in one way or another. The US Dep't of Education keeps expense and revenue information by sport for every school for Title IX purposes. Georgetown's overall budget for basketball for 2017 (most recent year) is listed as $12.8M. Among conference schools, Villanova is highest at $14.8M. Marquette is at $12.1M; Provy is at $10.8M. Everyone else is between $5M and $8M. You can go on their website and get reporting. There's some correlation in the numbers between schools that play all their games at large arenas that they have to rent. Not perfect, but some. I'm guessing that explains a large chunk of it. Presumably, all of our expenses are somewhat inflated over, say, Creighton's due to the location of the school and the added metro-related expenses. DFW surely knows much more about all this than I do, but the other factor between us and, say, Kansas or North Carolina (aside from renting an arena) likely is the expense associated with scholarships, which presumably is much higher at Georgetown than at any state school. I'm not sure of how the accounting works on that. Our revenues for basketball are conveniently exactly the same as our expenses. You can do that because it's easy to count certain things as expenses or revenue for a sport or more generally. (Do you count a football jersey sold as revenue for football? What about a "Georgetown Athletics" shirt? And so on.) A lot of schools presumably manipulate the numbers so that they're not "taking advantage of students" by making a huge profit on the sport and at the same time not "wasting tons of money" by taking a large loss on the sport. (There are schools that don't seem to do that, though....) |
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Feb 21, 2020 11:38:40 GMT -5
Besides nova who else doesn’t have holes next year in conference Creighton. They lose almost nothing and are REALLY good this year. Plus, Epperson should be healed so they actually gain a big man. Creighton is my early pick to win the conference. You really think Creighton isn't losing anyone? Tyshon is gone and Z may be to if they have a decent run... |
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Post by augustusfinknottle on Feb 21, 2020 11:45:18 GMT -5
Villanova' expenditures are high especially when you consider they only play four off campus home games per year.
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dchoya72
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Post by dchoya72 on Feb 21, 2020 11:48:08 GMT -5
Very interesting and eye opening. Please explain how it is that we are spending to this extreme. I honestly don't get it. There's several different sources for this sort of information, all of them problematic in one way or another. The US Dep't of Education keeps expense and revenue information by sport for every school for Title IX purposes. Georgetown's overall budget for basketball for 2017 (most recent year) is listed as $12.8M. Among conference schools, Villanova is highest at $14.8M. Marquette is at $12.1M; Provy is at $10.8M. Everyone else is between $5M and $8M. You can go on their website and get reporting. There's some correlation in the numbers between schools that play all their games at large arenas that they have to rent. Not perfect, but some. I'm guessing that explains a large chunk of it. Presumably, all of our expenses are somewhat inflated over, say, Creighton's due to the location of the school and the added metro-related expenses. DFW surely knows much more about all this than I do, but the other factor between us and, say, Kansas or North Carolina (aside from renting an arena) likely is the expense associated with scholarships, which presumably is much higher at Georgetown than at any state school. I'm not sure of how the accounting works on that. Our revenues for basketball are conveniently exactly the same as our expenses. You can do that because it's easy to count certain things as expenses or revenue for a sport or more generally. (Do you count a football jersey sold as revenue for football? What about a "Georgetown Athletics" shirt? And so on.) A lot of schools presumably manipulate the numbers so that they're not "taking advantage of students" by making a huge profit on the sport and at the same time not "wasting tons of money" by taking a large loss on the sport. (There are schools that don't seem to do that, though....) Interesting! How is whatever endorsement money from Nike/Jordan Brand accounted? It is certainly not revenue a and yet is probably very substantial I think the two previous teams inherited a better roster than Ewing. That boring predictable Princeton model of play did nothing for Gtown stature in basketball. Patrick has to rebuild the brand and he is on his way. Somethings happen that a coach can't control. |
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adm1hoya
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Post by adm1hoya on Feb 21, 2020 12:07:54 GMT -5
