royski
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Post by royski on Mar 18, 2016 14:04:05 GMT -5
We were in on lead guards the past couple of years. Didn't get them. Again, that may be a failure of recruiting, but it's not a failure of philosophy. So, at some point, after you strike out and when you look at the options, you say to yourself that you expect in 15-16 that you'll have a sophomore Tre that will have gotten significant minutes his freshmen year ready to provide steady (if unspectacular) play for 20 MPG. And you have a senior in DSR that, while not a pure, penetrating PG, can certainly play the secondary minutes at that position. And you are bringing in a freshman in Johnson and have someone like LJ (or Paul) that can handle the ball-handling in a pinch. So, after you don't get your top targets, you ask yourself whether or not the folks out there are better options. In retrospect they would have been, but that's really because Tre was so bad. Not because DSR was your secondary option. Would we rather have gotten a decent PG as a freshman this year instead of Agau? I think definitely yes. But that's hindsight. I disagree with most of what you said and unfortunately I think its the philosophy that JT3 has. The we have other guys that "can" handle PG duties is a bad one. None of these guys can drive and dribble and none can stay in front of true PG. To bring this on topic every "upset" that happened yesterday the lower seeded team had the better PG. The PG is the #1 most important position in the game now and its not close. I am not talk a guy that can handle a press. I am talking about the guy that can penetrate, dish and play D. You have to over recruit PG not under recruit if but I don't think JT3 values it enough. I agree Tre is supposed to be that guy and so far he is a recruiting miss which happens, but your philosophy of taking Agau over another pure PG is baffling to me. You just cant put all your eggs of the most important position in a guy who was not an elite prospect. I think this team could have been slightly better if Agau wouldve played, but been significantly better if we had anyone that could drive and defend. I think our system makes it very difficult for us to recruit top level PGs. Think about it, if you're a top flight HS PG, don't you want to go to a program that will showcase your ability to drive and score and dish? Not one that focuses on passing out of the elbow from a forward or center in the half court? The last elite PG we recruited was Chris Wright many years ago, because he idolized Allen Iverson. I don't believe this program is in a place to recruit 5 star or even 4 star PGs with any kind of consistency. That's a huge problem. |
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 18, 2016 14:16:53 GMT -5
But that's not how JT3 views it, but you know that. He doesn't even recognize what a traditional PG is. Maybe, after 10 years of try, try again, Stubborn Thompson the Third is adjusting? Recruiting Lykes is busting several of JT3's recruiting checklist items. It's good to have job security at $3M so you can try to see if that square peg really, really does not fit in that round hole. PR is only the latest to say this, so I'm not picking on him, but can we all just stop this nonsense? We've REPEATEDLY had guards on our roster that can "make sure your team gets good shots on every possession," can "control the pace" and can "make shots." The Wallace/Sapp combo fit that bill. So did Chris Wright. So did Markel Starks. None was perfect in all areas; I'm not saying they were. But do people forget what happened when teams tried to press a Chris Wright-led team (before his injury)? What nonsense do you mean? I responded to boston's post and made reference to the fact that JT3, as he has stated various times, does not like the label PG and does not use a traditional PG role in his offensive "system." Paraphrasing him answering a reporter's question regarding X player as PG, "do you mean the guard who makes the first pass in the half-court?" Imagine recruiting a traditional PG to play how we've played in the past 10 years. What is the recruiting pitch you're making to that player to convince him to come over? "In our system, don't think of yourself as a PG"? Has it worked so far? How many do we have? It is used against us. |
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Post by aleutianhoya on Mar 18, 2016 14:20:36 GMT -5
You're right. I'm glad JT3 is finally getting away from his habit of trying to have non-traditional PG's run the team. How much longer do we have to suffer through the parade of players like Jon Wallace, Chris Wright and Markel Starks playing PG for Georgetown? I like those players and want more. The point is they are not PGs and JT3 does not play with a traditional PG. He has said so various times. But, that might be changing. Those posters who would like a more traditional PG playing a PG role can only hope. What the hell is Chris Wright if he isn't a PG? |
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Post by aleutianhoya on Mar 18, 2016 14:22:12 GMT -5
