tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,681
|
Post by tashoya on Mar 18, 2016 23:24:13 GMT -5
You're just wrong, give it a rest man. Chris Wright is a professional basketball player and a PG. just cause he can also score doesn't make him any less of a PG, as his career stats/play would indicate. McDs PG, a one-man press break (even against Pitinos best defensive teams), highest assist total under III to that point, and was the best PG in the NBDL...what more do u need to hear for you to admit you just have no idea what you're talking about. Wright was a dribble penetrate and score or kick point guard. People complained at the time that he wasn't running the Princeton but playing more like a traditional dribble penetration point. In fact eventually we just accommodates him and went away from Princeton offense to Princeton principles with him being the point guard with the ball in his hands most of the time. Then the negative people started complaining that he was dribbling too much and dribble penetrating too much like a typical point guard. Under the current rules Wright would have dominated because nobody could stop his dribble penetrating without letting him score or fouling him. This is clearly wrong because JT3 never adjusts and we play a strict Princeton. On second thought... |
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Mar 18, 2016 23:25:07 GMT -5
When was the last time a half court heave won a tournament game? It must have happened, but I don't remember it. Wow. Think I woke the neighbors with that one. It was tied though so I think there's always a little less pressure on the shooter because in the back of his head he knows it's going to overtime. |
|
MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,604
|
Post by MCIGuy on Mar 18, 2016 23:29:37 GMT -5
Wallace, Starks, and Wright were undersized combo guards forced to learn point skills. Wallace needed Sapp to bring the ball up through his senior year and was always just an undersized lights out shooting guard. Starks was 49 Assists / 42 turnovers as a sophomore because he was an incompetent passer, Clark was the closest thing to a true point Starks sophomore year. Wright learned pretty quickly, he was an undersized combo but learned to be a scoring point by his sophomore year. Still had the occasional bull in a china shop move, though. But Wrights recruitment was a decade ago. Point guards are totally nonessential at the NBA level where you have forwards who can do all that stuff, but those guys (e.g. Otto and much better) don't stay in college long. So it helps to grab a good point guard, which our offense really hurts in recruiting. 1)I think Starks was more of a true pg going into GU. His low assist numbers as a soph was more of a result of adjusting to a system that did not rely on point guard play. 2)I think point guards remain very essential in the NBA unless you have the rare LeBron types who are better with the ball. It is the NBA big man, the center, who has somewhat become nonessential. |
|
MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,604
|
Post by MCIGuy on Mar 18, 2016 23:31:17 GMT -5
When was the last time a half court heave won a tournament game? It must have happened, but I don't remember it. Wow. Think I woke the neighbors with that one. Can't say I blame you. Great first two days of play. |
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Mar 18, 2016 23:31:53 GMT -5
Wallace, Starks, and Wright were undersized combo guards forced to learn point skills. Wallace needed Sapp to bring the ball up through his senior year and was always just an undersized lights out shooting guard. Starks was 49 Assists / 42 turnovers as a sophomore because he was an incompetent passer, Clark was the closest thing to a true point Starks sophomore year. Wright learned pretty quickly, he was an undersized combo but learned to be a scoring point by his sophomore year. Still had the occasional bull in a china shop move, though. But Wrights recruitment was a decade ago. Point guards are totally nonessential at the NBA level where you have forwards who can do all that stuff, but those guys (e.g. Otto and much better) don't stay in college long. So it helps to grab a good point guard, which our offense really hurts in recruiting. 1)I think Starks was more of a true pg going into GU. His low assist numbers as a soph was more of a result of adjusting to a system that did not rely on point guard play. 2)I think point guards remain very essential in the NBA unless you have the rare LeBron types who are better with the ball. It is the NBA big man, the center, who has somewhat become nonessential. Lebron is basically a point guard. |
|
EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 15,396
|
Post by EtomicB on Mar 18, 2016 23:32:49 GMT -5
Northern Iowa beat Texas with a last minute half court shot. So, the beloved Shaka Smart goes down in the first round...losing to a double digit seed. I'll be honest this doesn't make me feel even the slightest bit better about G'town's early exits.. |
|
rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
|
Post by rockhoya on Mar 19, 2016 0:38:27 GMT -5
