|
Post by jamaicahoya on Dec 11, 2016 19:02:40 GMT -5
Dense, I'm with your observation. We shouldn't overlook we are playing a bunch of newcomers; that four of our opening games were against quality opponents; that our weaknesses are being exposed at the start of season rather than in the middle or at the end. I believe there is lots of room for growth. Coaching should be easier, in that it is easier to coach a player who knows his limitations, rather than one who is full of himself. I am still rather optimistic on the season.
|
|
|
Post by HometownHoya on Dec 12, 2016 9:36:00 GMT -5
Props to Coach for getting the guys in the gym and helping them grasp a new offense. The debate on why Isaac isn't playing will rage on but JT3 is definitely working to keep him involved even while he's on the bench. Also great job playing the hot hand at the PG spot.
|
|
Oh My!
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 938
|
Post by Oh My! on Dec 12, 2016 14:32:20 GMT -5
Isaac is still dealing with the injury sustained in Maui. He damn near fractured his orbital bone, and he has been practicing with a mask. Trust me, the coaches would love to have him out there (as would the fans), but the mask is likely annoying, and he's not comfortable playing without it yet.
|
|
McBricks
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
What Rocks.
Posts: 1,173
|
Post by McBricks on Dec 12, 2016 19:57:13 GMT -5
Isaac is still dealing with the injury sustained in Maui. He damn near fractured his orbital bone, and he has been practicing with a mask. Trust me, the coaches would love to have him out there (as would the fans), but the mask is likely annoying, and he's not comfortable playing without it yet. Or maybe he's not comfortable in a Georgetown uniform...
|
|
|
Post by practice on Dec 14, 2016 11:47:36 GMT -5
Let me just bump this one up ... there's been a great deal of discussion about JT3 in the Copeland transferring thread. Having a 5 star player get worse over the course of 2+ seasons is a strike against JT3 and the coaching staff. Every aspect of Ike's game looks worse than it did at the end of his Freshman year. A lot of this on Ike, but he's a young man with a lot of pressure on him and he's clearly lost his confidence (and probably love of the game). Something's gotten to him and it is in part the coaches' duty to get th players to grow positively not get worse. Copeland is clearly the highest caliber recruit to go through this ... so maybe it's an anomaly ... but the Paul White situation was similar but complicated by injury.
|
|
bigskyhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,100
|
Post by bigskyhoya on Dec 14, 2016 14:33:38 GMT -5
I agree with your point. It is not consistent to give credit to the Coach when a player improves but blame only the player when he doesn't.
|
|
zxhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,718
|
Post by zxhoya on Dec 14, 2016 22:15:03 GMT -5
Let me just bump this one up ... there's been a great deal of discussion about JT3 in the Copeland transferring thread. Having a 5 star player get worse over the course of 2+ seasons is a strike against JT3 and the coaching staff. Every aspect of Ike's game looks worse than it did at the end of his Freshman year. A lot of this on Ike, but he's a young man with a lot of pressure on him and he's clearly lost his confidence (and probably love of the game). Something's gotten to him and it is in part the coaches' duty to get th players to grow positively not get worse. Copeland is clearly the highest caliber recruit to go through this ... so maybe it's an anomaly ... but the Paul White situation was similar but complicated by injury. I agree that a coach has to take some of the blame for a players performance but as far as the regression of Ike, I don't know how much you can put on the coaching staff. Ike played starter minutes since his freshman season and performed well that year but has since regressed and that's with consistent starter minutes. LJ and Ike where on a similar curve, 2 highly rated freshmen who showed that they deserved to play a significant role on the team, but Ike hasn't progressed at a similar rate as LJ and in fact has shown some regression. How much can you put that on the coach when his counterpart flourished under very similar circumstances.
|
|
eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,471
|
Post by eagle54 on Dec 14, 2016 22:29:51 GMT -5
Let me just bump this one up ... there's been a great deal of discussion about JT3 in the Copeland transferring thread. Having a 5 star player get worse over the course of 2+ seasons is a strike against JT3 and the coaching staff. Every aspect of Ike's game looks worse than it did at the end of his Freshman year. A lot of this on Ike, but he's a young man with a lot of pressure on him and he's clearly lost his confidence (and probably love of the game). Something's gotten to him and it is in part the coaches' duty to get th players to grow positively not get worse. Copeland is clearly the highest caliber recruit to go through this ... so maybe it's an anomaly ... but the Paul White situation was similar but complicated by injury. I agree that a coach has to take some of the blame for a players performance but as far as the regression of Ike, I don't know how much you can put on the coaching staff. Ike played starter minutes since his freshman season and performed well that year but has since regressed and that's with consistent starter minutes. LJ and Ike where on a similar curve, 2 highly rated freshmen who showed that they deserved to play a significant role on the team, but Ike hasn't progressed at a similar rate as LJ and in fact has shown some regression. How much can you put that on the coach when his counterpart flourished under very similar circumstances. I do think you put that on Ike more than anyone. Only way that gets disproved is if he goes to another program with similar competition and can prove something different.
