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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 12, 2017 0:51:47 GMT -5
My biggest problem is that as an SB Nation site, it carries some level of cachet as a news site. And it has been anything but that, particularly this season.
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Mar 12, 2017 0:55:05 GMT -5
Casual has done it's job in drawing interest to their site. Not sure how they are compensated but guessing having hits and activity has something to do with it. It's the same with any media outlet.
This site operates differently. Don't blame them. If we were to put a good product on the floor and win the narrative would change and be 100% behind this team. That's big time sports and stop being so sheltered.
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deacon
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Post by deacon on Mar 12, 2017 1:02:59 GMT -5
I have to believe this means there's a possibility that JTIII is gone this offseason. If he's not leaving this offseason, then we shouldn't grant the release. There hasn't been a coaching change, just a bad season. You can't let kids get releases after they've signed just because they've changed their mind. If he was uncertain, there's a spring signing period for a reason. If he was REALLY uncertain, he's highly recruited enough that he could've foregone an NLI and just signed scholarship papers the day he showed up to school. You don't release him and we might as well just lock the doors for good. He changed his mind, it happens. Coaches - under contract mind you - recruit kids, garner their commitments and then leave for other schools around this time every year and no one bats an eye. Hell, if JTIII leaves/gets fired, we're gonna more than likely go after a coach under contract and if we get him, give zero f***s about the kids he recruited to his former school but for some reason, Waters should be held hostage by us over his signature? Man, please.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 12, 2017 1:04:20 GMT -5
I promise that if we refused to let Waters out of the letter of intent, it would have brought media coverage far more negative about us than anything we've seen in the last couple of weeks. Refusing to let him out of the commitment simply isn't an option.
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Mar 12, 2017 1:28:09 GMT -5
Top-50 recruits don't want to play for teams that finish in 9th place out of 10 teams in their conference and don't play in the postseason. Top 50 recruits regularly commit to schools in last place, immediate playing time and showcase are huge drivers : Ethan Thompson : Oregon State (5-27) Daejon Davis : Washington (9-22) Jaylen Newell : Washington (9-22) Mitchell Robinson : Western Kentucky (15-17) Nick Weatherspoon : Miss State (16-16) Makai Ashton-Langford: UCONN (16-17) Kezie Opala : Stanford (14-17) Chuma Okeke : Auburn (18-14) When commits from uconn and Oregon state signed, they were not coming off losing seasons, both were in the tournament last year and uconn won the national championship only a few years ago. Not sure what romar has been selling at UW. But he is likely to be fired regardless. WKU, Miss st., auburn, Stanford---all new coaches. So your list basically demonstrates that in order to get top recruits you either need to have been successful the year before, or have a new coach. Or be Lorenzo romar. JT3 and the Hoyas are none of those. You know, unless...
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Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Mar 12, 2017 3:14:29 GMT -5
Again, Waters said: "Waters says, "After observing everything that's occurring lately and thoroughly thinking of this next decision... I want to respectfully remove myself from Georgetown University." Waters said "lately." Waters has been committed from November. It's been clear for quite some time that our team this season is not a very good one. Yes, we all held out hopes of a finish better than 5-13, but it was pretty obvious shortly after his commitment that we weren't all that good. And the way in which the team played hasn't significantly changed over the last several months. If this was our offense or style of play, Waters easily could have decommitted months ago. In my mind, there's no doubt that the swirling rumors about JT3 and the negative attention had to have been a factor, because otherwise you typically wouldn't decommit so late in the game. And yes, the national media covered it, and there's no denying that. But, I do firmly believe that the constant chatter and unrelenting negativity from the fan-base here and at Casual Hoya (which is far worse, in my opinion) doesn't help. Seriously, if you were an outside person with no affiliation with Georgetown, and you read HoyaTalk and CasualHoya over the last several months, would you want to stay at Georgetown? I mean, even in bad times, there's plenty of room for fans to stand behind their players, express hope for improvement, etc. And I actually do think those sentiments have been expressed here, even if they are absent from a site like Casual Hoya. People also complain about recruiting point guards, yet fans constantly rail against JT3's purported inability to develop players, especially guards. They'd also read constant posts talking about how horrible a coach he is, and how he cannot develop players, even though that's demonstrably false. For example, Casual's article on Waters specifically references the fact that JT3 hasn't developed guards, which is simply a blatantly mistruth (Chris Wright and Starks say hello). But, that would get in the way of their agenda, so of course they're going to spout nonsense like that. It's truly disheartening. 2003 I agree 1000% with everything you posted! I guarantee you every word was crafted with a purpose and put together in his Instagram posts. I also think that the changes JT3 had promised and completely pulled the plug on 3 weeks into the season play a part in this as well. I don't blame Waters for wanting to make a change one bit with everything thing on the court, online, social media, and in the national news. Outside of possibly who he marries this maybe the last real decision he has complete control of in his life. Also this wasn't completely out of left field as Tremont had been sending signs on his social media over the last 7-10 days. He changed his Georgetown Commit Avitar on his Instagram a little over a week ago and replaced it with the words "Do More" with an imoji of a person shrugging their shoulders and a basketball player dribbling emoji and also removed the "Georgetown Commit" on his Twitter. I was on the side of change Before tonight, but I also stated I could see reason for the administration to keep JT3 that go beyond this past seasons results. Really feel the administrations silence has been deafening. If the administration wanted to make a change there's nothing outside of financials holding them back now. Romar has a job at Washington primarily because he can recruit at high level. He's the absolute worst High Major Head Coach. Maybe the worst head coach in all D1 considering the talent he has had over the years and the results he's produced. How has he kept his job, because he recruits at such a high level. JT3 has high level recruits transferring out, isn't bringing in highly touted prospects consistently anymore and when he does get one he can't hold onto that player. Sometimes perceptions are reality!
