vv83
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,333
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Post by vv83 on Mar 12, 2017 11:34:23 GMT -5
It would seem that a primary reason Waters was coming to Georgetown was the combination of strong academics and strong basketball. No school represents that combo any better than Duke. Since the "strong basketball" part of Georgetown is down the tubes, it should not be any surprise that he would decommit if Duke is a serious option. They need a PG and will undoubtedly have plenty of talent next year, no matter who might leave early. I'll actually be surprised if he ends up anywhere other than Duke.
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Post by Problem of Dog on Mar 12, 2017 11:41:34 GMT -5
I have to believe this means there's a possibility that JTIII is gone this offseason. If he's not leaving this offseason, then we shouldn't grant the release. There hasn't been a coaching change, just a bad season. You can't let kids get releases after they've signed just because they've changed their mind. If he was uncertain, there's a spring signing period for a reason. If he was REALLY uncertain, he's highly recruited enough that he could've foregone an NLI and just signed scholarship papers the day he showed up to school. You don't release him and we might as well just lock the doors for good. He changed his mind, it happens. Coaches - under contract mind you - recruit kids, garner their commitments and then leave for other schools around this time every year and no one bats an eye. Hell, if JTIII leaves/gets fired, we're gonna more than likely go after a coach under contract and if we get him, give zero f***s about the kids he recruited to his former school but for some reason, Waters should be held hostage by us over his signature? Man, please. We should release kids if there's a coaching change. If there isn't, and nothing major has changed, kids shouldn't be released from their NLIs. They don't have to come to Georgetown, they just have to sit out a year. Tough break for them, but otherwise there's no point of a signing period at all. Big time recruits just shouldn't sign NLIs. Sign scholarship papers the day you show up. No one is going to turn you away.
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,593
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Post by This Just In on Mar 12, 2017 11:53:57 GMT -5
I am definitely in the 7 stages of grief. I literally can't think of 1 thing to be positive about going into next season........It is taking everything I have not to type insulting things about Tremont. I can't be believe that we are in this position where our hopes are pinned on one recruit saving the day. Man if he goes to Duke Im through with college BBall until my son is playing.......and that is 4 years........ If anything it shows that a program should never allow itself to get into a situation where all of its eggs are in 1 basket/are on 1 recruit Programs need to always be recruiting as even top recruits get injured, don't pan out or have various other issues. Gotta keep developing players to fill the gaps...the program has 3 PG's and no one has faith in them, what does that say about the program?
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swhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,137
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Post by swhoya on Mar 12, 2017 12:26:03 GMT -5
You don't release him and we might as well just lock the doors for good. He changed his mind, it happens. Coaches - under contract mind you - recruit kids, garner their commitments and then leave for other schools around this time every year and no one bats an eye. Hell, if JTIII leaves/gets fired, we're gonna more than likely go after a coach under contract and if we get him, give zero f***s about the kids he recruited to his former school but for some reason, Waters should be held hostage by us over his signature? Man, please. We should release kids if there's a coaching change. If there isn't, and nothing major has changed, kids shouldn't be released from their NLIs. They don't have to come to Georgetown, they just have to sit out a year. Tough break for them, but otherwise there's no point of a signing period at all. Big time recruits just shouldn't sign NLIs. Sign scholarship papers the day you show up. No one is going to turn you away. You guys are nuts. You're so caught up in your sanctimonious principles you don't think about the practical implications. They don't sign until the day they arrive? So then no school ever knows who is arriving, have any indication of how many people they need to recruit, and so on? Everyone would be trying to snipe everyone else's recruits until the last possible minute? He signed. Would it be nice if he stayed? Sure. It's depressing as hell that he's not coming. But I was waitlisted at Georgetown at committed to a different school, and then when I got in to Georgetown, then I dropped the other school. It happens, but no one else has anonymous posters questioning their character when an 18 year old realizes that maybe Georgetown isn't the place for him. But your idea is just nuts.
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Post by Problem of Dog on Mar 12, 2017 12:46:56 GMT -5
We should release kids if there's a coaching change. If there isn't, and nothing major has changed, kids shouldn't be released from their NLIs. They don't have to come to Georgetown, they just have to sit out a year. Tough break for them, but otherwise there's no point of a signing period at all. Big time recruits just shouldn't sign NLIs. Sign scholarship papers the day you show up. No one is going to turn you away. You guys are nuts. You're so caught up in your sanctimonious principles you don't think about the practical implications. They don't sign until the day they arrive? So then no school ever knows who is arriving, have any indication of how many people they need to recruit, and so on? Everyone would be trying to snipe everyone else's recruits until the last possible minute? He signed. Would it be nice if he stayed? Sure. It's depressing as hell that he's not coming. But I was waitlisted at Georgetown at committed to a different school, and then when I got in to Georgetown, then I dropped the other school. It happens, but no one else has anonymous posters questioning their character when an 18 year old realizes that maybe Georgetown isn't the place for him. But your idea is just nuts. If a kid doesn't want to sign an NLI, that's the only other option. It's really only an option for elite kids who schools would wait for like that. But while we have signing periods, kids shouldn't be released from their NLI's absent a coaching change or other major, unforeseeable issue. A school isn't going to drop a kid who signed an NLI because they had a below average season. This isn't a character thing at all.