|
|
zxhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,718
|
Post by zxhoya on Dec 14, 2016 23:32:33 GMT -5
I agree that a coach has to take some of the blame for a players performance but as far as the regression of Ike, I don't know how much you can put on the coaching staff. Ike played starter minutes since his freshman season and performed well that year but has since regressed and that's with consistent starter minutes. LJ and Ike where on a similar curve, 2 highly rated freshmen who showed that they deserved to play a significant role on the team, but Ike hasn't progressed at a similar rate as LJ and in fact has shown some regression. How much can you put that on the coach when his counterpart flourished under very similar circumstances. I do think you put that on Ike more than anyone. Only way that gets disproved is if he goes to another program with similar competition and can prove something different. Well I personally hope this happens and maybe he needs to hear another voice and maybe transferring, he will have a renewed motivation and find his confidence he's missing. But ultimately it's up to him.
|
|
eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,471
|
Post by eagle54 on Dec 14, 2016 23:37:00 GMT -5
I do think you put that on Ike more than anyone. Only way that gets disproved is if he goes to another program with similar competition and can prove something different. Well I personally hope this happens and maybe he needs to hear another voice and maybe transferring, he will have a renewed motivation and find his confidence he's missing. But ultimately it's up to him. That's fair. I have no investment in Ike as I never thought he lived up to the hype as LJ did. However, I wish him well. I think he ends up at a lower level and can have success but if he can go to a major program and have success than it will be a reflection on the staff here.
|
|
|
Post by HometownHoya on Dec 15, 2016 0:01:46 GMT -5
So, what's everyone's opinions on Jerelle Benimon nowadays? Was JT3 limiting him? Did he learn skills while here that helped his career? Would he have been our mid-major killer?
|
|
eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,471
|
Post by eagle54 on Dec 15, 2016 0:16:43 GMT -5
So, what's everyone's opinions on Jerelle Benimon nowadays? Was JT3 limiting him? Did he learn skills while here that helped his career? Would he have been our mid-major killer? Little off base with that. He went on and showcased himself at a lower level and had a similar career to many of the recent players we tout. How is he different that Austin Freeman, PEJR, Trawick, DSR and that list could continue. D-League player trying to make the league but won't then go play overseas. I say good for him if he thought he got a better shot by being big fish in smaller pond with better coaching in college. Didn't end up any worse for that. If he'd stayed with Hoyas maybe he doesn't get that opportunity at least that was his perception. Not like if he stayed he'd be in the NBA.
|
|
|
Post by HometownHoya on Dec 15, 2016 10:35:27 GMT -5
So, what's everyone's opinions on Jerelle Benimon nowadays? Was JT3 limiting him? Did he learn skills while here that helped his career? Would he have been our mid-major killer? Little off base with that. He went on and showcased himself at a lower level and had a similar career to many of the recent players we tout. How is he different that Austin Freeman, PEJR, Trawick, DSR and that list could continue. D-League player trying to make the league but won't then go play overseas. I say good for him if he thought he got a better shot by being big fish in smaller pond with better coaching in college. Didn't end up any worse for that. If he'd stayed with Hoyas maybe he doesn't get that opportunity at least that was his perception. Not like if he stayed he'd be in the NBA. So we should be blaming JT3 for letting a quality player transfer away? That's what I've taken from most posts in response to Ike's decision (not necessarily you Eagle). Benimon is a great example of a player that was getting minutes, was shuffled down the depth chart, thought he could do better elsewhere, transferred and then did. Just because other players were better fits for what we were trying to do on the court at that time, does that mean JT3 failed for not giving him starter minutes? People are saying that if Ike can do better elsewhere, that should be an indictment of JT3. Are the post-transfer successes of Macklin and Benimon due to JT3 failures?
|
|
SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 19,142
|
Post by SSHoya on Dec 15, 2016 11:20:15 GMT -5
Little off base with that. He went on and showcased himself at a lower level and had a similar career to many of the recent players we tout. How is he different that Austin Freeman, PEJR, Trawick, DSR and that list could continue. D-League player trying to make the league but won't then go play overseas. I say good for him if he thought he got a better shot by being big fish in smaller pond with better coaching in college. Didn't end up any worse for that. If he'd stayed with Hoyas maybe he doesn't get that opportunity at least that was his perception. Not like if he stayed he'd be in the NBA. So we should be blaming JT3 for letting a quality player transfer away? That's what I've taken from most posts in response to Ike's decision (not necessarily you Eagle). Benimon is a great example of a player that was getting minutes, was shuffled down the depth chart, thought he could do better elsewhere, transferred and then did. Just because other players were better fits for what we were trying to do on the court at that time, does that mean JT3 failed for not giving him starter minutes? People are saying that if Ike can do better elsewhere, that should be an indictment of JT3. Are the post-transfer successes of Macklin and Benimon due to JT3 failures? IIRC, Macklin all but admitted that he didn't put in the work to become a better player. Benimon succeeded as a bigger fish in a smaller pond and good for him. But I don't think either reflects a failure on the part of III.