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Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Mar 12, 2017 3:38:46 GMT -5
No, I am not blaming fans. I am placing some of the blame on the overzealous folks who are unrelentingly negative. As far as education, (1) I have never said Waters came here for education, and (2) he can get a plenty prestigious education elsewhere, like at Duke. Waters clearly liked what we had to offer. He liked the staff. He liked the university. This was in November. It's not like he committed two years ago. How you can possibly pretend like the recent vocal fan angst against JT3 and the "Fire Thompson" chants had nothing to do with it? But what caused the "fire JT3" chants? Losing to DePaul & St. John's, you can't act as if the losses didn't cause folks to lose it.. Btw, Waters got to watch many of these losses as well, do you think he enjoyed watching the way Gtown was losing? Actually the Fire JT3 chants started the 2nd and 3rd games of the year in the Maryland meltdown and the Arkansas State debacle. While they were horrible losses it was way to early in the season to be publicly shaming JT3 and that wasn't fair. From that point on every loss was just gasoline on the fire and made it a difficult situation for the players and staff to work in. Especially if the losses look to repetitive in style and feel. I think the reason he decommited is a combination of the online and social media junk, the lack of change that was ballyhooed by JT3 and the administrations silence played a part as well. I think JT3's unwillingness to stick with and try to improve upon a variety of changes is what has put the program in this predicament. If he had made substantial changes offensively and defensively, tinkered and modified them throughout and still had an up and down season that resulted in a similar record, the fanbase would be a little more apathetic as real change takes time. Could have sold that to the media, fanbase and Waters. I Think JT3 lost his credibility this year and a coach with no credibility doesn't have a chance.
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Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Mar 12, 2017 4:14:05 GMT -5
Top-50 recruits don't want to play for teams that finish in 9th place out of 10 teams in their conference and don't play in the postseason. The coach recruited the players, coached them, motivated them, developed them and designed the offensive/defensive schemes. He has to own his results. Markelle Fultz (Washington) Michael Porter Jr. (Washington), Trae Young (Oklahoma), Mitchell Robinson (Western Kentucky), Matt Coleman (Texas) Nick Weatherspoon (Mississippi St.), Makai Ashton-Langford (UCONN), Kezie Okpala (Stanford), Ethan Thompson (Oregon State), Chuma Okeke (Auburn) Jordan Goodwinn (Saint Louis) All these prospects say hello. All Top 50ish commits to bottom of the conference teams that are no where near making the Tournament this year. Hoyas had a better record and played a tougher schedule than more then a few of these schools. Some of these schools haven't made the tournament in a few years. I could have kept adding to this list but I think you get the point. I do agree that JT3 has to own the results just as any coach but the statement about recruits not wanting to play for struggling programs just isn't true. NOTE: Didn't see TC similar post to mine until after I completed this one. Wasn't trying to pile on or be repetitive..
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AltoSaxa
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Post by AltoSaxa on Mar 12, 2017 6:48:12 GMT -5
You should read SDHoya's cogent response
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757hoyafan
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Post by 757hoyafan on Mar 12, 2017 7:13:27 GMT -5
I wonder if we can get the other kid back now. I don't remember his name, but I think he's committed to UGA.. The local kid
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Mar 12, 2017 7:32:13 GMT -5
"everyone will have an opinion" - says a lot. My opinion says a) very immature move and b) the current "fan" base doesn't deserve him
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Mar 12, 2017 7:43:24 GMT -5
If he does not want to go to GU, we do not want or need him.