Wallace, Starks, and Wright were undersized combo guards forced to learn point skills. Wallace needed Sapp to bring the ball up through his senior year and was always just an undersized lights out shooting guard. Starks was 49 Assists / 42 turnovers as a sophomore because he was an incompetent passer, Clark was the closest thing to a true point Starks sophomore year. Wright learned pretty quickly, he was an undersized combo but learned to be a scoring point by his sophomore year. Still had the occasional bull in a china shop move, though. But Wrights recruitment was a decade ago. Point guards are totally nonessential at the NBA level where you have forwards who can do all that stuff, but those guys (e.g. Otto and much better) don't stay in college long. So it helps to grab a good point guard, which our offense really hurts in recruiting. 1)I think Starks was more of a true pg going into GU. His low assist numbers as a soph was more of a result of adjusting to a system that did not rely on point guard play. 2)I think point guards remain very essential in the NBA unless you have the rare LeBron types who are better with the ball. It is the NBA big man, the center, who has somewhat become nonessential. I admire that you still have it in you to point out the obvious. PGs nonessential during the golden age of PGs? Where 7 of the top 10 or so currently in the MVP race are points (some of whom had questions regarding their true position coming out of college/hs)? Okay man makes sense... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2016 1:48:25 GMT -5
Boy, Anthony Collins doesn't seem like he would've helped the team this year. IDK he doesn't score but neither did our starting PG. He does does strap up though, averages 5 assists a game and he had 48 Turnovers on the season total... Also 88% from the line |
|
dreamhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,259
|
Post by dreamhoya on Mar 19, 2016 3:11:05 GMT -5
Boy, Anthony Collins doesn't seem like he would've helped the team this year. IDK he doesn't score but neither did our starting PG. He does does strap up though, averages 5 assists a game and he had 48 Turnovers on the season total... Also 88% from the line i feel you on that... |
|
DanMcQ
Moderator 
Posts: 32,842
|
Post by DanMcQ on Mar 19, 2016 8:11:55 GMT -5
Northern Iowa beat Texas with a last minute half court shot. So, the beloved Shaka Smart goes down in the first round...losing to a double digit seed. Another HOT SEAT. Must be awful coaching. |
|
hoyajinx
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,683 
Member is Online
|
Post by hoyajinx on Mar 19, 2016 8:12:51 GMT -5
I'm annoyed that Cuse has an easier path to the sweet 16. On the bright side though, if Cuse loses to MTSU, they will have the ignominious distinction of being the only school ever to lose to two 15 seeds. That would make me kind of happy.
|
|
DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 32,842
|
Post by DanMcQ on Mar 19, 2016 8:16:36 GMT -5
MOD NOTE: I would go back and extract all the scintillating 'which former Hoya PG was really not a PG vs. Yeah he was!' Debate that is polluting this NCAA Tournament thread into a separate thread but I'm not going to waste an entire beautiful Saturday afternoon on it so you'll have to live with it as is.
|
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Mar 19, 2016 8:18:17 GMT -5
I'm annoyed that Cuse has an easier path to the sweet 16. On the bright side though, if Cuse loses to MTSU, they will have the ignominious distinction of being the only school ever to lose to two 15 seeds. That would make me kind of happy. They actually are hurt the least by the new rules since all they play is their 2-3 zone and are expert at it while the physical man 2 man and pack the line teams have been forced to change to 2-3 and 1-3-1. |
|
|
|
Post by aleutianhoya on Mar 19, 2016 8:38:29 GMT -5
Northern Iowa beat Texas with a last minute half court shot. So, the beloved Shaka Smart goes down in the first round...losing to a double digit seed. Another HOT SEAT. Must be awful coaching. Smart is a terrific coach. Everyone agrees, right? I know I do. And I know this is all provided in a tongue-in-cheek way. But I do think it's worth laying the facts out there: Year 1: Cinderella trip to Final Four Year 2: Earn 12 seed; upset victory in first round; loss in second. Year 3: Earn 5 seed; lose to 12 seed in first round. Year 4: Earn 7 seed; lose to 10 seed in first round. Year 5: Earn 6 seed; lose to 11 seed in first round. Three straight years with a loss to a double-digit seed in the first round. I'm not trying to compare him directly to JTIII; there are obviously differences (smaller sample size; Shaka's results are at two different schools and this is his first year at his new one; and the upsets aren't as bad as ours). But it's not a terribly small sample size. And the fact remains that he has been upset three consecutive years in the first round. And even in "year two," I think many folks here would deem that year an overall failure given the seed received. Is there a trend? If so, it's bad! Maybe he can't win with the better talent his Cinderella run earned him? As anyone who knows my posting knows, I don't agree with either of those conclusions. I think he's great. But if you're going to use NCAAT results as the basis for measurement, there are lots of ways to interpret results. |
|
This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,596
|
Post by This Just In on Mar 19, 2016 8:47:13 GMT -5
Another HOT SEAT. Must be awful coaching. Smart is a terrific coach. Everyone agrees, right? I know I do. And I know this is all provided in a tongue-in-cheek way. But I do think it's worth laying the facts out there: Year 1: Cinderella trip to Final Four Year 2: Earn 12 seed; upset victory in first round; loss in second.