We were in on lead guards the past couple of years. Didn't get them. Again, that may be a failure of recruiting, but it's not a failure of philosophy. So, at some point, after you strike out and when you look at the options, you say to yourself that you expect in 15-16 that you'll have a sophomore Tre that will have gotten significant minutes his freshmen year ready to provide steady (if unspectacular) play for 20 MPG. And you have a senior in DSR that, while not a pure, penetrating PG, can certainly play the secondary minutes at that position. And you are bringing in a freshman in Johnson and have someone like LJ (or Paul) that can handle the ball-handling in a pinch. So, after you don't get your top targets, you ask yourself whether or not the folks out there are better options. In retrospect they would have been, but that's really because Tre was so bad. Not because DSR was your secondary option. Would we rather have gotten a decent PG as a freshman this year instead of Agau? I think definitely yes. But that's hindsight. I disagree with most of what you said and unfortunately I think its the philosophy that JT3 has. The we have other guys that "can" handle PG duties is a bad one. None of these guys can drive and dribble and none can stay in front of true PG. To bring this on topic every "upset" that happened yesterday the lower seeded team had the better PG. The PG is the #1 most important position in the game now and its not close. I am not talk a guy that can handle a press. I am talking about the guy that can penetrate, dish and play D. You have to over recruit PG not under recruit if but I don't think JT3 values it enough. I agree Tre is supposed to be that guy and so far he is a recruiting miss which happens, but your philosophy of taking Agau over another pure PG is baffling to me. You just cant put all your eggs of the most important position in a guy who was not an elite prospect. I think this team could have been slightly better if Agau wouldve played, but been significantly better if we had anyone that could drive and defend. It's not a question of taking Agau "over" another pure PG. It's a question of what PGs were available that we could have had. At some point, the available talent at that position is low enough that using a scholarship (for four years) doesn't outweigh your ability to improve at another position. That's all I'm saying. |
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Post by aleutianhoya on Mar 18, 2016 14:24:15 GMT -5
PR is only the latest to say this, so I'm not picking on him, but can we all just stop this nonsense? We've REPEATEDLY had guards on our roster that can "make sure your team gets good shots on every possession," can "control the pace" and can "make shots." The Wallace/Sapp combo fit that bill. So did Chris Wright. So did Markel Starks. None was perfect in all areas; I'm not saying they were. But do people forget what happened when teams tried to press a Chris Wright-led team (before his injury)? What nonsense do you mean? I responded to boston's post and made reference to the fact that JT3, as he has stated various times, does not like the label PG and does not use a traditional PG role in his offensive "system." Paraphrasing him answering a reporter's question regarding X player as PG, "do you mean the guard who makes the first pass in the half-court?" Specifically: "Recruiting Lykes is busting several of JT3's recruiting checklist items. It's good to have job security at $3M so you can try to see if that square peg really, really does not fit in that round hole." There are no busted recruiting checklist items because we HAVE consistently recruited penetrating point guards, and we have had traditional PGs on our roster. Chris Wright is the most prominent example. |
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 18, 2016 14:27:40 GMT -5
I like those players and want more. The point is they are not PGs and JT3 does not play with a traditional PG. He has said so various times. But, that might be changing. Those posters who would like a more traditional PG playing a PG role can only hope. What the hell is Chris Wright if he isn't a PG? IIRC, in hs he was a volume scorer. With Austin on the roster, he was moved to the "guard who brought the ball up the court and made the first pass". |
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 18, 2016 14:28:35 GMT -5
What nonsense do you mean? I responded to boston's post and made reference to the fact that JT3, as he has stated various times, does not like the label PG and does not use a traditional PG role in his offensive "system." Paraphrasing him answering a reporter's question regarding X player as PG, "do you mean the guard who makes the first pass in the half-court?" Specifically: "Recruiting Lykes is busting several of JT3's recruiting checklist items. It's good to have job security at $3M so you can try to see if that square peg really, really does not fit in that round hole." There are no busted recruiting checklist items because we HAVE consistently recruited penetrating point guards, and we have had traditional PGs on our roster. Chris Wright is the most prominent example. The "bull in a china shop" who could not pass once his mind was made up that he was going to penetrate and put the ball up?  |
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Mar 18, 2016 14:31:42 GMT -5
You're right. I'm glad JT3 is finally getting away from his habit of trying to have non-traditional PG's run the team. How much longer do we have to suffer through the parade of players like Jon Wallace, Chris Wright and Markel Starks playing PG for Georgetown? I like those players and want more. The point is they are not PGs and JT3 does not play with a traditional PG. He has said so various times. But, that might be changing. Those posters who would like a more traditional PG playing a PG role can only hope. If those three aren't traditional point guards, who the hell is? |
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bostonfan