DTM
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dreamhoya
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Post by dreamhoya on Mar 12, 2017 8:41:08 GMT -5
Yeah, technically the "Fire JTIII" chants may have started as early as the second game but when did they "start?" February, maybe.
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dreamhoya
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Post by dreamhoya on Mar 12, 2017 8:42:40 GMT -5
My biggest problem is that as an SB Nation site, it carries some level of cachet as a news site. And it has been anything but that, particularly this season. Not sure the point is that this is the only negative site about a team.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Mar 12, 2017 9:12:36 GMT -5
For those upthread insinuating that Georgetown made no announcement and had nothing to say publicly about this recruit...
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Mar 12, 2017 9:14:14 GMT -5
Hoyas are in between a rock and a hard place. People are calling out for change at the top but risk losing Waters in the process. Sadly this turned out to be true.
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Post by hoya2x2010 on Mar 12, 2017 9:34:29 GMT -5
If he does not want to go to GU, we do not want or need him. DTM Don't think this is fair. He absolutely wants to go to gtown! But he wants to go to functional gtown, not this sad state of affairs...
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Mar 12, 2017 9:37:52 GMT -5
Top-50 recruits don't want to play for teams that finish in 9th place out of 10 teams in their conference and don't play in the postseason. The coach recruited the players, coached them, motivated them, developed them and designed the offensive/defensive schemes. He has to own his results. Markelle Fultz (Washington) Michael Porter Jr. (Washington), Trae Young (Oklahoma), Mitchell Robinson (Western Kentucky), Matt Coleman (Texas) Nick Weatherspoon (Mississippi St.), Makai Ashton-Langford (UCONN), Kezie Okpala (Stanford), Ethan Thompson (Oregon State), Chuma Okeke (Auburn) Jordan Goodwinn (Saint Louis) All these prospects say hello. All Top 50ish commits to bottom of the conference teams that are no where near making the Tournament this year. Hoyas had a better record and played a tougher schedule than more then a few of these schools. Some of these schools haven't made the tournament in a few years. I could have kept adding to this list but I think you get the point. I do agree that JT3 has to own the results just as any coach but the statement about recruits not wanting to play for struggling programs just isn't true. NOTE: Didn't see TC similar post to mine until after I completed this one. Wasn't trying to pile on or be repetitive.. This does not apply to all the above. However, selling recruits on a new vision for a program is much easier than what III is trying to do, which is promise a change midstream or promise an improvement to a system that has not been successful in 4 years. A new coach has the luxury of selling an idea and can say he does not have "his" guys in place. Once he does, the new coach will tell the recruit how great everything will be, and if he is a good salesman or has a prior track record, the recruit may buy-in. I am not sure what III can be selling right now besides playing time, a good education and the shiny practice facility. No recruit is buying the "winning national championships" line anymore. Obviously, III did not keep to his plan to change the offense and the system he reverted back to showed bad results once again. No matter what Waters said in public, I am sure the uptempo style III was touting was a big selling point. The fact III ended up keeping things the same with the same results could not have been encouraging to Waters. III had his chance to finally get a point guard again, he blew it by being stubborn.
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Mar 12, 2017 9:48:01 GMT -5
My biggest problem is that as an SB Nation site, it carries some level of cachet as a news site. And it has been anything but that, particularly this season. I agree in the sense the Casual is associated with SB Nation, which means it is more public and should be more news-oriented. It is decidedly not and Casual (who runs the site) is more anti-III than many of us here. However, the schools TC chose are a bit misleading. RU just replaced their coach last year and saw marked improvement this season. SJU is in the same boat, they are on an upswing and young talent is there. Not sure why either school would be upset? Depaul is in the first (or second?) year of a new, but old coach. The fact I am not sure just shows they are irrelevant and the fan base is likely apathetic at this point. Indiana I am surprised would not be more negative, they have a few fire Tom Crean websites, so I would have expected more turmoil over there, but maybe, to your point, the administrators of the site are a little more diligent about keeping it somewhat clean.
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Mar 12, 2017 11:03:59 GMT -5
I am definitely in the 7 stages of grief. I literally can't think of 1 thing to be positive about going into next season........It is taking everything I have not to type insulting things about Tremont. I can't be believe that we are in this position where our hopes are pinned on one recruit saving the day. Man if he goes to Duke Im through with college BBall until my son is playing.......and that is 4 years........
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