|
|
TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
|
Post by TBird41 on Dec 15, 2016 12:00:33 GMT -5
Ike's regression was almost entirely about losing his ability to shoot. I'm not a shot doctor or anything, but it looked mechanical, in that his shot lost that nice arc it had his freshman year, but who knows if it was mental issues leading to mechanical trouble, or some tweak he (or the coaching staff) introduced, or if he just got sloppy with his mechanics and then couldn't fix them again.
Of course, if he had kept his shot, that wouldn't have necessarily changed his lack of progress on the boards/with his handle/on defense
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2016 12:14:36 GMT -5
There are a million reasons why kids leave and a million more to account for how they play at the next stop. My significant questions are:
1) Do we have an abnormal amount of transfers? (i.e. Is our program/coach toxic?) I don't think so. As mentioned elsewhere, transfers are the norm these days.
2) Do a majority of players perform significantly better once they leave the program? (i.e. Is our program/coach holding them back?) I don't think this is true either. Some flourish (Benimon), some fail (Bolden, Nikita), and others stay the course. I don't think our team or style is a massive bottleneck to overall success.
Most Importantly (and what doesn't seem to be discussed too often) 3) Do we have highly ranked, successful players up-transfer out of the program? (i.e. Are we ever a stepping stone? Think Rodney Hood, Eric Paschall, Ryan Anderson) No. And when it starts getting to this point, we've reached the irrelevant status that some people on here hyperbolically say we're at already.
I don't get too worked up about the larger idea of "transfers". It bums me out on a personal level when a guy like Ike decides to leave, but I can rationalize it from his POV too.
I think he could have had a good season as the 4 in our lineup. He was shooting less from 3 and getting his sea legs back after playing an entire season out of position. If we had a space-eating, defensive-minded center to complement him, his own defensive lapses wouldn't have been so significant.
That said... I think Marcus can fill the same role, and I have high hopes that in 25+mpg he'll put up some nice numbers.
|
|
zxhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,718
|
Post by zxhoya on Dec 15, 2016 14:10:29 GMT -5
There are a million reasons why kids leave and a million more to account for how they play at the next stop. My significant questions are: 1) Do we have an abnormal amount of transfers? (i.e. Is our program/coach toxic?) I don't think so. As mentioned elsewhere, transfers are the norm these days. 2) Do a majority of players perform significantly better once they leave the program? (i.e. Is our program/coach holding them back?) I don't think this is true either. Some flourish (Benimon), some fail (Bolden, Nikita), and others stay the course. I don't think our team or style is a massive bottleneck to overall success. Most Importantly (and what doesn't seem to be discussed too often) 3) Do we have highly ranked, successful players up-transfer out of the program? (i.e. Are we ever a stepping stone? Think Rodney Hood, Eric Paschall, Ryan Anderson) No. And when it starts getting to this point, we've reached the irrelevant status that some people on here hyperbolically say we're at already. I don't get too worked up about the larger idea of "transfers". It bums me out on a personal level when a guy like Ike decides to leave, but I can rationalize it from his POV too. I think he could have had a good season as the 4 in our lineup. He was shooting less from 3 and getting his sea legs back after playing an entire season out of position. If we had a space-eating, defensive-minded center to complement him, his own defensive lapses wouldn't have been so significant. That said... I think Marcus can fill the same role, and I have high hopes that in 25+mpg he'll put up some nice numbers.. And I'm sure most players can see the 'competitive writing on the wall', that players they are competing with in practice are out performing them and will likely be awarded playing time ahead of them or players being recruited who play their position who could potentially take playing time from them. They say, "Game knows game" and Akoy and Derrickson seemingly were out performing Ike enough to take his minutes and thankfully the coach is going to play the players who best gives the team the best opportunity to win in a given game.
|
|
eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,471
|
Post by eagle54 on Dec 29, 2016 0:49:34 GMT -5
Our lack of recruiting needs to be called at as well as our recruiting that doesn't work.
|
|
eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,471
|
Post by eagle54 on Dec 29, 2016 1:50:31 GMT -5
What's with the anchor?
|
|
blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,808
|
Post by blueandgray on Dec 29, 2016 10:41:35 GMT -5
You need a new schtic Eagle. Never a good look when you make back to back posts and no one responds.
|
|