Year 3: Earn 5 seed; lose to 12 seed in first round.
Year 4: Earn 7 seed; lose to 10 seed in first round.
Year 5: Earn 6 seed; lose to 11 seed in first round.Three straight years with a loss to a double-digit seed in the first round. I'm not trying to compare him directly to JTIII; there are obviously differences (smaller sample size; Shaka's results are at two different schools and this is his first year at his new one; and the upsets aren't as bad as ours). But it's not a terribly small sample size. And the fact remains that he has been upset three consecutive years in the first round. And even in "year two," I think many folks here would deem that year an overall failure given the seed received. Is there a trend? If so, it's bad! Maybe he can't win with the better talent his Cinderella run earned him? As anyone who knows my posting knows, I don't agree with either of those conclusions. I think he's great. But if you're going to use NCAAT results as the basis for measurement, there are lots of ways to interpret results. 2 to 3 more years of that type of result and Shaka Smart will be looking for a new job after Texas. |
|
hoyafan23
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 290
|
Post by hoyafan23 on Mar 19, 2016 9:05:12 GMT -5
Smart is a terrific coach. Everyone agrees, right? I know I do. And I know this is all provided in a tongue-in-cheek way. But I do think it's worth laying the facts out there: Year 1: Cinderella trip to Final Four Year 2: Earn 12 seed; upset victory in first round; loss in second.
Year 3: Earn 5 seed; lose to 12 seed in first round.
Year 4: Earn 7 seed; lose to 10 seed in first round.
Year 5: Earn 6 seed; lose to 11 seed in first round.Three straight years with a loss to a double-digit seed in the first round. I'm not trying to compare him directly to JTIII; there are obviously differences (smaller sample size; Shaka's results are at two different schools and this is his first year at his new one; and the upsets aren't as bad as ours). But it's not a terribly small sample size. And the fact remains that he has been upset three consecutive years in the first round. And even in "year two," I think many folks here would deem that year an overall failure given the seed received. Is there a trend? If so, it's bad! Maybe he can't win with the better talent his Cinderella run earned him? As anyone who knows my posting knows, I don't agree with either of those conclusions. I think he's great. But if you're going to use NCAAT results as the basis for measurement, there are lots of ways to interpret results. 2 to 3 more years of that type of result and Shaka Smart will be looking for a new job after Texas. Shaka did that at VCU... Virginia Commonwealth University!! That's what made it impressive. He did not have the big college name to recruit while looking for players that fit his system. At Texas, like Georgetown, he should have more opportunities to recruit players who fit his system AND who are in general more athletic and better overall. Give him 1/2 years of his recruiting classes and I am confident Texas will be a top 10 team and do well in the tournament. In my eyes Shaka is clearly a better coach than JTIII. |
|
|
|
Post by aleutianhoya on Mar 19, 2016 9:16:50 GMT -5
2 to 3 more years of that type of result and Shaka Smart will be looking for a new job after Texas. Shaka did that at VCU... Virginia Commonwealth University!! That's what made it impressive. He did not have the big college name to recruit while looking for players that fit his system. At Texas, like Georgetown, he should have more opportunities to recruit players who fit his system AND who are in general more athletic and better overall. Give him 1/2 years of his recruiting classes and I am confident Texas will be a top 10 team and do well in the tournament. In my eyes Shaka is clearly a better coach than JTIII. Basically, you're celebrating (rightly) the fact that he wildly exceeded any fair expectations in the past three regular seasons at VCU, and you're not allowing the fact that he lost single games to less-regarded teams in a single elimination tournament at the end of those seasons to overwhelm what he did in getting there. Hmmm. I think he's a great coach, too, as I said. And it's incredibly impressive to have four straight NCAA bids (two with high seeds) at VCU. And I do think it's quite likely he'll succeed at Texas, if given a fair opportunity. (I forgot to note above that nearly all of his NCAA losses have been very, very close defeats. Make of that what you will -- you could draw any number of conclusions (luck, a sign that he's a bad coach in crunch time, a sign that his losses aren't as "bad" as blow-out losses). |