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dreamhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,259
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Post by dreamhoya on Mar 12, 2017 12:54:46 GMT -5
I think Waters' decision was hasty. But it's his decision and I wish him luck!
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Post by practice on Mar 12, 2017 12:56:09 GMT -5
You guys are nuts. You're so caught up in your sanctimonious principles you don't think about the practical implications. They don't sign until the day they arrive? So then no school ever knows who is arriving, have any indication of how many people they need to recruit, and so on? Everyone would be trying to snipe everyone else's recruits until the last possible minute? He signed. Would it be nice if he stayed? Sure. It's depressing as hell that he's not coming. But I was waitlisted at Georgetown at committed to a different school, and then when I got in to Georgetown, then I dropped the other school. It happens, but no one else has anonymous posters questioning their character when an 18 year old realizes that maybe Georgetown isn't the place for him. But your idea is just nuts. If a kid doesn't want to sign an NLI, that's the only other option. It's really only an option for elite kids who schools would wait for like that. But while we have signing periods, kids shouldn't be released from their NLI's absent a coaching change or other major, unforeseeable issue. A school isn't going to drop a kid who signed an NLI because they had a below average season. This isn't a character thing at all. I'd argue that Tremont was the victim of false advertising ... perhaps fraud. Let's look back to what JT3 was selling in before the season started: The Hoya, November 11 2016: “ Our athleticism has increased a lot. Our practices are a lot more competitive, which has been great relative to last year,” Thompson said. “They’re vocal. They have quickly established a presence within our team, in the locker room, away from the court, which is good. It’s been very, very good.” The Scout, September 7, 2016: "If we get stops and rebounds we're going to run. But, yeah, we're going to go, get after people a little more all over the court," Thompson told Scout.com. The Ringer, November 15, 2016: “We just stop and from top to bottom look at everything, how you do things, how you approach things, how you should change things, how you should alter things,” said Thompson. “You’ve heard me use the phrase ‘How are we going to skin the proverbial cat?’ We [had] to make some changes on how things were done.” “ We want to run,” Thompson said, “but we have to get stops and we have to rebound the ball.” JT3, as much as anyone else, set himself up for failure this season. He had two of his star recruits transfer, he didn't recruit any ball handlers, and the team once again fouled with abandon, turned the ball over, and "ran" a dysfunctional offense. 2015-2016 was supposed to be some sort of blip. Turns out it wasn't. On top of that, the mainstream media -- not just us posters -- has turned its attention to this once proud program and a coaching situation that appears to be propped up by nepotism and a blind loyalty to golden days that lost their shine by the late 1980s. This was a great get by JT3 and his staff, but commitments go two ways. Tremont did his part ... had a great season and really opened some eyes. Georgetown flailed and practically invited this turn of events.
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 19,161
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Post by SSHoya on Mar 12, 2017 13:05:02 GMT -5
I think Waters' decision was hasty. But it's his decision and I wish him luck! Hasty or not if we get a new coach Waters can re-commit if the new coach can persuade him it is in his interest to do so. Hard to see that happening, however. Like JTIII kept Jeff Green after Esh's departure. Or Hibbert for that matter but Hibbert wasn't a sought after commodity coming out of GU Prep.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,529
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Post by prhoya on Mar 12, 2017 13:08:21 GMT -5
If a kid doesn't want to sign an NLI, that's the only other option. It's really only an option for elite kids who schools would wait for like that. But while we have signing periods, kids shouldn't be released from their NLI's absent a coaching change or other major, unforeseeable issue. A school isn't going to drop a kid who signed an NLI because they had a below average season. This isn't a character thing at all. I'd argue that Tremont was the victim of false advertising ... perhaps fraud. Let's look back to what JT3 was selling in before the season started: The Hoya, November 11 2016: “ Our athleticism has increased a lot. Our practices are a lot more competitive, which has been great relative to last year,” Thompson said. “They’re vocal. They have quickly established a presence within our team, in the locker room, away from the court, which is good. It’s been very, very good.” The Scout, September 7, 2016: "If we get stops and rebounds we're going to run. But, yeah, we're going to go, get after people a little more all over the court," Thompson told Scout.com. The Ringer, November 15, 2016: “We just stop and from top to bottom look at everything, how you do things, how you approach things, how you should change things, how you should alter things,” said Thompson. “You’ve heard me use the phrase ‘How are we going to skin the proverbial cat?’ We [had] to make some changes on how things were done.” “ We want to run,” Thompson said, “but we have to get stops and we have to rebound the ball.” JT3, as much as anyone else, set himself up for failure this season. He had two of his star recruits transfer, he didn't recruit any ball handlers, and the team once again fouled with abandon, turned the ball over, and "ran" a dysfunctional offense. 