Wahab is another yr. away, imo. We need a Grad transfer C or PF. Qudus isn't ready to be a full time starter due to his foul trouble. Another yr. of backing up, and a breakout Junior season follows. I think Wahab is ready now. The impact he makes on the defensive end (without blocks) is massive compared the last few years (and Yurt). Foul trouble is a bit of concern but he should be the starter and have it written in stone next year. Timmy and Wilson can continue to develop as backups. The addition of any grad C will just stunt the development of those 3, IMO. I would focus our energy elsewhere. Wahabs' foul issues are a major concern for me. That would leave, TI with extended minutes off the bench next year, which would expose him because TI definitely won't be able to contribute valuable minutes until his Junior yr. at least. Wahab backing up an established Center for another yr. would be best for the team and would allow Wahab to progress without the added pressures of starting. |
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Feb 21, 2020 12:38:43 GMT -5
Creighton. They lose almost nothing and are REALLY good this year. Plus, Epperson should be healed so they actually gain a big man. Creighton is my early pick to win the conference. You really think Creighton isn't losing anyone? Tyshon is gone and Z may be to if they have a decent run... I could see Alexander testing the waters but I’d be surprised if he stays in, he's not on any boards that I've seen, not even espn’s top 100... Why leave to play in the G league or overseas? Same thought for Zegarowski... Even if one of them does leave leave, Davion Mintz will be available to take their place. Creighton will be ranked highly to start next season imo.. |
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Post by HometownHoya on Feb 21, 2020 12:45:41 GMT -5
I think Wahab is ready now. The impact he makes on the defensive end (without blocks) is massive compared the last few years (and Yurt). Foul trouble is a bit of concern but he should be the starter and have it written in stone next year. Timmy and Wilson can continue to develop as backups. The addition of any grad C will just stunt the development of those 3, IMO. I would focus our energy elsewhere. Wahabs' foul issues are a major concern for me. That would leave, TI with extended minutes off the bench next year, which would expose him because TI definitely won't be able to contribute valuable minutes until his Junior yr. at least. Wahab backing up an established Center for another yr. would be best for the team and would allow Wahab to progress without the added pressures of starting. What is the issue with Timmy providing 10-15 minutes next year? He can compete physically and an entire offseason will help him learn positioning in the offense and defense better. Keep in mind that outside of our 3 seniors, the rest of our roster are still developing. Per this entire thread, we are very lucky to have as many upperclassmen this year. There will be bumps next year without 3 4th/5th year starters but CBB in general is a young game. At this point Pat has recruited depth for all positions (except maybe another 4). From what I've seen, all that depth can play, the only question will be the role. Only PG will be a non-returning player and is the only position I would prefer a grad transfer. We have a long summer though, why don't we keep rooting for wins this year and save the doom and gloom of next year's team for then. |
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mdtd
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Post by mdtd on Feb 21, 2020 13:01:11 GMT -5
You really think Creighton isn't losing anyone? Tyshon is gone and Z may be to if they have a decent run... I could see Alexander testing the waters but I’d be surprised if he stays in, he's not on any boards that I've seen, not even espn’s top 100... Why leave to play in the G league or overseas? Same thought for Zegarowski... Even if one of them does leave leave, Davion Mintz will be available to take their place. Creighton will be ranked highly to start next season imo.. Agreed. Very unlikely they leave. Plus, Shareef Mitchell off the bench could turn into a very good player. Creighton will be loaded next season. |
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Post by hoyanewyorka on Feb 21, 2020 20:22:38 GMT -5
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wolveribe
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Post by wolveribe on Feb 22, 2020 0:37:33 GMT -5
I think Wahab is ready now. The impact he makes on the defensive end (without blocks) is massive compared the last few years (and Yurt). Foul trouble is a bit of concern but he should be the starter and have it written in stone next year. Timmy and Wilson can continue to develop as backups. The addition of any grad C will just stunt the development of those 3, IMO. I would focus our energy elsewhere. Wahabs' foul issues are a major concern for me. That would leave, TI with extended minutes off the bench next year, which would expose him because TI definitely won't be able to contribute valuable minutes until his Junior yr. at least. Wahab backing up an established Center for another yr. would be best for the team and would allow Wahab to progress without the added pressures of starting. I dont agree, but either way, I don't see the benefit of carrying 4 centers. I don't know how ready Wilson or Tim will be once next year starts. Its a long ways away. There is also the ability to play small. |
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IDenj
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Post by IDenj on Feb 22, 2020 6:52:11 GMT -5
No need for a C. If we’ve learned two things this season it’s that Pat can coach a team of 6-7 active players and that having 12 competent players can get in the way of each other.