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Post by bostonfan on Mar 18, 2016 14:39:16 GMT -5
If this years team had a player who was similar to Wallace, Wright or Starks we would likely still be playing and DSR would have had a much better year playing off the ball. I think they still try to recruit PG's but they have not had much success bring in good ones lately. I don't think you need 5 star recruits at that spot. I don't think Starks was a 5 star recruit, but he turned into a very solid PG who did the things a good team needs out of their PG.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 18, 2016 14:40:19 GMT -5
I like those players and want more. The point is they are not PGs and JT3 does not play with a traditional PG. He has said so various times. But, that might be changing. Those posters who would like a more traditional PG playing a PG role can only hope. If those three aren't traditional point guards, who the hell is? You will not find one under JT3 (up to now). But those were great players for JT3's "system" and would love to have them back. |
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royski
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Post by royski on Mar 18, 2016 14:41:25 GMT -5
Chris Wright was recruited 10 years ago, using him as the exemplar of this program's ability to consistently recruit high quality PGs is wearing very thin.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2016 14:43:19 GMT -5
If those three aren't traditional point guards, who the hell is? You will not find one under JT3 (up to now). But those were great players for JT3's "system" and would love to have them back. I don't agree. Has the program had a "real" PG in the last 40 years? If so, who? |
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Post by aleutianhoya on Mar 18, 2016 14:43:42 GMT -5
Specifically: "Recruiting Lykes is busting several of JT3's recruiting checklist items. It's good to have job security at $3M so you can try to see if that square peg really, really does not fit in that round hole." There are no busted recruiting checklist items because we HAVE consistently recruited penetrating point guards, and we have had traditional PGs on our roster. Chris Wright is the most prominent example. The "bull in a china shop" who could not pass once his mind was made up that he was going to penetrate and put the ball up? Well, he is in the top 15 all freaking time in Georgetown history in assists per game played. And I believe he is in the top 10 in assists to turnovers. Those are the sorts of things you look for in a point guard, no? Again, he wasn't perfect. He did make his mind up to shoot a bunch. But he WAS a pure point guard. And was recruited to be one. I'm not sure there can be any reasonable dispute on this point. I mean, do you really think JTIII sees a guy that can beat his man off the dribble, score with both hands, and pass and says "Nope. Can't help us at Georgetown" |
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Post by aleutianhoya on Mar 18, 2016 14:45:09 GMT -5
Chris Wright was recruited 10 years ago, using him as the exemplar of this program's ability to consistently recruit high quality PGs is wearing very thin. That's not the discussion. The discussion is about trying to get them. |
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Mar 18, 2016 14:45:39 GMT -5
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Mar 18, 2016 14:45:55 GMT -5
What the hell is Chris Wright if he isn't a PG? IIRC, in hs he was a volume scorer. With Austin on the roster, he was moved to the "guard who brought the ball up the court and made the first pass". You don't remember correctly |
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 18, 2016 14:46:05 GMT -5
If this years team had a player who was similar to Wallace, Wright or Starks we would likely still be playing and DSR would have had a much better year playing off the ball. I think they still try to recruit PG's but they have not had much success bring in good ones lately. I don't think you need 5 star recruits at that spot. I don't think Starks was a 5 star recruit, but he turned into a very solid PG who did the things a good team needs out of their PG. Those players also had cojones and leadership skills which we were missing this year! |
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 18, 2016 14:48:22 GMT -5
You will not find one under JT3 (up to now). But those were great players for JT3's "system" and would love to have them back. I don't agree. Has the program had a "real" PG in the last 40 years? If so, who? Yes, but we're sticking to the JT3 years since he is the coach and 'his "offensive system". |
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 18, 2016 14:49:14 GMT -5
IIRC, in hs he was a volume scorer. With Austin on the roster, he was moved to the "guard who brought the ball up the court and made the first pass". You don't remember correctly OK, rock. |
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Mar 18, 2016 14:49:42 GMT -5
Guys - there is a recruiting thread, a coaching thread and this, the NCAA thread. Can you PLEASE take all this stuff that I am trying to avoid, the coach bashing and amateur analytics crud, and put it where it belongs so that those of us who want no part of that can come here to read, you know, about NCAA games? Shouldn't be too much to ask since there can be no confusion - we are not in the NCAAs, so this thread should not be about our team, our coach, what a PG is or isn't etc. PLEASE!
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