2015-2016 was supposed to be some sort of blip. Turns out it wasn't. On top of that, the mainstream media -- not just us posters -- has turned its attention to this once proud program and a coaching situation that appears to be propped up by nepotism and a blind loyalty to golden days that lost their shine by the late 1980s. This was a great get by JT3 and his staff, but commitments go two ways. Tremont did his part ... had a great season and really opened some eyes. Georgetown flailed and practically invited this turn of events. I believed him too. Remember that quote about Kaleb ? He's a great salesman or we want to be blind. Georgetown has gone from the butt of jokes when picking a high seed to lose to a double digit seed come NCAA bracket time to a story about nepotism, former player thugs and an administration scared of JT2. The program is hijacked.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,529
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Post by prhoya on Mar 12, 2017 13:12:17 GMT -5
I think Waters' decision was hasty. But it's his decision and I wish him luck! Hasty or not if we get a new coach Waters can re-commit if the new coach can persuade him it is in his interest to do so. Hard to see that happening, however. Like JTIII kept Jeff Green after Esh's departure. Or Hibbert for that matter but Hibbert wasn't a sought after commodity coming out of GU Prep. Also, Bowman wanted out and JT3 convinced him to come back. It could be that the same happens now. Also, a new coach could bring in players he signed at his other job, just like JT3 did with Wallace.
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,651
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Mar 12, 2017 13:15:11 GMT -5
Interested to see where Waters ends up, because someone may have gotten in his ear. Negative recruiting to turn a kid.
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,477
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Post by TC on Mar 12, 2017 13:36:04 GMT -5
Interested to see where Waters ends up, because someone may have gotten in his ear. Negative recruiting to turn a kid. Negative recruiting as in "Hey, you should check out what this site Casual Hoya has to say"?
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,529
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Post by prhoya on Mar 12, 2017 13:40:02 GMT -5
Interested to see where Waters ends up, because someone may have gotten in his ear. Negative recruiting to turn a kid. Negative recruiting as in "Hey, you should check out what this site Casual Hoya has to say"? Negative recruiting as in "Hey, did you catch the game yesterday? They lost by 26 points and looked poor doing it. If it wasn't for JT2, do you think JT3 would still be coach?" Followed by "Do you know that he makes $3M a year? Gucci!"
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,477
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Post by TC on Mar 12, 2017 13:41:11 GMT -5
So yes, basically read the arguments made on Casual and Hoyatalk.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Mar 12, 2017 13:41:14 GMT -5
DEVASTATED!!!
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Mar 12, 2017 13:41:27 GMT -5
DEVASTATED!!!
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 19,161
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Post by SSHoya on Mar 12, 2017 13:47:34 GMT -5
Interested to see where Waters ends up, because someone may have gotten in his ear. Negative recruiting to turn a kid. As the risk of sounding naive, if the "someone" doing the negative recruiting got into Waters's ear and is a representative of a competing basketball program, it would be an NCAA violation since Waters had already signed his NLI.
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IDenj
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,532
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Post by IDenj on Mar 12, 2017 13:57:02 GMT -5
I'd say this Hoya season was all the negative recruiting he needed to make a decision.
Wish him the best going forward.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,654
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Post by guru on Mar 12, 2017 14:00:50 GMT -5
Interested to see where Waters ends up, because someone may have gotten in his ear. Negative recruiting to turn a kid. Negative recruiting as in "Hey, you should check out what this site Casual Hoya has to say"? This is beyond comical. Seriously - pause and think about what you keep posting today. It is as illogical as it is insane. And it shows that people like you will do anything to avoid placing the blame for this mess on the coach who is causing it. Take a break. You're not going to win people over to your point no matter how long you stay on here and pounce in response to everyone who disagrees. Go out and have a conversation with a millennial. They really aren't so scary.
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,477
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Post by TC on Mar 12, 2017 14:03:58 GMT -5
Negative recruiting as in "Hey, you should check out what this site Casual Hoya has to say"? This is beyond comical. Seriously - pause and think about what you keep posting today. It is as illogical as it is insane. And it shows that people like you will do anything to avoid placing the blame for this mess on the coach who is causing it. Take a break. You're not going to win people over to your point no matter how long you stay on here and pounce in response to everyone who disagrees. Go out and have a conversation with a millennial. They really aren't so scary. Hey, how about today you take a look at what Casual Hoya's written this year and ask yourself whether a recruit would want to get themselves involved with the program they're describing? Especially one that committed under and liked JT3 - whether they would want to keep their commitment?
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