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Post by hoyanewyorka on Feb 22, 2020 8:24:45 GMT -5
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Feb 22, 2020 10:37:56 GMT -5
this thread is veering into the "Program Approach from Coaching Ewing" thread on the main page but I'll throw my two cents in here. I think it is borderline unrealistic to expect the team to be better next year. Just casually throwing out that Kobe Clark can do the same thing sr. year Mosely is providing this team just highlights our over-excitement for freshmen based on highlight videos. And that is not a shot at Kobe or the rest of the class. Ewing is clearly gravitating to under-recruited / chip on their shoulder guys (either by choice, or maybe necessity) and I hope by the time they're upper classmen this program is back where we all want it to be. But we're losing 3 of a 7 man rotation. Asking Wahab to provide the same offensive anchor that Yurt7 does is a lot. Mosely and Allen are our two best perimeter defenders by far. And our defense is still 120th in the country. Neither Pickett nor Mac have shown to be an offensively efficient player against Big East competition. Freshmen are going to make freshmen mistakes. There will be turnovers and poor decisions...and then glimmers of hope for the future that get us excited. Hope they prove me wrong and i'll gladly admit it next March if we're dancing I absolutely love Allen and Mosely and they have given us everything they have this year. Their leadership and grit have helped push us through. In terms of their actual play........they've been....ok..... How else would we describe it? Im under the assumption that a grad PG will be on the way because I don't expect the reigns to be given to 2 freshman. As much as Yurt gives us at times, at times he's completely unplayable. I expect us to be better at the 5 spot next year (considering offense and defense) because it will be another year of growth from all 3 of the centers. Mac is Mac obviously but he's still just a sophomore and I think we've seen gradual improvement. Blair has been a revelation and if given the chance can score a ton of buckets next year. This team right now has no margin of error and if 1-2 guys aren't on, then its really difficult to overcome. Next year there will be more depth all around. I think people tend to dismiss that players will typically improve year to year and focus on what we are losing. Why do you assume a grad transfer is coming? It's not like Pat didn't just put the O in the hands of 2 frosh guards last year....last year we had a Jr and 2 Srs...next year we will have 1 Jr and 2 Srs....and I think the board is really sleeping on Dante...his speed with the ball will be something we haven't had since Chris or Kel..... |
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Feb 22, 2020 11:08:43 GMT -5
We could use a true PF. Missing Walker. ☹️
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Feb 22, 2020 11:15:10 GMT -5
You really think Creighton isn't losing anyone? Tyshon is gone and Z may be to if they have a decent run... I could see Alexander testing the waters but I’d be surprised if he stays in, he's not on any boards that I've seen, not even espn’s top 100... Why leave to play in the G league or overseas? Same thought for Zegarowski... Even if one of them does leave leave, Davion Mintz will be available to take their place. Creighton will be ranked highly to start next season imo.. Mintz is grad transferring at the end of the year. But I do believe Z will be back but if they continue playing like this(except GTown😁) I think Tyshon is gone... |
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TC
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Post by TC on Feb 22, 2020 12:02:59 GMT -5
Patrick Ewing wasn't hired out of some sort of fear of John Thompson. He was hired to kick-start the program and align it to where it ought to have been at the 2013 realignment (read=where Villanova is now). Remember when Georgetown was a regular Top 20 entrant? When it was Top 10? When it was a #1 or #2 seed in the Big East tournament, and you already penciled in a Friday night doubleheader at the Garden and were checking air fares for the first and second rounds because you just knew they'd be there? Yes, that seems like long time ago. And it is. Every Big East team except DePaul and Georgetown has been ranked nationally in the last five years, and every one other than those two has earned an NCAA bid. What time period are you specifically referring to, because if the problem is that this program is continually stuck in the 1980's, the answer is not to continually force a 1980's yardstick or 1980's aspirations on it. The 1980's are gone and we need to be comparing ourselves to what similar schools to us have done in the last 10-15 years, not trying to evoke boomer nostalgia. |
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Feb 22, 2020 12:39:06 GMT -5
It’s all about nostalgia. Keep it in the family and keep feeding the center. I cringe now when they show clips of the glory days. The juxtaposition of where we were and where we are. One day the program will have to hit the refresh button.
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