|
DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 32,842
|
Post by DanMcQ on Mar 19, 2016 9:17:06 GMT -5
2 to 3 more years of that type of result and Shaka Smart will be looking for a new job after Texas. Shaka did that at VCU... Virginia Commonwealth University!! That's what made it impressive. He did not have the big college name to recruit while looking for players that fit his system. At Texas, like Georgetown, he should have more opportunities to recruit players who fit his system AND who are in general more athletic and better overall. Give him 1/2 years of his recruiting classes and I am confident Texas will be a top 10 team and do well in the tournament. In my eyes Shaka is clearly a better coach than JTIII. Excuses excuses excuses, small school, lower budget, poor facilities. A great coach should be able to overcome all that! To be clear, this is tongue-in-cheek and not directed at the poster I quoted, but simply to illustrate the point that often arguments made here stated with incontrovertible certainty spring from foundations of bias that don't always account for all the facts, only the ones that poster deems most relevant. |
|
EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 15,396
|
Post by EtomicB on Mar 19, 2016 9:28:04 GMT -5
Another HOT SEAT. Must be awful coaching. Smart is a terrific coach. Everyone agrees, right? I know I do. And I know this is all provided in a tongue-in-cheek way. But I do think it's worth laying the facts out there: Year 1: Cinderella trip to Final Four Year 2: Earn 12 seed; upset victory in first round; loss in second. Year 3: Earn 5 seed; lose to 12 seed in first round. Year 4: Earn 7 seed; lose to 10 seed in first round. Year 5: Earn 6 seed; lose to 11 seed in first round. Three straight years with a loss to a double-digit seed in the first round. I'm not trying to compare him directly to JTIII; there are obviously differences (smaller sample size; Shaka's results are at two different schools and this is his first year at his new one; and the upsets aren't as bad as ours). But it's not a terribly small sample size. And the fact remains that he has been upset three consecutive years in the first round. And even in "year two," I think many folks here would deem that year an overall failure given the seed received. Is there a trend? If so, it's bad! Maybe he can't win with the better talent his Cinderella run earned him? As anyone who knows my posting knows, I don't agree with either of those conclusions. I think he's great. But if you're going to use NCAAT results as the basis for measurement, there are lots of ways to interpret results. This is the key in my view.. VCU lost in ot to both Stephen F Austin and Ohio State in 1st round games and a half-court buzzer beater did him in this season.. No need for me to rehash the G'town losses we know them all too well but I'd guess closer losses would change some view points.. As TJI just pointed out if Smart continues to get bounced early, he'll get bounced too.. |
|
GUJook97
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,445
|
Post by GUJook97 on Mar 19, 2016 9:56:03 GMT -5
MOD NOTE: I would go back and extract all the scintillating 'which former Hoya PG was really not a PG vs. Yeah he was!' Debate that is polluting this NCAA Tournament thread into a separate thread but I'm not going to waste an entire beautiful Saturday afternoon on it so you'll have to live with it as is. Seriously, pretty much every game in the tournament involves a discussion of JTIII. Im actually impressed to see what people come up with...Well, maybe not impressed. |
|
